Have a Discord Server

[Starscream]

It will be one or the other, I am pretty sure. Not both. I can say, IRC has stood the test of time, I have been using it since 1996.

 

Edited:

 

I use androidirc free to use, easy to use just plug in the irc.technoized.net:6667 (I use 6669)

It does not take a lot of knowledge to get this connected.

 

Most of what is being suggested in here is already IRC capable - such as logging and what not.

 

IF we do get discord, Then TJ will be the one setting up the official server.

If we do get discord, Then I will be insisting voice chat is disabled because that cannot be easily logged or moderated.

 

Emoji's excessive use: would be moderated

Avatars: depending on what it depicts could be moderated.

 

IRC, I do not see how it would work to have both running. it would be one or the other - I doubt we would be hiring new staff

 

Depending on client, I am looking into discord again, if its something that pesters you to buy, that would be a tick against it.

 

You guys need to sell the idea to me. TJ already provided some reasonable reasons why discord over IRC - I have asked. If you want other channels that #dc does not provide you can join your own channel and invite your friends in.

 

But things like Avatars, Voice Chat, it looks oh-so-pretty, emoji's. That doesn't sell it. Neither does that its the latest fad. Same as Skype was a fad, same as AIM was a fad, these have largely passed.

 

Again, IRC is not a difficult clinet to actually use. Not sure why people seem to be under the impression that a degree in rocket science is needed.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Starscream

[Sundew]

Just kinda throwing in my two cents but...

 

If enough users wanted Discord then wouldn't an unofficial thing be enough anyway?

We've discussed this within the server, and I think most of us are fine with it staying unofficial. We're not going to close down the server if this suggestion is shot down. However, we'd still like to see an official Discord if that's what the staff decide is best.

[Pixxelation]

Objective pros to Discord:

• Easy mobile access
• Continuous connection is not a necessity
  • Eliminates the issue of netsplits
  • You can DM people who are not presently online
  • You can join a conversation and have full context
• Editing messages
• Deleting messages
• Adding friends
• Native image hosting
• Incredibly light to run
• Accidental tagging is less of an issue, thanks to tagging involving an @ symbol
• Roles (i.e. moderator, etc.) are more apparent due to color-coding of names
• You can write notes about certain users as reminders
• You can disable DMs from non-friends

And those are just the features that immediately jump out at me, as someone who has used IRC for years, but has recently been using Discord--there's bound to be more that I'm not thinking of right now. I really do think Discord is a more powerful program and a better alternative to IRC.

 

IRC being around for so long is both a blessing and a curse; while it's something people are familiar with, it's noticeably aged, and more current programs have surpassed it. Discord is one such program, and I fully support an official server.

[Starscream]

Deleting / editing messages - from a moderator point of view does not seem to be a pro to me. Although editing typos is - I typo everywhere. But the fact people could delete something after the fact. "someone is a cow face" deletes "Oh I never said that..." if you get my meaning.

 

 

Edit:

 

Question: are there alternative options for clients to discord?

 

For example, I use pIRCh98, some use Mibbit while others use mIRC. There are many different clients for people with different tastes.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Starscream

[Sundew]

To add to what Pie said:

• Deleted and edited messages can be logged in order to prevent abuse.
• In addition to being able to tag individuals, admins have the option of tagging @everyone for any relevant announcements. This sends everyone in the server a notification so that they'll know to check for an announcement when they are next online.
• External emojis can be disabled. Embedded links and images can also be disabled.
• Verification for servers can be enabled on several levels, which will prevent new members from speaking until they meet whatever criteria you specify: no criteria, must have verified email, must have been a member of Discord for longer than 5 minutes, must have been a member of the server for more than 10 minutes, or must have a verified phone number.
• There is an explicit content filter that can either scan no messages, scan all messages from members without a role, or scan all messages from everyone. This'll look for and (hopefully) catch explicit content or spam.
• There are a variety of bots that enable: censorship of certain words, stopping members from sending messages too quickly, automated warn/ban systems, custom commands, automated roles based on activity, etc.

[Sextonator]

stopping members from sending messages too quickly

This would be lovely

[Starscream]

Ah see now that's more like the info I am looking for.

 

I am going to have to load up discord again as I am going to be feature testing for Creativerse.

 

Can voice chat be disabled?

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Ah see now that's more like the info I am looking for.

 

I am going to have to load up discord again as I am going to be feature testing for Creativerse.

 

Can voice chat be disabled?

 

Yes, voice chat can be disabled/deleted.

 

Tbh, in the past three days that we've had this Discord up, I haven't seen anyone in the general voice chat. We've been mostly talking through text.

[Sundew]

Yeah, voice can be disabled entirely. Though if you'd like to do a voice chat with only a few trusted people (or would like to use a bot to play music while everyone else is quiet), you can also set it up so that only people with certain assigned roles can join or speak.

 

It is worth noting that a lot of Discord becomes more available when you use moderation bots (Blargbot is one example). Currently, Discord has audit logs which will track moderator actions, but doesn't have a built-in way to log messages deleted/edited by members -- so you'd need to use a bot to do that. Many bots also have the option to delete messages in bulk in case someone is spamming.

 

When banning members, you are also given the option to delete their messages (no messages, all messages they sent within 24 hours, all messages they sent within a week, or all messages they ever sent). Bans are by account, not IP.

[Starscream]

The concern I have, is this there have been applications before that have come and gone such as ICQ, these programs have one client provider. When they call it quits - what then?

 

my client for example became obsolete back in 2000(ish) I still use it because it works still. Even on a windows 10 computer. I keep it on a thumb drive so If I go somewhere else, I have my IRC in my pocket ready to boot up.

 

I want to know what other clients exist or is this a proprietary thing. Even if my Pirch fails to work in the near future (I am gunning for 20 years with the same program) I still have many easy to use options - free or otherwise.

 

Basically all of the things you mentioned as far as mod tools go (with exception of the deleting the posts) is the same as IRC. Perhaps not with easy to use buttons (pirch has them)

 

And if emojis are nerfed (not axed entirely - that would suck) and voice is nerfed entirely, what difference is there to IRC? Especially if the rules are maintained between systems (with some exceptions)

 

So with the option of editing and deleting of logs, and needing bots(I'm a D'con don't judge me for my disdain) for aiding in moderation - sounds tricky to me. I have a hard enough time going over chat logs of users to find the full picture as it is - if someone can just delete it to non existence - then my work is made much harder. Even mods having that power is dodgy because its easily abused.

 

ROD: The point was brought up to me by a user is that voice & chat may mean some users are only getting half the conversation (depending if they have speakers. I would have to have mine muted.

[Pixxelation]

The concern I have, is this there have been applications before that have come and gone such as ICQ, these programs have one client provider. When they call it quits -  what then?

 

my client for example became obsolete back in 2000(ish) I still use it because it works still. Even on a windows 10 computer. I keep it on a thumb drive so If I go somewhere else, I have my IRC in my pocket ready to boot up.

 

I want to know what other clients exist or is this a proprietary thing.  Even if my Pirch fails to work in the near future (I am gunning for 20 years with the same program) I still have many easy to use options -  free or otherwise.

Discord may be relatively new (it just recently celebrated the second anniversary of its launch), but I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon. Skype lasted for a while, up until bad upgrades killed it--I don't think Discord will meet a similar fate. It's really popular, and very functional.

 

Basically all of the things you mentioned as far as mod tools go (with exception of the deleting the posts) is the same as IRC. Perhaps not with easy to use buttons (pirch has them)

 

And if emojis are nerfed (not axed entirely -  that would suck) and voice is nerfed entirely, what difference is there to IRC? Especially if the rules are maintained between systems (with some exceptions)

 

I think the lists of advantages ab613 and I made make a pretty strong case for Discord over IRC.

 

So with the option of editing and deleting of logs, and needing bots(I'm a D'con don't judge me for my disdain) for aiding in moderation -  sounds tricky to me. I have a hard enough time going over chat logs of users to find the full picture as it is -  if someone can just delete it to non existence - then my work is made much harder. Even mods having that power is dodgy because its easily abused.

 

Bots actually make moderation a whole lot easier. If you're not familiar with them, perhaps adding some new staff members more familiar with Discord might be worthwhile to ease the transition.

 

ROD: The point was brought up to me by a user is that voice & chat may mean some users are only getting half the conversation (depending if they have speakers. I would have to have mine muted.

 

I'm sure voice conversations would differ from text ones, though I can understand the concern with moderation and wouldn't necessarily be opposed to deleting the voice channel.

 

~

 

Overall, I think the program being different than IRC from a moderator perspective is a weak argument against a shift to Discord. Discord as a whole is more accessible, has more features, and is more inviting and intuitive for users than IRC, and would thus provide a better experience for the community.

[Process]

Personally I've never liked irc. I find it clunky ugly and dated. Plus my name = accidental pings.

 

now then from an artist point I really enjoy Discord

 

• The ability to message people who aren't around at the time is invaluable. (I work odd hours so I'm pretty impossible to get a hold of)
• Easier 1 on 1 crit for art
• The ability to give people different colored name, makes people with more pixel experience stand out / easier to find

To also note users seem to desire more artist involvement. For myself this is a platform I feel most able to do that. A few others might as well. I know some artists have been turned off of irc due to "abrasiveness"

 

As for emoji's I really enjoy them and feel they have a place in text conversations. Text often has the issue of not being able to convey tone. Emoji's help with this. Also for people like myself who are word challenged its a very great way to get a point across.

 

 

I find discord easy as butt to use as well with tons of amazing features, one of my favorite being search.

seriously look at that handy dandy search

 

 

 

 

 

[Starscream]

an emoji here and there would be fine but for example

 

would probably be considered excessive - although this actually says nothing, I could emoji a song out easily enough - however there is no point in it.

 

IRC you can still use a :3 or Depending on client these are either text or picture.

 

Discord may be just as abrasive as IRC - don't get me wrong, I am artistic as well, I like things customised to my tastes, and my irc has been just fine. I have what I want and what is comfortable. mirc, if I am recalling fizzix saying, you can change users to whatever colour you want them to - depends on the client.

 

I have been playing with it today and I found some interesting things, and some bothersome/concerning things.

 

Search is definitely there as useful.

messaging is also useful - However, you can still leave, read and delete, messages in irc. its rarely used but is still there at your convenience.

 

/noteop msg user I believe is the command.

 

/msg noteop read (and number of message to read)

 

I doubt the rules will change much between irc and discord if that is what is being considered abrasive.

 

[Process]

I think you slightly missed my point about emojis.

 

I really enjoy being able to use emojis /gifs/ images because I am really terrible at communication via text. Visual media works way better for me

 

as for abrasiveness in the "unofficial" discord right now everyone has been really awesome? Maybe there is a problem with a few users /mods on irc that causes an environment multiple people don't like?

[Starscream]

Its personal preference. some IRC clients have emoji you can use. Mibbit uses it I think, and images can show up in mibbit as well. My client is straight up text. I prefer it that way. I honestly do not want to see peoples pictures - especially of some species of insect or immature newly born humans - I see a link and I click on the link (unexpected surprise - I know) but at least I can close it down and never look at it again. I suppose I could delete the image as a moderator.

 

The chances are, folk will prefer to use the unofficial discord over an official one because we have mods and users who would likely come along. If we can connect it to the IRC so IRC loving members can still have their fix.

 

As for pings, you can turn off your ping - again pick a client. I have basically all sounds turned off and my name is simply a highlight. say my name, toes or feet and that line goes red. Oh we are talking about mosquitoes or tomatoes, okay. First thing I do in any client was shut the sound off.

 

I tried Line out and found that a royal pita - on my phone it sapped power and I had trouble finding how to shut the pings off.

 

So I could not use discord on my phone for that reason. IRC I only get a quiet nudge when someone says my name or msg me in pm. I can turn those off though.

[birdzgoboom]

an emoji here and there would be fine but for example

 

                would probably be considered excessive -  although this actually says nothing, I could emoji a song out easily enough - however there is no point in it.

 

IRC you can still use a :3 or Depending on client these are either text or picture.

So unfortunately, basically what I'm getting from this is this.

Being able to unwind and express yourself in a fun and harmless way like emojis shouldn't be a big issue. I for one like tacking 💯👌👌 reacts onto some real gud posts because it's easy, lighthearted and amusing. And then other people tack more onto it if they want because again, it's easy, lighthearted and amusing. It also lets people know (if i'm critting them) that their thing is good and I don't have to write about it. I can just click, react, boom done.

 

And like Process said too-- sometimes it's harder for some people to express themselves well enough through text, so having emojis around is helpful for them and... it's really not a big deal.

 

I doubt the rules will change much between irc and discord if that is what is being considered abrasive.

 

I can say that personally the rigidness of the entire atmosphere and some of the things I've seen and dealt with from IRC make me never want to use it again. But the main thing is that it's also a pain to have a million different chat clients open when I just use Discord for literally everything when it comes to chat and calling.

 

So if people want more artists around, and a number of us use Discord constantly, and hardly any of us really touch IRC, there's that to think about too.

 

Honestly all of the game groups I'm in use Discord, or even other forums/subreddits have "official Discord" channels. I really do not see the harm in it. If a huge subreddit can use Discord and be able to handle it when it has way more traffic than a DC Discord would, why couldn't DC handle it? Bots are there too to help the moderation process go smoother, so the seeming unwillingness to use a bot to help keep track of things is honestly rather confusing to me.

[Pixxelation]

Its personal preference. some IRC clients have emoji you can use. Mibbit uses it I think, and images can show up in mibbit as well. My client is straight up text. I prefer it that way. I honestly do not want to see peoples pictures -  especially of some species of insect or immature newly born humans - I see a link and I click on the link (unexpected surprise -  I know) but at least I can close it down and never look at it again. I suppose I could delete the image as a moderator.

As has been brought up, you can disable embedding of images and links (thought I would personally rather keep it enabled).

 

The chances are, folk will prefer to use the unofficial discord over an official one because we have mods and users who would likely come along. If we can connect it to the IRC so IRC loving members can still have their fix.

I think part of the problem is that some of the mods tend to be rather aggressive in their moderating style, even toward new users. People get kicked for what seem to be arbitrary reasons, and even if it seems lighthearted to chat regulars, can be pretty frightening for someone not familiar with how chat works. I think gentler nudging for small offenses like borderline-spammy comments or simply redirecting a new person. who posts in the wrong channel would do wonders for the overall environment of chat.

 

As for pings, you can turn off your ping -  again pick a client. I have basically all sounds turned off and my name is simply a highlight. say my name, toes or feet and that line goes red. Oh we are talking about mosquitoes or tomatoes, okay. First thing I do in any client was shut the sound off.

You're lucky enough to have a username that doesn't come up in regular conversation. I, for one, had to stop going by "Pie" there because I pinged all over the place--puppies, guppies, pied markings, etc. With Discord, you only get tagged if someone @s you, which makes it a lot easier to ensure someone gets notified only when they're actually needed.

 

I tried Line out and found that a royal pita -  on my phone it sapped power and I had trouble finding how to shut the pings off.

So I could not use discord on my phone for that reason. IRC I only get a quiet nudge when someone says my name or msg me in pm. I can turn those off though.

Discord is actually an incredibly light program to run. But nobody's trying to force anyone to use a phone for chat, anyway; rather, we're trying to open chat up to those who only have access through phones. Personally, I use both, so the Discord app is incredibly useful when mobile.

Edited June 2, 2017 by PieMaster

[Starscream]

I adjusted my name to highlight under a more specific situation. Stars instead of Star

 

else Started, Starling, Startled, Star or Stark would ping me.

[Process]

So people need to know a specific way to ping? That seems really stupid. Strait up just inefficient.

 

Another thing I love about discord is strait uploads. With irc I need to go to a 3rd party like imgur to show ppl my art. On discord I can copy paste strait from photoshop

Again I'm looking at this mainly as an artist and this program works way better.

Need redlines I got u

Ping me hello

 

And so on

[Pixxelation]

I adjusted my name to highlight under a more specific situation. Stars instead of Star

 

else Started, Starling, Startled, Star or Stark would ping me.

That's my point, though--you shouldn't have to change your name to avoid being pinged unnecessarily. Discord fixes that by requiring an @ to ping you, and has an intuitive system that makes it easy to select the person you're trying to tag.

 

~

 

With regards to emojis: spamming emojis as messages is one thing, but Discord's emoji reactions are actually quite nice as a form of concise feedback to a direct message, and are quite frankly fun to use.

[Starscream]

So people need to know a specific way to ping? That seems really stupid. Strait up just inefficient.

 

Another thing I love about discord is strait uploads. With irc I need to go to a 3rd party like imgur to show ppl my art. On discord I can copy paste strait from photoshop

Again I'm looking at this mainly as an artist and this program works way better.

Need redlines I got u

Ping me hello

 

And so on

no, we can just set custom pings.

[Pixxelation]

I really don't understand all the resistance, Star. Discord is an objectively superior chat program as has been detailed throughout this thread. I feel like you're grasping at straws because you don't want to change something you're used to.

[Starscream]

it has its pros and it cons.

 

One of the cons will be its staff you folk don't seem to really enjoy would be moderating it.

[Pixxelation]

it has its pros and it cons.

 

One of the cons will be its staff you folk don't seem to really enjoy would be moderating it.

If we're counting that as a con, doesn't that apply to IRC as well? Even then, it's not a con with Discord so much as it is an issue with staffing that might need addressing.

[Starscream]

Well, for those who left IRC because of it, its not a con to them while they are operating an unofficial server. They are not dealing with IRC moderators. If it becomes official, then the chat staff would be expected to migrate. Half of the issue in perception is the userbase is unaware of what is going behind closed doors. we cannot express our actions (NDA). And the userbase will not be given the larger story. However for the most part, IRC has been pretty decent. A few bits of crazy here and there.

 

As for Discord, I can see some issues even now regarding moderating. They would definitely need bots. I don't really care if bots are used or not, but Discord is imperfect if you need to utilise an external bot for something as simple as censor.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Starscream