Otherkin

[Ashywolf]

I managed to get "dragged" into the wolf side of therianthropy even though I was trying to avoid it. There are good portions of the community (whether they still exist I don't know) who often pointed fingers at the new players who associated with wolf as such with the declaration that most "wolf people" are too blinded by popular animals to find what they actually are.

 

Needless to say, since it came to me without any apparent prior action or motive, I'm happy enough to accept it these day, and speculate with the better side of the community as to why it seems to be so "popular" to have the influence of this specific animal group.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Ashywolf

[sparkle10184]

I'm over here :V

Cockroaches (and lots of other bugs, and spiders) are timid, you know |'D

 

(really though y'alls please don't pretend we don't exist and especially please don't do it to try to discredit other otherkin's experiences that's not really cool)

I was in no way pretending you don't exist.. quite the opposite actually - I was trying to find out if you do exist! And I wasn't doing it to discredit anyone, I was asking an honest question. I think we had a slight misunderstanding

[gyiyg]

Oh okay

Sorry about that |D

(and the bit about discrediting was more because of the post above yours than anything 'cause that was mostly where I was gettin that feeling from)

Edited March 22, 2015 by Pika_Oi

[TehUltimateMage]

I find it really cool that you identify with bugs, actually. They're too underrated. ^^ I've held a fascination with insects and spiders, though my parents aren't happy when I bring them in the house. XP

[gyiyg]

They definitely are~ There were actually a couple years of my life where everybody hating bugs so much got to me and I felt like I had to hate them too and it was like I'd lost touch with a huge part of myself,,, actually regaining my interest in them was pretty much the beginning of me figuring myself out and I'm way more comfortable with myself for it |D

 

I feel close to all kinds of crawly things even ones that aren't technically insects and whatnot really

Cicadas are actually my favorite insect but as far as what I feel like I actually am I feel like I'm almost definitely closest to a cockroach c:

[rabbithaver]

!!! Bugkin are super cute oh my gosh.

 

My friend Laney (who I've mentioned before) is studying biology at the CSU campus in Aurora, and is currently working with hissing cockroaches! The only one they can tell apart from the rest is named Hissyfit, because his defining trait is that he is little assbutt. He hisses at you when you try to pick him up, and lurks on the side of his tank to scare his handlers when they open it. |D

[grimace]

If 80% of known species are anthropods, where are all the anthropod kin?

In actual numbers of animals to exist though, vertebrates would be like .000000001% or something.

Like if being an otherkin was just a weird random process by all mathematical probability there probably wouldn't have been a single mammal otherkin.

 

Although yeah it makes sense if its like the post above where people choose to indentify as whatever, but I was under the impression most otherkin believed they -were- the actual spirits or whatever of the animal, not that they just chose to identify with whatever because it they thought it was cool.

 

If its mostly the latter that explains everything though and its all good

 

(also unrelated, but to the post above, its worth noting the hisser isn't waiting there to scare people, roaches don't have the mental capacity for that. Could be a little more defensive though.)

Edited March 22, 2015 by grimace

[Kith]

There are also population theories based on various things, some of which are dependent on the "why" behind the otherkin.

 

If one were to assume a spiritual or soul connection between the person one is now and the species one identifies as, there is an element of empathy between the two. Since wolves and humans have been close for many generations (though the wolves have since become dogs), this would make a wolf "soul" translate better into a human body, and a human mind better able to understand the experiences of a wolf. Which would also explain the relative lack of arthropods and other invertebrates on the earth-animal spectrum of otherkin/therians despite the massive amount of actual ones living on the planet.

 

This also translates slightly into those kintypes that are mythical beings; those that are widespread in terms of lore and myth are more likely to find themselves ensconced in a human body, and those that are more obscure are less represented. Since the dragon mythos as a whole is pretty much global, it would be relatively easy for any of the huge variety of species to find understanding within the human mind.

 

 

Obviously this falls apart if you were to assume another "cause" behind the kintype, but it is at least one explanation. Another is that since wolves and dragons are so widely researched, it is simply the first conclusion one leaps to, and that many people move on when they discover more about themselves that would cause them to re-evaluate their identity. Perhaps for some it is a feeling of power, of safety, or of their kinself protecting their human body in some way or other, or a more religious connection (neoshamanism, etc.).

 

Since there's really no one true way to be otherkin and/or therian, there isn't really a one size fits all explanation as to the population densities, as it were.

 

Edit: Also, some source material on LiveJournal

Edited March 22, 2015 by Kith

[pinkgothic]

In actual numbers of animals to exist though, vertebrates would be like .000000001% or something.

Like if being an otherkin was just a weird random process by all mathematical probability there probably wouldn't have been a single mammal otherkin.

 

Although yeah it makes sense if its like the post above where people choose to indentify as whatever, but I was under the impression most otherkin believed they -were- the actual spirits or whatever of the animal, not that they just chose to identify with whatever because it they thought it was cool.

 

If its mostly the latter that explains everything though and its all good

It can be both; I'm in the 'think I was a different animal in a past life, but don't really both to identify with that animal' category, for example.

 

But one thing to consider is that the mammal:everything-else ratio is also to be expected if this is related to the concept of a soul - presumably, not every living creature has one of those, but only ones past a certain evolutionary point, much like very few animals possess sapience. Mind you, that's not to say mammals are the only ones that have one - I don't know where the cut-off would be and deliberately picked an arbitrary one (I am not mammalkin, just to emphasise how arbitrary the cut-off is ) - just that you'd expect more complex animals to dominate the field.

[S0ren]

If 80% of known species are anthropods, where are all the anthropod kin?

 

This is actually something I've wondered about too. I know there are bugkin out there, and I've met quite a few such as Pika_Oi. Pardon the pun though, they're really good at crawling into the woodwork and staying hidden.

 

To be perfectly honest, I'd love if I had an invertebrate kintype, and I might actually have one as a secondary type (strong affinity for moths, wasps to a lesser extent). Insectkin are awesome and I'd love to see more of them.

 

Another is that since wolves and dragons are so widely researched, it is simply the first conclusion one leaps to, and that many people move on when they discover more about themselves that would cause them to re-evaluate their identity. Perhaps for some it is a feeling of power, of safety, or of their kinself protecting their human body in some way or other, or a more religious connection (neoshamanism, etc.).

 

This is exactly why I've been uncomfortable with continuously coming back to dragon. It feels like an immature thing to keep ending up at, but I've experimented with just about every similar beast I could think of (birds, bats, gryphons, perytons, hippogryphs) and even less similar things like harpies, angels, demons, and a huge range of faerie folk (imps, goblins, trolls, orcs, fairies, elves, etc). And yet I keep ending up back at dragon with an even stronger sense of that being the right one.

 

For the time being, I've quit fighting it because it's just too exhausting and I've got bigger, real world priorities. Like transferring to my uni of choice and applying for their engineering program. Knowing me, though, I'll be back at it at some point trying to prove myself wrong.

 

It's largely because of the common idea that dragons are powerful that I'm uncomfortable with it. I'm good at taking charge when I absolutely have to and knowing when to back down when a more suitable leader shows up anyway, so why would I need to dominating kintype too? From my understanding of my particular dragon-type, though, they're a bit more on the dainty and skittish side with dull, earthy colors to blend in and hide from other animals |D

 

[Kith]

Nothing wrong with the soul-searching coming back to that, though I've seen plenty of "I wish I was something else so that people would believe me/I'd feel more comfy with it" floating around, so you aren't alone in it.

 

Since your species isn't the type to terrorize towns or eat princesses, it may be easier to be at peace with in the future, at least internally. You'll always have to explain that you aren't that kind of dragon, which might get tiresome at times, but hopefully people will understand rather quickly. Self-acceptance is the first step, and sometimes the hardest.

[Kestra15]

Two main issues I have with the concept of therians/otherkin etc. One has already been explored in this thread; the overabundance of 'cool' otherkin like wolves, while there are very few bacteriakin, viruskin, bugkin, etc. A lot of otherkin are 'cool/fun/popular' ones. But that's already been discussed.

 

My other main issue? Na'vikin. Dragonkin. Orckin. Nazgulkin. Those who claim their 'soul' is that of a purely fictional being. In particular what annoyed me was how many 'Na'vikin' I started to hear of the moment Avatar came out. How can you claim to be inheriting the soul of a purely fictional race, especially one which as so little substance and backstory? How can you be a 'dragonkin' given every culture has a different interpretation of dragons, and that there are entire subspecies of dragons in a lot of cultures/story realms.

 

I have long been nicknamed 'Cub' as in tiger-cub, because myself and others have described me as possessing some of those qualities associated with the animal. Someone told me a decade ago that they thought it was a fitting description of me because it implies that I am 'courageous but vulnerable, but for those who are loyal [to you] and protect [you], when you grow into that magnificent creature they will be blessed.' Equally my dream-self for nearly two decades has been winged. I can 'feel' the wings on my back, can 'spread' them when I feel annoyed or upset, and in my dreams I do learn to fly. If my wings are injured in my dream, the next dream I will still carry that injury and will have to relearn how to fly. These days my dream-selfs ability to fly is based solely on injury I have learned to fly and I can continue to fly. And for nearly fifteen years I have visualised myself during the day as an Akira-class starship. When I had my car accident two months ago it mentally projected as my Akira-self taking significant internal and hull damage, but my superstructure was intact and projected time to repair was six weeks. I still only have 95% of my power availability. When certain complaints were made against me last year it presented as a computer virus combined with a vicious cloaked attack that left me with 35% computer processing ability, minimal power output and significant structural damage to the starboard stardrive and nacelle. Took months to repair that damage.

 

For me, that is just imagination. That is how I perceive and understand the world. It helps me to make sense of what is happening and how significant life events. I'm not an Akira-class-starship-kin though, despite how when discussing with some otherkin I can make a much more detailed explanation of how exactly I look, act and feel like an Akira-class than they can explain why they're a wolf, dragon or Nazgul.

 

So where do I stand on otherkin? If that is how you perceive yourself and your place in the world, then cool. If that is how you process your life, life experiences and spirituality, fine. My core belief on acceptance is simply that if what you do does not bring harm to others, I will accept you for who you are. But be aware that I will continue to remain skeptical about assertions that your soul really is that of an entirely fictional being that does not exist outside imagination, and while I will try to do my best to make things comfortable for you and let you get on with your day, I personally do not believe that you possess the spirit of something fictional. I will simply believe that you possess the ability to process life experiences in a different way to me.

[Kith]

*headscratch* Not sure how an abundance of different types and species makes dragons more of an issue than other mythological beings since they're not the only ones with a wide range, but I understand the basic issues you've got with fictional/mythical kintypes.

[TehUltimateMage]

My other main issue? Na'vikin. Dragonkin. Orckin. Nazgulkin. Those who claim their 'soul' is that of a purely fictional being. In particular what annoyed me was how many 'Na'vikin' I started to hear of the moment Avatar came out. How can you claim to be inheriting the soul of a purely fictional race, especially one which as so little substance and backstory? How can you be a 'dragonkin' given every culture has a different interpretation of dragons, and that there are entire subspecies of dragons in a lot of cultures/story realms.

I was afraid to bring this up because Oddinomaly might get all defensive again. I am so sorry. Like I said, I don't really believe in the spiritual side and so from an outside perspective, it doesn't make sense for someone to claim they have a the 'soul' of a machine, a fictional character or race, or a mythological creature (who are in essence fictional because their mythos was created by people, albeit a long time ago; though most elves I see are Tolkien Elves etc.), and even to an extent hybrids and multiple souls. It makes even less sense if you claim your 'past lives' were fictional or machines, or that you 'remember' doing repetitive work as a factory arm before your manufacturing plant got torn down.

 

I'm not trying to invalidate other people's experiences; I'm trying to see what's going on from a more scientific and humanistic view. Humans have a tendency to project human qualities on everything they see to better understand the world, and imagination plays a big part in it. Imagination allows us to see possibilities, from 'what might happen if I say this' to 'how will the planet suffer if gravity were suddenly shut off' to 'how does it feel like to not be human' -- what if I was a tree, my arms growing and branching, the warmth of the sun caressing the leaves at the tips of my fingers while my toes grip the cool earth; children, two of them, might hand a swing off me and I would watch them scream and play. If we consider otherkin as people who are particularly good at imagining themselves as something else to the point where they feel a personal connection with the object, animal, or being in question, it all clicks nicely into place.

 

My favorite example of people empathizing with objects are the people in the Mars Rover teams (specifically, the team behind Spirit and Opportunity). They shared an empathic, almost spiritual bond with the bot they were maneuvering, stronger than a parent-child bond. They imagined themselves as the Rover, imagined how it might feel out there, trying to figure out how it really sees the world through it's 'eyes' and how it might move around on its treads. Everyone cried when Spirit got stuck and sent her last communication. I believe they even held a funeral.

 

Why do we read books and watch movies and shows? Good media have relatable characters, and provide an outlet to a world that is not ours. My theory is that fictiontypes latch on to characters and character archetypes they feel they particularly relate with and expand that thought by trying to imagine how they might feel in different situations, or how they might have felt in their pasts.

 

(P.S. Yang is a great character. :0 )

Edited March 22, 2015 by TehUltimateMage

[S0ren]

How can you claim to be inheriting the soul of a purely fictional race, especially one which as so little substance and backstory? How can you be a 'dragonkin' given every culture has a different interpretation of dragons, and that there are entire subspecies of dragons in a lot of cultures/story realms.

Well, personally, I subscribe to the Multiverse theory, and it can be taken as "everything is real or has happened somewhere". Just because it's fictional in our universe doesn't mean it is in another. But I know this doesn't work for everybody and even my stance here is highly debatable. Heck, I still question it and am somewhat skeptical of it.

 

I'm trying to see what's going on from a more scientific and humanistic view. Humans have a tendency to project human qualities on everything they see to better understand the world, and imagination plays a big part in it.

There's a couple non-spiritual views I've seen floating around, actually. One of the main ones I've heard about is a psychological self-defense mechanism. This may or may not have to do with trauma on the part of the individual, but in essence, their identity takes on that form in order to help them feel safer, to give them something solid to believe in while otherwise having an identity crisis.

 

I've also seen it as a mental illness coping mechanism for much the same reasons, in which case, many have brought it up with their mental health team to see whether it was beneficial or harmful. Most cases I've heard of the therapists have said it was harmless or beneficial, but I have seen negative cases.

[Kith]

There's also the archetype explanation, which uses (I believe) Jungian psychological theory to propose that people are tapping into and/or internalizing an archetype, and the kintype is the particular form that the person gives to it to understand it better.

 

Also there's the people who believe that their kintype is the internally understood form given to their more primitive instincts and desires, a sort of personification of what people usually refer to as the "hindbrain" or "lizard brain." The thoughts and behaviors that people still have, but associate more with animals than humans.

 

Still others have experiences similar to Kestra's, but instead of labeling these things as imagination, the forms become part of the person's identity. So not necessarily a coping mechanism or an escape, but a lens through which one understands and processes the world and their own experiences.

[kitsune93]

Genuine Question:

Are there any simple animal otherkin?

Like sponges or corals or jellyfish kin?

I mean, if there are plantkin there much surely be jellyfishkin too but I've never seen any.

[High Lord November]

There's a couple non-spiritual views I've seen floating around, actually. One of the main ones I've heard about is a psychological self-defense mechanism. This may or may not have to do with trauma on the part of the individual, but in essence, their identity takes on that form in order to help them feel safer, to give them something solid to believe in while otherwise having an identity crisis.

 

I've also seen it as a mental illness coping mechanism for much the same reasons, in which case, many have brought it up with their mental health team to see whether it was beneficial or harmful. Most cases I've heard of the therapists have said it was harmless or beneficial, but I have seen negative cases.

It could also just be because you have an active imagination. I know for me, I've always been obsessed with flying and always imagined what it was like to have wings and how it would be to fly. I also loved the animorphs and really wanted to be a bird and transform into different animals. I still like to look at a lamp post or something and imagine what it would be like to fly up there. It's really fun and satisfies that need to experience something else. I just wouldn't define it as me sharing an actual spirit or soul with something with wings, just something personal that adds a little bit of magic and fun to my day.

Edited March 22, 2015 by High Lord November

[Kith]

Genuine Question:

Are there any simple animal otherkin?

Like sponges or corals or jellyfish kin?

I mean, if there are plantkin there much surely be jellyfishkin too but I've never seen any.

I won't say they don't exist, but the simplest animal form I've personally seen mentioned was a nudibranch.

[S0ren]

Genuine Question:

Are there any simple animal otherkin?

Like sponges or corals or jellyfish kin?

I mean, if there are plantkin there much surely be jellyfishkin too but I've never seen any.

I do think I actually briefly ran into an algaekin once. They got a lot of hate though so they disappeared pretty quickly.

 

It could also just be because you have an active imagination. I know for me, I've always been obsessed with flying and always imagined what it was like to have wings and how it would be to fly. I also loved the animorphs and really wanted to be a bird and transform into different animals. I still like to look at a lamp post or something and imagine what it would be like to fly up there. It's really fun and satisfies that need to experience something else. I just wouldn't define it as me sharing an actual spirit or soul with something with wings, just something personal that adds a little bit of magic and fun to my day.

And I'm definitely not above considering that as a possibility. I guess it just seems like it's deeper than that a lot of the time, especially since it feels like I'm actually imagining it when I'm imagining myself as other things. Like imagining what it would be like to be a gazelle running through the savannah or how it would feel to be one of my pet rats and how the world must look to them. It's still definitely a possibility, of course, regardless of how real it feels.

[kitsune93]

I do think I actually briefly ran into an algaekin once. They got a lot of hate though so they disappeared pretty quickly.

Do you remember if they identified as a specific kind of algae or just algae in general?

 

On a slightly related note, have you ever met any funguskin or bacteriakin?

 

Honestly I only ever seem to see kin of wolves or dragons or other cute/cool animals.

It's interesting to hear about people who identify as things that society doesn't have preconceived notions about.

[S0ren]

Do you remember if they identified as a specific kind of algae or just algae in general?

I don't remember the exact species, but it was in the blue-green family, I think.

 

On a slightly related note, have you ever met any funguskin or bacteriakin?

I don't recall any specific bacteriakin, but I did meet a Spanish Moss Otherkin before, and I think a Phallus indusiatus (lace mushroom) mushroomkin, but I had a falling out with both of them several years ago and have not had contact since.

[TehUltimateMage]

A lot of simple animals (and fish, admittedly) we still don't know much about and whose existence aren't common knowledge. Can't really identify with something you just don't know. I haven't met any protozoa-kin, but then again, I'm not in the Otherkin community.

 

I also loved the animorphs and really wanted to be a bird and transform into different animals.

 

A+ animorphs is the best. Probably the #1 thing that captured my childhood imagination.

[Rosedamai]

I've also seen it as a mental illness coping mechanism for much the same reasons, in which case, many have brought it up with their mental health team to see whether it was beneficial or harmful. Most cases I've heard of the therapists have said it was harmless or beneficial, but I have seen negative cases.

Honestly, this really depends on the person. For me it doesn't work at all because my paranoid schizophrenia would latch onto me imagining myself as whatever animal I am and I might run into huge negative consequences because of this

 

I hate it when people say it's a "mental illness coping mechanism". For some people, yes. For some people, it's not healthy for them. For some people, they might not need it at all. It's not a mechanism that suits everyone.

 

I agree with High Lord November

It could also just be because you have an active imagination. I know for me, I've always been obsessed with flying and always imagined what it was like to have wings and how it would be to fly. I also loved the animorphs and really wanted to be a bird and transform into different animals. I still like to look at a lamp post or something and imagine what it would be like to fly up there. It's really fun and satisfies that need to experience something else. I just wouldn't define it as me sharing an actual spirit or soul with something with wings, just something personal that adds a little bit of magic and fun to my day.

[Cori]

I have very little, if any, support for otherkin. Especially fictive-type otherkin. I don't believe it's a spiritual or psychological thing at all--to me it's just people trying to hide behind something they THINK is more interesting than their real selves.

 

What's interesting to me is how otherkin like to pick and choose which aspect of their animal self they want to display. They tend to conveniently forget about the instincts and behaviors that are viewed negatively by human society. It's all cute or stereotypical behavior, like wolfkin howling at the moon because that's what they think real wolves do, or horsekin stamping their feet when they get nervous. Or they go for the cool and edgy behavior instead, like wanting to eat raw meat and kill things because they're TOUGH. They always kind of edge around the really gross parts of what animals do.

 

 

I don't think this is a healthy coping mechanism at all.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Jackal