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Just popping in to say that I'm slugkin (specifically banana slug) and birdkin as well as beekin :~)

Edited by Lady Artemis

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Hmmm. Interesting. I should maybe stalk post in this thread some more, seeing as I'm both dragonkin and fictionkin (Ninth and Twelfth Doctors, respectively). I have a seperate kinblog on tumblr, but well, I haven't updated it much lately and I don't really talk about kin things with anyone actively anywhere...

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Hmmm. Interesting. I should maybe stalk post in this thread some more, seeing as I'm both dragonkin and fictionkin (Ninth and Twelfth Doctors, respectively). I have a seperate kinblog on tumblr, but well, I haven't updated it much lately and I don't really talk about kin things with anyone actively anywhere...

I'm fictionkin as well!

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Hmmm. Interesting. I should maybe stalk post in this thread some more, seeing as I'm both dragonkin and fictionkin (Ninth and Twelfth Doctors, respectively). I have a seperate kinblog on tumblr, but well, I haven't updated it much lately and I don't really talk about kin things with anyone actively anywhere...

It'd be nice to talk to other otherkin! Especially other dragonkin too! <3

 

Based on my explorations, experiences, experiments, and figuring things out about myself, I can say I'm dragonkin, angelkin, and some kind of shapeshifter. Wolf, cat, horse, bird, and a dinosaur raptor have come and gone from time to time. The dragonkin and shapeshifter-kin have been pretty consistent with the angelkin more of a recent discovery.

 

I've heard of fictionkin but never had a chance to talk to someone who is one until now. smile.gif [Tbh never got a chance to actually talk to many other 'kins online, but I've read things written by them, and faced some put-downs by critics as well.]

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Yeah, I'm not very open about being fictionkin because we get a lot of hate, even within the larger 'kin community.

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Yeah, I'm not very open about being fictionkin because we get a lot of hate, even within the larger 'kin community.

That sucks. sad.gif I'm fine with fictionkin because I ascribe to the multiple dimensions, realities, and universes theory. Along with multiple worlds. Who's to say it's not actually real in some place of our multiverse? How do we really know for SURE either way? No definitive proof that this is all there is (and plenty of quantum mechanics to suggest otherwise), and no clear proof that there are other dimensions/realities/universes/worlds out there as well.

 

So in the absence of any hard proof, I'll still go with the whole multiple worlds, universes, realities, and dimensions. :3 That to me, makes fictionkin real and true as well. :3

 

Also I'm a writer working to become a published author, and I've long had the feeling that I'm less of a "creator" of the worlds and people I write about, and more of a "spying journalist" that is the ultimate peeping tom into real people's lives and realities. cx They're so real to me, so how can they not actually BE real? cx

 

Anyways that's just how I see it. :3 <3

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Yeah, I'm not very open about being fictionkin because we get a lot of hate, even within the larger 'kin community.

I feel you, I'm always afraid of saying it because people's reactions make me feel silly and juvenile.

 

Sapph (can I call you that?), I just read what you posted and had to say that your thoughts on dimensions and writers being spies into other worlds is /exactly/ how I feel as well!

Edited by Lady Artemis

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I feel you, I'm always afraid of saying it because people's reactions make me feel silly and juvenile.

 

Sapph (can I call you that?), I just read what you posted and had to say that your thoughts on dimensions and writers being spies into other worlds is /exactly/ how I feel as well!

You can call me Indi or Indigo because Sapphira_Majoram was a user name I made when I was a lot younger and I've wished to change it since. Oh well!

 

Yay glad someone else thinks in a similar way! xd.png I always have the MOST interesting times of my daydreaming, watching those people interact, and RPing them as well. I seriously think I am just watching what they're doing and reporting it back to people here on Earth. It does make me wonder if any of the lives of people here on Earth are recorded similarly and made into books adorning the shelves of other worlds? Would they be shelved in fantasy too as so many of our "outlandish" fiction tend to be? LOL! That would be fitting justice indeed! xd.png

 

Seriously I've had some freaky occurrences happening with names, a plot point or two, and even with what an RP character said that I had to double-check online and it proved to be true, as well as a thing I had NEVER heard about until that moment. blink.gif Boggles my mind a lot I'll say!

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I've heard of fictionkin but never had a chance to talk to someone who is one until now. smile.gif [Tbh never got a chance to actually talk to many other 'kins online, but I've read things written by them, and faced some put-downs by critics as well.]

I understand. I haven't been chatty myself, like I mentioned. But when I see questions about otherkin/fictionkin in the tags I do my best to respond. I like to think it helps, gives people a chance to get over their confusion.

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...and plenty of quantum mechanics to suggest otherwise...

*facepalm*

 

Quantum mechanics is *not* an excuse for theorising our fictions are true in another reality. Quantum mechanics is the physics of small atomic particles, not an excuse to think you're Peter Capaldi.

 

(Note: I studied this at Masters level, hence why my academic rage at people who think that quantum mechanics is a scientific buzzword for 'everything exists somewhere.' It doesn't.)

Edited by Kestra15

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Quantum mechanics is *not* an excuse for theorising our fictions are true in another reality. Quantum mechanics is the physics of small atomic particles, not an excuse to think you're Peter Capaldi.

I recognise that Quantum mechanics is in no way related to 'other universe' theories. But that's not the point. My point is that you seem a little bit too offended here? Maybe that's just me misreading your tone, and if so I appologize. Still, I feel that you could have phrased that a little bit better. Because some of us [me] do identify as the Twelfth Doctor, but I guarentee you I've never used magic, philosophy, religion, etc. to explain it. Identifying this way is how I describe some weird mental phenomena that I experience. If you want, I can go into more detail about this, but anyways...

 

TL;DR version: You seemed pretty confrontational to me there.

Edited by Faith_the_vampire_slayer

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Trying to use real, hard science to explain such a fringe internet phenomena is going to upset the scientist in me, but what upsets me even more is the claim that someone somehow has the soul of a real person. The Twelfth Doctor is a fictional creation portrayed by a real person, and for someone to claim they have the soul of that fictional creation is claiming they have the soul of a real life person. Given how Otherkin is a phenomena described entirely as people believing they have the soul of something other than a human, to now claim you have the soul of a living breathing person is pretty grim and rather demon-esque - at this point, it is claiming to be stealing away someone's life essence. So yes, this is pushing the limits of my tolerance on this occasion.

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Trying to use real, hard science to explain such a fringe internet phenomena is going to upset the scientist in me, but what upsets me even more is the claim that someone somehow has the soul of a real person. The Twelfth Doctor is a fictional creation portrayed by a real person, and for someone to claim they have the soul of that fictional creation is claiming they have the soul of a real life person. Given how Otherkin is a phenomena described entirely as people believing they have the soul of something other than a human, to now claim you have the soul of a living breathing person is pretty grim and rather demon-esque - at this point, it is claiming to be stealing away someone's life essence. So yes, this is pushing the limits of my tolerance on this occasion.

You seem to not know much about fictionkin. It's a different feeling for everyone, but for me at least it's a feeling of strong connection and understanding, in a way that you might understand yourself. It has nothing to do with being "possessed" by a fictional soul. It's merely a very tight bond. A lot of fictionkin, myself included, use the characters as coping mechanisms for past trauma or illnesses.

 

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As I understand it, being fictionkin has nothing to do with the real person(s) portraying the character(s), only the character(s) involved. Mr. Capaldi isn't The Doctor himself, he just plays him on television, therefore nobody is claiming to have or be part of/related to Mr. Capaldi's soul or essence, merely that of that particular incarnation of The Doctor.

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Given how Otherkin is a phenomena described entirely as people believing they have the soul of something other than a human, to now claim you have the soul of a living breathing person is pretty grim and rather demon-esque - at this point, it is claiming to be stealing away someone's life essence. So yes, this is pushing the limits of my tolerance on this occasion.

I understand your confusion. But again, I am not (and never have) said that I had his SOUL. I said I would explain further if you wanted. Well, here it is: I am psychologically kin with the Twelfth Doctor. And the Ninth, but I'll focus on the first for the purposes of this explanation.

 

This means, in my case, that I have mental 'shifts' where I will literally look down and see one of their bodies where *mine* would ordinarily be. Never both doctors at the same time, yet, but brains are a bit odd and I will not say that that will never happen just because it has not happened yet. But getting back to the point, I should also mention that my thought patterns/behavior during these shifts will become something very like the Doctor's. Or at least very very close, judging from what we can assume about their personalities from the show. Thus my classing this as a psychological phenomena.

 

This is also how I tend to experience my...dragonkinness. For lack of a better term.

 

Yes, some otherkin and fictionkin are spiritually (or believe that they are) connected to their kintype/s. For example, a fox therian or a dragonkin who believes that they were reincarnated. But others identify as their kintypes because they feel fox/dragon/etc. in a way more like I described. So really, the definition that you gave, that 'Otherkin is a phenomena described entirely as people believing they have the soul of something other than a human' isn't the whole truth. Otherkin/fictionkin/therians have a sort of spectrum of experiences, if you will. So I understand that it may be difficult to understand a range of feelings that you - I assume - have never felt or experienced for yourself. But I completely don't understand you when you attack me in particular and other fictionkin in general as 'grim and rather demon-esque'. This is not something that I asked to feel, this is NOT any kind of malicious attack on the actors who portrayed these characters, and it isn't any kind 'wheeeeeeee look at me, I'm going to disrespect trans people' effort, as people on tumblr seem to assume.

 

And yes, I know you didn't accuse me/fictionkin as a whole of the last bit. That argument seems to be directed against otherkin and therians more so than fictionkin, anyway, but I thought I would mention it so we don't rehash that whole ugly debate here as well. Because this is primarily an otherkin thread, and let's face it, the kin community has seen that debate and been part of that debate far too much already.

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You seem to not know much about fictionkin. It's a different feeling for everyone, but for me at least it's a feeling of strong connection and understanding, in a way that you might understand yourself. It has nothing to do with being "possessed" by a fictional soul. It's merely a very tight bond. A lot of fictionkin, myself included, use the characters as coping mechanisms for past trauma or illnesses.

Fiction-kin are a subset of Otherkin, who are by their own definition those who partially or totally identify with non-humans on a spiritual or psychological level. Those spiritual belief vary from merely imitating some traits, to identifying and understanding on some level, to the full belief that your spirit/soul is indeed that of the non-human in question. Thus to claim that you are an X-kin, you identify spiritually on some level as being the X in question. How you use this spiritual/psychological method is fine, and as I have explicitly stated before I can understand such coping mechanisms since I employ them myself. (See my earlier posts on 'Cub' and 'Akira-class' though the latter is now undergoing a refit to an Armitage-class).

 

Now, I am a very strong believer in the existence of the soul. I believe that we have a spark of life, something that makes us more than just organic matter reproducing, and when I have witnessed death there is a definable moment for me where I go from seeing a person who has died to a body that is decomposing. It isn't at a set time, but it is normally not long after 'death' has occurred. That soul is someone's, their own, the unique thing that makes that person who they are. It is sacrosanct, and not even God (or Fate, Karma, luck, whatever you ascribe as being the higher force of this plane) has the right to alter, adjust, take or give that soul away.

 

The Twelfth Doctor is a creation of minds, lines and dialogue and clothing and setting and casting, but what makes all that an actual character is the actor - Peter Capaldi. He breathes life into the Doctor, makes us understand and believe and identify with him. Like Matt Smith, who brought the Doctor to life in his speech to the Atraxi, Peter convinced me this really was the Doctor in the pre-credits scene of 'Deep Breath.' It is Peter's life force, his vitality, that turns the Twelfth Doctor from a concept to a reality. A part of Peter is the Twelfth Doctor. There wouldn't be a Twelfth Doctor without an actor, in this case Mr Capaldi.

 

So to me, the claim that someone is a Twelth Doctor fictionkin is pretty grim. For someone who believes in the concept of souls, to say that you spiritually identify or embody him? The Twelfth Doctor's soul is Capaldi's, a person still living and breathing at this time, and you want to claim that you may in part embody that person's soul? It's very, very difficult to put into words how that feels, to say that you may lay claim to another person's life essence or in some way embody or share it.

 

(P.S. I at no point mentioned possession. That would be Peter pushing his soul into your body, which is equally not cool.)

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I believe I understand, at least partially, where you're coming from, but I do have a question. In your estimation, is a character lacking a soul until it is portrayed by a human in some medium such as a TV show or video game, or do those residing solely in written or comic form have souls through their authors/artists?

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The soul is something that is for the living. There is an aspect of all written/illustrated work that will bear the mark of whoever committed it to paper/tablet/etc, and we all put a bit of ourselves into that work. I know when I write parts of myself come through in characters, and I put a lot of time and love into it. I get genuinely upset in RPs when my character of five years work has to lose their closest friend, or make a sadistic choice, etc. It will trouble me more than my real life in some instances. They are almost alive to me.

 

But they are not. They are fiction, and exist purely in those realms. No matter how much work you put in, how real they are to the individual, they are not alive. No life, no soul. Doesn't mean they are not important, doesn't mean they can't seem or feel real, but sadly those things are still fiction and by definition do not exist. So no, no soul.

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There's something called the placebo/nocebo effect.

A example.

A women is told she had 30 days to live by a doctor. 30 days later she dies, with no cause or reason to be found. This actually happened.

Now for the smells and etc from the other post is most likely a fascination with wings and things, and wishing you were there longer.

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The Twelfth Doctor is a creation of minds, lines and dialogue and clothing and setting and casting, but what makes all that an actual character is the actor - Peter Capaldi. He breathes life into the Doctor, makes us understand and believe and identify with him. Like Matt Smith, who brought the Doctor to life in his speech to the Atraxi, Peter convinced me this really was the Doctor in the pre-credits scene of 'Deep Breath.' It is Peter's life force, his vitality, that turns the Twelfth Doctor from a concept to a reality. A part of Peter is the Twelfth Doctor. There wouldn't be a Twelfth Doctor without an actor, in this case Mr Capaldi.

Again, I did not 'choose' any of this. I have in no way laid claim to the Twelfth Doctor as solely mine. Nor have I said anything about souls, which seems to be the point of your arguments. This is not a soul thing! And for pity's sake, the Doctor is not the same as the actor playing him. That's like expecting someone to be a serial killer just because they ACTED as a serial killer in a show. Are you seriously suggesting that just because someone plays something in a TV show that they are partially a space cop, CSI consultant, serial killer, etc? I'm sure Peter (and most other actors!) enjoy the characters they take part in creating. But that does not mean that I or any other fictionkin are 'stealing' the souls of the actors in any way.

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The soul is something that is for the living. There is an aspect of all written/illustrated work that will bear the mark of whoever committed it to paper/tablet/etc, and we all put a bit of ourselves into that work. I know when I write parts of myself come through in characters, and I put a lot of time and love into it. I get genuinely upset in RPs when my character of five years work has to lose their closest friend, or make a sadistic choice, etc. It will trouble me more than my real life in some instances. They are almost alive to me.

 

But they are not. They are fiction, and exist purely in those realms. No matter how much work you put in, how real they are to the individual, they are not alive. No life, no soul. Doesn't mean they are not important, doesn't mean they can't seem or feel real, but sadly those things are still fiction and by definition do not exist. So no, no soul.

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make.

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This thread is about a spiritual belief - hence there will be points where individual spiritual beliefs will clash. Your belief is that you do not take an aspect of someone's soul, my belief is that you are. So I doubt either of us will be satisfied with the answers of the other here. Which for me is fine; I didn't come into this part of the debate expecting to change your mind on your belief. It just jarred tremendously with my own belief. The point is I don't believe Capaldi is the Doctor any more than thinking that someone acting a serial killer is a serial killer. But they are the ones who bring life to the character and make it more than just a collection of words on a page somewhere, and so by claiming that you have some spiritual connection to that character means you claim having a connection to the person portraying them. And while you don't believe you are claiming a part of their soul, I believe the opposite - and I doubt either of us will budge on that point!

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The soul is something that is for the living. There is an aspect of all written/illustrated work that will bear the mark of whoever committed it to paper/tablet/etc, and we all put a bit of ourselves into that work. I know when I write parts of myself come through in characters, and I put a lot of time and love into it. I get genuinely upset in RPs when my character of five years work has to lose their closest friend, or make a sadistic choice, etc. It will trouble me more than my real life in some instances. They are almost alive to me.

 

But they are not. They are fiction, and exist purely in those realms. No matter how much work you put in, how real they are to the individual, they are not alive. No life, no soul. Doesn't mean they are not important, doesn't mean they can't seem or feel real, but sadly those things are still fiction and by definition do not exist. So no, no soul.

Ah... I see. I'm not sure how much I agree, but at least I understand now. Thank you.

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And while you don't believe you are claiming a part of their soul, I believe the opposite - and I doubt either of us will budge on that point!

Yeah, you're right. I don't believe in something so intangible as a soul. What I believe in is mental processes, and that is the basis for my identification as fictionkin. Therefore what I urge you to ask yourself is this: why are you coming onto this thread to spew opinions about souls? And why did you target me when I did absolutely nothing to you?

 

Because ultimately the truth is that you did not approach the topic in a polite way. You attacked me, belittled an entire group of people, and did so...simply to create drama, it seems. I would have gladly had a discussion with you over otherkin and fictionkin if you had been willing to actually, you know, discuss the topic constructively. So go take your opinions elsewhere. They aren't warrented, wanted, or helpful here.

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