Have a Discord Server

[Sapphire Ryu]

Honestly I'm a supporter of both. Discord is feature-rich and enables some people to connect through chat that otherwise wouldn't want to, and IRC can stay as the option for anyone who's fine with things as they are.

 

Discord is gaining popularity rapidly, particularly for anyone who likes games, and seeing as Dragon Cave is a web-based adoptables game, I could see it fitting in nicely. Bots work on both IRC and discord, and would serve the same purpose on both fronts.

 

On top of all that, having a discord would also increase Dragon Cave's visibility and easily draw in new users, along with possibly providing additional ways for others to become involved in helping DC by moderating the discord. It could be a testing ground for new mods for the forums, and provide another place for artists to chat, especially the ones who already use discord heavily. I don't see a lot of negatives other than the initial effort to set it up and assign 2-4 long term staff members.

[XiziX]

Full support! I love Discord as a messenger/chat!

 

The IRC hardly has anyone active in it from the times I have popped in. Normally it's just a couple mods, which can be intimidating if that's all who is active half the time. I'd always go for a Discord over IRC, it's easy to navigate, has different channels, has a chat log. Nice interactive things you can do like custom emotes. Even bots that can kill spammers.

 

Also, a clean mobile app!

 

A downside is that if you have a couple hundred people chatting in there, some things can get a bit annoying. I just feel Discord will be more widely used rather than an IRC. Or at least, easier to talk to people in. Not to mention it has a voice chat.

 

I don't think there'd ever be an official one, but I could do some trading/socializing in a Discord easy.

[Fuzzbucket]

One day, IRC is going to become completely obsolete to use because technology is moving forward . If you sit there blindly saying that IRC is the equivalent of Discord, you're going to find that you're sorely mistaken.

 

Discord is everything you have rolled into one simple app. Once you download Discord, that's it. You don't have to download anything else and frankly, everyone has a phone​ nowadays so Discord can be with you on the go.

Everyone does NOT have a phone capable of using ANY of this stuff. And many of us - including me - don't WANT that kind of phone. My only mobile use on DC is through a tablet. I am sickened by seeing everyone glued to their smartphones on the street as if being connected were all that mattered in life, and I will never use one. And I am far from alone; in fact there was an article I read the other day saying that many other people ARE beginning to get sick of it too. Hence the reintroduction of the old style nokia. I have a phone that will call or text, end of.

 

I don't support this, I think it will only divide the community further and IRC is much more convenient and easy to get started. Not to mention the sheer amount of options you have for using it: hundreds of clients, bouncers, networks, cloaks, etc. Don't like the website you use? Try a client. Don't like your client? Try another. Stuck with terminal only linux? You have irssi. Stuck on an old Wii? You can use one of the browser clients. Still have a nokia phone from late 2000s? There's even clients for those.

I agree about the dividing of the community. And I note the mention of the nokia....

What about newer members (and have a Discord) who are going into the IRC? They're going to feel intimidated by the fact there's no backlog and no one talking. And when they ask about it, you're honestly tell them that they have to download who knows how many things just to fully enjoy their experience on the site?

 

If they see that there is a Discord, they're going to go to that instead. Because it's already installed on their phone/computer, simple as that

Assuming that it is. It isn't on anything of mine, nor will it be. And I enjoy the site very much indeed without it.

 

I am - as I said - not knocking this though I do think it will divide the site further. But over and over some in this thread are saying things like "everyone wants this so why can't we have it." "Everyone", basically, that you have evidence for is maybe 15 people in this thread, another 20 in the art thread, and three people in GD who have started unofficial discords that fell over as well as one that is barely visited. (In fact, why not join that one and get going ?) While it MAY be a nice idea, it really isn't wise to try and push it as a demand from "everyone." If someone started a thread called "Let's don't have a discord" you would probably get just as many people agreeing with that.

 

tl;dr - don't hype it up as the only answer to what you want and tell everyone else they are wrong because this, this and that, that you happen to like about it. Their views are as valid as yours. I don't give a flying toss either way, and at least three people in this thread are very much against. You need to take that into account when considering its potential appeal as well as your own burning desires.

 

ETA:

Here is a quick screenshot for an idea of the setup.

Leftmost column -- servers I have joined. The small, light gray semi-circle indicates new posts in those servers. The screenshot there shows a DM.

Within the servers, channels are organized like this. White name = new posts. You can mute channels in order to hide new posts.

 

Avatars are small (and a compact, IRC-like mode can be enabled). PMing is no different from setting up a PM on IRC. Uploaded images appear as thumbnails that can be expanded when clicked. Embedded images like that can be disabled.

Actually I absolutely LOATHE the look of that. If I had ever been thinking about signing up to discord, that has turned me off for ever. Can one have a totally vanilla layout ?

Edited May 31, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[DarkEternity]

I use a ZNC bouncer to record messages that are made in the IRC that are made when I am away (when I use the IRC which is rarely except during events).

 

The probblems with a ZNC bouncer are:

• They are a pain to setup manually. FIRSTLY you need a server to run it off (obviously costing money) SECONDLY for some operating systems like debian you need to compile from source which is not user friendly for most users.
• The alternative is to use a purchased or free ZNC bouncer. These are actually massive security risks because the person you bought it from or got it 'free' from can read all your messages and everyone's messages made in the channel.
• To get ZNC to play nice with some phone apps like Colloquy you also need to install modules making it more complicated.
• It also takes up room for ZNC to archive your stuff so you need to undergo the complicated process of deleting files now and again

I like Discord because

• Everything on Discord is stored on discord. No faffing around with insecure ZNC bouncers bought from randoms who are selling your personal details and messages or ZNC bouncers that cost money
• Integrated PMing, file uploading, notifying, easy pasting of art and other services.
• You can chat in multiple channels at the same time and keep the information of what channels you are in private and you can set yourself as Offline (which you can't do on IRC)
• MOST IMPORTANTLY, PRIVACY No one can whois you to figure out when you last opened an IRC channel, no one gets to see your IP broadcasted everywhere (which the IRC regularly does unless you get a cloakor set invisible) but before you cry HOSTMASK often these are literally your internet service provider making the semblance of anonymity pointless. There have been a few cases of doxxing on IRC channels I have been on when users capture other people's IP addresses and log conversations on IRC using bouncers whilst being inactive. Posted a picture of your face a year ago? Someone who is super dedicated to the cause of doxxing you can pull that picture of your face out of the IRC from one year ago and there is nothing that the mods or the admins can do to stop them and they didn't even need to be online then (because of a bouncer) whereas with admins on discord they can clear channels of personal information and you would need a VERY specialised script to archive all that information whilst offline. Discord prevents scraping (ie - the user having access to tools that can archive absolutely everything that gets posted regardless of whether or not the moderators ban people) whereas IRC is DESIGNED to allow people in the know how to record every conversation ever made.

• Discord also has more extensive search facilities than going cross eyed on ctrl+F over a text document.
• No IRC-isms like flooding or operators getting hacked via weird methods or linesplits. Discord has two factor authentication making it more secure for people who like that sort of thing
• GUI interface. You do not need to type things like /join and /part to go anywhere (although I do have a script to auto enter channels on IRC it is relatively complicated compared to Discord)

Edited May 31, 2017 by DarkEternity

[Zeditha]

I must put in that I'm very much in favour of an official Discord server.

 

Although I haven't played around with it much since I happen to love Discord's default look, I'm sure there are other layouts.

Discord is quickly becoming the new alternative for both text and voice chat, with lots of new features built in that you don't have to faff around looking for - and with most of the IRC 'features' that were discussed earlier, I hadn't heard of any of them. They aren't 'easy to find'. They aren't built into the system and they aren't pointed out.

I guess I am saying that some people need a big red button to push to be able to find things, but remember that this site is designed for ages 13 and up. Kids can't go googling things as easily, they can't download extras. Discord can be opened in browser and that's it, or if they can get a parent's help, they can download it (and many kids already have!) and it's good-to-go from there.

 

One big thing I see as a problem, though, is that Discord is meant as a replacement for skype and teamspeak. Just look at their website.

IRC isn't like Skype and Teamspeak. Those platforms are meant for communication between small groups while playing games, not just idle chatting like (I think?) IRC is for.

 

And TBH the IRC isn't all that obvious. I've only ever poked it when the main site is down, which is the only time a link is provided without searching specifically for the IRC.

 

So... yeah a Discord server would be awesome, and I'm sure many of us would love it if one was integrated with the main site, but do we really need one? It wouldn't be a replacement for the IRC because it isn't the same thing. It's not even trying to be. Yes, it has way more features built-in (I do NOT count DLC or external downloads features of a system!) and yes, it's becoming more popular and yes, it's the newer thing.

 

Tl;dr: a Discord server would be appreciated, yes, but it's not going to replace the IRC because it's simply not the same thing.

 

 

edit - code

Edited May 31, 2017 by Zeditha

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

There is a point in saying that not many people use IRC - because many of us can't figure it out, and would be more comfortable with a Discord server. Such as myself.

 

In the DR Suggestions thread, I think it's worth noting that the servers should be of some purpose - over in that thread the use of a Discord server would be for art critique, as that is a lengthy discussion that would often be best in real-time and there's more of a formal air which could confuse critiques. I believe an art server would be perfect over there because more people would be comfortable using it, would be able to use it, such as on mobile, and it would help with lengthier critiques so as not to clutter up certain threads.

[Sundew]

Everyone does NOT have a phone capable of using ANY of this stuff. And many of us - including me - don't WANT that kind of phone.

If you don't want a smart phone, that's fine. But unless your Nokia brick can run either IRC or Discord, it isn't relevant to a discussion on which is the better option.

 

three people in GD who have started unofficial discords that fell over as well as one that is barely visited. (In fact, why not join that one and get going ?)

The current DC Discord -- that linked in our signatures -- has had >820 messages from only 25 members in the ~12 hours it has existed. For something so new, that's a lot! We are trying -- it is going.

 

Can one have a totally vanilla layout ?

There is always compact mode.

[Millennium07]

If you don't want a smart phone, that's fine. But unless your Nokia brick can run either IRC or Discord, it isn't relevant to a discussion on which is the better option.

 

 

The current DC Discord -- that linked in our signatures -- has had >820 messages from only 25 members in the ~12 hours it has existed. For something so new, that's a lot! We are trying -- it is going.

 

 

There is always compact mode.

I'm deliberately staying out of the actual conflict here, primarily because DCs fanbase (as a collective) kinda sickens me in how ungrateful it can be - both towards staff and each other - and this discussion is bordering on descending into nothing more than harsher worded variants on 'my point is better because I say so and you suck' - something both sides are guilty of (although another reason for not getting involved is that I legitimately see both sides here - I've used discord before, and agree it's easy to use, but likewise I find the IRC homely and don't even have a brick phone - I don't have one, period, although not by choice).

 

But yes, Fuzz's point does stand, because RoD literally said everyone has a phone and could take Discord with them when that, frankly, isn't true. I agree that an older phone, like Fuzz, or no phone, like me, means that even IRC wouldn't work on-the-go...but RoD was, indeed, wrong, and Fuzz was correct to point that out.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Millennium07

[Moonlight_Eevee]

But yes, Fuzz's point does stand, because RoD literally said everyone has a phone and could take Discord with them when that, frankly, isn't true. I agree that an older phone, like Fuzz, or no phone, like me, means that even IRC wouldn't work on-the-go...but RoD was, indeed, wrong, and Fuzz was correct to point that out.

Yes, I was wrong. But I should have been more clearer. While everyone has a phone, not all of them are smart phones.

 

The reason why I prefer Discord? I don't have internet or WiFi at home, making me rely on my phone to keep up with Dragon Cave and the forums.

 

(Also, I would prefer to be called Dalek Raptor please )

[Sundew]

Fuzz's point does stand, because RoD literally said everyone has a phone and could take Discord with them when that, frankly, isn't true. I agree that an older phone, like Fuzz, or no phone, like me, means that even IRC wouldn't work on-the-go...but RoD was, indeed, wrong, and Fuzz was correct to point that out.

I guess that's fair. Sorry if I was overly curt, Fuzz.

[Fuzzbucket]

I guess that's fair. Sorry if I was overly curt, Fuzz.

Thank you. Because it IS something worth bearing in mind.

 

As I have said over and over, I personally don't care as I wouldn't use it - but it is important to realise (for EVERYONE to realise) that not everyone has the same machinery etc at their fingertips. I do mostly use a PC and I COULD use discord if I liked, so I'm not complaining that it isn't accessible to ME - but not everyone has a smart phone, they really don't. And also - those who DO mostly use a PC - and that is a hell of a lot of us here - can very easily use IRC.

 

Mobile is not the be-all and end-all.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I just think it would be important that everybody's opinion should be taken into consideration. Some people can't use IRC from their mobiles, and Discord would be better. As far as I'm aware, pretty much everyone here can access Discord. And some who cannot access it would very much like to. I think if a Discord were to be opened up, it wouldn't allow for some more rearranging, like certain servers being opened up that might be more useful, like certain specific art servers for crits and such.

[irrelevantindigo]

I just think it would be important that everybody's opinion should be taken into consideration. Some people can't use IRC from their mobiles, and Discord would be better. As far as I'm aware, pretty much everyone here can access Discord. And some who cannot access it would very much like to. I think if a Discord were to be opened up, it wouldn't allow for some more rearranging, like certain servers being opened up that might be more useful, like certain specific art servers for crits and such.

 

Looking over this thread, I believe it to be very unlikely to get an official one at this point-- neither chat moderator is interested (as far as I know) and TJ has yet to express any interest in it at all.

I also believe we have covered all the points of discussion about IRC and Discord.

 

However, I hope if we can run an efficient, active unofficial one for a while, there may be more reconsideration in the future.

 

The unofficial discord is pretty darn active right now for anyone wanting to scratch the discord itch. We also organized a couple mods and channels (there's one for art).

I think it may be best to update the fansite page and the like to raise more awareness about the revamped, more active unofficial discord.

Edited May 31, 2017 by irrelevantindigo

[bob_jones]

Everyone does NOT have a phone capable of using ANY of this stuff. And many of us - including me - don't WANT that kind of phone. My only mobile use on DC is through a tablet. I am sickened by seeing everyone glued to their smartphones on the street as if being connected were all that mattered in life, and I will never use one. And I am far from alone; in fact there was an article I read the other day saying that many other people ARE beginning to get sick of it too.

Wow, that's...unexpectedly aggressive and totally irrelevant to the conversation. Are you under the impression that people walking down the street "glued to their smartphones" are using Discord or something? Because Discord requires wifi and unless these zombie strawmen are evolving to generate internet connectivity, I'm pretty sure they're not on an online chat.

 

Basically, if you want to start an argument about whether technology is evil, fire is scary and Thomas Edison was a witch, then maybe a different thread is the place to do it.

[irrelevantindigo]

Wow, that's...unexpectedly aggressive and totally irrelevant to the conversation. Are you under the impression that people walking down the street "glued to their smartphones" are using Discord or something? Because Discord requires wifi and unless these zombie strawmen are evolving to generate internet connectivity, I'm pretty sure they're not on an online chat.

 

Basically, if you want to start an argument about whether technology is evil, fire is scary and Thomas Edison was a witch, then maybe a different thread is the place to do it.

This is incredibly off topic.

Fuzz was not looking to start an argument-- there was a misunderstanding. It honestly doesn't need to be brought up again-- not even to address it.

ETA: This comment was on the last page, let's leave it there please.

 

The underlying issue is Dalek is purely a mobile user and does not have a desktop computer or anything. So Discord is preferable to her over IRC because well... she can't use IRC.

 

@fuzz, hah, we did indeed. But I think it's fine-- we both had different things to say. :0

Edited June 1, 2017 by irrelevantindigo

[Fuzzbucket]

Taken in context, which was responding to:

frankly, everyone has a phone​ nowadays so Discord can be with you on the go.

it makes perfect sense. People in the streets are very often using wifi - there are hotspots all over. You can see them using facebook on the subway, checking their email as they walk down the street. And yes, I think it's sad. Not evil, but sad. It can be quite fun to talk to someone instead of messaging them.

 

No-one ever suggested to me that Edison was a witch, but I must look into that.

 

ETA Ah -

technology is evil, fire is scary and Thomas Edison was a witch

 

- that's a sentence that comes up all over on google. Did you start it or was it borrowed ?

 

ii - we cross posted - if you want, I'll pull mine.

Edited June 1, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[bob_jones]

Taken in context, which was responding to:

 

it makes perfect sense. People in the streets are very often using wifi - there are hotspots all over. You can see them using facebook on the subway, checking their email as they walk down the street. And yes, I think it's sad. Not evil, but sad. It can be quite fun to talk to someone instead of messaging them.

 

No-one ever suggested to me that Edison was a witch, but I must look into that.

 

ETA Ah -

 

 

- that's a sentence that comes up all over on google. Did you start it or was it borrowed ?

 

ii - we cross posted - if you want, I'll pull mine.

It's a meme. Basically I was suggesting you're a Luddite.

 

And personally I think it's sad that people think talking through text isn't talking. If that were so, then writing letters isn't a meaningful way of communicating in your world either. My best friend lives thousands of miles away and I don't think our relationship is any less meaningful than anyone else's. In fact I KNOW it isn't.

 

As for "It honestly doesn't need to be brought up again-- not even to address it" - well, fair enough, but if the post is still up then it's fair game, and if you don't want people responding to it on this public forum then perhaps it should be edited or deleted. Nothing this person said is a "misunderstanding." They very clearly said that the use of smartphones is sad, and were quite aggressive about it, which I take issue with.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

The underlying issue is Dalek is purely a mobile user and does not have a desktop computer or anything. So Discord is preferable to her over IRC because well... she can't use IRC.

That's only half true. I don't have a desktop computer or anything else like that and I do prefer Discord over IRC because of that fact.

 

I could use IRC if it was mobile friendly

 

But it's not. To enjoy the full IRC experience to make it mobile friendly, I would have to pay x amount of money to download one thing and x amount of another to download another thing for IRC.

 

Why pay money and scour the internet to enjoy the full IRC experience when Discord is free to download?

 

But the thing is, I retract my earlier comments and I would rather have Discord as a choice to others. I use it because it's mobile friendly and it's my right to use Discord.

 

And it's really sad to read how hostile people are being in IRC towards Discord. Besides myself, I don't anyone in the Discord server who has posted in this thread has actually shown any hostility towards IRC and I'm really grateful for that.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Raptor of Dragons

[Fuzzbucket]

If I were a Luddite, I wouldn't be here. Nor would I be able to/want to define my own precise computer requirements (which I am doing as we speak, as I need a replacement.)

 

But I do think it is a shame to be the opposite to a Luddite (I don't think there's a word unless geek would do) to the extent that you actually see couples in coffee shops texting each other across the table. What is happening to speech ? I still write letters AND email, by the way - and I use a phone to speak to people. But with texting (and forums and even DISCORD !) you do lose a lot - not least facial expression and body language. Think of all the apologetic posts here in the forum "Oh I'm sorry; I misunderstood - sometimes nuances are lost on the internet." Too right.

 

What I actually said, though, was that the need to be connected to the internet ALL the time is sad.

 

ETA and I am not hostile to Discord either, or to IRC. Most of my posts in this thread have simply been to draw attention to the fact that while there are a lot of people here who want discord, not everyone does - and there were posts saying that everyone did. That gets us nowhere. I wish the very best of luck to those who have set one up, and I hope that if it works for art (in particular) there will be a way found to make it official. But that will require a lot of give and take. Is all.

Edited June 1, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[irrelevantindigo]

They very clearly said that the use of smartphones is sad, and were quite aggressive about it, which I take issue with.

Then take it somewhere else please. This is the suggestion sub-forum.

If you disagree with something that has little to do with the suggestion at hand, leave it be. Or as I said, take it somewhere else.

 

Frankly, I don't even feel right about posting again just to say this. :/

(And after this I believe I'll stop posting in here.)

 

Honestly, the mild hostility in this thread needs to stop. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on technology and discord and irc. But sharing it here won't help anyone. Suggestions and objective facts about discord/irc use will.

 

--

 

Thanks for clarifying that Dalek, sorry that I was slightly off in my understanding.

 

Besides myself, I don't anyone in the Discord server who has posted in this thread has actually shown any hostility towards IRC and I'm really grateful for that.

Also, I can happily say this is true. c:

(and you've barely said anything unkind about irc :u )

 

Edited because typos and grammar.

Edited June 1, 2017 by irrelevantindigo

[bob_jones]

Well, I don't know where you live, but I have never seen any couple in a coffee shop texting each other across the table, nor have I done so myself. That's just silly, and if people are actually doing it, then we can agree that they've got a problem. As for me, I'm one of those sad people who use their phones almost all the time: to talk to friends, to make schedule arrangements, to take pictures, to make calls, to check the time, to listen to the radio and to mess around on DC. If that makes me a "geek" then I'm perfectly happy to be the opposite of a Luddite.

 

However, I'm still one of those who think the IRC is fine for my needs, and who doesn't want to be forced to switch to Discord. That's my two cents.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Okay, can people just take this down a notch and step back for a moment?

 

I'm not trying to replace IRC with Discord. I'm trying to make it an official thing as an alternative to people who would prefer Discord. I think you guys in IRC are jumping to conclusions about Discord. If you don't want to use it, then don't. Simple as that, just don't take your anger out by badmouthing it because it's an alternative.

 

I don't get why it would be very difficult for TJ to manage an official Discord server.

 

Three days ago, I started an all new Discord server because the old one was gaining a lot of popularity and there were only two shared admins and no mods. That would have caused problems and people agreed I should start a new fan based Discord (and with the help of my two mods) it isn't at all hard to manage. And guess what? I started it on my phone.

 

So I really wouldn't know until he made an official input on it.

 

Edit: people in Discord asked me to change the 'no longer' because it wasn't really the intention in the first place

Edited June 1, 2017 by Raptor of Dragons

[Obscure_Trash]

Further off-topic comments will be warned for spam. Please report necessary posts to a moderator instead of trying to take it into your own hands, resulting in more spam. Edited June 1, 2017 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Obscure_Trash]

I'm not trying to replace IRC with Discord. I'm trying to make it an official thing as an alternative to people who would prefer Discord.

I can't speak for TJ, but honestly, it doesn't make sense to manage upkeep on two separate, official chats. I do think it only needs to be one official chat: IRC or Discord.

Edited June 1, 2017 by SockPuppet Strangler

[KrazyKarp]

Just kinda throwing in my two cents but...

 

If enough users wanted Discord then wouldn't an unofficial thing be enough anyway?