Otherkin

[Kestra15]

...you'll notice my original post wasn't about you, but about quantum mechanics

[Faith_the_vampire_slayer]

...you'll notice my original post wasn't about you, but about quantum mechanics

Oh really? Note the second sentence. You used me as an example. If you had been simply responding to a post on quantum physics, you would have used a theoretical example, or prefaced 'not an excuse to think you're Peter Capaldi' with 'not, for example, an excuse to think you're Peter Capaldi'.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/585c4008bb15c73...43izo1_1280.png ~Linked for size~

Edited September 11, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Gsea]

...you'll notice my original post wasn't about you, but about quantum mechanics

Oh really? Note the second sentence. You used me as an example. If you had been simply responding to a post on quantum physics, you would have used a theoretical example, or prefaced 'not an excuse to think you're Peter Capaldi' with 'not, for example, an excuse to think you're Peter Capaldi'.

Well, yeah, exactly. He used you as an example. Why use a theoretical example when there's one right here in this thread? Especially if it was the very example that prompted him to make that post.

 

I do not believe he is attacking you, I do believe he is discussing it constructively, as he has continued to elaborate and explain his meaning in a perfectly rational way, and I don't really think he is "belittling an entire group of people" by explaining his perception of the distinction between fiction and reality, soul and soulless, etc..

 

Alsooo, I'm not so sure you can just tell him to essentially leave the thread and take his opinions elsewhere.

 

I'm not necessarily defending him, nor am I attacking you, but when an argument disintegrates into arguing about arguing (for example, your last post, the one I quoted, was literally just about syntax), then I feel the desire to step in. Big fan of discussion. Big fan of well-written arguments. Big fan of the mechanics of writing.

Edited September 10, 2015 by glamoursea2

[Faith_the_vampire_slayer]

He used you as an example. Why use a theoretical example when there's one right here in this thread? Especially if it was the very example that prompted him to make that post.

Why would one use a theoretical example? Because using someone in the actual thread, especially when you describe the group they are a part of as 'pretty grim and rather demon-esque', has the potential to offend them, as happened here. In any case, I will concede that I overreacted a little. But still, you can't deny that some of the language he used was anything but 'perfectly rational', as I just demonstrated. There was no reason for him to call fictionkin some of the things he did.

 

In any case, the argument has wound down now. It's over. On my end, at least. I can't speak for Kestra.

[Umbee]

For me, fictionkin is purely a psychological thing. I don't believe fiction is real in some other universe, and I'm not even totally sure I believe in souls. What I do believe is that this character is so much like me, sometimes in almost eerie ways, that we might as well have some sort of connection if such a thing existed. And I use this connection to cope with my mental illnesses and such.

[TehUltimateMage]

@Indigo: That was an amazing post! Kind of makes me want to go skydiving at some point in my life, just to feel the dampness of the air and the smell which I assume is similar to the aftermath of a spring thunderstorm.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not very open about being fictionkin because we get a lot of hate, even within the larger 'kin community.

I'm not very open about my opinions on otherkin for a similar reason. Many otherkin I've interacted with have responded negatively when a "hater" voices their thoughts even in a civil way. Maybe it's to be expected, but since this is a discussion topic... Keep in mind that while it might sound like I'm devaluing your experiences, I just want to get in a frank few paragraphs for those who want to see a few more sides to the argument.

 

~~~

 

I wouldn't call it hate. I don't want to eradicate all fictionkin. If you connect with a character on a mental, spiritual, and emotional level, then cool. It's great. Though the concept of claiming you are the character sometimes, makes me bite my tongue. I've experienced times where I was close to video game characters -- even sometimes imagining myself doing battle in their stead with their weapon in hand or other things like empathizing with their emotional turmoil -- but at the end of the day I don't consider myself fictionkin. Why?

 

Characters from any media are designed to be emotionally appealing. If it doesn't connect with anyone, then it doesn't sell (y'all hate cardboard-cutout mary sue characters, right? You can't empathize with that). Fiction writers write from their own experiences and we as readers assimilate those experiences as if they were real (if the experiences are well communicated through setting/plot, characters, prose, etc). From ancient times we have had stories -- some of people larger than life taking a fall from their human faults, others of normal people going through intensely human struggles -- that have developed from and shaped all of our cultures and helped us to explain phenomena, interact with the people around us, and survive through times of hardship.

 

While we might not need literature to encourage us to live another day as we march through the desert anymore, the emotional connection still remains. We love books (and other media) because its purpose is to put us in another's shoes. What kid hasn't felt pathos towards how Harry Potter is treated by the Dursleys and identified with injustices done towards them, hoping for a magical escape? A kid who feels neglected by his family might identify with Tobias from Animorphs and wish he could just fly free and live as a red tailed hawk. The lead in romance novels often carries traits that the reader might have so they can put themselves in the character's shoes as they are whisked off on a journey of love.

 

Point is, again, that the otherkin feeling isn't all that special. It's what stories are supposed to do, and that's all that there is to it.

[Indigo_Dragon]

@Indigo: That was an amazing post! Kind of makes me want to go skydiving at some point in my life, just to feel the dampness of the air and the smell which I assume is similar to the aftermath of a spring thunderstorm.

Thank you! I'm glad that my talking a lot about my sky diving experience wasn't all for naught. I've smelled the aftermath of a spring thunderstorm and if you take out anything soil or plant-based in the scent then it can have a bit of similarities. Still the petrichor of the wet soil and damp pant life after a thunderstorm is very intense and makes it its own thing. Not anything like the comparatively lighter, "clean" kind of smell of the sky. I would say clean pure water like a spring minus the mineral or plant smells, would be a bit closer. (Yes I am the person that says water has a smell, and different brands and kinds of water have very distinctive tastes to me. Even the different compositions of certain kind of minerals in different proportions radically change the over-all taste of the water for me. It's weird...)

 

So I know every sky dive experience is gonna be different for every person. Too many people seem to know only about the adrenaline rush of the experience, and the more spiritual (like I had) experiences are not really talked about or as well known. Really its up to you what you take from it and how it impacts you.

 

Though all the discussion/arguement about the fictionkin here makes me wanna shut up and stay clean out of it. I do support the fictionkin btw, for reasons I already mentioned, but aside from that I'll say nothing. o-o *disappears again into the shadows*

~Indigo

[TehUltimateMage]

Water absolutely has a taste (at least, to me too). Depends where it comes from and the minor minerals that are in it. I really like hearing about your experience, honest. I still don't know how I feel about heights, but I'd probably give it a try since you're strapped in with someone who actually knows what to do.

 

(Though, in all honesty, I'd be some sort of terrestrial animal. Birds are cool and all, but they're not for me. I have felt wings before when I was in Sunday school, but I think that's more of an after effect of playing too much Tales of Symphonia combined with boredom than an actual spiritual connection lol)

Edited September 11, 2015 by TehUltimateMage

[Corzer]

Is this still open for discussion of Otherkin? I kinda walked in on what looks like a kinda side conversation.

[Umbee]

That's cool, I can respect your views especially since you stated them respectfully. And I can absolutely see where you're coming from, I used to feel the same way.

[Indigo_Dragon]

Water absolutely has a taste (at least, to me too). Depends where it comes from and the minor minerals that are in it. I really like hearing about your experience, honest. I still don't know how I feel about heights, but I'd probably give it a try since you're strapped in with someone who actually knows what to do.

 

(Though, in all honesty, I'd be some sort of terrestrial animal. Birds are cool and all, but they're not for me. I have felt wings before when I was in Sunday school, but I think that's more of an after effect of playing too much Tales of Symphonia combined with boredom than an actual spiritual connection lol)

That's wonderful to hear after all my family and friends saying that water has no taste so what the heck are you talking about? -p- *high fives you* Finally, someone else who can get it.

 

For any beginner I THOROUGHLY recommend tandem jumps. They're trained and extremely experienced professionals, and often have taken on other students before you, so they know what to do. You get a training video and someone to talk you through it before the jump, and then when you're called up, you meet your instructor and they walk you through what you're going to do. You can often request things like a certain way to jump out of the plane.

 

I've tried backwards, forwards, and a summersault. Each time was different because it was with a different instructor! Tbh for my fear of heights, the straight out forward jump was better curiously. Less fear of the great unknown when you see what you're doing and less disorientation like the summersault gives you. Back towards the opening just kept me in a state of heightened anxiety about what's going on, when we're going to move, what the HECK is HAPPENING - because I'm hard of hearing I get more paranoid about things I can't see. It's my link to the world when my cochlear implants are completely off and I have no hearing.

 

Also you can request to be able to direct the gliding part with your instructor's help. My tip - do LOTS of pushups the week leading up to this to get your upper body muscles GOOD and strong. The cords will try to rip themselves out of your hands if you're not prepared [like I was] and you will get a good work out just by doing this I promise you. There's two sets of the handholds so your instructor is the one ultimately turning you guys but you can at least feel like you're helping instead of just a limply hanging passenger.

 

Also I notice that harnessing for guys and girls are rather different. You have way more risk of having the straps too tight around your hipbones and between your thighs if you're a girl, as well as under your breasts in a very constrictive way. Guys curiously have loose straps along their chests and have a gap between the two thigh straps for their private bits. The fun of being a transman means that the last time I did this, I was taken as a cisman and given the guy harness treatment compared to the girl. Trust me, SPEAK UP if the thigh straps hurt. It is NOT WORTH IT to have it be so tight because it will cut into your leg circulation and make it difficult to walk and your legs numb at the jolting upward pull that happens during the transition of the parachute opening. It's not worth it, so please speak up! I made sure to do that last time so I was able to get looser straps which worked better for me. My friend had tight ones and it really hurt her after it.

 

Sorry about all the tandem jump monologue. It's really quite fun and a lot better for the nerves to do it with someone who's experienced and to work together with them.

 

That's still cool all the same man! I know someone who deeply identifies with aquatic creatures and is too terrified of heights and falling to ever do a skydive like I did. I'm too much of a bird or flying creature [like dragon, angel, or something else] at heart to willingly give up the sky like that. So skydiving is my connection to my home, the Sky World. But everybody's different! <3

 

I'd love to hear more about other people's otherkin experiences.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Sapphira_Majoram

[TehUltimateMage]

That's cool, I can respect your views especially since you stated them respectfully. And I can absolutely see where you're coming from, I used to feel the same way.

You used to feel the same way? What experiences, if any, made you change your mind? I'm a very curious person and I love to hear about other people <3

[Omega Entity]

That's wonderful to hear after all my family and friends saying that water has no taste so what the heck are you talking about? -p- *high fives you* Finally, someone else who can get it.

I also can tell the difference between different types of water. I can really only enjoy purified water - it has this weird, almost-a-tang flavor to it. Spring water and most tap water just doesn't taste good to me.

[Indigo_Dragon]

I also can tell the difference between different types of water. I can really only enjoy purified water - it has this weird, almost-a-tang flavor to it. Spring water and most tap water just doesn't taste good to me.

I like spring water because of all the minerals in it. It's almost like mountain water. Tap water tastes horribly slimy and there's some brands that actually do bottle tap water. I knew that long before I read the confirmation online because they shared the same sliminess of tap water. I've not really had purified water I don't think? Unless it was the odd utterly tasteless thin and limpid kind that is not as fulfilling as mineral or spring water is for me.

 

But hey! All types of things for all types of people! <3

[Obscure_Trash]

I wouldn't call it hate. I don't want to eradicate all fictionkin. If you connect with a character on a mental, spiritual, and emotional level, then cool. It's great. Though the concept of claiming you are the character sometimes, makes me bite my tongue. I've experienced times where I was close to video game characters -- even sometimes imagining myself doing battle in their stead with their weapon in hand or other things like empathizing with their emotional turmoil -- but at the end of the day I don't consider myself fictionkin. Why?

 

Characters from any media are designed to be emotionally appealing. If it doesn't connect with anyone, then it doesn't sell (y'all hate cardboard-cutout mary sue characters, right? You can't empathize with that). Fiction writers write from their own experiences and we as readers assimilate those experiences as if they were real (if the experiences are well communicated through setting/plot, characters, prose, etc). From ancient times we have had stories -- some of people larger than life taking a fall from their human faults, others of normal people going through intensely human struggles -- that have developed from and shaped all of our cultures and helped us to explain phenomena, interact with the people around us, and survive through times of hardship.

 

While we might not need literature to encourage us to live another day as we march through the desert anymore, the emotional connection still remains. We love books (and other media) because its purpose is to put us in another's shoes. What kid hasn't felt pathos towards how Harry Potter is treated by the Dursleys and identified with injustices done towards them, hoping for a magical escape? A kid who feels neglected by his family might identify with Tobias from Animorphs and wish he could just fly free and live as a red tailed hawk. The lead in romance novels often carries traits that the reader might have so they can put themselves in the character's shoes as they are whisked off on a journey of love.

 

Point is, again, that the otherkin feeling isn't all that special. It's what stories are supposed to do, and that's all that there is to it.

Bolded your summary point because, honestly, I don't know about that.

 

I have immensely liked characters from shows. I have been able to step inside their thinking due to great writing, but I have never, ever felt like I was one of these characters. I have never connected with a character and gone "that's me!". Not even little parts of characters. I like them, I can get emotional over them, but I've never felt connected with them. I have used their actions to inspire my own and to fix issues in my life when I see the mistakes they make that I don't want to make. But I've never felt close to a fictional character.

 

I still take these stories in, I still get excited and agonized and angry over them, but I don't make an emotional connection with them.

 

I think it's probably just one of those things you can't understand if you don't identify that way, and it can be hard to tell how it's even a thing if you do make a more emotional connection than I do but don't identify as fictionkin. It's puts you in kind of the middle, which I've found is a hard place to relate to others from sometimes because you're so close to how they feel but when you don't feel that way, it's weird and confusing like it shouldn't exist.

 

That last part got ramble-y, but yeah. xP

[TehUltimateMage]

That's a valid point, Sock. People have varying degrees of emotional (and mental, and spiritual) involvement, and it's just as fine if you haven't experienced it. I get the sense from your post that you get much more involved with the plot and setting than the character themselves and that's also wonderful. We studied some of the theories behind stories and yes! Applying those life lessons into your own life is how we go (I do that too)

 

I want to say that I'm an objective viewer with one foot in each realm, though everything we're talking about is pretty much all subjective.

[Umbee]

Sock pretty much explained what I was gonna say! I just started feeling that level of identification, and it was something entirely unlike how I'd ever related to a character before.

[Indigo_Dragon]

Thank you for explaining it in that way Sock! It makes a lot more sense! I came close with Yuki a character in "The Betrayal Knows My Name" manga series but even then I had to admit that if there was truly any similarity, is that I had a past life like him (Note: Not AS him. LIKE him, as in similar TO him.) and several other characters reminded me of some people I know.

 

Yet at the most all those characters did was help me understand the thinking and feeling behind the previously baffling actions and words that I, and those people I know would and have done. It's actually helped me and my SO in terms of understanding why he and I act the way we do and explaining it better to the other.

 

Even then I don't think I'd have a deeper connection than that myself but I certainty will not go off that and claim that "no one can!" just because I never experienced it myself. I've seen far too many people fall into that trap and do a lot of harm towards other people because they refused to try to look outside of their own narrow reality to see other people's realities.

 

Hey this Universe is more than big enough for all of us, and there's ample stuff you can use as "evidence" to back of literally every single belief system out there. (I am not joking. You can try an experiment of "trying on" a belief for a week and just consciously paying attention to anything that would support that belief and anything that would undermine it. You'd be pretty surprised!) So if the Universe is big enough for all of us, and if there can be that much stuff in the world to justify any belief system, what really makes one person's individual reality any better or "more right" than another's? *shrugs*

 

All I can do is just decide what I believe in, what feels right to me, what fits with my reality and life experiences, and what is backed up by what I've noticed again and again so far, and most importantly, what makes me feel better, more able to engage with the world in healthy and helpful ways, and not harm me or others if at all possible?

[High Lord November]

And I use this connection to cope with my mental illnesses and such.

 

Do you mind explaining how you use it to cope or how it's helpful? I'm curious.

 

On the general subject I'd say that although I've also had times, especially and constantly as a kid (and still do), where I've imagined and felt like I had wings, tail, I'd walk around and imagine how it'd swish around and what it would be like to soar and adjust wing muscles and feel the wind in my feathers or scales and constantly daydream about flying and desperately want to fly and try to cram into the car with imagining wings and all that stuff, I would just put that down to a love of flying and birds and dragons and an active imagination. I see no reason for myself to believe that I'm literally spiritually connected to a bird or dragon, it's just something that is fun to speculate about and makes sense because I would read and imagine a lot as a child. So the otherkin thing to me seems to come down to if you believe in souls and alternate universes and people being connected to these weird beings or not, since the experience itself doesn't indicate anything. Or if you want to have fun with it I guess.

 

 

 

(I am not joking. You can try an experiment of "trying on" a belief for a week and just consciously paying attention to anything that would support that belief and anything that would undermine it. You'd be pretty surprised!)

 

Can you highlight the point you're trying to make here? This would be the confirmation bias system, would it not?

Edited September 11, 2015 by High Lord November

[Lady Artemis]

Do you mind explaining how you use it to cope or how it's helpful? I'm curious.

(I apologize if this doesn't make sense, I'm not very good at explaining myself)

For me, it's comforting to know that there are characters out there that have experienced the same illnesses/abuse that I myself have gone through. The connection helps me feel like I can recover and carry on with my life, like the character did. It's comforting to know that they have gone through what I have and survived.

[Umbee]

(I apologize if this doesn't make sense, I'm not very good at explaining myself)

For me, it's comforting to know that there are characters out there that have experienced the same illnesses/abuse that I myself have gone through. The connection helps me feel like I can recover and carry on with my life, like the character did. It's comforting to know that they have gone through what I have and survived.

This, essentially.

[High Lord November]

(I apologize if this doesn't make sense, I'm not very good at explaining myself)

For me, it's comforting to know that there are characters out there that have experienced the same illnesses/abuse that I myself have gone through. The connection helps me feel like I can recover and carry on with my life, like the character did. It's comforting to know that they have gone through what I have and survived.

And that makes the fact that you feel bound to said character more helpful and comforting? That makes sense. Does this apply to people who aren't bound to characters? I guess it would be a form of escapism, is that the sense of it?

[Faith_the_vampire_slayer]

And that makes the fact that you feel bound to said character more helpful and comforting? That makes sense. Does this apply to people who aren't bound to characters? I guess it would be a form of escapism, is that the sense of it?

A form of escapism? Not really for me. But then, I don't use my fictiontypes to help me cope with any mental illnesses. I'm not saying that coping!kin aren't equally as valid, because they are, I'm just saying that that's not the way I experience it.

 

You may find a lot of the stuff I posted during the argument with Kestra15 to be helpful in explaining how fictionkin things work for me. But TL;DR is basically that the Doctor is a part of me, psychologically speaking. For example, the way my brain works (my thought processes) is INFP, the same as the Ninth doctor. But I identify as both him and the Twelfth.

[Lady_Lunevis]

hello i am jumping in here to add my two cents bc i have been waiting for fictionkin to come up as a topic and i. clenches fist

 

i agree mostly with umbree on this matter; i haven't thought much on fiction being real and i don't really believe in the concept of souls (no offense to anyone who does, however; i understand this is all very spiritual and imo people are free to believe what they want as long as they're not harming themselves/others).

for me, i don't believe that i am actually said character. if we're talking past lives and reincarnation as i've bumped into a couple fictionkin over time who have believed that they were said character in a past life, that's a kind of grey area for me.

imo, it's hard to explain fictionkin to someone who doesn't identify with. i agree w/ lady_artemis; using fictionkin to help cope with mental illness is a huge part for me, and there's a difference between connecting/sympathizing with a character and being kin. i sympathize with theon from game of thrones, but i don''t consider myself theonkin. (poor child tho that is a discussion for another day)

for me, fictionkin brings a sense of nostalgia. there's a warm feeling as if you've been here before, as if the character's actions/words bring something back. it's not anything huge nor immediately colliding into you, but rather a warm breeze. forgive me for being poetic here, but for me being fictionkin is simply a small whisper of something that goes 'doesn't this seem familiar?', and a sense of peace.

and imo, fictionkin character =/= character you greatly like. i'm not saying you hate the characters you are kin with, only that sometimes you can love a character so much and build a shrine to them (no i don't have a nutcracker shrine in my room hush hush) but you simply aren't kin. it's not something you force, just something that comes in whichever form and you ??? kind of just ?? understand ???

 

idk this is just my opinion pls do not chase me out with flaming forks retreats to pluto

i also agree w/ indigo that if no one is hurting themselves/anyone else they are free to kin all they want if it helps them function normally!!!

[Faith_the_vampire_slayer]

and imo, fictionkin character =/= character you greatly like.

Good point. That's not the defining factor of being kin. You can like your kintype, but it's something more, whether you're psychologically kin, coping!kin in some way or another, or spiritual.