Enable "Reaction" feature on forums

[Sazandora]

Eh... I guess a Like-button wouldn't do that much harm, but I'm against adding any other reactions OR "likes" affecting the order of posts. Let's not turn this site into Facebook. I like how people actually talk in here instead of just pressing one button and then going away, having never said a thing.

[LibbyLishly]

7 hours ago, Confused Cat said:

 

"Not even a reaction? Everybody probably hates me "

"Someone is sad because I grabbed a Gold in the cave? WAT?"

"TJ, TJ, we need an 'angry' reaction! TJ, we need a 'congrats' reaction! TJ, why isn't there a 'me too' reaction? TJ, give us a 'nope' reaction! TJ, I absolutely need a 'the first part of this post was nice because of the cat photos, but in the second part there was a Star Wars spoiler and so I didn't really like it' reaction!"

"People in some thread liked a post saying X more than a post saying Y, so the logical conclusion for this topic is..."

SO MUCH THESE.

 

Honestly, end of the day, I'm fine with various reactions being added, even a like button - but I do not want them in the Suggestions forum. It gets heated in the News threads sometimes, too, so maybe not there either.

 

If it's possible for those a subforum to have the feature turned off while it's turned on for the others, then I'm all for this. Otherwise it's just going to be toxic.

[Fuzzbucket]

12 hours ago, TJ09 said:

The forum software has the ability to "react" to posts (https://invisioncommunity.com/news/product-updates/new-reactions-r1016/). I saw someone that someone wished they could heart a post, etc, so I'm interested in seeing if others would find value in turning this feature on.

 

The set of available reactions is configurable, though the defaults are:

 

• Like
• Thanks
• Haha
• Confused
• Sad

I can't begin to tell you how much I would hate this. It totally degrades discussion and serves no useful purpose. You like a post - say so and say why. I have actually received warns for posting just an emoticon as a response, and the explanation given was that it added nothing to the thread. Exactly so. Please don't go this route.

Edited December 22, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[DragonLady86]

11 hours ago, purplehaze said:

Where would these "reactions" appear? Is it like a regular post? Or is it like on Facebook?

I use a few emoticons in my posts but I really don't see the point of using these reactions. If you care enough to respond to something you should be able to take the time to write a few words. I guess I am an old fogey, but it strikes me as "dumbing down" responses. I see all kinds of "likes" on Facebook that leave me shaking my head. @DragonLady86 is that what it means? To just acknowledge that you have seen something? I see it used in places that "liking" the post doesn't really seem appropriate. Things like "My grandmother died this morning" get "likes" and that just seems totally wrong to me.

Yeah, that's where that comes from.  People either that didn't learn to adjust to the new options (since "Like" used to be the only choice) OR too lazy to wait for the popup menu to chose something besides Like.   I do try to remember to at least use the sad one for things like your example.  but otherwise "like" works for everything.

[Daypaw]

I'm not a fan of the whole likes/reacts thing in general; people tend to focus on the number of reacts they get entirely too much.

 

As an aside, if this does get implemented, PLEASE tell me we wouldn't get bombarded with notifications every time someone slapped a react on something we said. I'm fine being notified of a quote/ping or a reply or something practical, but I don't need to know every time someone pushes a button. 

[HeatherMarie]

There have been a lot of very good concerns brought up here, which makes me much more wary of this then I was at first. I hadn't actually looked at the link in the OP... Please please *NO* to any sort of "recommended" posts or "activity streams"! Nothing that favors reacted posts in what I see when I look at the forums. And definitely no notifications every time someone reacts to your post, I get enough notifications as it is.

[TJ09]

29 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

There have been a lot of very good concerns brought up here, which makes me much more wary of this then I was at first. I hadn't actually looked at the link in the OP... Please please *NO* to any sort of "recommended" posts or "activity streams"! Nothing that favors reacted posts in what I see when I look at the forums. And definitely no notifications every time someone reacts to your post, I get enough notifications as it is.

Those are both separate, unrelated features of the software that have explicitly been turned off.

 

Recommended posts do have a possible use in the future as a way of "pinning" a post to the top of a large thread. This is useful for fast-moving threads where important information may get buried quickly (e.g. announcement threads).

[TJ09]

2 hours ago, fuzzbucket said:

I can't begin to tell you how much I would hate this. It totally degrades discussion and serves no useful purpose. You like a post - say so and say why. I have actually received warns for posting just an emoticon as a response, and the explanation given was that it added nothing to the thread. Exactly so. Please don't go this route.

They add nothing to the thread when done in a heavyweight manner (a full-on post that bumps the thread). Reactions avoid pretty much all of the reasons that emoticon-only posts are considered spam--they don't interrupt reading the thread, they don't bump a thread, etc.
 

Reactions are certainly not a substitute for real discussion, but I don't think there's any evidence thus far to support claims that they would replace real discussion. In places like suggestions, they aren't going to be particularly useful for the same reasons I've described in the past, but that doesn't mean they'd be actively harmful, and it doesn't mean the forums as a whole wouldn't benefit.

[purplehaze]

16 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

-snip-

Reactions are certainly not a substitute for real discussion, but I don't think there's any evidence thus far to support claims that they would replace real discussion. In places like suggestions, they aren't going to be particularly useful for the same reasons I've described in the past, but that doesn't mean they'd be actively harmful, and it doesn't mean the forums as a whole wouldn't benefit.

What benefit do you see from them? Because I am missing it if there are any real benefits. And that is a serious question, not just a snide comment.

Edited December 22, 2017 by purplehaze

[LibbyLishly]

24 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

 In places like suggestions, they aren't going to be particularly useful for the same reasons I've described in the past, but that doesn't mean they'd be actively harmful, and it doesn't mean the forums as a whole wouldn't benefit.

I do still think "likes" could be harmful in Suggestions, giving certain opinions the appearance of being more valid or popular due to getting tons of likes based on knee-jerk reactions before people consider the other side, much like polls used to do, and causing people to say inane things like "Well, that post got 107 likes, and the counter argument only got 3, so clearly the counter argument is wrong." I don't think they'd be problematic anywhere else though (aside from MAYBE News, but those threads move so fast I don't know that it would matter).

Edited December 22, 2017 by LibbyLishly

[laertid]

Too many emojis would be confusing in my opinion. Why does someone's post on the forum make you sad? Angry? Happy? Running around waving hands with cheeseburger in your mouth and Santa hat on your head? Too many interpretations, honestly.

 

I'll support only "like" option to be left, so we can "upvote" the posts we, well, like. Not to make them popular in means of actually voting, just to say "I agree with you, bro, I see you here, nice opinion", and so on.

 

Upd: and, of course, "likes" absolutely should not change post orders in the thread or automatically make some post "pinned".

Edited December 22, 2017 by laertid

[Ember_Silverly]

I have frequently wanted to post my support of a post that accurately summed up my thoughts on a situation but didn't because the only thing I could think to post was 'agree' which is not allowed because it does not contribute to the conversation. So yes, I would like this feature to be added if only so I can feel like I'm giving support to someone who stated exactly what I was thinking. 

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, LibbyLishly said:

I do still think "likes" could be harmful in Suggestions, giving certain opinions the appearance of being more valid or popular due to getting tons of likes based on knee-jerk reactions before people consider the other side, much like polls used to do, and causing people to say inane things like "Well, that post got 107 likes, and the counter argument only got 3, so clearly the counter argument is wrong." I don't think they'd be problematic anywhere else though (aside from MAYBE News, but those threads move so fast I don't know that it would matter).

 

This, very very much this.

 

I'm very unclear what "benefit" TJ sees in this, other then a simple/lazy way to express reactions without posting, which I honestly don't see as a "benefit" when there are so many ways that can go wrong. I've seen it on Facebook so, so often, the "reactions" do indeed replace any real, meaningful comments, and often can be taken in a bad way. I've posted on Facebook asking for advice or opinions, or trying to open a discussion about a topic that's important to me, and I get several "likes" but no comments at all. I'm honestly unclear why TJ thinks that wouldn't happen here?

 

I don't see any benefit at all to people "upvoting" a suggestion-idea but *not* posting to say why they like it or how they envision it being implemented. If simple "agree" posts are spam because they add nothing to the discussion, how is a "reaction" different? Just because it doesn't "bump" the post? It's still a one-worded (or one-imaged) response that adds nothing meaningful to the discussion.

[Ariento]

I've been on other forums that use likes/post ratings before. Generally, they do reduce the number of small posts (like "agree") that add nothing substantial to the conversation. People, if they have more to say than a single post rating can get across, will post their additional thoughts.

 

Example:

OP: I like unicorns! (Agree x3, Disagree x1)

Second Poster: Unicorns are my favorite mythological creature, because they're basically magic horses! My family owns a stable, and I've grown up around horses, so they're like my favorite animal.

Third poster: I really don't like the emphasis on purity that the unicorn myths have. I prefer kitsunes, because I love the trickster archetype.

 

I don't think negative ratings are a good idea - one of the forums mentioned above does have ratings solely meant as insults (it's... that kind of site, the tone is completely different than dc forums). I'd also stay away from ratings that could be used as an insult or in a good way (maybe instead of sad, something like "sympathy", which can be used on posts like "my eggs died" still)

 

Generally, I think they're a good idea, though maybe disable them in suggestions.

[Jazeki]

I...dunno if I would use this if it was implemented, but I don't really see the benefits or the necessity of adding this. I can certainly see the downsides and how it would skew discussions.  Plus, it opens users up to being able to target others or be targeted based on their reactions if it does what the example shows.

[Alrexwolf]

I feel as though time would be better spent on other things versus trying to add this and make it work/tweak it over time when most people are on the fence or against it.

 

I'm not very for it either, if I'm being honest. I don't see a huge influx of "agree," or short posts here at all - I don't see the need for this or benefit it would bring. The only benefit it might bring is to users who lurk and aren't active anyway - and while I'm not saying they don't ~deserve~ a feature to get more involved, I feel like we should be discouraging people from staying out of the conversations.

 

When quick reactions are allowed, it can be difficult to get opinions of the more neutral people. Often, the only people who post versus "like," are those with extremely positive or negative reactions. Even if someone doesn't fully support or fully disagree with a suggestion, they may have input that's valuable to the community as a whole. I would hate to see that discouraged. Many times, I've seen someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight, so to say, bring up a very important detail that was overlooked by the OP or other posters. I feel this type of discussion would be degraded by a reaction feature.

[Nine]

You only have to take a look at places like Reddit, Imgur, tumblr, and Facebook to see how upvotes and likes can quickly become the sole focus of conversation for many people. People post memes, reaction images, and the same jokes ad-nauseam just to accumulate those thumbs up emotes; from a social perspective, it's probably very fulfilling to see your post and think you're popular and/or cool with so many people. But then actual conversation tends to dwindle in favor of 'whatever will resonate with more people and get me popularity points'. There is no denying that some people may feel less compelled to share their actual thoughts and opinions if they feel it may be unpopular and not well received: likes and whatnot can reinforce that (again, just look at any hivemind social site). Forums are already like that in some degree-- people can be easily intimidated to not post things that conflict with artists, staff, or mods. Feeling pressured to perform for the thumbs up is rarely a benefit to anyone.

 

Likes and ratings do serve a great function for some sites, don't get me wrong. I find that very popular, busy websites with lots of traffic, like online multiplayer games, benefit from that stuff in a way. You've got so many people coming in and out, opinions have likely been shared before and being able to 'like' things helps prevent clutter of similar topics and rehashing of the same opinions in a short time. Flight Rising had 'likes' at one time and I thought it was great, because that site's forums tend to be extremely spammy and topics/conversations come and go quickly.

It's easy for these sites to suffer from people 'performing for the likes' too, but when you're just one username among thousands online in the same forum, personal reputation doesn't hold as much weight. DC's forum is quite different-- a much smaller more residential userbase, less anonymity, slower pace-- so I don't think ratings would serve the same positives as they do in those massive forums. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Nine

[Nyxity]

I really don't see the point in them, truthfully. I mean, I have read the post about cutting down on the single word or emote posts, but many people on here don't really tend to do those anyway.

[DragonLady86]

Huh, I still don't really care either way, but I'm actually surprised at how many "Do NOT wants" this topic has seen.  As I said before, I've seen people ask/wish for it often so I really expected a more positive response.  o.O

 

As a side note, I don't think I've EVER seen one of TJ's suggestions so thoroughly shot down. Kinda hope this topic is kept even if the suggestion becomes a non-feature.  Useful to be able to point new users that feel the forum is unfriendly because their suggestions weren't liked to a topic showing even the site creator isn't immune to that. /end off-topicness.

[Fuzzbucket]

18 hours ago, purplehaze said:

What benefit do you see from them? Because I am missing it if there are any real benefits. And that is a serious question, not just a snide comment.

 

That's what I want to know.

 

16 hours ago, Marie19R said:

 

This, very very much this.

 

I'm very unclear what "benefit" TJ sees in this, other then a simple/lazy way to express reactions without posting, which I honestly don't see as a "benefit" when there are so many ways that can go wrong. I've seen it on Facebook so, so often, the "reactions" do indeed replace any real, meaningful comments, and often can be taken in a bad way. I've posted on Facebook asking for advice or opinions, or trying to open a discussion about a topic that's important to me, and I get several "likes" but no comments at all. I'm honestly unclear why TJ thinks that wouldn't happen here?

 

I don't see any benefit at all to people "upvoting" a suggestion-idea but *not* posting to say why they like it or how they envision it being implemented. If simple "agree" posts are spam because they add nothing to the discussion, how is a "reaction" different? Just because it doesn't "bump" the post? It's still a one-worded (or one-imaged) response that adds nothing meaningful to the discussion.

 

because this....

 

4 hours ago, Nine said:

You only have to take a look at places like Reddit, Imgur, tumblr, and Facebook to see how upvotes and likes can quickly become the sole focus of conversation for many people. People post memes, reaction images, and the same jokes ad-nauseam just to accumulate those thumbs up emotes; from a social perspective, it's probably very fulfilling to see your post and think you're popular and/or cool with so many people. But then actual conversation tends to dwindle in favor of 'whatever will resonate with more people and get me popularity points'. There is no denying that some people may feel less compelled to share their actual thoughts and opinions if they feel it may be unpopular and not well received: likes and whatnot can reinforce that (again, just look at any hivemind social site). Forums are already like that in some degree-- people can be easily intimidated to not post things that conflict with artists, staff, or mods. Feeling pressured to perform for the thumbs up is rarely a benefit to anyone.

 

and especially this.

 

They add nothing. Except utter boredom.

[Aleoleo]

19 hours ago, TJ09 said:

Recommended posts do have a possible use in the future as a way of "pinning" a post to the top of a large thread. This is useful for fast-moving threads where important information may get buried quickly (e.g. announcement threads).

 

Would it be possible to let mods, and mods only, like and/or recommend posts they find important, and disable it for the rest of us mere members?

 

As for the rest of this suggestion:

No, please. Simply put, I don't want to feel pressured to "like" or "be liked".

Edited December 23, 2017 by Aleoleo

[Jazeki]

I would be ok with @Aleoleo's compromise and agree with what all of @Nine posted. I've posted things on social media before in the hopes of getting replies (since I have lots of followers) and I've only received likes instead. It makes it hard to know if people are actually paying attention or just going "Oh. A post from Jazeki. Better like."

 

@DragonLady86 I can't tell if you're being silly (even with the emoji), but this isn't the first time that TJ has butted heads with users on a suggestion and most of the userbase doesn't go out of its way to be unfriendly. I think this is a very friendly forum that is also highly opinionated. It's just that most people commenting have been around DC for a while and can bring their outside site experience into forming their opinions.

[Fiona]

21 hours ago, TJ09 said:

They add nothing to the thread when done in a heavyweight manner (a full-on post that bumps the thread). Reactions avoid pretty much all of the reasons that emoticon-only posts are considered spam--they don't interrupt reading the thread, they don't bump a thread, etc.
 

Reactions are certainly not a substitute for real discussion, but I don't think there's any evidence thus far to support claims that they would replace real discussion. In places like suggestions, they aren't going to be particularly useful for the same reasons I've described in the past, but that doesn't mean they'd be actively harmful, and it doesn't mean the forums as a whole wouldn't benefit.

 

This is why I'm rather in favor of this suggestion. People sometimes want to express approval of a post but don't have actual discussion to add. This would give them an avenue that doesn't require stretching the thread with posts that doesn't really add constructively to the discussion. It should help keep the threads tidy and easier to understand.

[DragonLady86]

6 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

 

 

@DragonLady86 I can't tell if you're being silly (even with the emoji), but this isn't the first time that TJ has butted heads with users on a suggestion and most of the userbase doesn't go out of its way to be unfriendly. I think this is a very friendly forum that is also highly opinionated. It's just that most people commenting have been around DC for a while and can bring their outside site experience into forming their opinions.

Maybe a little, though as I said I don't remember seeing it before.  Also, I don't think the forum is unfriendly, but many new posters seem to feel that way, particularly when posting in suggestions.  Especially if it's something that's come up a lot so older members have more reasons for saying "NO".  Catching from the wilderness for an example.

 

I mean, I don't see what having the ability to "like" posts would harm.  And it does have the plus side of, "you've already said everything I want to say and likely better than I could but I want to add my support anyway" type deals.  I just don't think I would use it myself. 

[TJ09]

On 12/22/2017 at 11:59 AM, purplehaze said:

What benefit do you see from them? Because I am missing it if there are any real benefits. And that is a serious question, not just a snide comment.

I don't have any strong interest either way; the first post explains that I'm doing this because others have brought it up and given that I have a more complete picture of what the forums are capable of, I figured it would be useful to point out this capability in case there was broad enough interest to turn it on. Though, I've seen the feature in use in several other places (such a discord) and found that it positively contributed to discussion. The claims in this thread seem to believe that contributing to a thread is zero-sum—that adding reactions inherently detracts from the number or quality of posts. That is simply not true; in general the vast majority of people simply "lurk" and do not contribute. Adding a form of light-weight contribution will more likely allow these people to participate than it will lower the effort put in by existing contributors.

 

11 hours ago, Nine said:

You only have to take a look at places like Reddit, Imgur, tumblr, and Facebook to see how upvotes and likes can quickly become the sole focus of conversation for many people. People post memes, reaction images, and the same jokes ad-nauseam just to accumulate those thumbs up emotes; from a social perspective, it's probably very fulfilling to see your post and think you're popular and/or cool with so many people. But then actual conversation tends to dwindle in favor of 'whatever will resonate with more people and get me popularity points'. There is no denying that some people may feel less compelled to share their actual thoughts and opinions if they feel it may be unpopular and not well received: likes and whatnot can reinforce that (again, just look at any hivemind social site). Forums are already like that in some degree-- people can be easily intimidated to not post things that conflict with artists, staff, or mods. Feeling pressured to perform for the thumbs up is rarely a benefit to anyone.

Upvotes are "important" on those sites because they have a direct impact: more upvotes or likes = more distribution, more visibility. The forums' version of the feature is more like Discord. I haven't seen any cases of people fishing for discord reactions, and things always remain chronological (rather than ranked by number of upvotes or something). I don't even believe there's account-wide stats for someone to point to and look at.

 

6 hours ago, Aleoleo said:

Would it be possible to let mods, and mods only, like and/or recommend posts they find important, and disable it for the rest of us mere members?

That is exactly how the recommended posts feature works.

 

4 hours ago, Jazeki said:

@DragonLady86 I can't tell if you're being silly (even with the emoji), but this isn't the first time that TJ has butted heads with users on a suggestion and most of the userbase doesn't go out of its way to be unfriendly. I think this is a very friendly forum that is also highly opinionated. It's just that most people commenting have been around DC for a while and can bring their outside site experience into forming their opinions.

Indeed. I tend to throw suggestions out there as passing ideas come. In those situations, I rarely have a strong attachment to the suggestion—and I usually expect it to be something people don't want or I'd have just done it, but sometimes the community surprises me.