ANSWERED:Limit on prize trading threads?

[Beldarius]

...I tried to go back a few pages and couldn't see a suggestion like this within the first four pages or so.

 

So, basically, I've been seeing people mention how Prize eggs are dominating the trading threads (and I personally think that's the case, too) and I came up with one suggestion for it.

 

Limit Prize trades to only ONE thread, specifically aimed at them. Ban Prizes (both wants and haves) from all other threads so the common, uncommon and rare trades don't get buried under the boatload of Prizes that keep popping up.

 

* Prizes could be allowed in the other trading threads if they're 6th gen or higher since they're barely worth an uncommon or two.

 

* Of course, the Prizes could also be limited to two threads, to keep everything clutter-free. Namely, a thread for Prize owners who want to trade their Prizes; and another thread for people who WANT Prizes and have something to offer for them.

 

Anybody with me on this?

 

EDIT: ...Last I've checked, the "trade everything", EG and stairstep/spiral threads have been dominated by Prize wants and haves for years. It's getting on my nerves to be honest - most 'ordinary' trades keep getting buried and pushed back to previous pages by all the Prizes.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Beldarius

[Herk]

Prizes HAVE been banned from the metal thread. But it really makes no sense to ban them from the "TRADE EVERYTHING" thread - nor from the EG thread.

 

ALSO - this kind of rules has to be implemented by the thread people/account not implemented from above.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Prizes have already been kicked out of most threads. The general trading thread is general for a reason and I want it to remain that way. Browse the metallic, CB, and even usually even gen threads if you don't want to see many prizes.

[Nerei]

I feel that this isn't really a big problem. Let the people trade how they want! It's still possible to find trades you'd want, even with Prizes.

[Beldarius]

It's still possible to find trades you'd want, even with Prizes.

Actually, it isn't. I've been trying to get a pair of CB Jungle Xenowyrms ever since they were released. Whenever I look for Xeno trades, it's always either high-gen Prizes, Xeno swaps or CB metals.

 

...That's stuff I have trouble getting. I had to depend on the kindness of another user to get three Xenos since I couldn't even see any myself, despite refreshing for hours.

 

Prizes and new releases are overrated. I'll just say that much. :\

Edited July 10, 2015 by Beldarius

[cyradis4]

Actually, it isn't. I've been trying to get a pair of CB Jungle Xenowyrms ever since they were released. Whenever I look for Xeno trades, it's always either high-gen Prizes, Xeno swaps or CB metals.

 

...That's stuff I have trouble getting. I had to depend on the kindness of another user to get three Xenos since I couldn't even see any myself, despite refreshing for hours.

 

Prizes and new releases are overrated. I'll just say that much. :\

Banishing prizes won't help with that problem, because CB Xenos are acting like a user-driven rare. For at least a few months, more likely a full year, they will trade for extremely high prices.

 

For the rest... Banishing Prizes to their own "Have" thread helped a lot. Banishing them completely would cause other problems.

 

The only way things will really improve, trading wise, is if its an on-site Bazaar or something. Where we can enter specific terms, and have / wants. Like filter out all "Prize only" have / wants. I think there was a suggestion of something like that somewhere around here.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Beldarius]

I wonder if that "filtering out" option could be achieved with the forum's system?

 

It sounds like a very, very good option - then people who want to trade something other than Prizes could finally find what they're looking for, without having to resort to CTRL+F every single page.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Beldarius

[cyradis4]

I wonder if that "filtering out" option could be achieved with the forum's system?

 

It sounds like a very, very good option - then people who want to trade something other than Prizes could finally find what they're looking for, without having to resort to CTRL+F every single page.

I'd give you a 99.9% probability that the forums *can't* do any sort of filtering. The software for these is extremely old, and that sort of thing is best done via its own special page, rather than a true "forum" environment.

 

Sorta like EATW's trading market, but.... You need to toss in some more filtering and such, and of course build up to more total trades.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Fiona]

It didn't make sense to me when the Prize trading thread was made to limit what people could ask for for their trades in either the Prize thread or the Even Gen thread and it still doesn't. Trading in the Even Gen thread did get much better after banning 2nd gen prize haves and 2nd gen metal haves. People should be allowed to ask for whatever they want where their trade is legal to be posted.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

People can only ask for even gens in the even gen thread? I never knew that, and looking at the thread it seems no one else knows either.

[Syphoneira]

It didn't make sense to me when the Prize trading thread was made to limit what people could ask for for their trades in either the Prize thread or the Even Gen thread and it still doesn't. Trading in the Even Gen thread did get much better after banning 2nd gen prize haves and 2nd gen metal haves. People should be allowed to ask for whatever they want where their trade is legal to be posted.

 

 

I had no idea this was done, and no, it certainly doesn't make sense at all that people's 'asks' are restricted! What are they restricted from asking for?!

 

 

Edit: thanks to angelicdragonpuppy for informing me as to the nonsense on the Even-gen thread.

 

This is really depressing! I'll have to check out the Prize thread to see what trades have now been made utterly impossible for people there...

 

Re-edit: didn't see anything beyond not asking for IOUs, unless I missed something, which is entirely possible.

 

 

 

Beldarius Posted on Jul 10 2015, 07:14 PM

 

QUOTE (Niyaka @ Jul 11 2015, 01:59 AM)

It's still possible to find trades you'd want, even with Prizes.

 

Actually, it isn't. I've been trying to get a pair of CB Jungle Xenowyrms ever since they were released. Whenever I look for Xeno trades, it's always either high-gen Prizes, Xeno swaps or CB metals.

 

...That's stuff I have trouble getting. I had to depend on the kindness of another user to get three Xenos since I couldn't even see any myself, despite refreshing for hours.

 

Prizes and new releases are overrated. I'll just say that much. :\

 

 

 

 

Hi, Beldarius!

 

If people are only willing to part with their Zenos for specific things, I'm afraid that restricting where they can ask won't change what they want or are willing to trade for.

 

The Zeno's are in demand in part because they're both new and gorgeous and in part because the 2nd gen Prizes are still being over-valued, which results in multiples of whatever being traded for them by the fastest (and makes cheating worth-while for some,) and that has caused issues where the Zenos have become hard to catch or even see, although still Dropping well.

 

I was told the other night that someone was trading a 2nd gen Prize for 4 CB Golds or Zenos, and I thought at the time I'd never part with that many for anything - and I've gifted 7 to various people, despite now having to hunt all day and night to catch perhaps one or two, none at all, the other day.

 

The Zenos I now have to fill my down-scaled minimum would have to be wrenched out of my cold, dead hands, lol, but others may part with them ONLY for something which they want very badly indeed.

 

Whatever you have to offer may be badly enough wanted by the right person, but higher level trades do tend to work like that, and I do hope you manage to find the right trades. Best of luck, at any rate.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Syphoneira

[The_Bucket]

...It is absurd to banish trades looking for prizes to a single thread. I don't really think I need to explain why. We already have Prize Central, where a large number of prize trades go. ADT, the general trade thread, is for everything. I would prefer not to have to check several different threads every time I want to search for a trade. Prizes are perfectly legit dragons too. Just because "User A" dislikes Xenowyrms and lots of trades lately involve Xenowyrms does not mean that Xenowyrm wants and haves should be banished to one single trade thread.

Edited July 11, 2015 by The_Bucket

[silver_tiger]

Making certain trades only go one place won't solve the issue with the Xeno trading. I don't think that will get resolved anytime soon, because people are effectively making them a user-driven rare, as other people have already said, by offering such exclusive or otherwise desirable things for them. I don't know what can be done for that except waiting, and I'm saying this as someone who hasn't seen a single one since the initial drop days.

[PixelShark]

People can only ask for even gens in the even gen thread? I never knew that, and looking at the thread it seems no one else knows either.

People have a habit of not reading the rules or doing what they want in there. Yeah, 2Gen lineages are frowned upon in there. Also, the title would imply. Not at all sure how people miss that!

 

About Limiting Prize Trades:

 

Prizes are not your only problem. Look around. Everyone wants Pyralspites or Spessies or Xenos or any other run-of-the-mill rare. The community wants Prizes right now. You can limit it, but you can't ban it like you are talking. Those who make trade forums have a right to outlaw Prize trades in their thread, sure, and I think that is a spectacular way to handle it.

 

What you're suggesting is that there be specific trade threads for specific eggs. That's...a very inefficient way of handling it. Imagine if every single egg was limited to a trade like that. You couldn't even ask for other egg breeds in the trade because it's outlawed in that thread. That's one situation. The second is, requesting other breeds in the trade is legal, however people still will ask for eggs like Prizes, Spessies, Pyrals, Gemshards, Xenos...There's no way around it. The community wants Prize Dragons. Maybe not everyone, and maybe not a good chunk of people, but there's enough people out there who seek Prize Dragons that make it into a community situation.

 

EDIT: And for the record, there are other trades out there. A lot of them. In fact, there are threads where people are just giving dragons away. So I would not say there is a Prizepocalypse like you are talking. (If anyone uses this word, please quote me on it.)

Edited July 11, 2015 by PixelShark

[Fiona]

To be clear about the Even Gens 2nd gen lineages are allowed to be traded there except offering a trade of 2nd gen metals or prizes. It's also about the only place you're allowed to ask for help finding specific things without actually offering a trade. You're supposed to only ask for even gen things since this is the Even Gens thread, after all. I don't think that's particularly enforced, but you'd have to ask the forum mods. I do enforce the rule about 2nd gen metals and prizes.

 

On the Prizes thread, the only restriction is that what you are offering must be only prize dragons.

 

The rule about no IOUs is a forum wide rule.

 

As for kicking prize wants out of either thread, I won't do it unless TJ himself tells me it's important.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Actually, it isn't. I've been trying to get a pair of CB Jungle Xenowyrms ever since they were released. Whenever I look for Xeno trades, it's always either high-gen Prizes, Xeno swaps or CB metals.

 

...That's stuff I have trouble getting. I had to depend on the kindness of another user to get three Xenos since I couldn't even see any myself, despite refreshing for hours.

 

Prizes and new releases are overrated. I'll just say that much. :\

That's because Xenos are the hot stuff on the market right now. I've traded a CB Silver and a CB Gold for ~21 myself this week because they're almost impossible to find and I don't want to try getting them once (if) they go the way of pyralspites or coppers. Lots of others are likely doing the same. You're not having trouble finding Xenos because trades are getting buried by prizes, you're having trouble because easy trades for them are just almost nonexistent right now.

Edited July 11, 2015 by angelicdragonpuppy

[JavaTigress]

Those who make trade forums have a right to outlaw Prize trades in their thread, sure, and I think that is a spectacular way to handle it.

 

As a matter of fact, I think some of the threads have done exactly that. The metallics thread, as an example comes to mind.

 

AND I am agreed that that is the best way to handle it. Because, honestly, while it is annoying if prizes are ALL people ever ask for, I think there needs to be a place to allow for trading them as well. As for banning them from the 'general trades thread'... that'd be something you'd need to take up with the people that mod it. That said... there are plenty of people that like to collect and breed prizes, SO... there DOES need to be at LEAST one place left open to them.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Silverswift

[Syphoneira]

Ummm, kinda wondering why what people ask for trades should be restricted in trade threads simply because some of the people who aren't trading those things get annoyed?

 

Is the purpose of a trade thread for people to post trades asking for what they're looking for, or to suit people trying to trade other things?

 

People can now only post Prize 'have' trades in 2 threads, and what people are looking to trade *for* seriously ought to be their business and that of their target market, rather than controlled by what people not trading with them want to see.

 

If people can't trade for what they want on any thread, they aren't necessarily going to take other things which you may happen to be offering, they just can't trade and have been shut out of venues once available to them.

 

The site needs to cater to all collectors, even if there happen to be a lot focused in one area, and also because that's a lot of people to be shut out of trade venues existing for that purpose exactly because they are a large group of people...

 

 

Edit: and the regular trade thread is great because you can potentially trade/find anything in there and it may be the only place some trades CAN be posted - we absolutely need that general, all-inclusive trade thread above all others.

 

 

Re-edit: oh, dear, I actually wasn't feeling/being snarky and had no idea it might be taken that way. I just think that these are legitimate issues being overlooked by some.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Syphoneira

[AnanoKimi]

Ummm, kinda wondering why what people ask for trades should be restricted in trade threads simply because some of the people who aren't trading those things get annoyed? Is the purpose of a trade thread for people to post trades asking for what they're looking for, or to suit people trying to trade other things?

 

People can now only post Prize 'have' trades in 2 threads, and what people are looking to trade *for* seriously ought to be their business and that of their target market, rather than controlled by what people not trading with them want to see. If people can't trade for what they want on any thread, they aren't necessarily going to take other things which you may happen to be offering, they just can't trade and have been shut out of venues once available to them.

 

-snip-

Well then Syph, I like that snarky side. I have to agree with this. Limiting people's wants isnt going to magically going to make them ask for things of lower value just because you are personally annoyed that you can't cater to that. The moment you restrict those wants for people they will simply not trade.

 

and if you restrict those wants to its own thread then all those offers will appear there and still not be available to you regardless. Its just they will all be compressed into one thread where you can look at it anf still get pissed because everythng nice you want is all their being offered in exchange for things you can't offer. the other threads would be empty of the trades you want to see because a majorityof those trades want hard to obtain stuff.

 

So are you really fixing anything? lol No. You're justgona piss people off.

 

Also, honey ever considered PM some of those people? Some people have a "no other offers please" but some dont. Its not easy but have you considered PM the ones who don't have that statement and saying "Hey I can't catch or offer any of that but I was maybe hoping you could give me a chance to get something else for you, a large catch of something common or uncommon in exchange?"

 

If you are polite some people may understand and agree. Its all about knowing who to talk to and how.

[Beldarius]

That said... there are plenty of people that like to collect and breed prizes, SO... there DOES need to be at LEAST one place left open to them.

That was what I meant by "limiting them to only one thread", i.e. the currently existing Prize thread.

 

I checked the general trading thread, and at least a third or even HALF of each page is Prize haves or wants. I call that "burying ordinary trades".

 

I've seen several people posting an uncommon trade or the like, and mere minutes later there's 3-4 Prize trades that push the uncommon trade to the previous page, meaning it becomes invisible to people who don't bother checking previous pages.

 

I've found Prizes overrated since they were first introduced. In my opinion, only NDs are worth 4 CB Golds or the like. 2G Prizes also count, but 3G Prizes definitely aren't worth more than one CB metal. And 4Gs aren't worth a single one.

[AnanoKimi]

That was what I meant by "limiting them to only one thread", i.e. the currently existing Prize thread.

 

I checked the general trading thread, and at least a third or even HALF of each page is Prize haves or wants. I call that "burying ordinary trades".

 

I've seen several people posting an uncommon trade or the like, and mere minutes later there's 3-4 Prize trades that push the uncommon trade to the previous page, meaning it becomes invisible to people who don't bother checking previous pages.

 

I've found Prizes overrated since they were first introduced. In my opinion, only NDs are worth 4 CB Golds or the like. 2G Prizes also count, but 3G Prizes definitely aren't worth more than one CB metal. And 4Gs aren't worth a single one.

And thats personal opinion. Restricting what someone should be allowed to ask for just because you don't think its worth it is not a good reason. Personally your opinion on prizes is my opinion on Lineages. They are overrated and I feel people put way too much value into them. Does that mean I should ask that trades asking for certain lineages be restricted to its own thread to get them out of the way of other threads like the CB trading and such? No.

 

I'm sorry that its difficult to find trades, trust me I know that feeling but that does not mean you can butt in to what someone personally feels is the value of their trade and make them change it or force them to only be in one place because you don't like it.

[blockEdragon]

IKR?! we don't need more prize threads they are overrated enough as is they don't need more

 

whats the point of prizes anyway?

I just don't see the point of 2nd gen prizes

3rd gens are probably not even gonna get you a CB copper and 4th are useless in terms of trading

and its not like you can lineage craft with them only prize owners can start those

I would just keep my CB gold its offspring would be much more useful then a 2nd gen....lease someone tell me, is there something im not seeing and some secret super amazing thing to them?

[cyradis4]

IKR?! we don't need more prize threads they are overrated enough as is they don't need more

 

whats the point of prizes anyway?

I just don't see the point of 2nd gen prizes

3rd gens are probably not even gonna get you a CB copper and 4th are useless in terms of trading

and its not like you can lineage craft with them only prize owners can start those

I would just keep my CB gold its offspring would be much more useful then a 2nd gen....lease someone tell me, is there something im not seeing and some secret super amazing thing to them?

Starbotz begs to differ!

http://dragcave.net/lineage/36RX2

 

Frankly, you can form all kinds of interesting things with them, but for the most part they aren't "valuable". And its rarely stairs that you can do interesting stuff with. Mostly higher gen even gens, which take some creativity.

 

Most people seem to want Prizes though because they are, well, rare, in low gen.

 

But I still think our current split is ok, trading forum wise.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[lightningsky]

I think the threads are fine the way they are; we have one that is for ONLY Prizes and the only other thread to allow them is the general trade thread - which is just any trade. I don't see why the general thread would cut prizes out when it's supposed to be an all-inclusive thread. Sure prizes dominate there, but to obtain prizes with the lines you want, trade is your only option (besides getting lucky in AP).

[RecycledHeart]

Restricting a person's wants and their ability to say it when it's not offensive at the least just because you don't like it and it annoys you seems to be a bit selfish imo.

 

Not trying to be harsh but that's just how I feel.