Breed rarity by season?

[Ruby Eyes]

I think the biggest issue would be that the ratios of breeds are possibly somewhat tied to each other, e.g. 100 commons being born allow 1 rare to be born, or somesuch. The exact ratios and formula are of course TJ's secret, and I don't think he'd be fond of changing that after all these years. I mean, I wouldn't be fond of that if this was my program either

</speculations>

Edited December 13, 2017 by Ruby Eyes

[Dragon_Arbock]

@Marie19R I think their idea was that breeds will go through periods of being less common and more common. It would be possible that while, say, Nebulas might be rarer in X month or season, the numbers of Daydreams specifically go up because they're 'in season' or whatever you would call it. It wouldn't be by ratios exactly, there would be a modifier set on certain breeds like maybe [ratio spawn rate x 1.5]  or [ratio spawn rate x 0.5] or something like that. You are right that making one breed less common wouldn't automatically make another more common, but in this case, another breed would be specifically designated to be more common in X time period.

 

That being said, might not be the best way to get the biomes moving, but I like the idea for the touch of realism it would add to the game.

Still think more biomes or an extra row would be the preferred gameplay route, but I'm flexible on this.

[olympe]

I'm not quite sure that one extra row is enough, tbh. Maybe there's a way to show even more eggs to pick from? Sure, cherry-picking for rares/uncommons could increase somewhat, but not by much. On the other hand, commons would be that much easier to find, which should benefit everyone.

[Dragon_Arbock]

3 minutes ago, olympe said:

I'm not quite sure that one extra row is enough, tbh. Maybe there's a way to show even more eggs to pick from? Sure, cherry-picking for rares/uncommons could increase somewhat, but not by much. On the other hand, commons would be that much easier to find, which should benefit everyone.

I know the way GPX handles their egg spawns, but might not be something everything would like-

I believe they do the same thing in that everyone picks from the same pool of eggs, and they're all generated hourly or something- but, every time you refresh, they eggs that show up are different.
I could see how some might abuse this and just refresh only for rares, but I have to wonder how many rares get generated now that nobody ever sees cause nobody's taking the three eggs that sit in the biomes.

[HeatherMarie]

I don't think rares not being seen in the biomes is a problem in that way.. If I understand what little we know about the ratios correctly, if there are eggs that sit in the biome-backlog for the whole hour and then get poofed or whatever at the top of the hour, the algorithm will simply spawn more of that type to make up for it, in order to keep the ratios stable. I could be wrong, but from what I've read that seems to be how it works.

 

I definitely do not like the biomes to show different eggs every time you refresh. I think there would be a lot more then "some" people abusing it, because honestly the majority of biome hunters are most likely hunting for specific breeds, and will refresh until they find that breed. It's also a lot less fair in general I'd think, since it'd be complete random luck what eggs you see on each refresh, so there would be some who would see that rare egg and be able to grab it and someone would never get a chance at grabbing it at all because they just wouldn't even be shown it.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I know that's how ratios work, but it's quite a waste have eggs be generated that you can't actually get to. What you want could be in the pool, but since nobody's taking eggs, could take a lot longer for you to find it.

There's no perfect solution, but it would be nice to be able to hunt at my own pace without having to wait for others to move eggs for me. I myself can only hold eight eggs, so I can only take an egg so few times to try and see if what I want appears.

[LibbyLishly]

2 hours ago, Marie19R said:

I definitely do not like the biomes to show different eggs every time you refresh. I think there would be a lot more then "some" people abusing it, because honestly the majority of biome hunters are most likely hunting for specific breeds, and will refresh until they find that breed. It's also a lot less fair in general I'd think, since it'd be complete random luck what eggs you see on each refresh, so there would be some who would see that rare egg and be able to grab it and someone would never get a chance at grabbing it at all because they just wouldn't even be shown it.

 

Agree! The eggs change out every five minutes. This is a perfectly suitable speed, even if it sometimes makes hunting exasperating when no one wants the three eggs that showed up four minutes ago. I am completely opposed to them changing with every refresh.

[Dragon_Arbock]

5 minutes really isn't fast enough. If we must keep the system the same, make it every minute.

It really is disruptive- with the time being as short as 5 minutes, it's easy to get distracted by something else I'm working on and to miss the shuffle. OR I can stare at the biomes page for 5 minutes, waste a lot of time, and then be disappointed by the three new eggs that get put up.

 

Pretty much 5 minutes is too short of a time to do other things and DC, and 5 minutes is too long of a time to waste staring at a page. Would rather it be 1 minute.

[Jazeki]

How is a minute any better than 5 minutes if 5 minutes is both too short and too long to wait? 

[Dragon_Arbock]

10 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

How is a minute any better than 5 minutes if 5 minutes is both too short and too long to wait? 

 

I can justify wasting the time if I get to see 5x the eggs in the same amount of time.

[Confused Cat]

57 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

Pretty much 5 minutes is too short of a time to do other things and DC, and 5 minutes is too long of a time to waste staring at a page. Would rather it be 1 minute.

 

 

 

I'm not sure this would be a good idea.

I'm assuming there's a limited number of eggs generated per hour, and the number is big enough for the biomes not to run out of eggs, but not a lot higher than that. (I think I've seen empty biomes sometimes at the end of an hour, but very rarely.) The more often the eggs in a biome change, the more likely it is that every existing egg has been shown at least once. Common eggs will often be seen without being picked up, but rares will be gone the moment they appear in the biome for the first time. So if the biomes change every minute instead of every five minutes, all the rare eggs that were generated for one hour will be gone five times faster than before. Of course there might still be some at xx:57 sometimes, but if you want better chances, you'd have to make sure you can hunt during the first few minutes of every hour if you want a CB Gold.

I don't know if this could be solved by TJ simply generating more eggs per hour. There would be more eggs, but not more scroll space, so... probably not more commons picked up? I imagine it might be bad for the ratios.

[Dragon_Arbock]

@Confused Cat The only time I ever see Golds is on the hourly spawn. Same goes for most rares. I can camp a biome shuffle for every 5 minute interval in an hour and not even see the copper I'm looking for. It'd be one thing if I got out-competed, but not even seeing something I think is a bigger problem.

We don't know a lot of things, but I can bet a decent number never get shuffled into view.

 

The ratios system is kind of a mess, really. Set rarities I think would be better, but I doubt that will happen any time soon.

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

I can justify wasting the time if I get to see 5x the eggs in the same amount of time.

If hunting is a waste  of time that needs justifying, I have to wonder why anyone would play.

 

5 minutes isn't long to wait for a shuffle, and very often someone does pick something up and get a move anyway. And a seasonal variation won't make much difference to that. The blockers will be different blockers, is all.

[LibbyLishly]

3 hours ago, fuzzbucket said:

If hunting is a waste  of time that needs justifying, I have to wonder why anyone would play.

 

5 minutes isn't long to wait for a shuffle, and very often someone does pick something up and get a move anyway. And a seasonal variation won't make much difference to that. The blockers will be different blockers, is all.

Exactly this.

[Ruby Eyes]

6 hours ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

The only time I ever see Golds is on the hourly spawn.

One of those I gave away is one I saw and caught at :57, so 3 minutes before the hourly. Things like that wouldn't happen often, I'd wager (which is why I remember the minutes ), but they do happen.

[HeatherMarie]

Yeah, really not liking the idea of a shuffle every single minute. @Confused Cat brings up a very good point, we of course don't know exactly how many eggs are generated at the hour, but shuffling every single minute would most likely only lead to any *wanted* eggs being picked up much faster, and the last half hour or so of every drop would just be all the super-commons that no one wants. (Also, I have never seen a Gold in the biomes at all, but I have seen multiple coppers, golden wyverns, and even a few silvers that were nowhere near the top of the hour.)

 

 

[Jazeki]

9 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

Yeah, really not liking the idea of a shuffle every single minute. @Confused Cat brings up a very good point, we of course don't know exactly how many eggs are generated at the hour, but shuffling every single minute would most likely only lead to any *wanted* eggs being picked up much faster, and the last half hour or so of every drop would just be all the super-commons that no one wants. (Also, I have never seen a Gold in the biomes at all, but I have seen multiple coppers, golden wyverns, and even a few silvers that were nowhere near the top of the hour.)

 

 

Plus I think eggs that aren't picked up go poof at the shuffle, so who knows how many eggs will poof if they shuffle every minute. That's bound to throw things out of whack.

[StarSea]

"I can justify wasting the time if I get to see 5x the eggs in the same amount of time."

If that's your reasoning for wanting 1 minute shuffles, then what's to stop someone from trying to suggest 1 second shuffles with the same reasoning? "I get to see so many more eggs, this is definitely better!"

More isn't always better... having 1 minute shuffles is going to need a lot more reasoning than just "more eggs!" because, as had been said before, the more often things are shuffled the more likely all of the rare eggs will get shown before the end of the hour and the more likely the caves will end up just completely commons left. Just because you don't see golds and silvers when you camp every 5 minute mark doesn't mean they're not there. If you're only checking on the shuffle, then you're completely missing the other 48 minutes of the hour that people have probably been picking up eggs and maybe even revealing rares. That is not a good way to base your stats at all.

[Guillotine]

1 hour ago, Jazeki said:

Plus I think eggs that aren't picked up go poof at the shuffle, so who knows how many eggs will poof if they shuffle every minute. That's bound to throw things out of whack.

Pretty sure eggs only get deleted at the hourlies; if you're not seeing things after a five-minute shuffle it's because they're stagnating.

 

I really think the only solution is to rework the rarity system in some manner.
 

[Dragon_Arbock]

28 minutes ago, StarSea said:

"I can justify wasting the time if I get to see 5x the eggs in the same amount of time."

If that's your reasoning for wanting 1 minute shuffles, then what's to stop someone from trying to suggest 1 second shuffles with the same reasoning? "I get to see so many more eggs, this is definitely better!"

More isn't always better... having 1 minute shuffles is going to need a lot more reasoning than just "more eggs!" because, as had been said before, the more often things are shuffled the more likely all of the rare eggs will get shown before the end of the hour and the more likely the caves will end up just completely commons left. Just because you don't see golds and silvers when you camp every 5 minute mark doesn't mean they're not there. If you're only checking on the shuffle, then you're completely missing the other 48 minutes of the hour that people have probably been picking up eggs and maybe even revealing rares. That is not a good way to base your stats at all.

Somebody doesn't read- I actually did suggest having the eggs change every time you refresh, but people don't like that either.

 

There have been times I'm looking for commons and I can't find them. Most of the time the cave does not move- there's a gridlock of eggs that people just won't take. I have tried hunting at times other than the shuffles, it's been very ineffective. I've been playing for years.
I would be for anything that lets me hunt at my own pace, and not have to depend on others to move eggs for me, or the magical 5 minute shuffle. I know people on here are very stuck in their ways, but a common shouldn't be something I have to wait for. Rares, maybe, but commons?
I also don't really see how it's so bad for the rares to run out before the hour. At least people would be getting them rather than them sitting in limbo then being deleted. If throwing the ratios out of whack is the only reason people are against more rares getting picked up, maybe ratios should disappear.

 

@fuzzbucket All games are time wasters. I'm not making money off of this, I'm not getting anything else out of it. The least it can do is actually be fun and have the need to watch the clock not keep me from doing other things cause the good drops only happen 5% of the whole hour.
Lineage project and pretty sprites keep me around, but the 'gameplay' of this site is nothing that enjoyable.

 

On another note, people can not agree with my proposed solutions, but at least acknowledge that these things are a problem.

[olympe]

18 hours ago, Marie19R said:

I definitely do not like the biomes to show different eggs every time you refresh. I think there would be a lot more then "some" people abusing it, because honestly the majority of biome hunters are most likely hunting for specific breeds, and will refresh until they find that breed. It's also a lot less fair in general I'd think, since it'd be complete random luck what eggs you see on each refresh, so there would be some who would see that rare egg and be able to grab it and someone would never get a chance at grabbing it at all because they just wouldn't even be shown it.

Actually, an egg shuffle like that would, in fact, make chances more even among players with different assets/problems. Because only a very slow number of player will see that elusive CB gold at a time, they have a very high chance of getting it. Unlike now, where it's only the fastest who ever get to see, much less grab, that elusive CB gold. The shuffle would ensure that it's not only ever the same crowd who actually gets them.

 

Aaaand - if TJ made it so that you'd only get a new shuffle after at least 10 seconds, even scripters wouldn't have the incredible advantage they have now. Because the 10 seconds limit would drastically reduce the effectiveness of scripted rapid-refreshs. (At least if that's part of what these darn things do.)

[Jazeki]

 I'm not sure the point of this suggestion is really to make things fly through the cave to give better access to rares, but that seems to be what it's turning into.

 

I don't know if changing the shuffle speed will do anything to actually help people see the things they need because the cave generates according to a breed ratio. I've seen the same breeds pop up after a few shuffles.  

 

 

 

[Dragon_Arbock]

4 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

 I'm not sure the point of this suggestion is really to make things fly through the cave to give better access to rares, but that seems to be what it's turning into.

 

I don't know if changing the shuffle speed will do anything to actually help people see the things they need because the cave generates according to a breed ratio. I've seen the same breeds pop up after a few shuffles.  

 

This discussion's become something else entirely.

I still feel breed ratios are a bad idea. New breeds clog the caves, and it effectively punishes people for picking up anything else.

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

There have been times I'm looking for commons and I can't find them. Most of the time the cave does not move- there's a gridlock of eggs that people just won't take.

 

@fuzzbucket All games are time wasters. I'm not making money off of this, I'm not getting anything else out of it. The least it can do is actually be fun and have the need to watch the clock not keep me from doing other things cause the good drops only happen 5% of the whole hour.
Lineage project and pretty sprites keep me around, but the 'gameplay' of this site is nothing that enjoyable.

 

On another note, people can not agree with my proposed solutions, but at least acknowledge that these things are a problem.

It's a shame you feel that way, but I am not going to acknowledge that things are a problem when to me they aren't. I will agree that there are commons that are hard to find (balloons are a case in point for me; I needed some for a trade and it took ages.) But while hunting can be frustrating, in many ways it would be far less enjoyable to be able to pick up every egg I wanted just like that. Instant gratification wears thin pretty fast, and isn't very good for people anyway.

 

Incidentally, I'm not aware that rares get poofed.  I really doubt that happens.

[purplehaze]

51 minutes ago, fuzzbucket said:

Incidentally, I'm not aware that rares get poofed.  I really doubt that happens.

 

Even if they do poof, I'm sure they are replaced at a later drop. And they are no more likely to poof than anything else that is left over and everything would need to be replaced to keep the ratios in order!

 

edited for typo

Edited December 14, 2017 by purplehaze