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LOTR meets Stargate

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"Will do." Carter confirmed about the redressing, and finished up the packing when Alex drifted over to pick up the crossbow bolt.


She did glance over at his comment of 'strange' and eyed the bolt.


"No, I haven't. But then again I'm not an expert on archaic weaponry." She paused as she took in the design a bit longer.


"All I can tell you is that its a crossbow bolt - and effective at inflicting injury and pain."


The first aid kit went back into the side pocket of her backpack.


"Daniel might have a better idea - once he's done the introductions." Carter's eyes drifted towards the conversing group taking in the last part of Brod's glance at Teal'c. Uh oh.... I think we may have a Jaffa problem.


In the hopes of at least delaying the issue, Carter slowly stood up and held out her backpack towards Teal'c with her uninjured arm.


"Think you could help me put this on?" She hated asking for help - but at least if Teal'c was helping rather than just standing around, then perhaps it could ease minds a little.


"I believe I can Major Carter, " the simple statement was then followed by Teal'c taking the extended backpack and proceeding to assist Carter settle it back on her shoulders.


Mainly all he was needed for was to take the weight and hold it in such a position that Carter didn't need to twist her arms too much.

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((OOC: I'm assuming that in this version of things, the Tau'ri have never had Tolkien write The Lord of the Rings/etc, but I realized I should make sure since it will affect how Daniel reacts to the word "Elven" and the appearance of the Dwarves.))

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[i was actually thinking Tolkien got his ideas from the 'early Stargate program' - much like Catherine's husband and Daniel's grandfather were 'involved'. Though it would require some fudging on the publication dates.... as well as his lifespan.... It would explain his ability with language 'creation' however.


I only say that though as Carter recognised Brod and his group as a 'classic interpretation of Dwarves' though she's unlikely to make the connection despite being a 'geek' as O'Neill would say.


Plus there were never Jaffa and Gou'uld in Tolkien tongue.gif]

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((I was also wondering whether or not the Tau’ri would have had Tolkien’s works, and in addition to Takhesis’s idea, here are some other possibilities that popped to mind…

~Tolkien may have found a passing reference to Sauron and some of the basics of Middle Earth in some incredibly obscure writings and based his works on that?

~Tolkien somehow met some people in a situation similar to the episode “Point of No Return” and got his ideas from them?

~If Tolkien had not written The Lord of the Rings, like Carter indicated with that 'classic interpretation of Dwarves' line, there are still plenty of other works with Dwarves, Elves, and such. Thus, it’s possible that the Tau’ri might form some misconceptions based on said other works – and now I’m amused by the thought of them expecting ‘Santa’s Elves’ type Elves xd.png.


I do have another question as well. Even if Tolkien’s works didn’t exist, would Teal’c recognize Sauron’s name and have some knowledge about him? I seem to recall there being a couple times when he got some information from ‘Junior’…though I’m not positive. unsure.gif ))


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((OOC: I can accept fudging on Tolkien's lifespan but have a hard time thinking the early Stargate program would have put him on this planet enough to inform his stories to the level of detail that roleplayers would be putting into roleplaying Middle Earth people.


Having the rp be in a "non-Tolkien's-writings-about-Middle-Earth" alternate universe takes care of that, and the issue of lack of Jaffa/Goa'uld in Tolkien's writings, and also timeline issues like - with anyone that we meet from the books we would have to make to sure that they would have been alive at the time of the early Stargate program.


As starphyre says, there's other stuff out there; I've already researched, and am planning to look through Wikipedia some more as necessary, to inform Daniel's reactions, regardless of what is decided about the Tolkien issue. (For example since the "Santa's elves" type elf came about much later than other forms (and far later than the Goa'uld would be taking people from Earth if I remember at all) I doubt Daniel would expect elves here to look like those.)


It's also an option to assume if needed that someone (maybe Tokien), did write some things, influenced by older myth/legend, that worked to popularize some of the old ideas behind Dwarves, Elves, etc. That would provide a match-up between popular ideas, nowadays, and the people far in the past that the Goa'uld took from Earth and repopulated on another planet.))

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[i can go with that - if I remember correctly Elves and Dwarves existed in Norse mythology. Which Daniel would be more familiar with anyway.


I'd be happy to say Tolkien took his inspiration from Norse Myth and added his own twists (hobbits being his own creation for example).


Middle-Earth could then be an amalgamation of some of the Nine Worlds?


As for Teal'c and Sauron. He'll know Sauron as an outcast from the System Lords - one that was presumed to have been killed. So any knowledge he has would be out of date (sort of). That would also blend in with Middle Earth's mythology smile.gif]

Edited by Takhesis

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((OOC: Sorry, no post (I've been feeling worse than normal lately) - I hope to post something soon! So that stuff can move on without my post I'll explain what I was thinking of having Daniel do:


- reflect on the origins of things, like we talked about

- say they didn't serve anybody, and probably (due to the looks at Teal'c) talk about Teal'c a bit (probably don't want to get into the "false god" thing right now but maybe talk about how Teal'c has renounced who he used to serve

- introduce Teal'c, and introduce Jack as the expert in battles, probably suggesting that maybe Brod and Jack can talk about what went down, and introduce Sam and Alex also


Goa'ulded Sauron sounds pretty terrifying - I'm excited about all the stuff we've been talking about!))

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[okies - hope this is what you had in mind.]


Elves? Wonder if they mean Aelfar? And if they do - why would those inform others of our coming?


Daniel noticed Brod's gaze going to Teal'c. As he mused the potential cultural customs of this world and the potential allies, he took a quick glance back: he could see the Jaffa helping Sam with her bag so at least he wasn't looking menacing. Well any more menacing than normal.


The two riders had rejoined the main force as he continued speaking.


"We don't serve anyone - unless you count our government back home." Daniel then gestured to Teal'c.


"Teal'c there is a political refugee after denouncing his former master." Teal'c inclined his head in acknowledgment of Daniel's words.


He then proceeded to introduce the rest of the team. "Major Sam Carter, Dr Alex Honami and Colonel Jack O'Neill. Jack's our combat expert." A thought occurred to him. "Since it seems we've ended up in the middle of something, perhaps he could exchange tactical observations with you?"




The Rohirrim Commander caught the last words and seemed to give them some thought.


Eretta however spoke up first. "A way to prevent those that escaped would be more useful."


[is giving Brod time to react - I'd think he'd be more careful/cautious in his words than Eretta is]

Edited by Takhesis

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((Sorry for going sort of MIA here… I’m definitely still here, but things got a little hectic on me this past week sad.gif. I’ll try my darned-all best to get a post in tomorrow (Thursday) evening. ))

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((Okay, so it wasn't Thursday, sorry. Quick question though: You mentioned ‘Aelfar’ and I understand that’s basically another term for Elf, but is it also applied to a race in the Stargate universe? I tried to do a search, but couldn’t find anything… Also, I’m guessing that Erretta and her commander dismounted?))


At Sam’s comment about the bolt, Alex gave her a sort of ‘fair enough’ nod and then looked over to Daniel as she did. It was impossible for him not to notice the tension in the person Daniel was talking to and he followed that person’s gaze to Teal’c. Not good, he thought but, fortunately, Carter seemed to be doing something about that already, so he looked back to Daniel to try to gauge both the shorter person’s reaction and the reactions of the taller people who had ridden up as well. Though he was still curious about the bolt, he knew wasn’t right time so he took his own backpack off and carefully tucked the bolt in where it wouldn’t cause any troubles. Once his pack was back on his back, he approached Daniel in time to nod politely as his name was said.


As Daniel continued to speak, Alex discretely studied the people before them and part of him couldn’t help but feel like they’d somehow stumbled into one of those LARPing things he’d heard about. Pushing that ridiculous thought aside, he was a little surprised when Daniel was answered. What surprised him was not so much that the speaker was a female, but rather that she seemed to be quite young.



When the dark-skinned man helped the wounded woman with her pack, Brod remained suspicious but his glare softened a little for he knew that the servant’s of the Enemy would never assist each other in such a manner. However, his expression then revealed his surprise when Daniel mentioned that the one named Teal’c had, in fact, denounced his master and he looked to Teal’c in wonder. He had never heard of anyone leaving the Enemy’s service and surviving to tell the tale.


Raising a brow at the Rohirrim lass’s comment, Brod shook his head as he said, “Sadly, there is little more that can be done about that apart from getting on the move before they return with greater numbers.” He then looked to the Rohirrim commander as he continued, “However, if this Teal’c was a servant of the Enemy, he may possess information that would be invaluable in the war. Perhaps that is the reason they attacked…” he briefly glanced to Daniel and Alex, “well, one of the reasons. I say we bring these strangers to the Elves.” He knew that such a decision was not his alone to make, so we was still looking to the Rohirrim commander as he added, “What say you?”


((Not giving your name and then talking about people that are right in front of you…? Really Brod? Don’t be rude.))

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[Yep they did dismount. And Aelfar is just the Norse term for Elf - Daniel is just mentally trying to form a picture of them and their customs - and the Norse Aelfar were isolationist and stayed out of the way (as much as they could anyway).]


The Rohirrim Commander had been considering the whole situation while Brod had done the main bulk of the speaking for their group.


He agreed with there being a few reasons for the Enemy to attack - given the new information of Teal'c's status.


"I believe that would be a fine idea. It would at the very least remove us from this location before a larger force appears." He took a quick look around the combined forces - including SG-1 in the sweep. "We will be moving at a slower pace with the few injured that remain. The Elves do have good healers so it would serve a dual purpose."


[i've assumed the worst injuries have already been evacuated - and its just the walking wounded that are left.]


Carter had noticed the slight easing of tension in Brod as Teal'c was aiding her, she also didn't miss the fact that he hadn't introduced anyone on their side either.


It seemed that any trust wasn't complete by any means, and it seemed their resident Jaffa might be the key to it. She could only speculate on that, based on observations.


Guess we'll have to earn it. Or at least keep them from being too suspicious of Teal'c. She could only hope that Daniel was able to keep the peace - since diplomacy wasn't exactly her forte; though she was probably still better at it than O'Neill was.


So keep O'Neill and Teal'c out of trouble.... why do I suspect I'll have my work cut out?


[Giving Alex/Brod reaction time before O'Neill opens his mouth in a less than diplomatic way to the apparent rudeness. Carter may have to step on his foot.... or interrupt him.... or apologise for him afterwards.]

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Daniel knew that tactically, if a larger force were on its way the best thing to do would be not separate themselves from the gate. In fact, they should be seriously considering going home after the unexpected combat. But what was in the front of Daniel's mind - aside from his worry about those injured from the combat - was excitement to see more of this planet and its peoples, as well as a sense of responsibility to the people they may inadvertently have brought into battle. So Daniel felt reluctant to leave, and hoped that Jack would agree to make a quick call home to ask Hammond's permission to stay.


Daniel gave an answer that he hoped conveyed agreement with the plan yet also a lack of firm commitment to it, in case Jack decided to leave. "We'd love to see more of your world and meet the Elves. We would have to make very quick arrangements first." Then he turned to Jack to speak with him privately while still keeping his posture as open towards the native people as possible.


He spoke quickly: "Jack, they seem to recognize Apophis's symbol as significant and I think they're of a completely different origin than anyone we've encountered before - I think we could learn a lot from them."

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Jack O'Neill turned his gaze towards Daniel as the archaeologist seemed to be seriously considering the option of joining the other group.


He had noticed Brod's suspicion/interest in Teal'c, but since Carter seemed to have that covered he hadn't felt the need to intervene - yet.


He agreed with the initial idea,


"They do seem to recognise a Jaffa's symbol - as for learning off them...." he paused, knowing Daniel wouldn't like what he was going to say next, "... that seems unlikely, since they haven't exactly been open with simple things. Such as - oh I don't know - their names."


Some of his trademark sarcasm leaked out at the last part. Mainly to annoy Daniel, but the fact was true. They hadn't given their names in return for Daniel's introductions.


"Seems like a very basic thing to omit to me."


Daniel could still tell he was tempted to find out what they knew - if only to see if they were a risk to Teal'c and his team. And Jack was the paranoid one - he didn't trust anything easily, and he would say it was with good cause.


He could list many reasons why trusting the locals or following their customs was a bad plan. One - there were cultures that sold women, and there was no way he was going to let Carter out of his sight again. Two - Kynthia's cake, he got married and aged a lifetime in less than a day.


Though it looked like worry one was moot - the riders did seem comfortable with that female Archer - and she hadn't been told to keep quiet after outburst.


Jack looked over at the rest of the group to see what they thought of the whole idea.


[*sigh* another case of open mouth - insert foot for O'Neill.]

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((The 'turned to Jack to speak with him privately' part had me assuming that Daniel and Jack were talking quietly enough so that the Free People couldn't hear them?))


“Brod nodded to the Rohirrim commander’s assessment as he also looked around. “Agreed,” he said, but then Daniel spoke again and Brod once again raised a brow as he tried to figure out what he’d said to make it sound like not going with them was an option. Of course, he also knew the capabilities of the strangers’ weapons and rather preferred to not have to defend against them. Still, if Daniel was telling the truth about Teal’c, then they couldn’t let him leave.


When Daniel turned to confer with Jack, so too did Brod turn to confer with the Rohirrim commander and speaking so that the strangers wouldn’t hear he said, “We need to find out what this Teal’c knows, but if they refuse to stay… I do not know how to convince them without the threat of force but we are ill equipped to counter their weapons; at least not without a large loss of life. I admit I have had little dealings with the Race of Men…What would you suggest?” He was aware that the lass was near enough to hear what he’d said, but he figured that since the commander hadn’t sent her away, then she was ranked high enough to take part of these discussions.


At the outset of the mission, Alex had intended to do more observing than anything else and leave the decisions to the experience of the others. However, when Jack looked like he wanted to know what he was thinking, he found himself saying, “I’m with Daniel on this.” He had listened to the conversation between Daniel and the – dare he say – Dwarf, and then between Daniel and Jack, and though he was still shaken from the battle and wasn’t eager to go through anything like that again, he was even more intrigued by these people and he knew that if they left now the likelihood that they’d come back was rather slim.

Edited by starphyre77

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((OOC: re: "so that the Free People couldn't hear them" - Yes, that was Daniel's intention.))


As he waited for Jack to respond, Daniel was a bit impressed by Alex speaking up, having gotten that balance back so soon after the combat.

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[ummm Jack had already answered Daniel - at least in part.]


Eretta considered the situation, they couldn't afford to let any source of information get away but the strangers seemed more than capable of defending themselves.


She flicked her eyes over SG-1, while debating how much she could say in front of the Commander.


"Three warriors, a diplomat and one medic...." Eretta observed, "It would depend on how their social rankings are organised how to approach them if they refuse." She bit her lip slightly while considering possibilities.


The Commander picked up the gist of Eeretta's musings, "Warriors among the Rohirrim are considered higher in status than those who do not fight, but the Kingdom of Gondor is purely based on Bloodlines. We would have to know which system these strangers use."


He frowned slightly, as he mentally reviewed the observations he had during the ride back.


"A slight problem - but it seems that the female of the group is higher in status than at least two of the others... Plus it seems that O'Neill is looking to her for guidance...."


[Lol for misconceptions - and lets add to it]


Carter caught O'Neill's questing look. She did appreciate the fact that he allowed his team to give their input - and actually listened to it.


"We should at least return the MALP as scheduled. We can ask the General then." She then turned to Daniel,


"Though the lack of names does seem odd." She reiterated the Colonel's concerns though in a softer tone than O'Neill's often abrasive sarcasm that Daniel had gotten used to filtering out.




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[lol okies - I just thought that Daniel might have something to say about the lack of introductions. Like calling Jack on his bluntness]


Teal'c just gave one of his raised eyebrows at O'Neill and remained silent. Well two want to go, one will go with the majority and my 2IC seems to be on the fence. He mentally shrugged as he weighed up the options - he didn't like the odds if the group turned against them - especially with Carter's arm injury.


He wouldn't call her on it, but he had noticed her uncomfortable shift during the last part of the fire fight.


He nodded once, "We should at least find out who 'the Enemy' that they keep referring to is." He turned to Daniel, "We'll go with them - the MALP needs to be returned to base we can inform them then."




The MALP that they were referring to - was however the other side of the DHD. Which meant one of them would have to pass close to the other group to dial up and for the on-board remote to be switched to handheld control.


The SGC maintained MALP override control until the off-world team could perform the switchover. Something about a security protocol or some such red tape.


Of course, Carter could always just record a message for the MALP to relay to the SGC if they didn't make a scheduled contact.


[Which would be more likely - Brod and the others allowing them to activate the gate or just watch Carter fiddle with and talk to a strange machine thing?]

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((I’d think that fiddling with the ‘strange thing’ would be better received than activating the gate…Of course, activating the gate might make for some interesting RPing but would also add to the tension between the groups… Decisions, decisions. Either way works equally well for me, so whatever you guys decide. wink.gif ))


When the matter of names was brought up again, Alex’s mind went to some of his earlier research. He was relieved when Jack said they’d be staying on the planet, and hoping to help smooth things over a little, he said, “Actually, the lack of names might not be all that odd. There are some ancient cultures that believed that names held power, and that giving someone your name could be dangerous.” Then, as if to contradict himself, he added, “Of course, that may not quite fit here since they asked for our names…Maybe they only give names if asked?”


Brod watched the strangers while listening to the two Rohirrim. Nodding at their assessment, he added his own observations. “The diplomat and one warrior only have one name while the others have three. Strange though those names are would having more names indicate higher status? Also, of those with three names, the woman was introduced first.” All indications did seem to point this Carter woman being their leader, and though Brod was confused by that, he also wasn’t sure if that was normal for the Race of Men.


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[Hmmm eeny meeny miny mo..... and I just assumed the order of introductions based on where they were standing - Teal'c being next to Carter, then Alex then O'Neill tongue.gif But it does make for some interesting misconceptions.... and I doubt Carter will correct them on that one xd.png]



"If they use names instead of titles - then it would make sense that the more names one has the higher in rank they are." The Rohirrim commander mused to Brod's noting of the number of names and their order of introduction.


"Without any other information, we will have to assume that she is their leader." The Rohirrim Commander wasn't as uncomfortable with the idea as Brod - if only because of the Shield Maidens that existed within the Horse Lords society. And if she could fight - she may be the strangers equivalent of a Shield Maiden.


Though it wasn't often that a Shield Maiden would be the highest ranking warrior present. That was the only thing that gave him pause.


Eretta seemed the happiest out of the three with that conclusion. "I'm thinking she's similar in status to a Shield Maiden of the Mark. If that's the case, then I may have an idea of how to convince them if they do refuse...." A true Shield Maiden could never refuse a request from a comrade in arms....


She paused waiting for permission to continue, since both the Commander and Brod technically outranked her. It would also provide an opening if Brod hadn't heard of the term before.



[is assuming this is coinciding with Alex's musing about the reason behind the lack of names.]

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((To be honest, Alex’s comment was pretty much just nervous rambling and I wasn’t really going anywhere with it, so… sure xd.png.))


Brod interpreted the commander’s and scout’s calm acceptance of a woman leader as meaning that it wasn’t all that unusual for the Race of Men. He quite frankly couldn’t fathom why the Race of Men would endanger their women by sending them to war, but he knew it wasn’t his place to judge their customs. He gave the lass’s words some thought and since it had been established that the woman was the stranger’s leader, he could somewhat see the merit in her words. Still, he would prefer to have at least some understanding of what was going on so he asked, “What is a ‘Shield Maiden’ and why, and how, would her being one enable you to convince them to stay?”


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Taking Brod's question as well as the lack of any other signal from the Commander as permission to continue, Eretta explained;


"Among the Rohirrim, a Shield Maiden is a female who has pledged herself to the path of a warrior. The pledge is taken in a ceremony alongside other novices and in front of their teachers."


Eretta didn't go into too much detail about the ceremony and oath, since it wasn't strictly part of the answer.


"Shield Maidens take their word seriously, and the training forges strong bonds between them. A Blood-bond, if you will. They never turn their back on each other or their comrades." She said, referring to the fact that they would fight alongside the males too. "They also never back down from a challenge."


That should cover the why... as to how it would help.


"I could make an appeal on those principles. While I'm not a Shield Maiden myself - a formal request to be mentored would be hard to ignore." Of course, the idea did hinge on the fact the strangers would be as honourable as their people were and had the same set of principles.


[Note, Eretta wants to be a Shield Maiden... so she's viewing them through the proverbial rose-tinted lenses. Though thinking of them as sort of Knights/Paladins is reasonably accurate.... They are protectors more than fighters however.]

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((OOC: I'm here but I've been so sleep deprived lately, sorry all - posts from me could be short and/or not in-character until health stuff gets a bit better and it's easier for me to think.))



Daniel nodded at Alex, agreeing with his statements about names. Then looking from the group of strangers back to Jack, Daniel gave a little shrug as if to say "well, we'll see...!"


Deciding that while Jack or Sam took care of sending back the MALP he'd better update their hosts, he stepped a bit towards them again, but not enough to intrude into their conversation. When it was appropriate for him to speak, he'd explain that they were sending their equipment home and would be able to join them on their journey to see the others as soon as the Stargate deactivated.

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[that's ok - hope you get better soon diaveborn. Now - does Jack drive the MALP... or does Sam pre-empt him? Though she may let him drive - keep him out of trouble for a bit lol.]

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((Like Takhesis said, that’s quite all right, and I also hope you feel better soon diaveborn. As for who drives the MALP…not meaning to be difficult, but I don’t know how to answer that question xd.png, so I guess whichever you feel best.))


Though Alex had spoken for staying on the planet, as he followed Daniel’s look to the natives he couldn’t help but feel a little bit of doubt. Moving forward that little bit with Daniel, he knew there would be a moment before the other group responded to them. Keeping his voice low, he barely moved his lips as he took that opportunity to quietly ask, “Are we sure this is the right choice?” While the words might have indicated doubt and possibly regret, his tone conveyed that he was only looking for reassurance to calm his nervousness.


As the Rohirrim explained what a Shield Maiden was, Brod started to think that he understood a little. By the sounds of it, these women soldiers were the exception not the norm, and they fought because they chose to not because they were expected to. That fact actually did make sense to him, for though he would prefer not to see a Dwarf-woman in such a dangerous role, he certainly wouldn’t be crazy enough to try to tell one she couldn’t if she chose to.


When the young woman had finished speaking, Brod’s gaze swept over the strangers – lingering briefly on Carter – as he somewhat absently said, “I see…” Noticing Daniel’s and Alex’s movements, he turned back to the Rohirrim commander as he said, “It would seem they have made a decision…If what the lass said holds true with these strangers, her presence may be the key to peaceful relations. Can she be spared from her scouting duties to join us in escorting them to the Elves?” Based on what she’d said, he was assuming that her role in the Rohirrim company was no different from a male scout.


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