Gather eggshell - glowback BSA

[inghelene]

8 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I'm not concerned about the "abuse" side of it, but a freeze is a freeze and should count as a freeze, against the normal freeze limits; a hatchie IS different from an egg (you can name one, it;'s a THING - but not an egg - that points up the difference rather neatly.)

 

Yes - but NOT just 10 mins. At least the 5 hours that is the normal CD for CB eggs. I would begin to worry about the AP here. I can see a ghastly scenario where a discord group decides to clear it by snatching and freezing the lot. Such a group of platinum players freezing their 18 eggs each would ruin things for other players.

 

If you mean literally cracked, that would destroy part of the reason for freezing them - to have that pretty sprite,

 

Why is a BSA a hassle ? (not that I support one; it should be a simple freeze.)

Even if an egg is frozen to keep the sprite, people can still make a mistake and freeze an egg they already had. Thus I think it’s important to be able to get rid of the egg once you discover it. 
 

When I said bsa was a hassle, I meant to say that since you actually need to hatch the egg, it doesn’t really make sense to implement the same limitations as suggested for a freeze. And since freezing has been suggested before, I feel the bsa has a higher chance for implementation at this point.

[Fuzzbucket]

41 minutes ago, inghelene said:

Even if an egg is frozen to keep the sprite, people can still make a mistake and freeze an egg they already had. Thus I think it’s important to be able to get rid of the egg once you discover it. 

I don't know wrath you mean - you said the egg needed to crack to be allowed to be frozen. That would mean you couldn't have the sprite of the actual egg.,And sure - they can freeze an egg by accident - people do it as things stand with hatchies. We have to take responsibility for our own mistakes, and I don't see how "being able to get rid of the egg"" would make a difference. You can kill it, if necessary, after a mistake.

 

41 minutes ago, inghelene said:

When I said bsa was a hassle, I meant to say that since you actually need to hatch the egg, it doesn’t really make sense to implement the same limitations as suggested for a freeze. And since freezing has been suggested before, I feel the bsa has a higher chance for implementation at this point.

 

You don't need to hatch an egg to freeze it, unless you go the BSA route.

[StarlightLion]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

You don't need to hatch an egg to freeze it, unless you go the BSA route.

That's literally what they were saying. If the BSA is implemented, then the extra limitations - freeze slots, cooldown between picking up an egg and being able to freeze it, etc - become more cumbersome and unnecessary than helpful for regulation. If the BSA is implemented.

[KageSora]

23 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Yes - but NOT just 10 mins. At least the 5 hours that is the normal CD for CB eggs.

 

I would imagine an 10 minute wait would be for things nabbed out of the AP so that you can't just rapid-fire freeze up to 18 eggs from the AP to move it along in the hopes of finding something else.  I would imagine that the 5 hour cooldown would still apply to eggs obtained from the biomes, same as abandoning.

 

35 minutes ago, inghelene said:

One is that it can potentially be abused, but my real argument is that there’s no reason for it to count as you never hatched an egg and never grew a dragon.

 

If you happen to spy one and move fast enough, you can grab a hatchling out of the AP and immediately freeze it, thus having it add to your counter without having to hatch an egg or grow a dragon.  They're much less common, yes, but they still count despite you doing absolutely no work nor growing them in any way.

 

Actually, honestly, I think we're all getting pretty off-topic.  This specific objection should probably be brought to a thread about egg freezing because the topic here is an egg re-building BSA.  Which means your entire argument about them not counting because they're obtained without work if you just freeze isn't applicable since in this case you'd still have to hatch the egg before you could apply the BSA.

 

(Actually, that linked egg freezing thread brings up a reason why a BSA to repair the eggshells has an issue--it's getting two sprites for the price of one.  You get a hatchling and a frozen egg from the work of only hatching a single egg.  Meanwhile, a pure freeze is one frozen egg for one living egg, a direct 1:1 exchange.)

[Fuzzbucket]

Fine. I still think a simple "Freeze" action on eggs, and for that to be exactly the same as a freeze hatchie - just shows as an action, and counts against your freeze limit but NOT as a grown dragon, is the way to go.

2 minutes ago, KageSora said:

 

I would imagine an 10 minute wait would be for things nabbed out of the AP so that you can't just rapid-fire freeze up to 18 eggs from the AP to move it along in the hopes of finding something else.  I would imagine that the 5 hour cooldown would still apply to eggs obtained from the biomes, same as abandoning.

Should be 5 hours, like any other egg, for exactly that reason.

 

2 minutes ago, KageSora said:

Actually, honestly, I think we're all getting pretty off-topic.  This specific objection should probably be brought to a thread about egg freezing because the topic here is an egg re-building BSA.  Which means your entire argument about them not counting because they're obtained without work if you just freeze isn't applicable since in this case you'd still have to hatch the egg before you could apply the BSA.

Absolutely   - good point ! 

2 minutes ago, KageSora said:

 

(Actually, that linked egg freezing thread brings up a reason why a BSA to repair the eggshells has an issue--it's getting two sprites for the price of one.  You get a hatchling and a frozen egg from the work of only hatching a single egg.  Meanwhile, a pure freeze is one frozen egg for one living egg, a direct 1:1 exchange.)

 Another VERY good point.

[KageSora]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Fine. I still think a simple "Freeze" action on eggs, and for that to be exactly the same as a freeze hatchie - just shows as an action, and counts against your freeze limit but NOT as a grown dragon, is the way to go.

 

Just to point out, frozen hatchlings do count as a "grown dragon" for your "grown dragons" counter.  You can test that our yourself by releasing a frozen hatchling if you have any that you don't need.  (I double checked it by releasing a frozen zombie-fodder hatchling)

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, KageSora said:

 

Just to point out, frozen hatchlings do count as a "grown dragon" for your "grown dragons" counter.  You can test that our yourself by releasing a frozen hatchling if you have any that you don't need.  (I double checked it by releasing a frozen zombie-fodder hatchling)

 

Oops - yes I know. In my earlier post I said that the criterion should be whether or not it can be NAMED - and an egg can't, so shouldn't count as an adult.

[Darth Krande]

(Lol for some reason I wasn't getting notifications and thought there's no activity in this thread.)

 

As said earlier, the BSA is NOT suggested as a freeze. If you want to get rid of your fresh CB egg before the cooldown or you want to reduce eggs in the AP by freezing them, then sorry, this BSA suggestion is not for you. 

This suggestion is for people who want to save a pretty egg shell after the baby dragon hatched out of it. I don't think it's too bothersome on a site that's focused on hatching dragon eggs, maybe I'm wrong. 

 

Codes-wise, I think it could get the original dragon's code with an expansion. Like, if the hatchling is /view/abcde, then the empty egg shell could be /view/abcde-egg. This way there wouldn't be any confusion with the codes.

 

Getting an extra dragon (sprite) 2-for-1 : yes, we would get an extra one. There are BSAs where you get an entire, breedable, nameable dragon for your BSA success, here you'd only get a pretty, unnameable addition to your collection. The biggest thing you can do to it is sort it to a specific point on your scroll or add it to a group. 

 

You have valid points whether or not a frozen egg should count as an adult dragon on your scroll. A gathered-together egg shell is not a dragon and the over-use of this BSA would not influence any of the statistics here. The numbers will go based on the hatchling if you choose to raise it. 

 

 

Why the hatchling needs to be on your scroll at the time: because that's how you can find it...? You can't usually do BSA to a dragon not on your scroll. 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Darth Krande

[KageSora]

18 minutes ago, Darth Krande said:

Getting an extra dragon (sprite) 2-for-1 : yes, we would get an extra one. There are BSAs where you get an entire, breedable, nameable dragon for your BSA success, here you'd only get a pretty, unnameable addition to your collection. The biggest thing you can do to it is sort it to a specific point on your scroll or add it to a group.

 

The thing about that, though, is that those are either single-use, or to a maximum limit.  It doesn't matter if you have 3k of each of the Trio dragons, you can never have more than three GoN on your scroll at once.  If you use Adventure and succeed, those dragons can never use Adventure again.  Same with Summon for the Sinomorph.  Every time you want another Scourgekeeper you need to collect at least one more Adventure-capable dragon, every time you want another Sino you need to collect an entire additional set, one of each color of the Zyus.

 

If you want this to be on-par with the current BSAs that allow you to get 2:1, then every time the BSA succeeds those dragons would have to be permanently disabled from using it ever again, or there would need to be an incredibly restrictive scroll-wide limit of how many "frozen" eggs you can have total.

 

You could argue that it's alright because they're just eggs that you can't do anything with, and that is a fair argument--but it should still not be overlooked that the existing BSAs that allow you to obtain a new dragon are extremely restricted.  I also think that it's worth noting that the Scourgekeeper is the only dragon obtained via BSA that can breed true.  GoNs can't breed more GoNs, and Sinos can't breed more Sinos.  GoNs and Sinos can breed other dragons (and the GoN, that's how you get the Avatar dragons), but they can't be summoned once and then used to just keep pumping out more eggs of their kind.

 

(And I think it's also worth nothing that the Scourgekeeper, despite being breedable, is a two-headed therefore it's got a vastly restricted breeding pool compared to a GoN or a Sino)

[Darth Krande]

If that is a problem, the BSA can be given a long cooldown. But I don't think it would be, as the egg shells don't add to the owned dragon counts (while GoNs, Sinos etc do) and neither do they influence the breed ratios. 

 

(Compare: freezing eggs with the hatchie still in it would keep it in the breed count. Presumably.)

[KageSora]

27 minutes ago, Darth Krande said:

If that is a problem, the BSA can be given a long cooldown. But I don't think it would be, as the egg shells don't add to the owned dragon counts (while GoNs, Sinos etc do) and neither do they influence the breed ratios. 

 

(Compare: freezing eggs with the hatchie still in it would keep it in the breed count. Presumably.)

 

Depends entirely on how TJ would want to implement it, if he did do so at some point.  If he wants it to count towards your total dragon count, then it won't matter if the egg is obtained via freezing or via a "put the shell back together" method, it will count.  If he does not want it to count, then it won't matter the method because, again, he would code things so that it doesn't count.

 

I think, therefore, the idea of "should it count or not" should be considered a secondary issue simply because in the end whatever TJ thinks is best is the way he'd go about doing it if he decided that collecting the eggs was a thing we should be able to do.

[Guillotine]

For counting as an adult... we do have an example of frozen egg behaviors already on-site: the Leetle Tree. If that counts as an adult, all frozen eggs should.

[KageSora]

16 minutes ago, Guillotine said:

For counting as an adult... we do have an example of frozen egg behaviors already on-site: the Leetle Tree. If that counts as an adult, all frozen eggs should.

 

Ooooh, that's a good point.  It'd probably be handled however the Leetle Trees are handled.  I, however, don't know if it counts or not--and I'm not about to release mine just to try and find out

[Darth Krande]

3 hours ago, KageSora said:

 

Ooooh, that's a good point.  It'd probably be handled however the Leetle Trees are handled.  I, however, don't know if it counts or not--and I'm not about to release mine just to try and find out

It has a breed-specific limit just like GoNs or cb Xmas dragons have. If it counts towards your allowed tree count, I think it counts. 

Also, dead eggs count for one day, too. (They count into the alloted egg slot at least.)

[KageSora]

1 minute ago, Darth Krande said:

It has a breed-specific limit just like GoNs or cb Xmas dragons have. If it counts towards your allowed tree count, I think it counts. 

Also, dead eggs count for one day, too. (They count into the alloted egg slot at least.)

 

Well, while they're still growing your CB holiday dragons count towards their breed-specific limit as well but do not count towards your "grown dragons" count.  So, Leetle Trees having their own specific counter doesn't really clarify if they count as a "grown dragon" or not.

[MissK.]

6 hours ago, KageSora said:

 

Ooooh, that's a good point.  It'd probably be handled however the Leetle Trees are handled.  I, however, don't know if it counts or not--and I'm not about to release mine just to try and find out

 

It does count as a grown dragon. AoND can give stats for your scroll, and it tells me I have a total of 6,017 Non-Growing dragons, where the breakdown includes the Leetle Tree (they have a separate category for it along with adults and frozen hatchies). This total is the same as the grown dragons counter on my scroll.