Gather eggshell - glowback BSA

[Darth Krande]

It has been brought up several times that somehow an egg could be added to our dragon collection, just like freezing S1 and S2 hatchlings is a possibility. So -why not enlist glowback pygmies to help in that?

 

The dragon description says they like to gather shiny things, so here's the BSA idea: within one day after a specific dragon hatched on your scroll, you could send one or more of your glowbacks to pick up the egg shells.  They would return with an empty shell that has the stats of the dragon when it hatched.  

 

Requirements:

- a given number of adult glowbacks on your scroll

- a healthy egg hatch within 24 hours before the BSA on your scroll

- the hatchling still on your scroll and alive (and not, say, zombified!) although it can be frozen

 

Bsa name: GATHER 

Bsa cooldown: one week per glowback

Limit: should there be one?

Does not work on: soft eggshells, dead eggs (successful eggcracking might be ok) any hatchling not on your scroll at the time, any hatchling you got after it hatched. 

 

As for the number of glowbacks who need to cooperate in gathering the egg shell, my first guess was 'three' but it'd also make sense if it would depend on the shell size. 

 

 

 

[StarlightLion]

Conditional support on this one; I'd adore the chance to get eggs on our scrolls as part of our collections, there's such beautiful egg sprites that we can't currently collect and that always feels self-defeating when this is a sprite collection game. However there are other egg-collection suggestions that I'd like more than this one - we can freeze hatchlings externally to any collected dragons, and the idea that egg/shells would need a specific BSA to accomplish just doesn't mesh with that fact imo. That said, if a BSA was the only way TJ would implement it, then all aboard to BSA town

 

tl;dr - prefer non-BSA method, but otherwise yes please I want eggs

[HeatherMarie]

4 hours ago, StarlightLion said:

tl;dr - prefer non-BSA method, but otherwise yes please I want eggs

 

Pretty much this. I think it'd be much simpler and more logical to simply extend the freeze mechanism we already have, but if a BSA makes it more likely to actually *happen* then sure!

 

That said, I'm not sure I get the reasoning for all the conditions? Is there are reason the glowback wouldn't be able to collect shell pieces if the hatchling is no longer on your scroll (or is dead/zombified)? I mean, presumably the shells would be there if it hatched on your scroll, even if the hatchling isn't there. 

[seventeendeer]

22 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

That said, I'm not sure I get the reasoning for all the conditions? Is there are reason the glowback wouldn't be able to collect shell pieces if the hatchling is no longer on your scroll (or is dead/zombified)? I mean, presumably the shells would be there if it hatched on your scroll, even if the hatchling isn't there. 

 

Seconded, I'm not sure what the point of having all these conditions is. Freezing hatchlings has no drawbacks, so I think it would be a bit odd if freezing eggs was made overly finicky.

 

Support for the suggestion overall though! I always liked these egg-'freezing' suggestions that are really just putting the shell back together. Not incredibly convenient compared to freezing hatchlings, but on the other hand we would be able to get both a 'frozen' egg and a hatchling out of one normal egg, which I think is neat! Saves a bit of trouble when going for a full sprite set for rares.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm indifferent to the suggestion - but have the glowback's creators been asked about this - I thought that was essential, and that anyway BSAs weren't generally added t existing dragons? when this kind of suggestion has come up before it's usually been met with "so design a new breed with this BSA"...

[Impulsive_Egg]

I adore this idea, despite the proposed conditions. I would be happy with either it being a BSA or just an extension of the freeze mechanic, but the BSA idea is really cute imo

[missy_]

I want to collect egg sprites, but I prefer the freezing eggs suggestion. This BSA seems overly complex.

[DragonLady86]

I just want the egg sprites. I don't care how at this point.

[inghelene]

I really adore this concept. 
To freeze an egg would mean forever trapping the hatchling within the egg, which seems utterly cruel. I’d much more like this approach to keep the egg sprites.

[_Charky]

I'll happily support any egg sprite method at this point, and if this is the one which gets rid of the strange "moral issues" arguments, then so be it.

[Maru-chan]

I support this suggestion as it stands. It's well thought-out and seems compatible with the site's policy. Also, I really like the idea of being able to gather egg sprites (which deserves to be less-than-easy, imo) and the extra incentive for collecting Glowbacks. 

 

I think the simple option of freezing eggs would mess with the egg limit too much.

[KageSora]

3 hours ago, Maru-chan said:

I think the simple option of freezing eggs would mess with the egg limit too much.

 

Out of curiosity, how?

 

If the concern is people freezing CB eggs instantly to cycle the cave it could have the same 5 hour delay that abandoning has.

 

Other than that, what would be the difference between getting a bunch of insta-hatchable/incu-hatchable eggs off the AP, hatching them right away, and then freezing them immediately other than a very brief delay?  (And BSA use for incu-hatch but that's negligible to many users who have a large number of Reds)

Edited April 20, 2023 by KageSora

[Fuzzbucket]

And I imagine there would be a limit on the number you can freeze, as there is on freezing hatchies.

[StarlightLion]

On 4/22/2023 at 2:43 AM, Fuzzbucket said:

And I imagine there would be a limit on the number you can freeze, as there is on freezing hatchies.

Exactly this. Assuming we can instantly freeze CB eggs, we'd still only be able to cycle a certain amount (I forget what the freezie limit is, but I'd imagine that egg and hatchling freezing would be shared rather than having separate limits, assuming it's simply a user function and not a BSA). At this point, the ability to cycle the cave is something we need, and this does offer a neat way to limit that ability to prevent rarehunting abuse.

[inghelene]

If we freeze, I’d say it also shouldn’t count on your “grown dragons”. 

[DragonLady86]

20 hours ago, inghelene said:

If we freeze, I’d say it also shouldn’t count on your “grown dragons”. 

Why? Hatchlings do.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'd agree with @inghelene An egg that hasn't even hatched isn't in ANY way grown.

[inghelene]

On 4/26/2023 at 3:10 PM, DragonLady86 said:

Why? Hatchlings do.

I’d not consider a frozen egg as a grown dragon, and it would just be the best way to farm a higher number without using an egg slot for more than a couple of seconds.

[KageSora]

38 minutes ago, inghelene said:

I’d not consider a frozen egg as a grown dragon, and it would just be the best way to farm a higher number without using an egg slot for more than a couple of seconds.

 

Well, that would only be the case if this sort of thing were implemented without limits.  And I really cannot imagine it being added with no restrictions of any sort.

 

Personally, I've always figured a freeze option like hatchlings would work better than a BSA, and just assumed it'd share the freeze limit--therefore in that case you'd get a maximum of 18 per 2 weeks at platinum level, assuming you didn't freeze any hatchlings.  You can easily hit that freeze limit in fairly little time these days with the state of the AP, especially if you have a number of red dragons to incuhatch things off the AP.

 

For a BSA, it'd naturally limit you by cooldown, possibly in conjunction with requiring you to already have a set number of adults per use.  That right there limits who can use it endlessly to "people who put in a large amount of time to build up an absolutely massive army of dragons".  That could also be gotten around by it being a scroll-wide cooldown, where it uses up all your adults at once.

[Fuzzbucket]

2 hours ago, KageSora said:

 

Well, that would only be the case if this sort of thing were implemented without limits.  And I really cannot imagine it being added with no restrictions of any sort.

Exactly. It would simply not be OK for people just to up and freeze dozens and dozens. 

 

2 hours ago, KageSora said:

 

Personally, I've always figured a freeze option like hatchlings would work better than a BSA, and just assumed it'd share the freeze limit--therefore in that case you'd get a maximum of 18 per 2 weeks at platinum level, assuming you didn't freeze any hatchlings.  You can easily hit that freeze limit in fairly little time these days with the state of the AP, especially if you have a number of red dragons to incuhatch things off the AP.

This would be what would work for me.

 

 

[inghelene]

4 hours ago, KageSora said:

 

Well, that would only be the case if this sort of thing were implemented without limits.  And I really cannot imagine it being added with no restrictions of any sort.

 

Personally, I've always figured a freeze option like hatchlings would work better than a BSA, and just assumed it'd share the freeze limit--therefore in that case you'd get a maximum of 18 per 2 weeks at platinum level, assuming you didn't freeze any hatchlings.  You can easily hit that freeze limit in fairly little time these days with the state of the AP, especially if you have a number of red dragons to incuhatch things off the AP.

 

For a BSA, it'd naturally limit you by cooldown, possibly in conjunction with requiring you to already have a set number of adults per use.  That right there limits who can use it endlessly to "people who put in a large amount of time to build up an absolutely massive army of dragons".  That could also be gotten around by it being a scroll-wide cooldown, where it uses up all your adults at once.

If hatchlings and eggs share freeze, you’ll still save on egg slots as you can get your 18 twice a month without ever hatching a single egg. It’s another way to effortlessly save on egg slots if you are farming for a higher rank. And whilst you can argue frozen hatchlings should or shouldn’t count, the “I picked it up and clicked freeze” feels pretty far off from “grown dragons”. Otherwise it would warrant a name change to “dragons who can’t grow further”.

 

I also imagine it could be used to clear ap, which I’d highly welcome with the xeno invasion. … given it doesn’t share kill slot instead of freeze slot… 🤔

 

Returning to the BSA point though, I think the strength of a bsa is that some people probably don’t want the children of their lineages frozen as eggs. They can’t control this, and really shouldn’t, but I think an egg linking to the hatchling/dragon would be easier to swallow. And less anger makes happier times, maybe even an actual implementation.

The downside is that you’ll need additional code’s generated for the egg. Which I’m not sure is an actual issue, but I’m tossing it out there.

Edited April 28, 2023 by inghelene

[Fuzzbucket]

13 minutes ago, inghelene said:

Returning to the BSA point though, I think the strength of a bsa is that some people probably don’t want the children of their lineages frozen as eggs. They can’t control this, and really shouldn’t, but I think an egg linking to the hatchling/dragon would be easier to swallow. And less anger makes happier times, maybe even an actual implementation.

 

I couldn't agree less.   If you dump an egg you lose any rights at all over it. I don't think freezing it with a BSA would cheer up those who seem unable to accept this.,

[DragonLady86]

15 hours ago, inghelene said:

If hatchlings and eggs share freeze, you’ll still save on egg slots as you can get your 18 twice a month without ever hatching a single egg. It’s another way to effortlessly save on egg slots if you are farming for a higher rank. And whilst you can argue frozen hatchlings should or shouldn’t count, the “I picked it up and clicked freeze” feels pretty far off from “grown dragons”. Otherwise it would warrant a name change to “dragons who can’t grow further”.

 

I also imagine it could be used to clear ap, which I’d highly welcome with the xeno invasion. … given it doesn’t share kill slot instead of freeze slot… 🤔

 

 

I can't imagine many new players would use all thier freeze spots on  eggs to get a higher trophy level. They joined because they want dragons and would first need to discover freezing and trophy levels which a completely new player isn't going to do as soon as they join. AND if they are here to collect dragons, frozen eggs are much less cool. Also, its only 10 for those with no trophy. Those of us who can do 18 have been around awhile and going to be more picky about what we want.

 

Basing an argument over a small number that MIGHT abuse a feature is silly.

[inghelene]

14 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

I can't imagine many new players would use all thier freeze spots on  eggs to get a higher trophy level. They joined because they want dragons and would first need to discover freezing and trophy levels which a completely new player isn't going to do as soon as they join. AND if they are here to collect dragons, frozen eggs are much less cool. Also, its only 10 for those with no trophy. Those of us who can do 18 have been around awhile and going to be more picky about what we want.

 

Basing an argument over a small number that MIGHT abuse a feature is silly.

There were two points to why I think the ability to freeze an egg should not count:

One is that it can potentially be abused, but my real argument is that there’s no reason for it to count as you never hatched an egg and never grew a dragon.

In other words, it’s the lack of any solid reason as to why it should count that makes the “can be abused” the only argument I can really make in addition to the unlogical link of a frozen egg being considered a fully grown dragon.

 

When making suggestions, our goal is to get them implemented. Or possibly argue against something that’s really off. But for me, I’m really into the idea of keeping eggs, and I want to explore the different issues that might have prevented a previous implementation of this long suggested feature. I therefore welcome you to make a counter argument, because if you can think of a really good argument as to why freezing a dragon from the point you pick it up should be counted as growing a dragon, I’m all ears and will be rooting for your solution.

Otherwise, I have two other suggestions:

- Freezing an egg can only be done after a set time, regardless of cave or ap. (Can be 10 min for all I care)

- You can’t abandon a frozen egg. Frozen eggs must be cracked and count as a kill like any regular egg. 
These only remain relevant for a freeze though. The use of a bsa is enough hassle and wouldn’t need such an additional hassle.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

3 minutes ago, inghelene said:

There were two points to why I think the ability to freeze an egg should not count:

One is that it can potentially be abused, but my real argument is that there’s no reason for it to count as you never hatched an egg and never grew a dragon.

In other words, it’s the lack of any solid reason as to why it should count that makes the “can be abused” the only argument I can really make in addition to the unlogical link of a frozen egg being considered a fully grown dragon.

I'm not concerned about the "abuse" side of it, but a freeze is a freeze and should count as a freeze, against the normal freeze limits; a hatchie IS different from an egg (you can name one, it;'s a THING - but not an egg - that points up the difference rather neatly.)

 

3 minutes ago, inghelene said:

Otherwise, I have two other suggestions:

- Freezing an egg can only be done after a set time, regardless of cave or ap. (Can be 10 min for all I care)

Yes - but NOT just 10 mins. At least the 5 hours that is the normal CD for CB eggs. I would begin to worry about the AP here. I can see a ghastly scenario where a discord group decides to clear it by snatching and freezing the lot. Such a group of platinum players freezing their 18 eggs each would ruin things for other players.

 

3 minutes ago, inghelene said:

- You can’t abandon a frozen egg. Frozen eggs must be cracked and count as a kill like any regular egg. 

If you mean literally cracked, that would destroy part of the reason for freezing them - to have that pretty sprite,

 

3 minutes ago, inghelene said:

These only remain relevant for a freeze though. The use of a bsa is enough hassle and wouldn’t need such an additional hassle.

Why is a BSA a hassle ? (not that I support one; it should be a simple freeze.)