American Politics

[Astreya]

@purplehaze

Oh, I see. Thank you. Ah, and that's because in the uS you can identify yourself by your driver's license, right?

Here you have to go to the Einwohnermeldeamt (= residents' registration office) for your ID card - I assume you don't have such an institution?

[ValidEmotions]

7 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

Department of Motor Vehicles, I believe. Which is the state agency that issues driver licenses. It may be called something else in some states.

Correct. It's also the location that issues out state IDs (different from driver's licenses and learner's permits for driving). 

 

Again, @Astreya people aren't opposed to IDs. However, not every US citizen has the means to get an ID. And, with Voter IDs being one of the tactics that Republicans/GOP urge under the guise of "security" during elections, all Voter IDs end up ensuring is yet another obstacle to shut out certain demographics from voting--thus suppressing their right to vote. This is because, if Voter IDs become a requirement, the same advocates for Voter IDs are NOT going to make such IDs accessible to every demographic.

Edited March 23, 2021 by ValidEmotions

[Astreya]

15 minutes ago, ValidEmotions said:

people aren't opposed to IDs. However, not every US citizen has the means to get an ID.

If a country would make IDs mandatory, normally it should take care that every person is able to get one of course.

 

 

[soullessheartofsteel]

I don't think that the argument for or against some form of ID is necessary-- Social Security numbers already fulfill that function. The real issue is that voting here in the States is opt-in, not opt-out, and we can absolutely improve voting accessibility without needing to issue an ID to everyone. Like allowing prisoners and ex-convicts to vote, and just automatically registering everyone as soon as they turn 18, and not give us mountains of paperwork to go through in order to bee properly registered. Also, make election days a state/federal holiday so that people can get time off to actually vote, and make mail voting more accessible for those who can't show up (which was emphasized during this election cycle and is why Republicans are making such a big push to continue purging voter rolls).

[Astreya]

20 minutes ago, soullessheartofsteel said:

I don't think that the argument for or against some form of ID is necessary-- Social Security numbers already fulfill that function.

Out of curiosity - does every person over 18 years of age in the US have such a number? 

(Incidentally, in Germany there is no general number like this.)

[soullessheartofsteel]

@Astreya You get yours as soon as you're born (or become a naturalized citizen), and it stays with you for the rest of your life. It essentially functions as proof of citizenship, as well as a part of identification for stuff like opening bank accounts, applying for jobs, and filing taxes. As a result, they're considered a very private thing, since people can steal your identity if they know it. I'm assuming there's much less secrecy around German IDs?

[Astreya]

@soullessheartofsteel

That's interesting! Then you really should be able to just use that for voting, too.

 

As for German ID cards - they are pretty much used like these social security numbers of yours, but as an ID card has quite some security features and can't be falsified easily, there is no reason to keep it secret like that.  Here's some info on German ID cards:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_identity_card

[Lagie]

10 hours ago, Astreya said:

BTW, even non-EU foreigners who want to stay in Germany beyond a holiday need a kind of ID card called "residence permit" here).

I had to get one of those as a student on a student exchange in Berlin back in 1981. Oddly, I don't recall getting one for my work study trip in Sauerland in 1984.

 

Here in The Bahamas, you have to register to vote every five years and the voters' list is created anew each time... at least, up till the last election. Covid has put a stop to that because it requires too much face-to-face time while they hand write (yes, we live in the Dark Ages here) your voter's card. So next election they will use the voter's list from the previous election and only register new voters.

[Fuzzbucket]

On 3/22/2021 at 12:23 PM, Astreya said:

I never understood why it is such anathema for either US or UK citizens to get an ID card or mandatory registration for all citizens as IMO that would solve many of their problems.

Why it is anathema to many in the UK (including me) is because when they were first suggested, the govt planned to put everything about you on them - health records, driving, social security, benefits, tax info and the like. They even thought our BANKING info should be on there. Leaving aside the government's APPALLING record on data security anyway, and the fact that they routinely sell information after swearing blind that it was TOTALLY SECURE,  all this stuff should not be linked up in one place, and accessible on a single card.

[soullessheartofsteel]

Yeah, honestly I understand that maintaining a society with a robust support system requires its citizens to give up a lot of personal info, but as an Amurican(tm), I'm definitely extra concerned about my privacy and independence (especially following that whole Snowden mess back in 2013 during my formative years). I already hate that RealID is required now in my state, and I would dread having to put literally all of my information on a single card that the government with extremely outdated computer systems would be in charge of maintaining and protecting from hackers. I'd only do it if my country could prove that they can be responsible with my information, which, being America, they likely can't.

 

It seems like mass shootings are also back at 25% capacity. It literally hasn't been a week since Atlanta, and now Boulder. My condolences to anyone affected by the shooting. Just a few days prior, a judge in Colorado had overturned a ruling that prevented Coloradans from owning a certain type of rifle, and the NRA had successfully lobbied to get it overturned. Now look what happened. Honestly, all of these mass shootings are an embarrassment to an already rather embarrassing country.

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

2 minutes ago, soullessheartofsteel said:

Now look what happened. Honestly, all of these mass shootings are an embarrassment to an already rather embarrassing country.

On the school shootings, in 2018 Mitch McConnell threw in the towel and said, 'I don't see what we can do, besides appropriate funds.'   He never said what those funds would be used for.

They stopped talking about funding mental health after Sandy Hook and started in on 'thoughts and prayers,' because they saw people actually expected them to put funding into mental health... not  that is the root cause of the mass shooting problems. It's a red herring. The need for mental health funding is *very* real, but radicalization is the real cause. It's not 'lone wolfs' and 'randos like they want you to believe,' it's domestic terrorism. 

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

I HOPE the press over there are noting that the "it's anti-Asian" nonsense about the Atlanta shootings was seriously skewed - that the shooter was trying to "atone" for the fact that he felt such guilt for having bought sex in those parlours and wanted to prevent others falling into the same sin. In other words - religions nonsense. NOT that it was OK, but racism was not a part of this particular one.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/atlanta-shootings-fbi-investigating-killing-of-eight-at-massage-parlors-1161598945

 

Meanwhile this amused me enormously: HER LAWYER says no-one could have taken her seriously - that's her defence !

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/23/sidney-powell-trump-election-fraud-claims

Edited March 28, 2021 by Fuzzbucket

[Astreya]

7 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Why it is anathema to many in the UK (including me) is because when they were first suggested, the govt planned to put everything about you on them - health records, driving, social security, benefits, tax info and the like. They even thought our BANKING info should be on there. Leaving aside the government's APPALLING record on data security anyway, and the fact that they routinely sell information after swearing blind that it was TOTALLY SECURE,  all this stuff should not be linked up in one place, and accessible on a single card.

Okay, I guess that's indeed a point. I noticed that privacy stuff is handled far less strictly in the UK than e.g. in Germany in general.

In my ID card I could even opt out from the fingerprint and internet pin as I really didn't think this should be added to mine. For health stuff, we have our health insurance card and that's totally separate from the ID.

 

2 hours ago, soullessheartofsteel said:

Yeah, honestly I understand that maintaining a society with a robust support system requires its citizens to give up a lot of personal info, but as an Amurican(tm), I'm definitely extra concerned about my privacy and independence (especially following that whole Snowden mess back in 2013 during my formative years). I already hate that RealID is required now in my state, and I would dread having to put literally all of my information on a single card that the government with extremely outdated computer systems would be in charge of maintaining and protecting from hackers. I'd only do it if my country could prove that they can be responsible with my information, which, being America, they likely can't.

 

It seems like mass shootings are also back at 25% capacity. It literally hasn't been a week since Atlanta, and now Boulder. My condolences to anyone affected by the shooting. Just a few days prior, a judge in Colorado had overturned a ruling that prevented Coloradans from owning a certain type of rifle, and the NRA had successfully lobbied to get it overturned. Now look what happened. Honestly, all of these mass shootings are an embarrassment to an already rather embarrassing country.

What exactly is "RealID"?

 

As in my above reply, it really seems that the US government also seems to have some other ideas about privacy than what is set into EU law, too. IIRC the US internet companies are not so amused about all the things they have to do to keep to the EU privacy and data protection laws as well.

 

As for the mass shootings - IMO they will not cease until you curb the power of the NRA and set up proper gun control laws.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

9 hours ago, Astreya said:

Okay, I guess that's indeed a point. I noticed that privacy stuff is handled far less strictly in the UK than e.g. in Germany in general.

In my ID card I could even opt out from the fingerprint and internet pin as I really didn't think this should be added to mine. For health stuff, we have our health insurance card and that's totally separate from the ID.

 

What exactly is "RealID"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act

 

https://www.dhs.gov/real-id/federal-enforcement

 

Basically a compulsory ID card with what they call "minimum security". Which you will have to carry to board a plane unless you have a passport. If you have a driver's licence, it will have to become one of these, AFAIK. And as far as I can see it will become a requirement FEDERALLY on October 1.

 

A Real ID-compliant form of identification requires the following pieces of data:

• Full legal name
• Signature
• Date of birth
• Gender
• Unique identifying number
• Principal residence address
• Front-facing photograph of the applicant

9 hours ago, Astreya said:

 

As in my above reply, it really seems that the US government also seems to have some other ideas about privacy than what is set into EU law, too. IIRC the US internet companies are not so amused about all the things they have to do to keep to the EU privacy and data protection laws as well.

One HUGE Thing I object to about Brexit is that we are now outside the EU's VERY SENSIBLE data protection laws.

 

9 hours ago, Astreya said:

 

As for the mass shootings - IMO they will not cease until you curb the power of the NRA and set up proper gun control laws.

Amen to that.

[Astreya]

@Fuzzbucket

Thank you very much for the explanation and links.

 

From the Wiki article and the other one, it appears to me as if the requirements of a RealID are no more than those we have on our ID cards here..

[Fuzzbucket]

No, but people in the US and the UK don't trust their governments (I have to say, with some justification.) I'd be fine with a CANADIAN ID card, but not with a UK one that had anything more than the RealID required - which is in fact exactly what is on my UK driver's licence. AND, come to think, also a Canadian one.

 

Interestingly, I have refused to allow my health information to be on the national database (when I mentioned it to my doctor she said smart, nor would she !) - so how, when I went for my covid jab at a central facility, not the local one (because our local booking got totally messed up), did they know I had had my flu jab. And even MORE interestingly, they said "and you had a yellow fever vaccination" - and named a year - which was the year MY HUSBAND had had his. I had indeed had one - but almost 25 years later than his. This is the kind of reason I try not to have anything on me held by the UK government that isn't a legal requirement; it could be catastrophically wrong. And how did they get that info, as I had signed NOT to release it centrally ? So - suspicion is rife and justifiably so.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Fuzzbucket

[Astreya]

@Fuzzbucket

In Germany they have no idea what vaccinations you had before when you go to a vaccination centre to get your Covid jab. Before you go, you have to print out 1 page "information about the vaccination process", 3 pages "information about the vaccine, side effects etc", 1 page "anamnesis" (where you write down allergies and chronic illnesses and medication you take yourself), 1 page "written declaration of consent" - but of course two times as every page has to be signed by you and the doctor giving the shot and you get one set, and one set stays in the vaccination centre.

 

For vaccinations you normally have an "Impfbuch" (a booklet as Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis), but that stuff is usually only in your possession and no one else has this information. Currently the health insurer work on an electronic patient file where all the stuff is stored digitally, but so far this is still optional and not mandatory.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Astreya

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh sure - I have a record of my vaccinations and so does my doctor. But since I refused to have my health details on the national database, I'd like to know how the hell they got hold of the fact that I'd had my flu shot. If I HAD put them up there, fine. But the fact that they had my HUSBAND's yellow fever date rather than mine is enough for me to be very glad that in theory at least they can't use my  database info for any kind of treatment plan. I HOPE. This incident concerns me greatly - both in terms of my data not being as private as I said it must be and more, in terms of it being inaccurate. When I go for my second shot I won't be so startled and will be with it enough to ASK !

Edited March 24, 2021 by Fuzzbucket

[soullessheartofsteel]

@Fuzzbucket I mean, I feel like it's important to note that anti-Asian racism is inextricably tied to misogyny and hatred for sex workers-- the Western world, and especially America, sees Asian women as exotic/forbidden "temptations", and Asia remains the most popular continent to go to for sex tourism. Many of the stereotypes about Asian women are highly sexualized and it shows in Americans' treatment of Asian women, their laws (Page Act of 1875 labeled Chinese women as disease-carrying prostitutes) and their portrayal in media. That One Line from Full Metal Jacket would not still be a part of our popular vernacular after all these decades if it didn't speak to something that we, as a culture, hold in our minds about Asian women. Another very important thing to note is that the area that these massage parlors were in (Buckhead area) is filled with strip clubs and other similar businesses. If his disordered thoughts were absolutely divorced from race, why would he ignore these other locations? They're all temptations, aren't they? Perhaps, then, there is something about his victims' race that made them seem like more acceptable targets for violence, having less depth of character, having no existence beyond his projections of them as sexual objects-- in short, less human. It can happen to white women, but women of color take a double hit from the dehumanization of both misogyny and racism.

Quote

Besides the mendacious implication that crimes of misogyny and racism are mutually exclusive, Asians make up only 4 percent of the population in Georgia, which assuredly includes an assortment of sex work locales—yet, miraculously, all three of the suspect’s targets were Asian-owned. He drove a full 27 miles, approximately 40 minutes, to get from a Chinese-owned Acworth spa to two Korean-owned spas in Atlanta. (Source)

 

Also, even if there isn't enough evidence to prove in court that this was an anti-Asian hate crime, which is the most probable result, this event swims in a bigger stream of anti-Asian hate crimes and hate incidents, and can't be divorced from the context of kung-flu, Chinese virus, and "me love you long time". I doubt that this man's bias was conscious and deliberate the way a KKK member's hatred is. But his choice to target Asian business, his choice to kill these women, many of whom were in their 40s and above-- it didn't come from nowhere.

[random_dragon_collector]

1 hour ago, soullessheartofsteel said:

@Fuzzbucket I mean, I feel like it's important to note that anti-Asian racism is inextricably tied to misogyny and hatred for sex workers-- the Western world, and especially America, sees Asian women as exotic/forbidden "temptations", and Asia remains the most popular continent to go to for sex tourism. Many of the stereotypes about Asian women are highly sexualized and it shows in Americans' treatment of Asian women, their laws (Page Act of 1875 labeled Chinese women as disease-carrying prostitutes) and their portrayal in media. That One Line from Full Metal Jacket would not still be a part of our popular vernacular after all these decades if it didn't speak to something that we, as a culture, hold in our minds about Asian women. Another very important thing to note is that the area that these massage parlors were in (Buckhead area) is filled with strip clubs and other similar businesses. If his disordered thoughts were absolutely divorced from race, why would he ignore these other locations? They're all temptations, aren't they? Perhaps, then, there is something about his victims' race that made them seem like more acceptable targets for violence, having less depth of character, having no existence beyond his projections of them as sexual objects-- in short, less human. It can happen to white women, but women of color take a double hit from the dehumanization of both misogyny and racism.

 

Also, even if there isn't enough evidence to prove in court that this was an anti-Asian hate crime, which is the most probable result, this event swims in a bigger stream of anti-Asian hate crimes and hate incidents, and can't be divorced from the context of kung-flu, Chinese virus, and "me love you long time". I doubt that this man's bias was conscious and deliberate the way a KKK member's hatred is. But his choice to target Asian business, his choice to kill these women, many of whom were in their 40s and above-- it didn't come from nowhere.

 

Well written. Race was most definitely a factor.

[ValidEmotions]

@soullessheartofsteel Thank you for your response. You put it far more nicely than I would have.

Racism and misogyny (as well as "religious") are not mutually exclusive things.

[soullessheartofsteel]

Thank you, everyone. I'll admit that it was a little hurtful to see the word "nonsense" be applied to Asians' concerns about violence against their communities, especially after Stop AAPI Hate released a report saying that hate incidents against Asians had spiked in 2020, especially against women and the elderly. If six people of the same minority group die in one incident at the hands of the same perpetrator, it would be reasonable to consider the possibility that the crime was racially motivated-- remember Dylann Roof? Remember Pulse? America has a hard time talking about racism beyond black and white, and to a degree I understand, as Asians (east or west) only make up a tiny percentage of the US population and tend to live in ethnic enclaves in big cities-- many places don't have an Asian community, or even individual Asian residents. But between the Page Act, the Chinese Exclusion Act, the mass lynchings and firebombings in California Chinatowns, the California Alien Land Law of 1913, Yellow Peril, Red Scares, Japanese internment camps, Vincent Chin, modern anti-immigration policies, literally the list goes on and on and on-- there must be room in the national discourse for Asians, especially as the Asian demographic in America continues to grow, and is in fact the fastest-growing racial group in the US.

 

Racism against Asians does not manifest itself the same way racism against black people does. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or is not serious enough to warrant discussion if it does.

Edited March 24, 2021 by soullessheartofsteel
grammar

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

Here's a quote from Reddit that I found particularly poignant:

 

Republican solutions aren't meant to solve problems, they're meant to sabotage conversations.

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

Republican Senator Steve Daines from Montana: “Twenty years ago in Montana, meth was homemade. It was homegrown. And you had purity levels less than 30 percent,” Daines said alongside other Republican seantors who had traveled to the southern border. “Today the meth that is getting into Montana is Mexican cartel. It has purities north of 95 percent. Far more dangerous, far more addictive, and it’s less expensive.” - March 26, 2021

 

Steve Daines made the claims on Friday while speaking to reporters alongside other several Republican officials during a trip to the US-Mexico border. ‘The meth version of They Took Our Jobs,’ jokes one social media user

 

Yes, really. He said that.

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Long_Before_Sunrise

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

I'm annoyed with people who are saying "Just ignore Donald Trump. Stop writing articles about him. Stop feeding the monster's hunger for attention." and the one who think they're really clever by asking 'Who?' when Trump is mentioned.

 

That's just trying to ignore reality. Like standing in the aftermath of natural disaster and pretending you can just go back life as normal while pretending the damage all around you doesn't exist.

That's like waiting for people to finally stop mentioning Richard Nixon. 

They should have ignored him in 2015-2016. It's too late now. There's no going back to "before Donald Trump," not after he was president for four years.