ANSWERED:New Member Group: Description Approvers

[CNR4806]

I'm still negative to have certain amount of approve/abstain to auto-approve the descriptions. Accidentally approvals may occur.

 

Having a group dedicating to descriptions is the best answer from my point of view. If people applied and finally got that position, then why can't you trust them? They have already showed their capable of doing it.

This. If description approvers are (finally) appointed by TJ, it means that TJ trust them to handle their job properly. I don't see much need for multi-approve from approvers or alternative approval methods.

 

And unlike current mods where description approval is a secondary duty, these guys will be dedicated to the task, which means that their time spent reviewing and approving descriptions would be much greater than what the current mods can realistically manage.

 

 

[Obscure_Trash]

I wanted to set an idea here: Why not treat Description Approvers like chat mods? No forum powers (which Thuban has stated is possible), then give them mod abilities inside the site? The one thing with this is that we don't know if there are other things in the actual site that mods do that conflict with having desctiption mods.

I just wanted to say that this idea doesn't effect/fix this 'problem':

 

Last I heard anything Sock mentioned that TJ said that the description's would need some recoding for him to set up description approval by a group that weren't mods.

 

(Not otherwise commenting on it, just pointing that out.)

[love_HP]

If we do get desc mods, it's going to be a good cycle: more people will join in writing and reviewing descriptions. Currently many don't have the motivation to participate in description-related activities because it's too slow to get anywhere..

Edited September 23, 2014 by love_HP

[Oasis]

I can't say how much I support this. I just went to check on my zombie today- the one I submitted a description for in November last year- and it is still undescribed. It doesn't even make sense to have the feature if we have to wait for so long, and it's unreasonable to expect like 6 people to go through the thousands of descriptions waiting on approval.

[CNR4806]

Bumping.

 

More than two years passed since this thread was created and I've yet to see any work done with the dreadful state of the description system.

Edited January 3, 2015 by CNR4806

[Fuzzbucket]

But there IS a big problem with it.

 

Get a new group. Fine - works for a while (as in last year or whenever it was that there was the mod blitz on descriptions and it all caught up.)

 

But in not very long let's face it - laziness, forgetfulness, sheer boredom will creep in and the group will fall by the wayside, and....

 

As a permanent mechanism I still think autoapprove will work better and more lastingly.

 

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=124081

[CNR4806]

But there IS a big problem with it.

 

Get a new group. Fine - works for a while (as in last year or whenever it was that there was the mod blitz on descriptions and it all caught up.)

 

But in not very long let's face it - laziness, forgetfulness, sheer boredom will creep in and the group will fall by the wayside, and....

 

As a permanent mechanism I still think autoapprove will work better and more lastingly.

 

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=124081

A "solution" that is in no way an effective quality control.

 

Let's face it, people are far too willing to hit "Approve" on descriptions that they do not actually read. I've been getting plenty of approves on descriptions that other people have caught serious errors on.

 

Sure, it will filter out the obvious "THIS IS MY FIRST DRAGON"-type of unfitting descriptions, but if you pad it long enough and make it look like a description? It will slip past the radar more than you can imagine.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

A "solution" that is in no way an effective quality control.

 

Let's face it, people are far too willing to hit "Approve" on descriptions that they do not actually read. I've been getting plenty of approves on descriptions that other people have caught serious errors on.

 

Sure, it will filter out the obvious "THIS IS MY FIRST DRAGON"-type of unfitting descriptions, but if you pad it long enough and make it look like a description? It will slip past the radar more than you can imagine.

I just don't think quality control is that important if 1) we have an easy on-site way to report them and 2) descriptions are more clearly distinguished from official site text.

 

As was said in the other thread, lots of other sites have places you can write descriptions for your critters without needing approval, and they run just fine.

[Fuzzbucket]

I just don't think quality control is that important if 1) we have an easy on-site way to report them and 2) descriptions are more clearly distinguished from official site text.

 

As was said in the other thread, lots of other sites have places you can write descriptions for your critters without needing approval, and they run just fine.

Quite. And actually - why does it MATTTER so much if there are speling and gramer errors etc ? now if there are obscenities and hate stuff - THEN the report button would be used.

 

Think of all the utterly rubbish books that are published - shouldn't they be allowed to be printed ?

[Lagie]

Quite. And actually - why does it MATTTER so much if there are speling and gramer errors etc ? now if there are obscenities and hate stuff - THEN the report button would be used.

 

Think of all the utterly rubbish books that are published - shouldn't they be allowed to be printed ?

Spelling and grammar definitely matter! Since the font etc for the description matches the site font, it wouldn't give a very good impression if suddenly the content fell to pieces with someone's badly-written description.

 

And sometimes, people get busy. It's not always laziness, forgetfulness or boredom.

[Fuzzbucket]

Spelling and grammar definitely matter! Since the font etc for the description matches the site font, it wouldn't give a very good impression if suddenly the content fell to pieces with someone's badly-written description.

 

And sometimes, people get busy.  It's not always laziness, forgetfulness or boredom.

Sure - LIFE gets in the way too. That's one of the big issues for poor Socky. But you cannot expect every last person on this site to turn out a professional quality description. The content won't FALL TO PIECES if someone posts something ungrammatical. And as all descriptions ARE unique, it will be pretty clear that they are by users - but if that is a HUGE problem, it can be MARKED as such somehow. There are quite a few pretty bad ones up there as it is...

 

As ADP says:

I just don't think quality control is that important if 1) we have an easy on-site way to report them and 2) descriptions are more clearly distinguished from official site text.

 

As was said in the other thread, lots of other sites have places you can write descriptions for your critters without needing approval, and they run just fine.

Edited January 4, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Spelling and grammar definitely matter! Since the font etc for the description matches the site font, it wouldn't give a very good impression if suddenly the content fell to pieces with someone's badly-written description.

 

And sometimes, people get busy. It's not always laziness, forgetfulness or boredom.

That could be fixed by making the separation between official text / user text more clearly defined, though--whether by a line between them, some type of "There are additional notes added here:" marker, different text, or some mixture of a few of those.

 

Also while mods do catch a lot of things, I've had descriptions approved with typos and other issues that I don't notice until later and then have to resubmit, so the current method isn't fail proof either.

 

Honestly my only reason to want to keep a description approval process at all is because I enjoy seeing people comment on my descriptions, but I think that could be handled by making descriptions more accessible (some type of random description shower for approved ones?) + maybe an opt-in in game messaging system so people could quickly be like "wow nice descrip." I know I've seen good ones that are already approved before, but am either too lazy to hunt people down on the forums to tell them or they don't have their scroll name on. ;o;

[Obscure_Trash]

I just don't think quality control is that important if 1) we have an easy on-site way to report them and 2) descriptions are more clearly distinguished from official site text.

 

As was said in the other thread, lots of other sites have places you can write descriptions for your critters without needing approval, and they run just fine.

I have to agree. Not that many people see descriptions especially as we don't have any way to see which dragons have descriptions or not without physically checking the page.

 

I know descriptions have more space, but we allow names on a trust basis. If there were a filter for some inappropriate words that didn't let you submit if it contained the words, perhaps that would help calm people?

And as already pointed out, mods are quite fallible. I miss stuff all the time. >_e I shared with #descripdoom one of the worst descriptions approved - and it had been I who had accidentally accepted it.

 

And a separator so user submitted descriptions didn't make the site look bad has been talked about earlier. ^^

 

I'd still be happy for descrip mods, but it's very easy to get burnt out. When Terri and I were first modded and then when I was re-activated, we bust through descriptions well and regularly. Ruby did the same thing when she was first modded. That dies out. There is more pressure when you're critiquing as a mod rather than a user.

Edited January 4, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Banyanpan]

I'd really, really like to see something that speeds up the description process. More mods, auto approve at a certain point, anything. I really like describing my dragon, but the months of waiting is just ridiculous.

I think there are enough trustworthy reviewers to make this possible, and that it would at least cut down on the horrible backlog. It wouldn't eliminate it, but it would be a start.

[LadyAmlaruil2]

Way - way back when... shortly after I joined DC, I started submitting my descriptions... a little while later, I became a mod, and although I wasn't one for long, I used to spend hours modding descriptions... At one point, I was going through a hundred or more in a single day - and the bottom line is that no one, no single group of 5 or 6 people, can possibly keep up with that pace for long. It isn't forgetfulness or laziness, it is just the sheer massive numbers!

 

Although after my experiences modding user descriptions, I am a little hesitant about the auto-approve concept... regardless of the rules, many people just don't follow them... however, with that said - I have a suggestion...

 

There is definitely a group of people who enjoy writing their own descriptions, and thus, have an inherent interest in seeing descriptions get approved... so - perhaps something like this... after a user has reached a certain number of "approved" descriptions, for their own dragons - they would then gain the ability to mod other users descriptions! This would allow "mods" that don't have to be specifically trained, that don't have to be selected by TJ, and hopefully, it would be an ever-growing population. This function would be self-fulfilling because each writer would know that they are helping other users get theirs approved, and thus in turn, getting their own approved! Talk about motivation - both to write and to review!

 

So - after say 50 approved descriptions on the scroll, that user gains access to "review" other descriptions. At this level, the description may need 3 "reviewers" okays - and then poof - it is approved. When a scroll reaches say - 100 approved descriptions, they gain access to "mod" descriptions, and their word alone gets a description approved. This kind of tiered system would motivate people both ways, and help to teach people what is and what isn't acceptable!

 

To be honest, although the idea of separating the user description somehow on the scroll is intriguing, I have to admit that I like the seamlessness of the current format! Maybe just a line would be good, to differentiate between site text and user text.

 

As for coding this, I have no idea if this would be a huge pain for TJ or not, but, the way I see it, it would be a one time pain - and then the system itself would grow with DC itself! And - it would eliminate all the weight put on the current forum mods, who already have a ton of stuff going on!!

 

Just a few thoughts and ideas, because I agree that it would be wonderful to implement some kind of different, and more effective, system for getting descriptions approved!

[Obscure_Trash]

So - after say 50 approved descriptions on the scroll, that user gains access to "review" other descriptions. At this level, the description may need 3 "reviewers" okays - and then poof - it is approved. When a scroll reaches say - 100 approved descriptions, they gain access to "mod" descriptions, and their word alone gets a description approved. This kind of tiered system would motivate people both ways, and help to teach people what is and what isn't acceptable!

My only thing with this is that not everyone applies for this kind of responsibility because they are uncomfortable with it. But since I jumped at the chance to apply for mod here, it's hard for me to say what others would think of this system. xP

[LadyAmlaruil2]

My only thing with this is that not everyone applies for this kind of responsibility because they are uncomfortable with it. But since I jumped at the chance to apply for mod here, it's hard for me to say what others would think of this system. xP

Totally agree... the nice thing would be though that even though someone has access, that doesn't mean they have to use it... no different than all of us "can" write descriptions - doesn't mean all of us do! If someone isn't comfortable doing it - no problem at all - but at least those of us that are would be able to help.

[Prince_Xanthius]

I was about to suggest a similar thing to LadyAmlaruil, though I was going with 50 or 100 approved gives someone the right to straight up approve (so no graded system like she has).

 

To get around what Sock said, would it be possible to add a 4th button for those 'mods'? Like 'Give Final Approval' or something, along with a very obvious note at the top of the page indicating that you have Mod Status and your word (if you choose to use that button) will add the description to the page? Basically even those with Mod status would be to review without responsibility if they chose.

 

The only issue with the system is how much power to CHANGE others descriptions should these mods be given. I don't know how the system currently works with that, but I feel that although for approval user-mods are fine, I am not sure the ability to rewrite should be there for them; though most would use it correctly to fix minor errors it is probably a bit too possible to abuse.

 

Edited for clarity

Edited January 4, 2015 by Prince_Xanthius

[LadyAmlaruil2]

This is a good point - I'm not sure if it has changed, but - it used to be that mods could correct minor errors, grammar, punctuation - that sort of thing! In my opinion, I have to agree that user-mods should NOT be able to modify someone else's description at all... too much power and abuse potential... either a simple "approve" or "reject".

[Fuzzbucket]

This is a good point - I'm not sure if it has changed, but - it used to be that mods could correct minor errors, grammar, punctuation - that sort of thing! In my opinion, I have to agree that user-mods should NOT be able to modify someone else's description at all... too much power and abuse potential... either a simple "approve" or "reject".

Ditto. My dragons could have trouble spelling - but more seriously, one more reason I gave up writing descriptions was that I was sick of people asking me to correct: colour, centre, the UK distinction I carefully draw between practice and practise (one is a noun and one a verb !) and one that got me a warn for mentioning it in the grammar thread but I forget what it was now... (Looked - it was this last one actually!)

 

This is one more reason I would love auto-approve after a certain number of OK ones.

[Starscream]

I like the idea of description mods. Theoretically I can approve descriptions. But I usually don't on grounds of not being the best in grammar and whatnot.

 

With that said, I would like it is mods still can approve descriptions as well.

 

[Ribombee]

When I am making even a moderate attempt to be grammatically correct, I am generally exceptionally well-written (sans autocorrect issues). Due to this, I was making it a point to go through and review several descriptions a day. However, upon seeing how long my own descriptions have been in queue, I gave up both on writing and on reviewing descriptions. I feel that both are a waste of time, since there are simply not enough mods to get through the backlog of descriptions. I have dragons who were described six months ago, and they are still waiting on approval. They had all of their user reviews within a couple days. User approvals are not at all what is backlogged.

 

I am not blaming the moderators in the least. They are already spread thin keeping the rest of the game and the forums running. I am a moderator on another game, and I know that it is a commitment.

 

For that reason, I full support some sort of description approver group which can take some of the burden off of the moderators. It should be comprised of people who have played and been active long enough to know the natures of the dragon breeds and who have excellent grammatical skills. I do like the idea that after so many final moderator approvals (and, perhaps looking over why some of their rejections were rejected) from a member of this task force, the person would be able to approve without a moderator having to look at it. By that point in time, the individual would have proven his or her ability to cull any descriptions which were problematic.

 

At first, it would likely have very little impact, as everything would still eventually have to go through a moderator. However, as more people gained the ability to approve descriptions outright, the burden on moderators would get lower and lower. Even if only a few people ever did make it to this position, as dedicated description approvers rather than general moderators, it would still likely significantly help the backlog issue.

Edited January 27, 2015 by harlequinraven

[Syphoneira]

Ditto. My dragons could have trouble spelling - but more seriously, one more reason I gave up writing descriptions was that I was sick of people asking me to correct: colour, centre, the UK distinction I carefully draw between practice and practise (one is a noun and one a verb !) and one that got me a warn for mentioning it in the grammar thread but I forget what it was now... (Looked - it was this last one actually!)

 

This is one more reason I would love auto-approve after a certain number of OK ones.

 

 

Lol, way back I wrote a description - in verse - of a Chicken who was so conceited that she thought dragons scared of being bored by her bragging ran away from her because they were afraid of her fighting ability, and had someone comment that they felt it was 'over-powered'.

 

I would definitely not like to see reviewers having the ability to change people's descriptions based on what they felt was correct or appropriate.

[RainDear]

I would love something that would streamline the approval system. I have had descriptions in the queue for months. I have one that I added to the queue a few days ago that has only gotten 2 reviews. To me, this says that the queue must be very long, cause mine has only been seen by two other players.

 

I do agree with SockPuppet that many would be uncomfortable with the responsibility. When I have reviewed, I have seen some descriptions that I am just unsure of. I usually abstain on those, but if I were a Description Approver, I would like to have the option of marking some like this for a moderator to check.

 

I do wonder how many of us would be willing to take on this challenge. Depending on the final form it takes, I for one would be willing. Who else???

 

I also think a little more needs to be said to make it apparent to all that alternate spellings like those Fuzzbucket pointed out are acceptable.

[Jashypoo]

I would be willing since I have experienced dragon descriptions just seeming to never be approved. So if we were able to get more people on the task then there would be, in theory, more descriptions to be approved.

 

Mind you I'd probably be EXTREMELY nervous the first week or soXD