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dustpuppy

The Thread formerly known as Rare-For-Common

This oath is a good idea  

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I voted yes but I do understand other's opinions. I normally gift all my rares and was going to gift my 2nd gen gold to someone without one but it grew up today :/ But some people are VERY greedy and only EVERY ask for certain things few people have for their benefit. See that is what bothers me.

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But some people are VERY greedy and only EVERY ask for certain things few people have for their benefit. See that is what bothers me.

This is what bothers me, this attitude is extremely rude. TJ has stated over and over that there is no such thing as hoarding or greed in this game. Everyone is free to play however they want. The whole object of the game is to get the dragons you want on your scroll and in order to do that it takes negotiation, planning and strategy and trading. The object is not to makes sure everyone else has everything they want, or you are being selfish or greedy.

 

This very attitude, prevalent on the forums during this Metal Boom has chased a lot of people away. I know many shimmer owners and good CB Metal catchers who won't even post about their success or share it because of this aggressive current attitude towards them. I am sorry but this 'oath' is the same thing. That is the objection people have to this oath, it puts in words this very attitude.

 

Calling others greedy just because they won't give you something you want for pretty much nothing is...rediculous and rude. This sort of attitude makes me not want to lotto or gift or share freely, if this is what people think of others who got lucky in this game.

Edited by Dubious

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Even if I am not really part of the group of people who drowns the trade threads with rares and would even profit from this, I do not agree.

 

Everyone should ask what they want or have use for. Of course it is depressing when you see lovely items that you can never get your fingers on due to the other person is asking for hilarious stuff, but still it is their right to do. ^^"

 

I randomly (well most often ^.~) ask for commons for my rares. But that has mostly to do with my obsession of a certain dragon breed so... cannot force everyone to do that. ^.~

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Even if I am not really part of the group of people who drowns the trade threads with rares and would even profit from this, I do not agree.

 

Everyone should ask what they want or have use for. Of course it is depressing when you see lovely items that you can never get your fingers on due to the other person is asking for hilarious stuff, but still it is their right to do. ^^"

 

I randomly (well most often ^.~) ask for commons for my rares. But that has mostly to do with my obsession of a certain dragon breed so... cannot force everyone to do that. ^.~

you're not forcing anyone to do anything. Its like the 'I'll name all my dragons oath' (it has a face it has a name).

 

People who want to take it can people who don't can just keep doing what they are doing.

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This is what bothers me, this attitude is extremely rude. TJ has stated over and over that there is no such thing as hoarding or greed in this game. Everyone is free to play however they want. The whole object of the game is to get the dragons you want on your scroll and in order to do that it takes negotiation, planning and strategy and trading. The object is not to makes sure everyone else has everything they want, or you are being selfish or greedy.

 

This very attitude, prevalent on the forums during this Metal Boom has chased a lot of people away. I know many shimmer owners and good CB Metal catchers who won't even post about their success or share it because of this aggressive current attitude towards them. I am sorry but this 'oath' is the same thing. That is the objection people have to this oath, it puts in words this very attitude.

 

Calling others greedy just because they won't give you something you want for pretty much nothing is...rediculous and rude. This sort of attitude makes me not want to lotto or gift or share freely, if this is what people think of others who got lucky in this game.

Ugh. Look I'm sorry as where I do understand why people do put trades up for very rare items. It's just some have the same items over and over and ask for the same thing over and over. Even though they've gotten what they wanted.

 

Now if it was out of love for that breed I could understand because I ADORE Tri-horns and thunders and I sometimes offer them (thunders) for other trios of a similar lineage. But I don't do that ALL the time.

 

The rares don't need to be shimmers or CB metals but even trios or Dino's. And how could I be greedy? I don't need much really I got help from an incredible person to obtain my first CB silver and CB gold. Now I'm set. I don't need more...and I'm on shimmer lists and I'm being pateint because those people were also very kind to me. I'm still very thankful for their generosity. I don't need more...and I don't plan to trade their eggs. Like most of my rares I plan to gift them. :3

 

And I'm not trying to force people to start trading their rares for commons I just think it's a bit unfair that people that don't have their luck and try to offer whatever they can and sometimes get denied harshly for trying their hardest.

 

Now, I have my ways of playing the game and people have their ways. Personal I take this oath because I already do it...but I gift instead.

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I was going to voice my opinion about why I voted "no" on the poll (because, yes, the poll does ask for it), but others such as Dubious and Fiona have voiced my opinion already.

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This is what bothers me, this attitude is extremely rude. TJ has stated over and over that there is no such thing as hoarding or greed in this game. Everyone is free to play however they want. The whole object of the game is to get the dragons you want on your scroll and in order to do that it takes negotiation, planning and strategy and trading. The object is not to makes sure everyone else has everything they want, or you are being selfish or greedy.

 

This very attitude, prevalent on the forums during this Metal Boom has chased a lot of people away. I know many shimmer owners and good CB Metal catchers who won't even post about their success or share it because of this aggressive current attitude towards them. I am sorry but this 'oath' is the same thing. That is the objection people have to this oath, it puts in words this very attitude.

 

Calling others greedy just because they won't give you something you want for pretty much nothing is...rediculous and rude. This sort of attitude makes me not want to lotto or gift or share freely, if this is what people think of others who got lucky in this game.

My thoughts exactly.

 

I'll trade for whatever I want and when I want. I don't really see the point of this "oath" - it just... feels a bit guilt-trippy to me.

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I agree with Fortytwo and Dubious. My first thoughts when I read this was that it's trying to guilt the people with rares into trading with people who don't have them, like Fortytwo stated.

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It's just some have the same items over and over and ask for the same thing over and over. Even though they've gotten what they wanted.

How do you know they have gotten what they wanted?

 

Now if it was out of love for that breed I could understand

 

And how do you know they aren't asking many times for the same thing because they love the breed? My user title isn't "I love shiny" for nothing, you know. I don't have the ability to catch multiple cb metals, but there's always room on my scroll for dragons that are shiny. It has nothing to do with how rare they are.

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Thinking about this, Perhaps it would work along the lines of, We'll raise 10 commons for every shiny owned? That helps the ratios and you can see on the person's scroll if they really do it or not.

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Now. See. After all this heated debate going on, this is is the reason I feel like it needs to be a group rather then a moral standing. I think that's what's really getting jimmies rustled on both sides. Taking an oath is like taking a moral obligation in which those that don't express interest nor want to take said oath end up looking like the bad guys. No one should feel that way.

 

If we just get a group formed, rather then a group taking an oath then we may not be hitting this roadblock. People who want commons for rares can do as they please, maybe even had a type of thread in the trade channel, perhaps, and those who just don't want to trade for what they don't feel is fair aren't hindered in their playstyle in the least.

 

No one should feel guilty for what they have. Everyone puts the same amount of effort into this game, be it working on rares or commons. Some are just more lucky then others. That is it. I'd like to have somewhere that I can get in touch with people who'd love to grab and raise multiple common hatchlings for uncommon/rare bred or caught eggs that I have rather then wading through the trading thread to find them.

 

I think Dust is really just trying to get all the people willing to trade commons for rarer breeds into one section so that we're easy to find, or so it feels to me. That's why I would really like to see this turn into a Common Dragon group type deal. Like. 'The Appeal of Commons' or something. I'm sure it can be hashed out if we can just figure out what we really wanna do. Some kind of little badge for our sigs that pretty much says 'Yes, I take commons for my rares'.

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I was just thinking about this and I honestly think it's mostly the idea that they'd be taking an oath, voluntary mind you, to go for what most would feel is an unfair trade. It's kinda.....taboo, to a degree. Most people want, as per what I've noticed in the trade inflation thread, it to at least get back what they gave in relation to getting that higher end deal. So taking something they feel is soooooo much less then what they 'paid' is what is probably generating the bristles.

 

Not to mention, many have bluntly stated that they don't want to be told how to play. Seeing the 'oath' part, probably seems to many to be told how to play.

 

 

BUT, I personally feel that if it was not an 'oath', but more of a 'Common Dragon Association' type thing, then we might generate more possitive feedback. Make it more of a group/gathering thing where we're all in accordance that we'd be willing to take many commons in exchange for either lineaged or cb rares. I, myself, would be more willing to jump into something like that rather then an 'oath' type of deal.

Thank you! biggrin.gif You said that so well.

I asked myself, why do we feel bad or even cheated if we don't get what other people have established to be the normal price? I love that this game doesn't tell me "this dragon is worth 10 gold coins and that one is worth 20 gold coins". So why do we accept so fast that we need to get the "full price" or else we are stupid and lose something.

 

I appreciate those taking the time to point out where I didn't think things through or didn't word it clearly (that's why I had the poll). At no point did I want to pressure anyone, or restrict anything, or ask people to restrict themselves. On the contrary!

I thought it would be less restrictive to remember you can ask whatever you want, not just something that's considered to be equal value. You'll get what you want and make someone happy as a bonus. unsure.gif

 

I apologise to those who feel pressured or guilt-tripped, that was NOT my intention at all. sad.gif

 

No one should feel guilty for what they have. [...]

 

I think Dust is really just trying to get all the people willing to trade commons for rarer breeds into one section so that we're easy to find, or so it feels to me. That's why I would really like to see this turn into a Common Dragon group type deal. Like. 'The Appeal of Commons' or something. I'm sure it can be hashed out if we can just figure out what we really wanna do. Some kind of little badge for our sigs that pretty much says 'Yes, I take commons for my rares'.

 

This! Thanks again. I should leave the talking to you really. xd.png

 

And no one should feel stupid or guilty for accepting something that's "worth less".

Edited by dustpuppy

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I feel like it needs to be a group rather then a moral standing.

 

Have those of you who think this is a good idea considered occasionally playing the League of Impatient Cave Cleaners 'game'? (I call it a game because it just doesn't feel like regular trading to me.) That's an optional way to go about this. I do it whenever I can and the feedback's always been positive, but I'm mildly perplexed it's such an extremely low-traffic project... I do see people making League-conform posts in other threads every once in a while, but it's a rare-ish occasion.

 

Dunno... maybe this isn't as on topic as it feels to me. laugh.gif But I can totally understand where this want-for-an-oath comes from and I think it's the same ballpark.

 

(If the OP disagrees, I'll remove this post again; I don't want to clutter this with irrelevancies. <3)

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Have those of you who think this is a good idea considered occasionally playing the League of Impatient Cave Cleaners 'game'? (I call it a game because it just doesn't feel like regular trading to me.) That's an optional way to go about this. I do it whenever I can and the feedback's always been positive, but I'm mildly perplexed it's such an extremely low-traffic project... I do see people making League-conform posts in other threads every once in a while, but it's a rare-ish occasion.

 

Dunno... maybe this isn't as on topic as it feels to me. laugh.gif But I can totally understand where this want-for-an-oath comes from and I think it's the same ballpark.

 

(If the OP disagrees, I'll remove this post again; I don't want to clutter this with irrelevancies. <3)

Welp, now that I know it's there. [sorry for not seeing it before, I tend to overlook a lot that is outside of just the overall 'dragon trading thread v2'. Ahaha.] I may start using it more when I just have random things I'd like to throw at people. My only current real scroll goal is to get more pebbles then the current record holder. <,< Heh. So for me, rares are just kinda.....meh. Pixels are pixels regardless of their rarity to me. So, I'm often gifting or trading for less then what my rares are worth already. [i think the only rare trade I've made lately has been for a 4th Gen Bronze Tin cause I thought it was pretty and I gave a 3rd gen silver x purple for it. Which, sadly, I traded just so I could breed and gift. xd.png]

 

Having somewhere that I know where I can trade for that is nice. Nicer still that I can put my own rules up on my trades.

 

I still think Dust was looking to start up a group of sorts where we're all listed in plain sight and can make sig badges and whatnot that link back to the list. Similar to the other threads of that type. A reference thread, so to speak. Something we're a part of rather then just dropping by randomly.

 

I love yer thread though and I will be using it soooon. Oh yes.

Edited by Bu-tan

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I can understand, and support the principles in this thread. Most of the time I've been on the side of it where all I had to offer were bred dragons of various lineages or IOUs of CBs. It is incredibly frustrating when all you see in the trading threads is people offering rares, commons and inbred metals for rare dragons. When the entire thread is filled with people asking for CB metals or Tinsels/Shimmers you lose hope that anyone will trade you a dragon of that type for the (perceived) little you have available.

 

I personally worry that some people may take this as an all or nothing - you either trade for CB rares, or you accept that offer of a couple of random CB hatchies and nothing else. This also leaves the people with the rarer dragons open to abuse from people who expect them to give them a rare dragon for some inbred dragons just because they said they would trade for commons. Most people aren't that daft, but unfortunately some are.

 

Any trade offer should have some inherent worth, even if that worth is not enough for the dragon you're aiming for. CB hatchies are good, inbred are not for most people.

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That is true. I, however, do not think anyone is safe from that kind of abuse though. Shimmer owners have had to get amazingly blunt that they are not taking requests or trades unless otherwise stated. Why? Because more likely then not they've gotten drowned in tons of different requests/begging/ect.

 

It's to be expected regardless of what you do. There is always going to be a handful of beggers or those that won't listen. Also, on the subject. I would assume that if you don't want inbred or lineaged dragons then even if you were to say you wanted commons then it's your right to still ask for CBs. For my pebbles, I don't really care. For a few others, I might, like my hellfires. [i know those are uncommon, but that's just the first breed that popped in my head as one of mine that I like mostly CBs of.]

 

And while I may be wanting to be part of a group that trades pretty things for what others think aren't so grand, that doesn't mean that I can't go make rare for rare trades. What I do with my trades is my business and no one should really judge my trade offers based on things I do elsewhere. That's the same with everyone else. I'm just open for more things then the pretty shinnies. I don't really see where we have to draw some kind of line in the sand.

 

Dragon worth is all subjective. :3

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By taking this oath, I feel I would then be honor bound to keep it, and it would mess up my whole idea for my scroll. I don't WANT any more commons, I have two of each, sometimes a bit more, but all is in keeping with my scroll plans. My scroll is not about quantity. It's about quality.

 

I understand the idea, and it maybe could be a good thing, but not for me.

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It's about quality.

Quality is also a subjective thing in this game. YOUR version of "quality" is not the same as everyone else's.

 

MY version of "quality" is the artwork. As an artist, I can't even begin to think of how that statement alone was a slap in the face to every spriter or artist that has put a lot of time and effort into making beautiful dragon sprites for even the common dragons on our scrolls. I'm sorry, but that's about the only thing that will ruffle me personally.

 

If you have scroll goals other then to do something like this. Then don't do it. That is your right. We went over that in the thread already and have been debating on it heavily on whether or not it should be an oath or not. I still personally feel like it should not.

Edited by Bu-tan

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Like. 'The Appeal of Commons' or something. I'm sure it can be hashed out if we can just figure out what we really wanna do. Some kind of little badge for our sigs that pretty much says 'Yes, I take commons for my rares'.

This, I could get behind. I definitely want common offers on my rares. (Usually only nicely-lineaged ones, though. I rarely need more CBs, and never want messy AP grabs. I already know where the AP is, LOL!)

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Quality is also a subjective thing in this game. YOUR version of "quality" is not the same as everyone else's.

 

MY version of "quality" is the artwork. As an artist, I can't even begin to think of how that statement alone was a slap in the face to every spriter or artist that has put a lot of time and effort into making beautiful dragon sprites for even the common dragons on our scrolls. I'm sorry, but that's about the only thing that will ruffle me personally.

I don't think she was talking about the artwork of the dragons on her scroll, but rather the lineages and amount of each dragon that she has on her scroll. At least, that is how I took it because my scroll goals are quality over quantity based as well. I'd rather have an even amount of each dragon on my scroll (unless I am doing some sort of breeding project or if I need them for their BSA) than just blindly collecting any dragon. In my eyes, I want to keeps the quality of my scroll as a whole as close to what I think it should be as possible... I hope that made sense.

Anyway, she didn't even mention the artwork of each dragon, so I don't know how you can equate it to being a slap in the face to all DC artists. O.o

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I usually ask for things that I need or want in my trades, but I have asked more than once for CB hatchies. Not long ago I traded a silver (I think it was 3rd gen) for just a CB ice, because I saw the scroll of the offerer and they didn't even have a bronze trophy yet.

 

I don't have a problem accepting commons now and then, so I don't see the need of taking an oath or compromise to do something I already do.

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I don't think she was talking about the artwork of the dragons on her scroll, but rather the lineages and amount of each dragon that she has on her scroll. At least, that is how I took it because my scroll goals are quality over quantity based as well. I'd rather have an even amount of each dragon on my scroll (unless I am doing some sort of breeding project or if I need them for their BSA) than just blindly collecting any dragon. In my eyes, I want to keeps the quality of my scroll as a whole as close to what I think it should be as possible... I hope that made sense.

Anyway, she didn't even mention the artwork of each dragon, so I don't know how you can equate it to being a slap in the face to all DC artists. O.o

Oh, it does. I understood that their version of quality was the lineages, ect, but also went on to say that most of that quality was not based around commons. Which, to me, says it's mostly rare lineages and rarity based. That's why I said quality is subjective just like dragon worth.

 

I guess I didn't come off very clear cause I got a little ruffled and gave a short reply. That's why I said that my version of quality is the artwork in general. Not really the lineages of things I have or their rarity. Rarity means nothing to me. I only keep up with it for trading purposes on stuff I like, like Tins.

 

So. In order for my version of a quality scroll, I collect mass amounts of dragons in the art styles that I like best. To me, that is great quality. To have a lot of great art to display. So, it just kinda came off like if it's not rare, then....it's not worth it? From an artistic point of view, that hurts, because I know that if I put that much time and effort into something like that only for it to not be considered 'quality' if it's not rare is kinda......yeah. :/ Feels like effort wasted, in a way.

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I can't imagine that any slight was meant to the artists. Some people find it more beautiful to display only a couple of each sprite, and other people find it more beautiful to have a wall of each one. It's just different artistic tastes, not a lack of appreciation for the art.

 

I agree with you that there are many different ways to interpret "quality," though, and no one person's definition of whose scroll is quality and whose is not is inherently any more important or more "correct" than anyone else's.

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Some people find it more beautiful to display only a couple of each sprite, and other people find it more beautiful to have a wall of each one. It's just different artistic tastes, not a lack of appreciation for the art.

This. This is what I was trying to get at.

 

Anyway, I would rather see this thread turned into something among the lines of a trading thread, like someone suggested earlier. Kinda like how there are specific threads for even gens or pure breds. Maybe this one could be like, "This is a thread were you can only offer rares, but you must ask for some sort of common in return."

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I don't think she was talking about the artwork of the dragons on her scroll, but rather the lineages and amount of each dragon that she has on her scroll. At least, that is how I took it because my scroll goals are quality over quantity based as well. I'd rather have an even amount of each dragon on my scroll (unless I am doing some sort of breeding project or if I need them for their BSA) than just blindly collecting any dragon. In my eyes, I want to keeps the quality of my scroll as a whole as close to what I think it should be as possible... I hope that made sense.

Anyway, she didn't even mention the artwork of each dragon, so I don't know how you can equate it to being a slap in the face to all DC artists. O.o

This. This is what I meant. And....wow, Butan. That's a heck of a leap to say I basically slapped every artist here in the face....just...wow. Before I retired, I was a Graphic Designer, as was my father. I respect all artists and artwork, and am an artist and musician myself.

Edited by Riverwillows

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