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Meh

ANSWERED:Spinel breeding bug

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According to the spriter "PB Spinels are already supposed to have a chance to produce either (at least, that's what I thought was the case last I talked to TJ on them) and if they're not, for whatever reason, that's a problem and I fully support fixing that." 

 

While all PB pairings breed are greens. Since the spriter's wish is for PB Spinels to be able to produce reds, and all they produce since November 2017 are greens, this is not intentional behaviour (based on what the spriter says) and therefore is a bug or coding error that needs to be fixed. 

 

It's not a ratios need time to even out case.

The problem will soon be a year old. 

Moreover, at first, reds would breed true (produce reds). Something was tweaked between October and November and the mechanic broke, replacing all possible redXred results from red to green.

Also, breeding greens first and then reds still results in reds breeding greens only. 

 

 

Please don't confuse this bug report thread with the Spinel mechanic change suggestion thread. This is NOT a suggestion but a problem report based on on-site behaviour contradicting the spriter's official intention.

 

references from a suggestion thread, that support the buggy nature of this occurence: 

 

 

 

Right now we have NO example of a PB red Spinel born after the beginning of November 2017. Last I know about was Laid on:Oct 14, 2017

 

Feel free to toss in your PB progenies, for more reference material.

 

For now we have VixenDra's redXred progeny: https://dragcave.net/progeny/HwUbg 

And I don't breed much, so mine is tiny but still confirms the redXred results in just greens since November 2017https://dragcave.net/progeny/U5gz3 

Another green from 2 reds: https://dragcave.net/progeny/En0F5

Edited by Meh

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Unfortunately there is nothing saying that the spriter's intention has to be implemented as the actual mechanic, so I'm not sure it can be considered a bug, really. You've got your research right though.

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The way it was put though, implies that the spriter and TJ had an agreement about both variants being obtainable from red x red and that's it's not just some wish expressied in the breed's thread that TJ simply ignored.

The breed itself also mentions greens as being OCCASSIONALLY born "Occasionally, they can be born with iridescent pale green scales instead of the usual rich red-violet.". And the actual game is often or in all captivity cases of intraspecies breeding(intraspecies is the normal default anyone would expect as a first guess)... 

 

And the fact reds were producing reds at first, and the change to 100% greens was sudden and wasn't followed with replacement of previous reds with greens (see how the accidental new breed was handled in July - the accidental breed's eggs were replaced with one of the intended breeds, such mistakes don't seem to be let be anymore)  and the spriter implied that neither the initial and the current behaviour is how the breed is supposed to behave, and how less logical the current way is than the previous, I'm quite convinced this is worth a report for TJ to review, because all clues point at an accidental mistake he could make while tweaking something in the game's code. To me it looks most of all like he wanted to allow reds breed greens but made a mistake and accidentally broke the part that coded a red result possibility. 

I expect TJ to either acknowledge the mistake and fix it, or to admit it is a change she had decided on and implemented. For now, the report seems all valid to me and there are more clues that this is not how the breed is intended to work rather than that this is how the breed is intended to work. Because the only clue for this being intentional is a suspicion that TJ maybe disregarded the spriter's wish, and that there was a change in the behaviour at all. That's not convincing clues to me. 

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On 8/30/2018 at 3:14 PM, MhKhu said:

And the fact reds were producing reds at first, and the change to 100% greens was sudden and wasn't followed with replacement of previous reds with greens... [*snip*]

This kind of behavior is normal for changes on the site. See this white Stripe from Ribbon Dancer, for example. (Ribbon Dancers now breed green Stripes exclusively, as far as I know.)

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5 minutes ago, Dekka said:

is it only certain breeds that produce 100% green?? i just bred one to test, and : https://dragcave.net/lineage/bqUKf it came out red.

I believe they're talking about purebreds. Spinel x spinel produces always greens.Other breeds vary

 

Example, I just bred this: https://dragcave.net/lineage/oCuSD

Edited by Nightwalkerkey

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9 hours ago, Dekka said:

is it only certain breeds that produce 100% green?? i just bred one to test, and : https://dragcave.net/lineage/bqUKf it came out red.

 

The problem is in red Spinel X red Spinel only. So far I have seen not a single proof that there was any red produced from such a pairing anytime after November 2017 (that's important, because in October -or at least in the first half of October- they seemed to produce only reds, I don't know the very day when that swapped but on November 7th they already produced a green instead). 

 

 

About Stripes, isn't that an example that can be outdated by now? it's from old DC. Spinels were a very young breed and just form the last year.  DC is changing a lot about handling some things, so it's hard to rely on that example... Not that this would change the fact that still it doesn't look intentional for 2 reds to breed nothing but greens now, against all the remaining, pretty strong clues. 

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TCA said that was not what was intended, but if TJ decided it was OK, then he wins.

 

PM him if you like - but until he changes it, that's the way it is.

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13 hours ago, olympe said:

This kind of behavior is normal for changes on the site. See this white Stripe from Ribbon Dancer, for example. (Ribbon Dancers now breed green Stripes exclusively, as far as I know.)

Stripes are different.  a new breed ALWAYS only produces whites until it's programed to the right colors.  Or at least they used to, I don't breed mine so maybe the coding on them has changed to update automatically now. 

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Hum. Is this intended? https://dragcave.net/lineage/Q85ZV

It's a green from a NOT EARTH-ALIGNED breed. Granted, the other parent is a green Spinel, but shouldn't the other parent's affinity (or lack thereof) affect the colour?

 

edit: I forgot I also have this for a while already: https://dragcave.net/lineage/VpMQf

but I couldn't find any post about this ... (everyone is only talking about purebreds)

Edited by Ruby Eyes

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44 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Hum. Is this intended? https://dragcave.net/lineage/Q85ZV

It's a green from a NOT EARTH-ALIGNED breed. Granted, the other parent is a green Spinel, but shouldn't the other parent's affinity (or lack thereof) affect the colour?

 

edit: I forgot I also have this for a while already: https://dragcave.net/lineage/VpMQf

but I couldn't find any post about this ... (everyone is only talking about purebreds)

 

 

Seems it is intended according to the breeding I did to test this....

I bred a green with neutral parent to mimic your dorsal pairing: https://dragcave.net/lineage/zJsFS

And then a Life parent to see if it wasn't the absence of element at play: https://dragcave.net/lineage/3GZ9c

 

Green and green. Maybe someone who breeds spinels more could test whether green in this case is merely a possibility or if it's the rule.

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UNhappy belated birthday to this tremendous Spinel breeding problem...  >:/

it's still there, not a single magenta from my magentaXmagenta pair for an entire year:/

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Yeah, I'd love this to change. I vainly tried to get red from green x green for months before giving up.

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Green Spinels breeding true with other breeds is intentional, purebreds being only green and never red is (at least from my end) not.

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So, in other words, there's no chance of green Spinels ever having red offspring? (Unless, once this PB = green bug is taken care of, it's a red Spinel x green Spinel pairing?)

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That is correct on both counts.

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At least this should allow for red x green Spinel checkers with a red base only - at least eventually. Anyway, thanks for clarifying!

Edited by olympe

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It looks like the red x red breeding glitch got resolved, judging by the egg I just found in the AP. No greens, so I can't see what happens with those.

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