ANSWERED:Recent breeding difficulties

[laevsk]

Hi all! 😊

Lately I've noticed a decline in successful breedings in pairs of dragons who normally produce fairly well. For one example, my bronze Shimmer. I've had him nearly 2 years and he's produced a good number of eggs. But for the last 5 breedings there's been no eggs at all - even when bred to dragons he has always done well with. He has never not produced for this many breedings in a row (and I always use fertility with him). The only successful breedings I've had lately are with commons.

I'm seeing the same kind of comments from other players, and I'm wondering if there's a reason for this? Is there something we're doing wrong, or has the game changed in some way? I'm just looking for answers and hopefully a way to get past this, as the future of the game tends to be in breeding lineages. 

Thanks, and I hope to hear from others - both those with similar experiences and those with possible answers.

[mishhelle]

I’ve also noticed a sudden decline in successful breedings with pairings and lineages that have performed well (resulting in an egg) in the past. 

 

Many of my lineages involve rares such as Stats, metals, and Prizes. I realize those are typically harder to breed— but in the past two months, their output has noticeably decreased. I would at least get a miscolor Xeno or common egg, but something has changed to result in a higher number of “no interest” and “no egg”.  The only pairs that have given somewhat consistent output are common x common and holiday/uncommon x common.

 

There have been discussions about this change  in the Unofficial Discord on several occasions now…both involving massbreeders and those who work on their personal projects. I hope they will chime in and share their similar experiences. 

[KageSora]

I expect there were some behind the scenes tweaks due to some dragons overproducing--Xenos, for example.  They were one of multiple breeds that would wall off the AP entirely when people bred them.  Now other breeds wall it off instead of them, they seem to breed much less.

 

I don't think there's going to be "a way past" it, however, if the issue was "these are breeding so well they're drowning out other dragons".  There will probably be further tweaks over time to try and keep things as close to at least sort of balanced as possible.

 

I'd also say that 5 failed breedings in a row for a prize dragon is reasonable--you've just had surprisingly good luck if you've never had a streak like that before.

Edited October 23, 2023 by KageSora

[laevsk]

The Shimmer was just one example. Because I've bred him more regularly than most of my dragons, he came to mind.  I've often gotten a non-Shim egg, but he's never gone 5 times with no egg.  I've had problems breeding anything beyond common dragons for weeks.  

 

But beyond my experiences, there are many others who have a recent drop in breedings of non-common dragons. 

 

I understand the Xeno/AP problem. If tweaking the breeding was considered the solution, and it's affected other breedings, then this is a potential problem that affects the overall game.  Without consistent breeding, players who are at the stage where breeding lineages is the most important part of the game will be struggling even more than normal, any time they use non-common dragons.  So for the sake of the game, I think it's good for us to discuss this, share our experiences and find the possible cause.

 

This is not a criticism of Dragon Cave - it's a concerned query.

[KageSora]

There is no "stage" of the game where breeding for lineages is the most important part of the game.

 

Calling it a "stage" implies it's an official point in the game you're supposed to reach.  What it actually is, is a personal playstyle choice to personal taste.

 

It's useful to bring up that it's been noticed, I just wouldn't assume it will be reversed if it was an intentional tweak.

 

(And I doubt other breeds are accidentally affected--I would assume multiple breeds are tweaked if this was a deliberate nerf on breeding rates.)

[laevsk]

Well, it's a stage for me ..😁.  Initially the focus was on getting through all the trophy stages, then filling up with CB dragons especially in the breeds I liked best, then thinking about breeding lineages.  Whether it's called a stage or a personal  choice, it's a fairly logical progression for many players. 

 

It's semantics. Not really an essential point to this particular thread.

 

I expect we won't know anything about a tweak/glitch or intentional/unintentional unless someone in the know decides to tell us. But given the amount of chatter going on, the topic is valid. Something is different.

Edited October 23, 2023 by laevsk

[Tigerkralle]

So how about 9 Coppers and 6 Electrics and three Aeria Glories as their mates all of them sensible with one mate under the effect of Fertility because most of them were never bred ever in their lifes ever.

Coppers were never intended to be rare, weird stuff made them rare.

I got one egg in total.

All those pairs were new and like 7 of the Coppers and all with the exception of two of their mates all dragons were bred for the very first time.

 

Usally you get a Common egg but only 1 egg out of 9 breedings is low. That is just the example i still remember and can post here.

Breedings in the past with unusual low number od eggs produced i cannot remember because real life important stuff occupies main part of memory.

 

There is a very noticeable change in the overall output of every breeding no matter which breeds are involved. Even with the use of Fertility which should raise the odds of getting an egg at all and lessens the chance of a refusal for a brandnew pair.

[Fuzzbucket]

I've been getting extraordinary numbers of common pairings that aren't interested or give no egg. Some that have bred well before, others new pairs - and all fertilised, as I noticed this a while ago and hoped it would help. One of my Hall;owe'en lines is now ruined - as I needed a mistlet - just a mistlet, a 4th gen with punkins -- and they've been bored so often that now I haven't time before they will only give me a punkin  

 

Something HAS changed - and not just for Xenos.

[KageSora]

It's not really semantics that are unimportant, though.

 

If the "end goal" of the game were to breed lineages then yes, things that hamper that would be objectively negative impacts for all players (including those not yet to that "stage" because it would be intended for them to eventually reach it)

 

If that is not part of the intended flow of gameplay for all users but is instead a type of gameplay users can pursue if they want, things that hamper it can't be said to have an objectively negative impact on the game--just on players who have a certain playstyle.

 

Which does get frustrating when you're not being catered to, but again--if the change is intentional because dragons being overbred was negatively impacting other areas of the game and other styles of play I wouldn't expect it to get reversed.  Further tweaked to try and balance it if the intensity of the change is too much at most.

 

Which was my point--not that you can't discuss the change but I don't think you should assume this will be "resolved" (in that your personal playstyle will get easier again at the potential expense of other playstyles) unless this is some sort of actual genuine bug or accidentally over-powered tweak (which I personally am not convinced it is).  I say this as a lineage builder myself.

 

Something was tweaked, so now you have to lean more into the waiting game aspect is a core element of the game--otherwise you'd be able to just grow your dragons without time limits like "can't hatch/mature before 4 days on timer no matter how many views".

 

Obviously we can only speculate, but I would guess personally that TJ has been monitoring things behind the scenes and seeing people complain about xeno walls (and others--xenos were never the only breed to wall the AP off, in fact there's still walla now quite often just more variety in what's causing the wall) and made some changes behind the scenes to try to balance things better overall (even if it's "worse" for people who want to breed every week)

[laevsk]

KageSora, I realize that you really believe in what you're saying and that's fine. That's YOUR experience. I accept that it's valid for you. 

 

But whether it's "stage" or "choice" still means nothing in the context of this thread. Many players get to a point/stage/choice where they are breeding, and recent breeding ratios have changed. That's the important part of this thread. So I am respectfully bowing out of that part of the conversation - while acknowledging that your topic is important to you but not to this thread overall. Thank you.

[Sketch]

Hi! I breed my dragons a lot because it's fun to make pretty lineages and share them and the dragons I like with others, and is a neat core feature of the game. Many breeds would be completely inaccessible without it. 

They have all absolutely been tweaked in terms of breeding success to a depressing degree in the last several weeks and it has destroyed my motivation to continue onward in many of my metallic projects which were once my main muse. It is exhausting and upsetting to almost run out of Purples when you have over 200 of them, just to get an occasional common out of my Golds and Silvers. 

 From what I've seen, breeding chances may be affected by population, hence why newer breeds produce more frequently. It's also made Xenowyrms breed atrociously worse than they did a few months ago. I breed a lot for people who request and have been fighting with a lot of pairings for weeks. I didn't get anything from four of them with Omens and fertility yesterday for someone, which really sucks because they wanted it for their Halloween breeding project, and creating projects is one of the most popular things to do during the holidays. I'm honestly afraid we're going to only see a bunch of clutches of two eggs this year to "try and curb the ap-walling".

 It's just bumming breeders out. I would love more insight into what's actually going on because I've spent a lot of time and energy playing this game and I adore it, and I really don't want to see it take the wrong steps and hurt its fanbase.

 

[BringsTheSnow]

I have also seen a dramatic drop in eggs being produced upon breeding. Specifically, I am agreeing that there are more "no egg" and "no interest" results from breeding than there were a few weeks or a month ago.

 

I usually breed to help with other people's lineages (such as in the Breeding, Gifting thread here on the Forums or upon request on Discord), in adition to breeding I do for my own lineages. This is affecting almost every breed of dragon except for the commonest of commons. My Black Teas still seem to be producing eggs fine but now I am extremely worried about getting any other breed to move forward my checker lineages. 😬

[inghelene]

From my pow, I’m extremely happy about the lack of xeno walls, but still think breeding might have been hit a bit too hard in general.

Breeding is a core feature of the game, and will never clog the biomes, just ap.

If breeding a common/uncommon egg to a friend or to a trade is likely to result in no eggs the majority of the time, then I assume things might currently be a bit too strict.

And from my experience, trying to breed bsas, like reds, this seems to require way more attempts than before.

Edited October 23, 2023 by inghelene

[Stormphoenix42]

My uninformed two cents: I don't think it was breeding as a whole that was impacted, but possibly something to do with the ratios? I've recently bred my entire flamingo group twice (around 400 pairs each time) and didn't get a single no-egg result - which is typical for them as they're a pretty common breed that doesn't seem to be "popular" for lineages. I wonder if other massbreeders (blacktips, carmines, etc.) are seeing the same thing?

Edit: To clarify, these are all PB flamingo pairs. I don't have as much data for Flamingos x other breeds.

 

I do agree that no-egg results in general seem to be more frequent lately, even with fertility. It would be nice if we could get some information on what changed, even if it's not going to be reversed.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Stormphoenix42

[trystan]

after reading through this, i've realised i've had less successful breedings in the last few weeks.  i don't breed a LOT, but just this past saturday, my upside-down mints didn't give me an egg, as they've done all the previous times i've bred them.  my Stat x Celestial pairing this week didn't give me an egg at all, even though it's done so in the past.  and i do have a Xeno spiral i'm working on - my current dragon grew up on September 17, and all the breedings since then - even with fertility - haven't given me an egg yet. 

i don't remember the messages though, if there was no interest or just no egg.

as has been said above, i agree that something has changed, and it's quite puzzling to me as well.

[Brite]

Okay, thank the Gods I'm not the only one experiencing this. My lineage project has halted because I haven't had a single successful egg from my pairs in over a month...

[Diggie]

The carmine massbreeder here! I usually average in the high 93%'s, low 94%'s (+/-1%) as far as successful eggs bred when I breed through my hoard. I noticed that it dipped down a notable 4-5% a few months back--the August 23rd breeding--to 89% and commented on it because that was the first time in 2 years it had done so. The September 11th breeding stayed at 89% (I'm rounding, but both actually had the same percentage to the tenths place). The wave that went through yesterday, however, did pop back up to 92%, so I'm hopeful that my stats are just a couple of unfortunate fluke breedings. Or that if there were changes, it's evened out ratio-wise. Considering how common carmines are, I'm a little surprised they don't breed nearly perfectly. 

 

For context on my numbers: I had 20 no-eggs in the 89% breedings, which differed by a singular pairing in pair numbers, and only 17 in the 92% with a pair number difference of nearly +30 between August and September. The numbers I post usually omit the non-pb carmines and any unnamed pairs, but I add them in later on a second spreadsheet. The numbers I am using here are from the second spreadsheet. Even after all of these breedings that amount to more than 500 carmines in total over the course of 3 months, I have been unable to get my carmine and prize checker to make a prize. 

 

Honestly, I've noticed in my non-carmine breedings that it's difficult to get eggs out of the xenos in particular, but I've also struggled with others like alcedines. I don't keep any notes on those, though, so any evidence I have for that is largely just vague impressions and frustrations. 

 

TLDR: Carmines dropped in breeding stats for a hot second, then popped back up. I think that to some degree, whatever caused that odd drop has sort of evened out (at least for commons). There isn't enough information from one person's notes (of one particular breed, no less) to draw any conclusions, that's just bad statistics, but I think that there was definitely something that changed that primarily impacted uncommon sand rarer, and is still in some way in effect.

[trystan]

totally forgot to mention, the other day i bred a pair of Pinks and used fertility.  No egg. (i don't remember the message though)

[blinkdog]

I've also been having more trouble breeding reds and pinks lately - even with fertility. No eggs, even though they were successful! Hopefully all this unsuccessful breeding of commons/popular pairs will even itself out soon.

[FuecocoBoi09]

my 2 reds didn’t breed

[laevsk]

6 hours ago, inghelene said:

Breeding is a core feature of the game

 

I'm glad you brought this up..😁 ..thank you!

 

From the intro page of the Dragon Cave site (what you see when you aren't logged in):

 

 

Breeding lineages IS a core feature of the game, so when breeding is compromised (beyond the normal parameters) it affects the game overall.  Understanding the recent breeding changes is important as those changes may alter the forward paths of many players.

[11th]

Because most of my massbreeds cover a large variety of pairings (I usually breed my CB name codes), I haven't noticed too much of a change in the number of eggs being produced overall. (Stats below.) I have, however, seen folks struggle to breed eggs that normally would not have posed much trouble before.

 

Quote

(Note: Pairs were bred on Aug 25th, but I didn't include it due to not tracking "no egg" vs "no interest", explaining the drop in "no interest" on Oct 1st.)

 

I have been struggling with getting PB Seasonal eggs from my spiral project since the switch to Autumn, with all breedings using Fertility. It took 4 (+1) breedings to get one egg. (Parent, Sept 26th. Child, Oct 19th.) Several users bred a bunch of Seasonals (100+ eggs) to try getting a name coded Summer for a user at the end of season, which I'm worried may have thrown things off... I would usually expect to have 3-4 Gens by now. :s I also have an Autumn x Ember project planned for after Halloween that I'm worried about as a result.

 

It's one thing when a typical common/uncommon is being a little stubborn, but for breeds with limited windows (Seasonals, Lunar Heralds, Gemshards...), getting nothing for several weeks can set back a project by months, especially for Seasonals where the next window is nine months away. I also do a lot of Winter x holiday projects -- two breeds that have limited breeding windows -- so I really can't afford for them to go infertile over a single massbreed. ^^;

 

Quote

I wonder if other massbreeders (blacktips, carmines, etc.) are seeing the same thing?

I'm not a single-target massbreeder, so this is an extremely small sample size, but I have noticed that my PB Blacktips are gradually producing less.

 

Blacktips:
Aug 13th, 2/2
Aug 25th, 1/2

Sept 2nd, 0/2 (Might have been 1/2, but dead eggs would be cleared by now...)
Sept 30th, 1/3 (1 new pair w/ Fert)
Oct 11th, 1/3
Oct 20th, 0/3

https://dragcave.net/progeny/ARTUS Last egg: Aug 25th
https://dragcave.net/progeny/kukxo Last egg: Aug 25th
https://dragcave.net/progeny/EGGYM Last egg: Oct 11th

Not PB: https://dragcave.net/progeny/Fojyq
3/3 eggs with Diamondwing mate (2 Diamondwing, 1 Blacktip)

Some other common breeds that have historically produced well are still producing decently:
Aria, Blue-Banded, Carmine, Royal Crimson, Spotted Greenwing.

Edited October 23, 2023 by 11th

[animatedrose]

I've definitely noticed that breeding success has dipped on my scroll. Almost all of my lineage projects have ground to a halt under a current 2ish-month streak of "no egg". Almost all of the breeds involved are common or uncommon (xenos, teimars, florets, razorcrests, galvanics, falcs, etc). I don't breed my rares much anymore aside from my prize but he's a butt naturally so his fails don't count. There has definitely been some level of tweak that hit way more than just xenos ratio/breeding-wise. That or this is the most massive coincidence ever.

 

I don't mind needing to lean into the waiting aspect. DC is a patience game. But the frustration of EVERYTHING failing consistently, almost to the point where I can pre-predict it ("oh, watch this give no egg. OMG, NO EGG, WHO COULD HAVE POSSIBLY GUESSED IT?!!") then...yeah, something might be off. Rares and maybe uncommons, I can understand...but commons failing so much so often?? Uhhhhh...

 

Yeah, whatever got tweaked might need retweaking. This might be a bit much. Hopefully stuff actually starts producing again soon. Kind of sad to see my lineage projects just sit in total "no egg" death for so long, not even any fail eggs. 😕

[purplehaze]

I breed my z-code dragons frequently. They represent all breeds, but mostly commons. I can't honestly say that I have had a huge uptick in failed breedings over all, but what I do seem to notice is that a pair that fails will then fail repeatedly. Some that have been steady pairs for a long time have now failed 5 or 6 times in a row.

My Split dragons used to breed like rabbits, though, and now I can sometimes breed a dozen or so before I get an egg. I don't think Splits are overpopulated, either.

So I am not quite sure what is happening, but something does seem to have changed. I don't miss the constant wall of Xenos in the AP, but getting rid of it seems to have had pretty far-reaching consequences.

[FuecocoBoi09]

6 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

I breed my z-code dragons frequently. They represent all breeds, but mostly commons. I can't honestly say that I have had a huge uptick in failed breedings over all, but what I do seem to notice is that a pair that fails will then fail repeatedly. Some that have been steady pairs for a long time have now failed 5 or 6 times in a row.

My Split dragons used to breed like rabbits, though, and now I can sometimes breed a dozen or so before I get an egg. I don't think Splits are overpopulated, either.

So I am not quite sure what is happening, but something does seem to have changed. I don't miss the constant wall of Xenos in the AP, but getting rid of it seems to have had pretty far-reaching consequences.

i miss the constant wall of Xeno s in the ap