Otherkin

[Pixxelation]

Obviously, I can't just "try" having a disorder. Note that I was speaking generally, and that there will always be exceptions to statements such as what I made. However, like I said, I will accept your identity for what it is, as long as you do not force your beliefs upon me and assert that they are superior to my own. I will try to be supportive of your identity when possible, so long as it does not force me to change my own personal views.

 

Now, on the subject of mental illness, self-diagnoses are very far from clinical diagnoses. My sister suffers mental illness, and if her self-diagnoses had been correct, she'd have at least three disorders that her psychiatrist quickly ruled out upon being discussed and analyzed, including borderline personality disorder. While it is entirely possible that you may have a disorder based on symptoms you are noticing, it is important to make sure you have a clinical diagnosis before telling people that you have the disorder, because while it is possible you do indeed have said disorder, you just as easily may have misdiagnosed yourself due to a lack of expertise.

[gyiyg]

yeeeah I've been misdiagnosed by "professionals" before and I think I know myself better than people who are paid to think they know me better than I do and I'm not goin into this with you

 

(honestly i don't outwardly present how i feel right and i get really stressed out when they try to test me for things and end up answering more how i think they'd expect me to than how i actually feel (ESPECIALLY since my mom is almost always in the room) and they tried to diagnose me with like three different things that they ended up taking back before finally diagnosing me with autism and anxiety and i'm not going through that again

(actually i think DD-NOS is STILL on my most recent diagnosis whatever and it's like,,, no? that ain't it

and it took them FOREVER to strike ADHD off there like come on what are you doing

i dunno it kinda felt like they were graspin at straws with me))

Edited April 3, 2015 by Pika_Oi

[Pixxelation]

Misdiagnoses can and do happen, but note that psychiatrists have gone to school and studied these disorders for years. They may not know what it's like to be in your body, but you also don't have the expertise required to ascertain that you have a disorder. Saying that you might have a disorder is entirely different from saying that you have diagnosed your own disorder, because you do not have the education required to make said diagnosis. Psychiatrists are not paid to know you better than you do yourself, but rather are paid to use their knowledge and your own symptoms to develop a reasonable conjecture about what may be causing any abnormalities. They may be wrong, but are more qualified to draw conclusions than most patients.

 

Anyway, this is getting off-topic; we should probably take this to the mental illness thread, if there is one, should you wish to continue discussing this with me (but you sound like you don't, so that, too, is fine ^^).

 

~

 

Back to otherkin: Does anyone have an issue with just using the neutral "they" set of pronouns to generally refer to people on the Internet? I've started doing that lately because I know I'm going to mess up people's genders since I almost never have a visual picture of said person in my mind, and if I do, it's sometimes incorrect and based on their avatar. I want to make sure this isn't seen as misgendering and doesn't step on any toes, but it makes things much easier, IMO.

[gyiyg]

Back to otherkin: Does anyone have an issue with just using the neutral "they" set of pronouns to generally refer to people on the Internet? I've started doing that lately because I know I'm going to mess up people's genders since I almost never have a visual picture of said person in my mind, and if I do, it's sometimes incorrect and based on their avatar. I want to make sure this isn't seen as misgendering and doesn't step on any toes, but it makes things much easier, IMO.

It's generally considered fine to refer to people as "they" if you don't know their pronouns

some people really don't like being referred to that way if they have pronouns listed and they're not they pronouns though so it's generally better to check if they do first

[rabbithaver]

-snip-

 

Now. There's some other reasoning I didn't really get into earlier on why I won't use nounself neopronouns. Otherkin is a concept rooted in spirituality, and is arguably similar to religion in that it contains a set of beliefs about having a spirit or soul. For this reason, I treat it likewise; no matter what my opinion of your set of beliefs (in this case otherkin), I will accept that that is who you are, and not try to convince you otherwise. However, nounself neopronouns go beyond simply asking for tolerance, as I then have to modify my own behavior to suit your own beliefs, which is really not quite fair. Tolerance would mean that I treat you as any other human being, not change how I act to suit your belief system. For example, I identify as bisexual. I don't ask religious people to accept and support my sexuality, because it is their right to decide whether they think it is right or wrong, even if that opinion is based on the misconception that sexuality is a choice. However, I do ask that they keep those beliefs to themselves and use them to define their own lives, rather than try to force them on other people. Just as I am tolerant of their religious beliefs, they need to understand and be tolerant of the fact that I do not hold them, and am going to follow behavioral patterns that do not fall under their ideals. They don't have the right to force me to 'renounce' my sexual identity, just as I do not have the right to force them to believe that non-hetero orientations are normal.

 

This applies here. Asking somebody to change the way they process and use language to suit your personal system of beliefs regarding reincarnation, the possession of an animal spirit, etc., is really not fair to them, just as it is unfair for me to try to tell you not to believe in whatever your personal take on otherkin is. I accept that that is who you are, and a huge part of your identity, but I won't use those pronouns because I am not comfortable using them, just as I would not comfortable going to church or crossing my heart. It is not discriminatory for me to refuse to use those pronouns, as I am not treating you any differently from any other person. English's pronouns sets are based on gender, and since otherkin is not a gender, I don't find purpose in using neopronouns. It's great if you do find use in them, and that some people are willing to use them, but you have to understand why others are not. Besides, you identifying as whatever you identify as should be all it takes to feel like your identity is valid; others' opinions are insignificant, as they cannot change who you are, nor should you let them try. Be yourself. But do not try to force others to change their opinions--it is doubtful that you would want that done to you.

This is something I didn't consider in the last argument, and I apologize for that. I had my head up my ass pretty far, and I think I was misunderstanding a lot of what was said; a good deal of arguments read as "why should we care about other people" in my eyes, and I didn't realize this was the point you were trying to make. I was very rude, and again: I apologize. I won't do that again, and with luck, there won't be another situation like it. I will definitely step away next time I feel anxious, as last time it just kept escalating.

 

I will be the first to admit I have no shortage of faults, and one of them is that I'm not good at keeping my emotions reined in, and they got the best of me. I get anxious and go into fight-or-flight mode, and I ended up fighting. It wasn't out of anger, it was fear because I kind of felt ganged up on, but whatever.

 

*slinks under pile of blankets* I'm done. Sorry again.

[Omega Entity]

This is something I didn't consider in the last argument, and I apologize for that. I had my head up my ass pretty far, and I think I was misunderstanding a lot of what was said; a good deal of arguments read as "why should we care about other people" in my eyes, and I didn't realize this was the point you were trying to make. I was very rude, and again: I apologize. I won't do that again, and with luck, there won't be another situation like it. I will definitely step away next time I feel anxious, as last time it just kept escalating.

 

I will be the first to admit I have no shortage of faults, and one of them is that I'm not good at keeping my emotions reined in, and they got the best of me. I get anxious and go into fight-or-flight mode, and I ended up fighting. It wasn't out of anger, it was fear because I kind of felt ganged up on, but whatever.

 

*slinks under pile of blankets* I'm done. Sorry again.

PieMaster, I think you sum up my thoughts perfectly. Very well-written and clear!

 

Oddi, I want to commend you on owning up to what happened. It takes a very big (and mature!) person to admit that they might have handled something wrong, and you should be extremely proud of that! I know plenty of older, non-anxiety-ridden people who aren't capable of it, and is certainly a rare and positive trait.

 

So don't beat yourself up so much. Mistakes were made, yes, but you've handled the situation admirably.

 

PS: I'm also suffer from anxiety - not enough to cause actual panic attacks, but enough to understand working myself into a tizzy over things, and can certainly commiserate to some degree

[nlechoppa]

~Removed~ Edited July 16, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[PerkyHedgewitch]

Hey, a thread on Otherkin. I'm glad to see one here. I've been a part of the Otherkin community in one fashion or another for about 16 years. It's good to see there are others here too.

[elynne]

I'm always amused by people "poking holes" in Otherkin beliefs who wouldn't do the same thing to every other religion/spirituality/belief system in existence.

 

there's two kinds of things in the world: "objective reality," which is the universe of things that broadly speaking we can hit with a stick; and "subjective reality," which includes made-up, abstract concepts like love, justice, beauty, truth, spirituality, gender, money, ownership, etc etc; and "quantum reality," which is a whole other thing that is probably more real than everything else put together which would be great if anybody other than quantum physicists understood it. given this, why is it any more (or less) absurd for a person to believe they are spiritually nonhuman than to believe that they're going to a "better place" (or that they will continue on as a conscious being) after they die, or that there is an omniscient being that has been running the entire infinitely large universe for billions of years and yet actually cares whether you eat hot dogs on Friday?

 

I find the easiest way of explaining my Otherkin-ness is by saying that everybody makes up stories to describe how they came to be and who they are; mine just happen to be "more imaginative" than usual. most of the time, I just don't bring it up at all, unless I know that I'm talking to someone who is likely to be at least receptive to discussing the idea, because the endless knee-jerk "lol ur crazy" reactions get tedious after a while, and because there's only so many ways you can hide bodies before the authorities start to notice I mean wait what.

[Brotato]

My last encounter with a rather amusing otherkin was on an IRC where some loonie was claiming they were born with the "soul of a dragon". One day he went on and on with his butchered interpretations of world history, and how he was able to tell people's past lives (over the ing internet no less), so when we conversed about it, I told him I didn't believe in any of his wild claims, and the argument escalated. This person later quit the community, and I was briefly booted for "harassment".

 

Needless to say, I was not amused.

 

On the topic of "otherkin", I have one simple principle on that matter.

If you're using the perks of human life, then you must accept the identity, responsibilities and disadvantages of a human as well. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Spin any fanciful tale you wish about spirits or souls, but if you insist that I modify my behavior in any way specifically to accommodate your fragile ego, then you're pressed for luck. It ain't happening, because I won't take your word for it. I simply won't, and neither should anyone else.

 

Trans-genders are, ofcourse, an exception, as gender identity strongly hinges on a lot of real world factors that have been studied and proven to have a strong influence on one's perception of their gender identity.

 

@elynne; Pro Tip: Ashes are easier to hide.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Brotato

[nlechoppa]

To be honest.

Otherkin tend to choose just the "cool" aspects of a animal to be like.

Then claim they have the soul of "insert majestic tumblr creature here".

You can believe what you want but at the end of the day.

You have a human body, a human soul and a human brain.

Therefore you are a human.

Of course I will get shot down for this by people who vehemently don't want to accept this.

[gyiyg]

You can't have your cake and eat it too

why not

if i have the cake and it is my cake why can i not eat it is that not the entire point of cake i don't understand this phrase :V

 

anyhow i'm not actually engaging with y'all this thread was stressful enough last time and i'm especially not dealing with "i am superior intelligent you SPIRITUAL PEOPLE are silly know-nothing i better than all of you" types r/n c':

[Kith]

a human soul

*headscratch* How would this be objectively proven or disproven? Obviously body and brain can be tested scientifically and proven to be human, but how so the soul? If you say you have a human soul, I say you have a platypus soul, someone else says all souls are the same, and science doesn't acknowledge the existence of a soul, what would you do to determine who was correct?

 

(Note: This isn't mockery, but a genuine question born of curiosity.)

 

 

@Pika: That particular saying is a bit confusing, but it basically means something like this... You can have the cake, and it's there. You can eat it, and it's not there. But you can't still have it if you've eaten it already, so having it and eating it isn't possible.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Kith

[gyiyg]

@Pika: That particular saying is a bit confusing, but it basically means something like this... You can have the cake, and it's there. You can eat it, and it's not there. But you can't still have it if you've eaten it already, so having it and eating it isn't possible.

the point of cake is to eat it though like what are you supposed to do with it if not eat it just leave it there rotting for all eternity like Miss Havisham

i'm no Miss Havisham

like if it was meant to make sense why did they not choose an object that has a function beyond eating

Edited July 29, 2015 by Pika_Oi

[Kith]

Since I don't know who came up with it, I couldn't tell you.

[TehUltimateMage]

This isn't a linguistics thread, but perhaps a better way of phrasing it would be "You can't eat your cake and still have it", though "To have your cake and eat it" is the one in common usage. I like the similar idioms in other languages listed on the Wikipedia page, such as "you can't sit on two horses with one butt".

 

Or, for the therians out there, the German "Wash my fur but don't get me wet" is one of my favorite ones.

[Omega Entity]

"you can't sit on two horses with one butt"

I like this one, and I think it's a lot more understandable than ' you can't have your cake and eat it too".

 

 

[St. Jimmy]

Spin any fanciful tale you wish about spirits or souls, but if you insist that I modify my behavior in any way specifically to accommodate your fragile ego, then you're pressed for luck. It ain't happening, because I won't take your word for it. I simply won't, and neither should anyone else.

I don't personally care what you do with your behavior? Just like I wouldn't force you to believe my religion I really don't care whether anyone else believes me or not, because I know what's true to me. Our egos aren't all that fragile, mate, and that comment was kind of rude.

 

Trans-genders are, ofcourse, an exception, as gender identity strongly hinges on a lot of real world factors that have been studied and proven to have a strong influence on one's perception of their gender identity.

Some of us are both trans and otherkin. And again for some of us, the experiences are similar (but not always.)

 

You can believe what you want but at the end of the day.

You have a human body, a human soul and a human brain.

Therefore you are a human.

Never claimed to not have a human body or brain. As for the soul, prove it.

[nlechoppa]

 

 

Never claimed to not have a human body or brain. As for the soul, prove it.

Prove you don't have a human soul.

Prove somehow you were a animal in a past life.

Prove somehow that dragons exist.

Prove why 99% of otherkin are either dragons or wolves.

[Kith]

To abbreviate my earlier question, how is anyone supposed to prove anything regarding souls?

[TehUltimateMage]

Trying to prove that a soul is human or not is like trying to prove that God does or does not exist. Both parties have to bear the burden of proof (hey, I learned this in philosophy class: you can't go "prove it!" to the other party to clear yourself the need to give evidence), but otherkin-ness by nature is next to impossible to prove without relying on anecdotes... which aren't an objective proof.

 

I find it's a question of faith. Prove that dragons exist? If people truly believe they are fictionkin, dragons and elves aren't much of a stretch.

[nlechoppa]

Trying to prove that a soul is human or not is like trying to prove that God does or does not exist. Both parties have to bear the burden of proof (hey, I learned this in philosophy class: you can't go "prove it!" to the other party to clear yourself the need to give evidence), but otherkin-ness by nature is next to impossible to prove without relying on anecdotes... which aren't an objective proof.

 

I find it's a question of faith. Prove that dragons exist? If people truly believe they are fictionkin, dragons and elves aren't much of a stretch.

So how is there not a single shred of evidence of dragons or elves ever existing.

Clearly if there were intelligent/giant creatures we would've known by now.

[St. Jimmy]

Prove you don't have a human soul.

Prove somehow you were a animal in a past life.

Prove somehow that dragons exist.

Prove why 99% of otherkin are either dragons or wolves.

It seems we're at a stalemate then, as neither of us can prove the other wrong. And I don't really care enough to try, and you don't seem to care enough to listen.

 

So how is there not a single shred of evidence of dragons or elves ever existing.

Clearly if there were intelligent/giant creatures we would've known by now.

They may not necessarily exist in this universe. Or they might. We have no idea what kind of life lives on other planets.

 

[Gsea]

While I may not understand or relate to otherkin (especially those with spiritual/soul connections to non-human things, as I am not a big believer in souls or spirituality), I know better than to disregard their beliefs and experiences.

 

I have no problem with (and no strong feelings about) otherkin - my motto is "you do you, as long as it's not keeping someone else from doing the same." Basically I don't tolerate ignorance or hatefulness.

 

I still tilt my head questioningly when I come across otherkin people, only because it's relatively unfamiliar to me. But so far they've all been nice and reasonable people.

 

My only "issue" is the whole pronoun thing, only because I cannot, and will not, treat nouns as pronouns. If an otherkin has a list of acceptable pronouns, I will always go with the actual pronoun option (she, he, they, xe/ze) than "catself, plantself, bunself" etc., only because it makes no grammatical sense.

 

edited for typo

edit again to note that I'm using the term 'otherkin' as an umbrella for what the first post deems two different things, Otherkin and Therians.

Edited July 31, 2015 by glamoursea2

[Obscure_Trash]

Prove you don't have a human soul.

Prove somehow you were a animal in a past life.

Prove somehow that dragons exist.

Prove why 99% of otherkin are either dragons or wolves.

What are you feeling right now? Prove it.

 

What was the last dream you had? Prove it.

 

Reminder that respecting people means accepting what they have to say and who they are. We do not grill people on their identity here. This thread is meant to be a discussion of otherkin, not an interrogation of users.