Otherkin

[Kestra15]

I don't think this is a healthy coping mechanism at all.

I would argue that it can be a healthy coping mechanism, if it helps someone internalise and accept what is happening to them and giving them a way of processing it, but it depends on where the line is drawn between internal coping mechanism and external behaviour. Everyone has a different method of coping; some look to religion and faith, some look to science and logic, some keep grounded in friends and family, others rely on themselves and their experiences. Every coping mechanism can be healthy if applied properly, but become unhealthy (normally if taken to extremes or considered in solitude).

 

If members of the otherkin community can draw support and strength from the friendships they find in one another (external locii) as well as find a grounding and spirituality within themselves (internal locii) then it can be a positive experience. Finding acceptance for who and what they are, friendship and guidance in others, a place of safety to discuss experiences and emotions, and a forum in which they can work through their ideas, concerns and expectations, then that sounds like a rather healthy support structure. But it's like any support structure; it can be unhealthy in extremis. If there are bad role models, or if the person perceives and experiences that group from an unbalanced or unhealthy perspective; if there is an emphasis on only one aspect of the community that precludes or ignores others; if the community itself exhibits a negative culture; etc. Any community, any culture or subculture, any coping mechanism, any aspect of expressing spirituality/individuality/personality can be unhealthy and detrimental. otherkin are no different.

 

(Replace 'otherkin' with any other religious, spiritual or cultural group that you personally belong to in that paragraph above, and hey presto! I'm talking about you too, reader.)

 

I agree with you Jackal that there does feel like a lot of 'pick and choose,' and let's be honest there is a lot of that in my own life too. When referred to as 'Cub' friends were picking the aspects and traits of a tiger-cub that they perceived as positives and cultural norms. It was never mentioned by others that a white tiger is a genetic abnormality caused by inbreeding, implying that I was somehow mentally subnormal, physically handicapped and from a very unhealthy set of parents. The comparison to how male Amur tigers were very solitary was a reference to my introvertive mannerisms during my latter youth, but was wholly inaccurate when you consider the actual behaviour of Amurs compared to myself. Ironically while Amur tigers spend most of their time asleep, I've been suffering with insomnia most my life and definitely do not spend much time abed. I enjoy a meat-filled diet, but I do enjoy meals that have more than just medium-rare steaks. Amurs are supposedly quiet creatures and I'm one of the most talkative people around. And tigers are not able to purr.

 

But that's the point of 'Cub' being an affectionate nickname which I would play up to; it's a nickname. An endearing comparison to a romanticized perception of a rather specific animal which is rarely seen, let alone has traits specific to it and it alone which I embraced and endorsed. But it was a name I would refer to myself as internally from time to time and a mental image/projection that I could draw strength on, especially during my Everest expedition. I wouldn't say I was 'otherkin' but it was a coping mechanism of a sort, and it worked rather well for me I think. It got me through the first ten years of adulthood, so that I'm now just shy of starting as an emergency care registered nurse, have a supportive relationship, and some fantastic life experiences to look back on.

 

So in moderation, I can't see why a mental projection of an animal-like aspect of yourself is unhealthy in moderation and with realistic reference points. At the end of the day though it is imagination. I'm a human in body and spirit.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Kestra15

[gyiyg]

Okay, if you don't believe in spiritual whatnot then fine sure that's fair just be respectful of others

But you can't really say whether something is psychological or not without experiencing it yourself?

Personally while there are some spiritual parts involved with me most of the more solid parts of my identity as otherkin formed when I was having emotional crises about being a bad wrong human because the way I function and think and act is so different from literally everyone I've ever met, until I settled on that I must just really not be meant to be human which made me feel more comfortable with pretty much literally everything about myself

I don't really care whether anyone thinks the way I am is healthy or not, or if it's silly, or if I shouldn't be like this, or whatever

I'm not this way for you or anybody else but me and it's not for you to decide c':

 

(Also I am well aware that I am physically human and if I tried to subsist on dead leaves and rotting food or somethin I'd probably get really sick, like really, are you trying to kill me? What do you want? |D)

Edited March 23, 2015 by Pika_Oi

[High Lord November]

Okay, if you don't believe in spiritual whatnot then fine sure that's fair just be respectful of others

But you can't really say whether something is psychological or not without experiencing it yourself?

Personally while there are some spiritual parts involved with me most of the more solid parts of my identity as otherkin formed when I was having emotional crises about being a bad wrong human because the way I function and think and act is so different from literally everyone I've ever met, until I settled on that I must just really not be meant to be human which made me feel more comfortable with pretty much literally everything about myself

I don't really care whether anyone thinks the way I am is healthy or not, or if it's silly, or if I shouldn't be like this, or whatever

I'm not this way for you or anybody else but me and it's not for you to decide c':

 

(Also I am well aware that I am physically human and if I tried to subsist on dead leaves and rotting food or somethin I'd probably get really sick, like really, are you trying to kill me? What do you want? |D)

What else is it supposed to be if not psychological?

 

It's good that that's a mechanism that works for you. I'm going to say that I don't think you act different from everyone, though. The world is such a big place, and there are many different aspects to the human condition that aren't always visible or might be in groups of people you haven't had the chance to interact with. I'm curious, what makes you so different from others, or what makes you feel so different?

Edited March 23, 2015 by High Lord November

[gyiyg]

That was in response to somebody putting forth that they don't think it is or can be psychological which didn't make sense to me at all |D

 

I don't know, I've just always felt way different from everyone

My behavior and functioning has always been way different from everyone around me, my feelings on things are always way different, and I've pretty much always been alienated for it I guess

 

(I'm autistic if that means anything here I guess)

Edited April 3, 2015 by Pika_Oi

[Kestra15]

But you can't really say whether something is psychological or not without experiencing it yourself?

Because it is a psychological and spiritual phenomena, not a physical one. You are not physically an animal, you think/feel that you are one. Ergo it is psychological not physiological. The argument that you have to 'experience' it lends to it being a psychological phenomena.

 

And no, mental health issues do not alter my belief; whether an otherkin has one or not does not change how I feel.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Kestra15

[gyiyg]

Because it is a psychological and spiritual phenomena, not a physical one. You are not physically an animal, you think/feel that you are one. Ergo it is psychological not physiological. The argument that you have to 'experience' it lends to it being a psychological phenomena.

 

That was in response to somebody putting forth that they don't think it is or can be psychological which didn't make sense to me at all |D

 

I,,, wasn't trying to argue that it it's physiological :V

 

(Also my mentioning my neurotype was in reference to how I felt like I'm different from everybody around me because I was asked about that?)

Edited March 24, 2015 by Pika_Oi

[Nerei]

I've never understood how people can feel sure that they are spiritually another creature. Personally, I have no memories of ever being something other than human, so I wonder how someone can claim to know how a non-sentient animal would behave or feel. Maybe the way you think and process things is just human?

[Kestra15]

Sorry, when I say 'argument' I don't mean it in a combative sense but more in that you take a different stance in a debate to me So please don't take it to mean I thought you were aggressively arguing with me.

 

(As a matter of interest I just did a literature search for 'otherkin,' 'therian' and 'therianthropy' on the journals, and barely got any hits.)

[High Lord November]

That was in response to somebody putting forth that they don't think it is or can be psychological which didn't make sense to me at all |D

 

I don't know, I've just always felt way different from everyone

My behavior and functioning has always been way different from everyone around me, my feelings on things are always way different, and I've pretty much always been alienated for it I guess

 

(I'm autistic and cyclothymic if that means anything here I guess)

Ah ok. I think that does help with understanding relating to other people yeah, I'm preconditioned to disregard and roll my eyes when people say they're really special and different. A bad habit. Whatever floats your boat, I'm glad you found something that works for you.

[Kith]

I've never understood how people can feel sure that they are spiritually another creature. Personally, I have no memories of ever being something other than human, so I wonder how someone can claim to know how a non-sentient animal would behave or feel. Maybe the way you think and process things is just human?

Say you have a dream. In this dream, your eye level was low to the ground, you felt all four limbs moving when you walked, and when you saw a human you ran up to it and instead of "hello" a barking sound emerged from you. After you awoke, you'd say that you dreamed about being a dog, yes?

 

While not necessarily the same thing, otherkin and therians can experience similar in their memories, dreams, meditation sessions, etc. Sometimes the experiences are as simple as the dream described, while others are rich with other sensory information, thoughts and feelings, and perhaps interactions with others of their kind. Usually these things recur, with enough sameness to that version of the self that the clues add up to one species or another eventually. Those of faiths closer to the shamanistic paths sometimes say that they have welcomed an animal spirit guide or totem into themselves so that it's become part of them. Others actually feel a kind of body dysphoria in which they feel their human body isn't the one they should have and that it should be of X species instead.

[Rosedamai]

Say you have a dream. In this dream, your eye level was low to the ground, you felt all four limbs moving when you walked, and when you saw a human you ran up to it and instead of "hello" a barking sound emerged from you. After you awoke, you'd say that you dreamed about being a dog, yes?

 

While not necessarily the same thing, otherkin and therians can experience similar in their memories, dreams, meditation sessions, etc. Sometimes the experiences are as simple as the dream described, while others are rich with other sensory information, thoughts and feelings, and perhaps interactions with others of their kind. Usually these things recur, with enough sameness to that version of the self that the clues add up to one species or another eventually. Those of faiths closer to the shamanistic paths sometimes say that they have welcomed an animal spirit guide or totem into themselves so that it's become part of them. Others actually feel a kind of body dysphoria in which they feel their human body isn't the one they should have and that it should be of X species instead.

IMHO that is exactly why I tend to not take otherkin seriously. It's always a description of how an animal acts-from a human's point of view.

 

In that dog example, you'd have to describe what it would be like to be have only 2 cones in your eyes instead of 3. You'd have to explain what it's like to turn from a primarily sight-based animal (human) to a dog, which, depending on the breed of course-I'd say that bloodhounds would have a more sensitive olfactory system than say a greyhound, because they're sighthounds and would not have to rely on smell as much, etc. If you were saying you're a hawk-kin for example-again depending on the type of hawk you are-it's not enough to just say you feel yourself flying or whatever you'd have yo explain the sudden chaos it causes from being a human to something with extraordinary eyesight that can also pick up the trail of phosper remains in a mouse's ueine. You literally see the world in a whole different way. Same with say, butterfly kin who'd have 5 color cones and be able to remember seeing way more different types of colors.

 

When I run into such otherkin it's always very generalized, not very specific("I'm a snake kin" "what species of snake?" "uhhhh.."), and never really account for what the animal would actually feel and behave. Hell if you're a snake and can see infrared waves the night sky itself would look very very different. Nothing about that though, it's always "I'm slithering" "eating a mouse" blah blah.

 

There are many mysteries unresolved in the animal kingdom abt animal behavior, such as the European eel's migration to lay eggs and mate (which has never been witnessed), which the otherkin that correlates to that group have never given an actual answer for so....

Edited March 25, 2015 by ylangylang

[Kith]

I've seen some accounts that do include these things, but the forum they were on went down years ago. However, you are correct in that many do not get that technical with sensory data or exact species, and some that try either don't have the biological background or haven't done the specific research to have the vocabulary to explain the experience.

 

It's really stuff that the person experiencing it needs to research, both in analysis of what they're experiencing and research of the kintype as a class to try to determine specifics (which then requires species research). If someone doesn't do this, it's harder for others to understand and accept, and things stay nebulous even internally.

[S0ren]

The hardest thing is that Otherkin are human. Because of this, how else are we supposed to process the information we receive but through a humanized experience? We cannot physically see in infrared. We cannot smell with the intensity of a bloodhound. We may not have the lingual and reasoning capability to translate all of the details we remember into words. But above all, we are human and are limited by that in our ability to understand and explain our experiences.

 

A lot of Otherkin are more general with animal types because they're still figuring out the details. It often takes years, even decades to get the exact species figured out. You can't know the name of something you've never seen or heard of in real life, so say someone is Secretary Birdkin, but has never heard of Secretary Birds. For years they might just say they're birdkin because that's all the more specific they can be! Or in an attempt to figure themselves out based on their mental image of their kintype, they might end up confused and think they have two different kintypes--one that is stork-like with long legs and one that is a more common bird of prey. But say they eventually see a picture of a secretary bird and something clicks. They know it's right.

 

I use this particular example because I love animals. I aced biology in high school. I would spend hours poring over animal encyclopedias. But I'm in my mid-twenties and only discovered Secretary Birds last year.

 

Everything is trapped being framed without our human experience and understanding. That is a fundamental part of our existence and is inescapable because we are human.

 

Another reason it's hard to impossible to get answers from Otherkin about otherwise unknown animal traits can easily be attributed to fear. This person finally has pieced together an identity, so what if science ends up proving them wrong? Their identity is shattered. They have no idea who they are anymore. So why share information you suspect, cannot prove, and may end up being wrong about when, if you are wrong, you'll get made fun of on top of your identity crisis?

 

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Honestly, I don't like thinking I'm special or different. Unfortunately, I am. I hate it. It's alienating. I know I am because I'm mentally ill so statistically I am very different from the majority of people. It's made even worse because I have several of them, including clinical depression, generalized anxiety, borderline personality disorder, PTSD, and a couple other things. I have to be on a slough of medications to be able to behave as society expects me to, especially when it comes to energy levels and paranoia.

 

Being Otherkin actually helps me feel more integrated with the people around me. I don't know how at least right now, but I'm sure it does. However, it can also be alienating because of how controversial it is. It's both a blessing and a curse in that sense.

 

-------------------------------

 

I do actually know quite a few details about the kind of dragon I believe myself to be, but...I'm a dragon. I can't expect anyone to take those details seriously. It sucks. It sucks because I know an important facet of who I am means absolutely nothing to anyone but me or is only important in the sense of trying to make me feel bad about it. Very, very few people will ever validate that part of me in comparison. It hurts just as badly as when people try to tell me I'm not really trans or not really asexual. Or when people say mean things about my artwork. Or comment about my weight in a negative way. It hurts because it's a part of me, whether other people believe it or not, and that most of the time if it's even acknowledged it's going to be treated negatively.

 

This isn't to say that I don't welcome criticism and questioning--I do--but I'm going to handle it better and be less emotionally wounded if it's being put in some ways versus others. Like being told "you're crazy" or "you need help" versus "okay but can you explain the process that led you to this conclusion?" versus "I'd love to hear some of your experiences that leads you to believe you're Otherkin". Each has a different tone, but most get across a similar point.

 

 

[rabbithaver]

I agree with everything S0ren said, especially about the approach. When someone has a very flat or negative tone, my first instinct is to dive into fight or flight. More often than not I end up fleeing, but occasionally I fight back, and get increasingly freaked out until I crash and burn. People tend to mistake this for anger when it's panic, and so very little educating gets done. :/ Otherkin communities have a lot of people who are mentally ill. For people like that, otherkin is a coping mechanism, and hearing criticism of coping mechanisms isn't fun for anyone.

 

IDK, I'm not in a great position to explain how I feel, but basically the point is that tone is really important. Otherkin are usually friendly and helpful, but not all of us can handle the responsibility of being ambassadors, I guess? I dunno. I'm kind of loopy right now from medication, hopefully this post makes sense.

 

Anywho, my friend and I met at a con over the weekend. It was a steampunk convention, so there was a lot of neat costumes. She got a pair of wings that she adores, because they really help her experience her astral wings. It's really cool.

[Esko]

Honestly, I cannot judge.

 

This whole thing sounds cool, thinking you are another creature. Even though lots of people seem to hate these Otherkin and how they act, but I would love to see such a thing! I respect people's wishes, or at least try hard to. I do not understand the people who see, to be against these people. Their wishes are their wishes, correct? If they wish to be called by a certain pronoun, it is respectful to fo with their wish, am I right?

 

It is not right to go against the wishes of people who just want to be called by a certain pronoun. It is such a simple wish, and yet people refuse. I do not understand. What is wrong with non binary people wanting to be called something? It is like smebody wanting to be called a certain nickname. So simple to fullfil that wish, correct?

 

Sorry if I am confusing, I am tired. But this is my opinion. I accept everybody, especially these Otherkin.

[rabbithaver]

Nounself pronouns are not a strictly otherkin phenomenon. I know a lot of people who use them who aren't kin in any way, but they aren't comfortable with any other pronouns.

 

I agree with you, but I really want to keep off the subject of pronouns, as it's been pretty upsetting for a lot of people. There's much more to otherkin than pronouns, after all. We have a variety of individual belief systems in our community. As well as different ways of identifying as otherkin.

[Esko]

Nounself pronouns are not a strictly otherkin phenomenon. I know a lot of people who use them who aren't kin in any way, but they aren't comfortable with any other pronouns.

 

I agree with you, but I really want to keep off the subject of pronouns, as it's been pretty upsetting for a lot of people. There's much more to otherkin than pronouns, after all. We have a variety of individual belief systems in our community. As well as different ways of identifying as otherkin.

Well that is great to know Thanks!

 

I shall do more research in the future ;D

[rabbithaver]

otherkin-faq on tumblr is a good resource, I highly recommend them.

[Lady_Lunevis]

Honestly, I cannot judge.

 

This whole thing sounds cool, thinking you are another creature. Even though lots of people seem to hate these Otherkin and how they act, but I would love to see such a thing! I respect people's wishes, or at least try hard to. I do not understand the people who see, to be against these people. Their wishes are their wishes, correct? If they wish to be called by a certain pronoun, it is respectful to fo with their wish, am I right?

 

It is not right to go against the wishes of people who just want to be called by a certain pronoun. It is such a simple wish, and yet people refuse. I do not understand. What is wrong with non binary people wanting to be called something? It is like smebody wanting to be called a certain nickname. So simple to fullfil that wish, correct?

 

Sorry if I am confusing, I am tired. But this is my opinion. I accept everybody, especially these Otherkin.

YES PLS if everyone had this attitude the world would be amazing

thank you!!! i dont even know what i'm saying thank you for but yes thank ୧(˃◡ु˂)୨

 

but yeah the subject of pronouns has been a bit . . . so far in this thread so talking about other things is good, yes!!

[Kestra15]

The issue with pronouns is basically summed up as follows:

 

As with many languages there is feminine, masculine and neutral, and in the English language we follow this pattern with basic pronouns ; he/him/his, she/her/hers, it/they/their, with you/yours for second person and I/mine for first person. For many people this is sufficient and everyone will fit into one of those three categories; male, female, and then neutral for all other purposes and groups.

 

"Neopronouns" is the term given to the rise of pronouns used for those who do not identify as male or female, and feel that the neutral term is too impersonal or offensive. 'Regular' neopronouns are the list of proposed pronouns for those who do not identify as the traditional bigender. This has then been taken to further extremes for anyone who wishes to differentiate themselves further, including some Otherkin, into "nounself" pronouns. These neopronouns take the form of (noun)self, or simply (noun) in place of he/she/his/her/etc.

 

The argument arises from those who feel that they require neopronouns as a way of identifying themselves, with the idea that the traditional three masculine/feminine/neutral do not accurately identify them. By not using neopronouns as requested by the person is seen as discrimination, bullying or ignorance and thus interpreted as an intolerance or disregard for their beliefs. Those opposed to neopronouns point out that there are three perfectly serviceable sets of pronouns for those who, regardless of what animal or mythical being someone identifies as, will apply - either male, female, or other (in which case use neutral). That any noun can be turned into a neopronoun makes a mockery of the English language and feels like a forced construct that, if anything, increases the isolation of these communities by their continued insistence of such terminology.

 

One person's explanation of how to use nounself pronouns.

 

Here is a nice article explaining why it would be nigh-impossible in other languages, using German as the example.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Kestra15

[Meg_752]

Say you have a dream. In this dream, your eye level was low to the ground, you felt all four limbs moving when you walked, and when you saw a human you ran up to it and instead of "hello" a barking sound emerged from you. After you awoke, you'd say that you dreamed about being a dog, yes?

 

While not necessarily the same thing, otherkin and therians can experience similar in their memories, dreams, meditation sessions, etc. Sometimes the experiences are as simple as the dream described, while others are rich with other sensory information, thoughts and feelings, and perhaps interactions with others of their kind. Usually these things recur, with enough sameness to that version of the self that the clues add up to one species or another eventually. Those of faiths closer to the shamanistic paths sometimes say that they have welcomed an animal spirit guide or totem into themselves so that it's become part of them. Others actually feel a kind of body dysphoria in which they feel their human body isn't the one they should have and that it should be of X species instead.

I don't actually know about this, but maybe someone could answer: Having one of these dreams does not necessarily mean you are an Otherkin, but does it mean you are more likely to be one?

[Nine]

If I wanted everyone to start referring to me as "God", people have every right to refuse. My preference, no matter the reasoning behind it, does not give me the ability to alter, change, or determine how or what people say. Just as I have the freedom of option, they too have the freedom of option, be it in agreement or disagreement of mine.

 

Suppose it's easier to say that if everyone is indeed on equal footing, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' personal decision.

[Kestra15]

I don't actually know about this, but maybe someone could answer: Having one of these dreams does not necessarily mean you are an Otherkin, but does it mean you are more likely to be one?

No, simply because many people would have had dreams like that.

[Pixxelation]

(First I want to clarify that when I was saying "neopronouns" before, I was strictly referring to the nounself variety. I am willing to use the proposed nonbinary pronouns that fulfill the purpose of 'standard' pronouns, such as the "xe" set, and had not realized that those pronoun sets fall under the neopronoun label.)

 

Now. There's some other reasoning I didn't really get into earlier on why I won't use nounself neopronouns. Otherkin is a concept rooted in spirituality, and is arguably similar to religion in that it contains a set of beliefs about having a spirit or soul. For this reason, I treat it likewise; no matter what my opinion of your set of beliefs (in this case otherkin), I will accept that that is who you are, and not try to convince you otherwise. However, nounself neopronouns go beyond simply asking for tolerance, as I then have to modify my own behavior to suit your own beliefs, which is really not quite fair. Tolerance would mean that I treat you as any other human being, not change how I act to suit your belief system. For example, I identify as bisexual. I don't ask religious people to accept and support my sexuality, because it is their right to decide whether they think it is right or wrong, even if that opinion is based on the misconception that sexuality is a choice. However, I do ask that they keep those beliefs to themselves and use them to define their own lives, rather than try to force them on other people. Just as I am tolerant of their religious beliefs, they need to understand and be tolerant of the fact that I do not hold them, and am going to follow behavioral patterns that do not fall under their ideals. They don't have the right to force me to 'renounce' my sexual identity, just as I do not have the right to force them to believe that non-hetero orientations are normal.

 

This applies here. Asking somebody to change the way they process and use language to suit your personal system of beliefs regarding reincarnation, the possession of an animal spirit, etc., is really not fair to them, just as it is unfair for me to try to tell you not to believe in whatever your personal take on otherkin is. I accept that that is who you are, and a huge part of your identity, but I won't use those pronouns because I am not comfortable using them, just as I would not comfortable going to church or crossing my heart. It is not discriminatory for me to refuse to use those pronouns, as I am not treating you any differently from any other person. English's pronouns sets are based on gender, and since otherkin is not a gender, I don't find purpose in using neopronouns. It's great if you do find use in them, and that some people are willing to use them, but you have to understand why others are not. Besides, you identifying as whatever you identify as should be all it takes to feel like your identity is valid; others' opinions are insignificant, as they cannot change who you are, nor should you let them try. Be yourself. But do not try to force others to change their opinions--it is doubtful that you would want that done to you.

 

I respect your identity and beliefs regarding possession of a nonhuman soul, so I ask that you please respect my beliefs when it comes to the same, particularly with the usage of nounself neopronouns.

[gyiyg]

Besides, you identifying as whatever you identify as should be all it takes to feel like your identity is valid; others' opinions are insignificant, as they cannot change who you are, nor should you let them try.

friend try having bpd or somethin similar and see if you'd still say somethin like this