The Thread formerly known as Rare-For-Common

[dustpuppy]

Topics like the trading inflation thread and the breeding oath made me come up with this.

 

Again and again people get frustrated because the only way to obtain prize dragons or other rares seems to be to already have them, because most trades ask for "blood swap only". Of course I don't want to tell anyone what to do with their dragons. But there are already people who try to make their rares available to all, and why not promote this and make it even more cool?

 

Please note:

The idea is to make people who're considering to accept a common or uncommon dragon for their rare feel more confident about it. It is NOT to make people accept dragons they don't want or need.

 

The Rare-For-Common Oath

 

I, [name], acknowledge that blood swaps are an useful and acceptable means of continuing lineages. But as they result in rares being passed around only among those who already have rares, I hereby pledge to keep blood swaps or rare-for-rare trading to a minimum. I will not reject offers of common dragons for the sole reason that they are common. If I like a common dragon, it is as valuable as a rare to me.

 

Comments? Ideas? Maybe someone talented would like to make a banner to put in signatures?

 

Edit: Lots of good things have been pointed out and I guess the thread title gives the wrong impression, so... if people like to keep this going maybe we will come up with a better name.

Edited March 26, 2013 by dustpuppy

[brairtrainer]

I like this oath, especially since it still allows for bloodswaps, it just states that you swear to allow common trades as well. And with that said (despite the fact I don't have many rares)

 

I, brairtrainer, acknowledge that blood swaps are an useful and acceptable means of continuing lineages. But as they result in rares being passed around only among those who already have rares, I hereby pledge to keep blood swaps or rare-for-rare trading to a minimum. I will not reject offers of common dragons for the sole reason that they are common. If I like a common dragon, it is as valuable as a rare to me.

 

If I like a lineage the dragon to me tends to be worth more than a gold.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

I, too, also like this oath. I shall not be afraid to accept a common for my rare, including if that person does not have a rare yet. So, without futher aidu...

 

I, Raptor of Dragons, acknowledge that blood swaps are an useful and acceptable means of continuing lineages. But as they result in rares being passed around only among those who already have rares, I hereby pledge to keep blood swaps or rare-for-rare trading to a minimum. I will not reject offers of common dragons for the sole reason that they are common. If I like a common dragon, it is as valuable as a rare to me.

 

 

[dustpuppy]

If I like a lineage the dragon to me tends to be worth more than a gold.

Exactly! I just got this for one of my Silvers yesterday.

 

And of course...

 

I, dustpuppy, acknowledge that blood swaps are an useful and acceptable means of continuing lineages. But as they result in rares being passed around only among those who already have rares, I hereby pledge to keep blood swaps or rare-for-rare trading to a minimum. I will not reject offers of common dragons for the sole reason that they are common. If I like a common dragon, it is as valuable as a rare to me.

[Vaati]

 

I, Vaati, acknowledge that blood swaps are an useful and acceptable means of continuing lineages. But as they result in rares being passed around only among those who already have rares, I hereby pledge to keep blood swaps or rare-for-rare trading to a minimum. I will not reject offers of common dragons for the sole reason that they are common. If I like a common dragon, it is as valuable as a rare to me.

 

~

I could make some banners c:

[tjekan]

If people would offer me GOOD commons for a rare, I'd be thrilled. I ask for checkerboards or EG PB's on most of my trade posts. But unless I'm trading something *really* amazing, the only commons I usually get offered are CB commons (which I already have a gazillion of) and messy-lineaged low-time eggs which someone clearly just grabbed off the AP.

 

I think this oath is nice in principle, but in practice, the number of offers we're getting on ANY non-shimmer trade these days is so low that suggesting to keep any particular type of trading to a minimum doesn't seem like a good idea. I'm so happy any time I get an actual useful offer on one of my trades that there really is no way I'm going to consider discarding it because it's rare. And I'd be disappointed if somebody else declined a trade offer of mine which they otherwise would have liked just because they felt obligated to give first preference to a more common offer.

 

(Also, is your definition of "rare" the same as the rare trading thread? I mean, are you including blusangs and blacks and 5th-gen tinsels in the "discouraged" category, or just shimmers and CB metals?)

Edited March 26, 2013 by tjekan

[dustpuppy]

(Also, is your definition of "rare" the same as the rare trading thread? I mean, are you including blusangs and blacks and 5th-gen tinsels in the "discouraged" category, or just shimmers and CB metals?)

I tried not to define it too much as what is considered rare or not can vary, I'd base it on what they are categorised as on the DC wiki and maybe how sought after they are at the time.

 

You're making a good point about getting few offers, but I think (hope!) people would offer more if they didn't think "it will be rejected anyway so why bother".

 

No one should feel obligated to take something they like less, of course!

It's just a little voluntary reminder for oneself "hey, I decide what is valuable, I won't actually lose anything if I don't ask for offers of equal rarity only".

[klinneah]

I, klinneah, acknowledge that blood swaps are an useful and acceptable means of continuing lineages. But as they result in rares being passed around only among those who already have rares, I hereby pledge to keep blood swaps or rare-for-rare trading to a minimum. I will not reject offers of common dragons for the sole reason that they are common. If I like a common dragon, it is as valuable as a rare to me.

 

~*~

I don't really trade rares anyway so it's not a big deal to me. But I do enjoy common hatchlings just as much as silvers golds and prizes.

[Fiona]

I voted no here. You've asked for an explanation, and while I don't feel I have to give one, I will in this case.

 

I don't want constraints put on what I feel I can ask for or accept when offering rares. If I "give an oath" I'm going to feel constrained. My dragons are mine, and their eggs are worth to me what I decide they are worth.

 

If you were to ask people what they had to trade me for one of the 2nd gens from my spriter's alt Shadows, you're going to get answers everywhere from an ND or CB gold to "trade? It was a present." More often than not when I offer one for trade it's because I need something in particular, so that's what I ask for. I'm not going to change that behavior based on an oath. That same behavior would apply to any rare I've bred or caught.

 

 

 

So, while in general I agree that people shouldn't just ask for rares for their rares, I think people also should feel free to ask what they want.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

So, while in general I agree that people shouldn't just ask for rares for their rares, I think people also should feel free to ask what they want.

You have a point there Fiona, but what if someone has no rares to trade and they see a Shimmer scale up for a trade...it wouldn't be fair for people who don't have a shimmerscale and they see one and all they have to offer is a vampire or an inbreed gold. I know I have the problem of getting a shimmerscale, I have a vamp that was suppose to be a shimmerscale, but the person bit it before lottoing it off. I managed to get it and if it was still a shimmerscale, I would have bred it for the people who don't have a shimmerscale. Or like a silver or a gold, I don't need anymore of those and so I am free to trade the eggs for commons.

[Dubious]

I am not quite following this...you want people with rares and shimmerscales to take an oath to accept mainly commons for them? (keeping trades for other rares to a minimum)....

 

Seems pretty silly for people without rares and shimmers to take an oath to mainly trade them for commons. So this can only be aimed at those that have rares.

 

I voted no. I play the game without being told how and what I 'should' trade for. I am sorry that some folks cannot get rares etc...but I will not be bullied/pressured/guilted into trading off my shimmers and rares for things that I can get so easily myself and that I don't want, especially when I worked so hard to get those rares in the first place.

 

I see the intention here is to make people feel better about not getting rares and kudos for the intention, but the way it is implemented comes off as pressuring those who have into giving those who don't, what they want.

 

You have a point there Fiona, but what if someone has no rares to trade and they see a Shimmer scale up for a trade...it wouldn't be fair for people who don't have a shimmerscale and they see one and all they have to offer is a vampire or an inbreed gold.

 

Trading is about getting the dragon you want in exchange for what you are offering. 'Fair' doesn't come into it at all. It would hardly be 'fair' to the trader if they felt pressured to accept what they didn't want for their trade. People ask for what they want.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Dubious

[lola92]

I agree with Fiona BlueFire.

I ask for things I want, need, or like. I have taken several common inbred hatchlings for a rare before. It all depends on what I want or am looking for at the time.

 

I am not going to pledge that I will give away my rares for commons more than asking for rares.

 

I also do the glomp gifting, gifting tree, and others randomly. I do not do it all the time because then others will not see my dragons as something worth trading for as they can wait long enough and just get one as a gift.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Well, I said my piece, and that's all i have to say about that

[TheGrox]

I agree with Fiona and Dubious. ^^ I don't want such constraints to be put on my trading, to feel at I must accept commons. I can see why you've had this idea, but I'm not sure how well it will work in practice.

[Delphinia]

I voted 'no' on this. People should be able to trade for what they want and not feel bad about it. Let me first specify that I'm saying this as someone with no CB Metals, no NDs and no Shimmers. I'll come back to that Shimmer part in a bit...

 

I think you're discounting that there are trades for people out there with none of these things. You may notice that I have quite a few nice tinsels. I worked my way up with those since I first joined. I got probably my best and (until a few days ago) lowest gen tinsel by trading a bunch of CB common hatchies for it. I just wrote the person and asked and they gladly accepted IOUs for all the hatchies. I also did a trade for a 3rd gen Shimmer (which hasn't yet been bred) the same way. When I am trading off tinsels or trios I always check the eggs/hatchies I am being offered, as well as the person offering. I frequently trade these things for commons or things with neat lineages and sometimes I get the occasional swap.

 

I never feel as if the trading community is out to get me with bad trades. I win some, I lose some. That's all there is to it.

[Juujinx]

I also gotta say that I don't want to limit myself. Continuing lineages are my priority and the reason why I was on hiatus for so long during the drought. If what I need is a common or a rare, then I'll try to trade up or down to find what I need. I've also gifted plenty or taken promises from people who wanted one of my rare lineages but couldn't pay. Of course, that's also bit me plenty in those promises never being fulfilled, but that was my choice to take.

 

I understand the frustration right now, though, but I doubt something like this will make a huge difference. When talking about shimmers, even having one or two CB metals is kind of considered pocket change.

[Forest]

So I did a quick search, and there are only two other "oath" threads on the forums, and this one seems to be a little more harsh and exclusive than the other two. The Single Scroll Oath makes sense because it has to do with the ToS, and the Breeding Oath is generally accepted because inbreeding is generally not desired (unless you are doing a cool lineage with it), and it is something anyone can participate in, not just people who have rare dragons.

Anyway, this one just feels like an attack on people who have rares to me, to put it bluntly, so I voted no.

[Troubletail]

I voted 'other'; I think that the oath is an okay idea but that having a poll over it is kind of nonsensical. 'Good idea' or 'bad idea' in this context isn't something that can be determined with numbers since it's heavily subjective and dependent on one's personal playstyle.

 

What I really don't understand here is why people are treating this as a constraint on their play- there's no obligation to take this oath, nor, as far as I can tell, is there even any social pressure to do so. It even says in the initial post "It is NOT to make people accept dragons they don't want or need." No one is asking you to play or trade any differently. All they're doing is trying to set up a way to organize players who are already willing to make 'unequal' trades so that they can find each other and/or be found by others more easily.

 

If you're not interested, you can just close out the tab on your browser and go about your business without this having any effect on you beyond wasting a minute or so of your time reading these posts. Even if some users start preferentially trading with people who have taken this oath, it's still unlikely to do you any harm because the majority of people trying to trade commons or uncommons for rares are probably going to be the people who couldn't offer anything up to your standards to begin with.

 

 

Personally, I like the idea. It may not gain much traction, but I think it's a nice gesture. Also, supporting the subjective valuation of trades based on individual likes and dislikes may help not only the people who can't make 'perfect' trades but also those who don't have 'perfect' offers. As a newbie who was lucky enough to snag a gold egg from the AP recently, I would like to maybe 'share the wealth' once it reaches adulthood, but since it's inbred I feel like no one will want it. With a badge or banner for something like this, though, I would feel more comfortable offering its offspring for people who might ordinarily not be able to get a gold at all and who'd be happy with a less conventionally valuable dragon, since I'm not necessarily asking for something widely 'valuable' in return.

[Juujinx]

If you're not interested, you can just close out the tab on your browser and go about your business without this having any effect on you beyond wasting a minute or so of your time reading these posts. Even if some users start preferentially trading with people who have taken this oath, it's still unlikely to do you any harm because the majority of people trying to trade commons or uncommons for rares are probably going to be the people who couldn't offer anything up to your standards to begin with.

I'm pretty sure people aren't coming into this thread just to attack it. I'm assuming that the OP wanted discussion, otherwise I'm not sure why they would prompt to know why people put down 'no' in the poll. So people are giving their reasons as the poll asks.

[tjekan]

It's just a little voluntary reminder for oneself "hey, I decide what is valuable, I won't actually lose anything if I don't ask for offers of equal rarity only".

I appreciate that sentiment, in theory.

 

In practice, though, there appears to be basically nobody out there interested in breeding pretty common lineages in exchange for "rare" dragons such as lineaged golds, 4th-gen tinsels, alt blacks, etc. I ask for them all the time, and nobody offers them. The only thing people really want to spend their time breeding and raising commons for is CB metals and shimmers (plus maybe a few very rare things I've never tried offering such as neglecteds or a holly IOU or a 2nd-gen tinsel.)

 

It's hard to see why I should feel obliged to trade a CB silver for commons when those same people won't even trade me commons for a 3rd-gen silver. If they don't think a 3rd-gen silver is worth their time (which is totally their right, by the way,) then how could they expect me to get excited about a CB purple egg?

[Vhale]

I like the intent. But my initial thought was that people won't abide by it. In the locked shimmer thread more than a few people posted before they got a shimmer, or before they first bred it, how they'd trade it for other than cb metals. But once the reality of trading set in, they did exactly the opposite. Part of the reason was the pressure to strike while the iron was hot. We had the metal boom, which wasn't going to last, for instance. So I suspect people will sign with good intentions but won't follow through for one reason or another.

[Troubletail]

I'm pretty sure people aren't coming into this thread just to attack it. I'm assuming that the OP wanted discussion, otherwise I'm not sure why they would prompt to know why people put down 'no' in the poll. So people are giving their reasons as the poll asks.

It wasn't so much that I felt anyone was 'attacking', per se, so much as a lot of the disagreements appeared to be coming from a standpoint of how this would negatively affect them if they signed it, while seeming to ignore the fact that participation would be completely voluntary.

 

"I wouldn't sign this" is a totally valid response and an important part of the discussion, but it's not at all the same as "no, this is a bad idea".

------------------------

 

On an unrelated note, I'm starting to wonder if the 'Rare for Common' phrasing is what's setting off some of that negative reaction. Maybe something like a 'Sentimental Value Oath'/'Personal Value Oath'/'Value is Subjective Oath'/etc instead?

[brairtrainer]

Popping back in here to agree with the sentiment of wanting 'good commons'. Although part of the reason I took the oath is because when I've seen an egg I wanted or an egg I needed for a lineage project I've been turned down for the commons I can provide, cb and lineage (most are evengen, some arrows, some(rarely) stairs and spirals.

 

Really I took it as an oath because I already try to do this.

[Dubious]

It wasn't so much that I felt anyone was 'attacking', per se, so much as a lot of the disagreements appeared to be coming from a standpoint of how this would negatively affect them if they signed it, while seeming to ignore the fact that participation would be completely voluntary. 

 

"I wouldn't sign this" is a totally valid response and an important part of the discussion, but it's not at all the same as "no, this is a bad idea".

The poll says...'No, because.....'

 

So people are answering that and giving their reasons why they voted no, exactly as the poll asks.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Dubious

[Bu-tan]

On an unrelated note, I'm starting to wonder if the 'Rare for Common' phrasing is what's setting off some of that negative reaction. Maybe something like a 'Sentimental Value Oath'/'Personal Value Oath'/'Value is Subjective Oath'/etc instead?

I was just thinking about this and I honestly think it's mostly the idea that they'd be taking an oath, voluntary mind you, to go for what most would feel is an unfair trade. It's kinda.....taboo, to a degree. Most people want, as per what I've noticed in the trade inflation thread, it to at least get back what they gave in relation to getting that higher end deal. So taking something they feel is soooooo much less then what they 'paid' is what is probably generating the bristles.

 

Not to mention, many have bluntly stated that they don't want to be told how to play. Seeing the 'oath' part, probably seems to many to be told how to play.

 

 

BUT, I personally feel that if it was not an 'oath', but more of a 'Common Dragon Association' type thing, then we might generate more possitive feedback. Make it more of a group/gathering thing where we're all in accordance that we'd be willing to take many commons in exchange for either lineaged or cb rares. I, myself, would be more willing to jump into something like that rather then an 'oath' type of deal.