New action: Search

[RicketyCat]

It all sounds great. One thing I'd add is either Search or Breed, but not both in the same week. Sounds pretty basic, but I don't recall seeing it mentioned in this thread.

 

As for things to find: places where things could hide. Small dragons can fit into smaller places. Large dragons can carry larger items. Maybe there are things that float in the air or are submerged in water.

 

Why limit it to useful things. Anchors, diving helmets, helium balloons, platypuses, a burning bush - who knows what's out there.

[Dragonwolf]

I agree that the change-name-thingie would be a rare thing for the dragons to catch. Just like if they bring rare eggs; that would be a rare catch as well.

 

The usual catch should be those shiny things people were taling about. It would be lots of fun if you go in to a dragons personal page you can see what they have brought home. There could be weird stuff there as well, like old shoes, unreadable scrolls, rather useless stones, stuff like that.

And there could be a rather big chance that the dragon doesn't find anything at all.

[n00biito]

Not to rain on anyone's parade here... I wonder what's so orginal about this thread? Everything you added here was already suggested in the that "hoard" thread?

 

Either ways I still think it's a nice idea. I want to do more stuff with my adults other than breeding.

 

I'd like on of each kind of dragon/ non dragon rares. I dare not breed and release yet so I have space for new rare eggs when I see them.

[Lythiaren]

Not to rain on anyone's parade here... I wonder what's so orginal about this thread? Everything you added here was already suggested in the that "hoard" thread?

Because it's a separate feature?

 

Dove's description thread was two features in one: hoarding (with an ambiguous method of enlarging the hoard, most suggestions involving more views) and descriptions which were recently implemented. Only at the end did it mention a Search feature, and that was spurned by the Ascension thread, in which I initially suggested this.

 

Now if you'd actually taken the time to read my thread instead of coming in here and insulting me about my own idea that I decided to separate from the two threads of origin, you'd know that.

Edited August 2, 2008 by Lythiaren

[Bacchani]

I think this is a great idea. It would be awesome for passing the time while I wait on my eggs. I think it should be more than once a week that the Search feature is available (maybe once a day?).

 

But that's because I totally advocate the finding of useless items. (I like that burning bush. Maybe a platypus, too. What if your dragon found a fossil? 8D That could be a good one for ground-type dragons. )

[n00biito]

Not to rain on anyone's parade here... I wonder what's so orginal about this thread? Everything you added here was already suggested in the that "hoard" thread?

Because it's a separate feature?

 

Dove's description thread was two features in one: hoarding (with an ambiguous method of enlarging the hoard, most suggestions involving more views) and descriptions which were recently implemented. Only at the end did it mention a Search feature, and that was spurned by the Ascension thread, in which I initially suggested this.

 

Now if you'd actually taken the time to read my thread instead of coming in here and insulting me about my own idea that I decided to separate from the two threads of origin, you'd know that.

I didn't insult you. I just asked what was the difference since I read both threads and couldn't find a difference.

 

I remember reading about getting piles of gold and lady human pets. It stuck with me especially since they were initially called "virgins"

 

I actually went over your list of suggestions twice and couldn't find anything I hadn't read there already, that's why I specifically asked for you to please point out to me what's so different? Where's the insult?

[Meguey]

I like the idea of dragons going out and finding random things, sometimes useful and sometimes not, ratio TBD. It gives them more to do than sit around and breed (although that's a pretty easy life ) I agree that it should be once a week per dragon.

 

What I *don't* like is the idea of human servants. Although I think the *idea* is cool, in *practice* I think it would just open some crazy doors, and I'd rather keep the humans out of the dragony picture. There's room for that in the RG sections, for anyone who wants to have people in with their dragons.

 

If there was a chance that my dragons would bring back people, I'd choose not to send them out. And if you want to play, but don't want the person (or the boot, or the burning bush, or etc.), what then? Can you abandon it in the cave? Kill it?

[Lythiaren]

I didn't insult you. I just asked what was the difference since I read both threads and couldn't find a difference.

 

I remember reading about getting piles of gold and lady human pets. It stuck with me especially since they were initially called "virgins"

 

I actually went over your list of suggestions twice and couldn't find anything I hadn't read there already, that's why I specifically asked for you to please point out to me what's so different? Where's the insult?

The fact that you've gone and told me that my entire idea is unoriginal because the example applications are unoriginal. There is quite a difference between this suggestion and the suggestions in the referenced threads. The function to search for things is separate from the things themselves, and you've gone and lumped them together, implying that I'm some sort of filthy plagiarizing thief.

 

I'm suggesting a function to search for things. What things your dragon might bring back (and what those things do if they do anything at all) don't matter, the suggestion is that they are made capable of going out and looking for loot.

 

 

You've gone and equated that idea with:

 

1. Dove's idea of hoarding: accumulating stuff. How is not a part of it, the idea is that your dragons accumulate stuff somehow.

2. Phazzy's idea of a new stage of development not gained with views. Again, how is not a part of it; the idea is that your dragons can ascend to a higher stage.

 

Tell me how accumulating stuff, ascending to a new stage, and searching for trinkets are the same idea.

[admyrrek]

@ Lythiaren and n00biito -- Chill. Your mutual bickering is getting us off topic.

 

This is a very interesting and cool idea. It kinda reminds me of the random treasure rolling for Dungeons and Dragons (as I'm the DM, I get to play with the treasure charts a lot). I think that could be how the search function works.

 

Some downsides to this is the huge amount of logistic work it would entail. I'm not a coding person, but i'm rather certain that running code for probability of certain results (i.e. what is the likelihood they will get something at all? etc.), not to mention the directing of all the loot sprites, functions, descriptions, and more, will take an enormous amount of effort. And then, there are the sprites and the descriptions for their uses to deal with. If it were to run in the same way as the randomly generated treasure charts in D&D (i.e. a numbered list of 100 different items) that would still be 100 different sprites and 100 different descriptions. From having done several dragon sprites of late, I can attest to that being a sizable amount of work.

 

 

That being said, here's what I can envision:

 

The dragon goes out in search of loot. It has a 50% chance it finds something. If it does indeed find something, based on a "percentile roll" (remember, I'm using the functions of D&D to try to understand the workings of a program) it could come back with...

 

Stupid useless shi† (1-20%)

1. old shoe

2. old boot

3. crumpled paper/parchment

4. broken bike

5. animal bones

6. human bones

7. rock, dull red

8. rock, dull green

9. rock, dull blue

10. rock, dull brown

11. rock, dull black

12. rock, dull gray

13. rock, dull speckled

14. stick

15. log

16. dead leaves

17. pulled up bush

18. piece of scrap metal/bottle cap

19. piece of broken mirror

20. broken plowshare

 

Interesting, but still generally useless (21-40%)

21. teapot

22. fork

23. butter knife

24. spoon

25. candlestick

26. bucket

27. feather, chicken

28. feather, crow

29. feather, eagle

30. anchor

31. canon ball

32. small canon

33. lantern

34. vase

35. wagon wheel

36. old book

37. inkwell

38. spade

39. horse shoe

40. flag

 

Traditional dragon-coveted shines; low-end (41-50%)

41. helmet

42. breast plate

43. pocket watch/compass

44. pendant

45. gold, small amount

46. semi-precious stone, amethyst

47. semi-precious stone, amber

48. semi-precious stone, aquamarine

49. semi-precious stone, obsidian

50. semi-precious stone, jade

 

Traditional dragon-coveted shines; medium-end (51-60%)

51. small gems, diamonds

52. small gems, rubies

53. small gems, sapphires

54. small gems, emeralds

55. small gems, pearls

56. gold, medium amount

57. sword, common

58. shield, common

59. jewelry

60. chest, small

 

Traditional dragon-coveted shines; high-end (61-70%)

61. big gem, diamond

62. big gem, ruby

63. big gem, sapphire

64. big gem, emerald

65. big gem, pearl

66. gold, large amount

67. sword, fancy

68. shield, fancy/coat of arms

69. crown

70. chest, large

 

Useful herbs/natural stuff/potions (71-80%)

71. herb, fertility (ensures eggs will be laid on next breeding)

72. herb, aphrodisiac (ensures dragons will mate at next attempt/gives added breeding attempt in the week)

73. herb, caffeine (ensures a successful premature forcing out of egg)

74. mineral, calcium (extends time for hatchlings and eggs)

75. fruit (provides the equivalent of 5 unique views)

76. vegetable (provides the equivalent of 5 clicks)

77. potion, thawing potion (for unfreezing hatchlings or eggs)

78. potion, reviving potion (aids in the revival of a deceased dragon)

79. potion, blue (if given to a young hatchling it will become male)

80. potion, red (if given to a young hatchling it will become female)

 

Eggs and other cool things(81-100%)

81. erasing fluid (for name changes)

82. egg, split

83. egg, green dino

84. egg, yellow dino

85. egg, blue dino

86. egg, red dino

87. egg, chicken

88. egg, paper

89. egg, silver

90. egg, gold

91. hatchling, split

92. hatchling, green dino

93. hatchling, yellow dino

94. hatchling, blue dino

95. hatchling, red dino

96. hatchling, chicken

97. hatchling, paper

98. hatchling, silver

99. hatchling, gold

100. eggs, 2 gold

 

 

This isn't a perfect list, of course, but just something I whipped up with the D&D charts in mind as far as value distribution goes. The more I think of it though, the more I think that the amount of work this would involve would be prohibitive and perhaps just a few key items to search for would be sufficient.

[Lythiaren]

It's hardly off-topic to defend myself when someone's criticizing the idea.

 

 

As for the dice idea, I'm not a fan of a single set loot chart like that. Especially since an inexperienced dragon (ie. hasn't searched before, therefore would have no idea where to start looking for loot) would definitely not have such a high chance of bringing home a rare egg/hatchling dragon, so much as coming back empty-clawed. In D&D terms, you'd be looking at a dragon with only 1 skill point in Search skill initially, who as they gain experience puts more points into the skill to boost their roll.

 

It's not at all difficult to code a random number generator; rolling a random number from 1-100 is a fair way to determine if the dragon comes back with anything at all. Say, it's a 20% chance of success, the basic code structure could be along the lines of:

 

 

roll = hoardmodifier(randomnum(1,100));

if (roll > 80) {

success = True;

}

else {

success = False;

}

 

Then if, say, there's a 60% chance on success of getting a miscellaneous trinket for the dragon's individual hoard (why make descriptions for every possible item?), a 30% chance of a common usable item, and a 10% chance of getting a rare usable item:

 

 

if (success = True) {

loot = hoardmodifier(randomnum(1,100));

hoard++;

if (60 < loot <= 90) {

inv = inv.append(rollrandom(ListOfCommonLewtz));

} else if (loot > 90) {

inv = inv.append(rollrandom(ListOfRareLewtz));

}

} else {

return;

}

 

"hoard++;" being a function to add 1 to the dragon's hoard, giving it a numerical value that can be used as a modifier in some function that will allow hoard size to influence the dragon's chance of success (logically speaking, larger hoard = dragon is better at finding stuff for himself), probably with some mathematical formula so it's not a direct, predictable relationship. "inv" is the list in the database of the player's inventory of usable things. ListOfCommonLewtz is obviously a list of common usables, one of which is randomly picked and added to inv if the roll so dictates. Likewise with ListOfRareLewtz, but with rare loot. By keeping the loot in mutable lists (more practically, lists of keys to reference rows in a database table), it's possible to easily add more loot with associated images and possibly descriptions, depending on how the coder (in this case TJ) chooses to design the function. Of course this is all typed up in bad Java-based pseudocode, but it's a basic idea of how the coding might work.

 

</technobabble>

 

 

... In D&D terms, the first roll is d% rolling 81 or higher for success, or with a +modifier depending on hoard size (implicit searching exp). Upon a successful Search roll, roll d% again to determine what kind of loot you find. You get +1 to your hoard regardless (searching exp, I suppose), and if your new roll is between 61 and 90, you get a common loot on top of your miscellaneous hoard trinket. Roll 91+ and it's a rare instead. In both cases, roll an appropriate die (eg. if there are 20 common loots, roll 1d20) to determine what loot you get from that chart.

 

3 dice rolls altogether: successful Search check, chance of getting a special loot, and which special loot you get.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Lythiaren

[RicketyCat]

syntax error: end tag without a start tag

 

As for "dice rolls" - are you guys referring to 4th ed. or white box? It makes a difference when searching a dragon's hoard what an adventurer might find.

 

To topic:

In the case of the dragons here, admyyrek makes a good listing with seven categories. Lythiaren gets the coding prize. I'd only modify either slightly.

 

A successful find roll adds a certain number to the search skill, but not automatically to the item list. Knowing where something isn't is just as important as where something is. Would an unsuccessful roll subtract some number from skill? Could a dragon actually lose things from a critically bad search? How many skill points would allow for better results?

 

I'd shorten the percentages a little. From the categories, I'd say anything from 60 to 80 finds something in the first three (it can be broken down further). That leaves 4 more categories at 5% each. Anything under 60 finds nothing.

 

A weight factor could be added making it harder for smaller critters (chickens, Mints) to haul the big stuff even if they find it. Since they do communicate telepathically, one of the larger dragons would, "Look eager to go search for something." With the user able to choose to let them go. All the user would know is that there is something large enough that the small couldn't bring it in. Could it be an anchor; could it be a chest - who knows?

 

As to where the items are listed: I don't think I'd put them on the main scroll, but I would list them as line items (Lythieren) without the need for sprites. In the main Cave description it states that the adult dragons are sitting on piles of gold (and other stuff is implied), but without a complete description. Wouldn't that translate to seeing "stuff" under a particular dragon only when you look at that dragon (Click)? Text should be enough, especially at the beginning (sprites could be integrated later if needs be). Adding sprites would mean a whole lot of work. It would also lead to some users wanting to see the dragon on the scroll actually sitting on the stuff (i.e. new sprites for already established dragons curled up on, or wrapping themselves around, their "stuff.")

Edited August 4, 2008 by RicketyCat

[Lythiaren]

I thought I only applied the hoard modifier to the chance of success and the chance of finding something in addition to [miscellaneous trinket]. :B

 

As for how to display things, if there are individual hoards for each dragon it can be mentioned on their page... Not as a number, mind you, but "This dragon has a <tiny/small/medium/large/substantial/massive> hoard of trinkets". For more specific things (like elixirs and things your dragon may not want, so it gives to you), they can be listed on your own private scroll as a text list, since no one else really needs to know that you have a sparkling magic potion unless they're really curious.

 

A weight factor could be interesting, though. Perhaps the message for a successful "big item" search on a mint or chicken could be "It moves as though it wants to show you something. You follow it to discover ____! It is added to <your inventory/dragon's hoard>."

[Nicknam4]

I'd like a potion that gives you a small chance of getting 5 eggs for one pair.

[admyrrek]

My D&D experience is with 3.5 only, and it will likely stay that way as what I've heard about 4 isn't to my liking. I'm just using D&D and dice rolls as an analogy for something I think is sufficiently similar.

 

I totally forgot to add a size/weight/location note! I put many of the list items on there thinking that only some dragons could be able to get them. Pearls, anchors, canon balls and canons would be things only the water dragon could find. The feathers would be things only the skywing and storm dragons might find. The mint dragons obviously couldn't bring home a log as its too big for them. The red dragons wouldn't be able to bring home crumpled paper because they would set it on fire. ETC.

 

I wonder if an individual list of maybe possible 10 items per dragon would be better than a single list with restrictions on it.

[Thornstar]

As for the dice idea, I'm not a fan of a single set loot chart like that.

 

But then something like this would happen:

 

*chicken goes out searching*

Chicken: I found a KFC store :DD

...

Chicken: Aaaaah!

Chicken dies.

 

*dragon goes out a while later*

Dragon: I found a KFC store :DD

*dragon brings back bag*

Owner: What happened to the chicken?

Dragon: I ate it

Owner: Where's [insert Chicken's name here] gone anyway?

Dragon: I don't know but the chicken wings I ate smelled like her.

Owner: :OO

 

Anyway, I like this idea

[TJ09]

I know nothing about D&D, so I don't really know what you're talking about.

 

But I do have a pretty functional implementation of code that will pick a random item from a list based on relative rarities of items in that list.

[Trillian]

I have to say, I REALLY like this idea. It would enhance gameplay without having to get into RP, which some of us are less interested in. Actually, I'm pretty sure the RP'ers will add it in to their games as well.

 

Thanks for posting, Lythiaren! I hope something along these lines is implemented in the near future.

[Quintafeira12]

I'm still neutral on this idea, but if TJ actually know how to easily make it, and it does sound easy the way he tells it, I think I shoud mentally schedule this as a "possible" future feature in an update.

[kehf]

I like this idea. I particularly like the idea of dragons coming back with 'treasures' like an old shoe or other odd things. That would be fun!

[FyreDrygyon]

I like this idea.

[lindsy95]

Better than having nothing to do with your adults But I think the Items should be random

[PhazonDragon]

Better than having nothing to do with your adults But I think the Items should be random

I assume that they would be random

[kismetigs]

This is a really cool idea...I love the thought of having something to do with adults other than breed once a week.

[Kila]

You're really on a roll with these suggestions, Lyth. Much love to yoooooooou! :3

 

This is a fantastic idea! Once all my dragons have descriptions and I've got entire sets....I will have run out of things to do, so this Search concept is truly epic in my eyes.

 

You're my hero ;A;

[Heartwing]

I love this idea!