Breeding with Holiday Dragons

[Alexiel Dragoness]

I didn't see any thread like this so I thought I should post.

I've seen that most players recently don't want dragons which lineages may continue with a holiday dragon(christmas or halloween). I believe this is due to many new members which don't possess CB holiday dragons, so they can continue the lineage.

Will this means that, for example, if you breed a Tinsel or Shimmer with holidays, you won't be able to trade it, because the lineage is quite unwanted? and for being unwanted, it will be considered less valuable?

what do you think about this?

Edited May 21, 2013 by Alexiel Dragoness

[Red2111]

i think another reaosn people shy away from Prize x Holiday pairings is because of the limited # you get on your scroll; even with Holloween dragons you cna only have so many CB's of them. so if the Prize dragon rejects the intended mate, then your also left with a line you can't continue.

 

 

also, with SW's especially, there are LOADS of Tinsel and Shimmer lines out there. there there are so many of them, makes them undesirable imo.

[Kiyoura]

Demand determines value, so whether not that lineage is "wanted" it absolutely critical to its value. When a few users say they don't want Holidays, I think this leads to a trend of more people following suit because the people before them has set a precedence for what's valuable and what's not. There's also the factor that not everyone can continue them, too. And it's unlike the situation with a CB Metal (CB Holidays might as well be rarer than CB Metals because you can never get a CB Holiday after its release date; with an exception of the Raffle, where CB Hollies were released as runner-ups).

[Alexiel Dragoness]

Yes, that's true.

For example, lets say that I have a shimmer for trade right now. My shimmer has a lineage with a common dragon. I don't like very much that common dragon, in fact I love more some holidays. People are offering me dragons with holidays lineages, of even lower gens. Should I accept the offer?

Or I will just get myself a dragon which offspring will be a pain to trade? since it's unwanted, and therefore less valuable?

[herobrine745]

Not unwanted by everyone.

[Syphoneira]

Whether Holiday lines are wanted will not depend only on whether that person has a free Holiday to continue them, as they may stop breeding a line they like less to use the Holiday from that pairing on one they like better, but there is always the Refusal concern already mentioned by a previous poster, and the Refusal rate certainly seems to have become very high...

 

It's too bad though, that so many people did try to make Shimmer lines 'special' by using Limited Edition dragons as mates without realizing how much they were restricting them in the long run.

 

Personally, I have a lot of unused Lurkers and I'd swap for lines with those, because so do a lot of other people, whereas the SWs have been heavily used and I myself happen to have only two CB pairs.

[anemone]

I understand and respect not wanting holiday mates if you can't continue the line. I'm lucky that I've been here for almost 5 years and have cbs of most of the holidays (except hollies, mine are lineaged, and rosebuds because for some reason I randomly forgot to catch eggs that year ) but I know that probably most users have not been here as long and may not have that same luxury of cb holidays.

 

That said, I do find it a little annoying because personally I think that some of the breeding schemes with holidays are the absolute prettiest. I would give just about anything for a gold shimmer x winter magi but haven't even seen that lineage (and in all fairness wouldn't have anything really great to trade for it anyway LOL). I think it would be gorgeous and it's slightly frustrating that some of the lineages that are the most beautiful (IMO) are considered undesirable.

[Alexiel Dragoness]

I do find it a little annoying because personally I think that some of the breeding schemes with holidays are the absolute prettiest. I would give just about anything for a gold shimmer x winter magi but haven't even seen that lineage (and in all fairness wouldn't have anything really great to trade for it anyway LOL). I think it would be gorgeous and it's slightly frustrating that some of the lineages that are the most beautiful (IMO) are considered undesirable.

That's what I think too. I love the lineage Gold Shimmer x Lurker, and other holiday lineages, but it seems that the most unwanted lineages are the ones with SW and Lurkers Personally I don't like lineages with SWs so much, but the Lurkers are quite new.

My dilemma here is to trade for such a lineage, with holidays, that I love, and then ending up not being able to trade its future offspring because of that. it's really frustrating.

[siliconrose]

I find it rather sad, too, but people can be picky about what they want and don't. It's certainly changed my preferences shimmer-wise -- while I won't completely rule out holidays (I have enough cavern lurkers and shadow walkers to breed until the cows come home), they're certainly not preferred as mates for me now.

[DragonNighthowler]

I have gotten two refusals in a row with common dragons. It was quiet annoying as they were for a project and that quiet delayed me. If that had happened with the only holiday/tinsel lineage I've got, I don't know what I would have done. I admit I didn't think about that possibility at the moment.

 

However, it is not only holidays I reject because there are several I can't continue. Rare mates like CB silvers or golds are a No-No too, as I have only one CB silver and I'm not actively pursuing CB metallics.

Since it is impossible to get CB tinsel/shimmers, people will look for a lineage they can continue and which can be easily replaced in case of a refusal thus, using common dragons is the safest choice in the end.

 

However, there are other beautiful lineages that use holiday dragons. Many of them appear in the AP very often, so I don't think people are not using them. It's just this evengens are not shimmer/tinsels and don't seem to attract that much attention, but they do exist.

[Kiyoura]

However, there are other beautiful lineages that use holiday dragons. Many of them appear in the AP very often, so I don't think people are not using them. It's just this evengens are not shimmer/tinsels and don't seem to attract that much attention, but they do exist.

The other issue with Holidays is that, if they're evengen lineages, it can only be in the 1st gen. Checkered lineages are such a pain to build with them and take so much planning ahead of time (and I don't even try for Xmas/Vday ones). :| And, it's devilishly hard to find mates sometimes, too.

 

For me: I'm a sort of impatient, but patient person. As in, I've traded so many shimmers with lineages that I adore just so I can trade for a shimmer with a lineage I personally think is easier to trade. I try to grab the best shimmer that I can, even if I like the lineage I just traded away more.

 

Again, value is really subjective and I think the best way to play the game is how you want to play it - either you're ready to settle for that shiny lineage you love or you just want to keep "getting richer" by making certain trades. Or you can just not care about whether a lineage is holiday or not. Also, having a common lineage has its disadvantages: you can get shimmerfails. (This is also why Holiday lineages tend to be more common, too, I think.)

 

As for the Holiday refusal thing: I never really considered it that much until one of my Shimmers refused one of my Shadow Walkers. And then I realized I only had a limited amount of SWs to breed afterwards.

[skyie]

I thought it was CB snobbery. "Oh, well, it's two per scroll, so like every peasant has two of those" as opposed to say a CB black or CB Tsunami or so forth.''

 

or it may also be that the options are more limited with only two per scroll..

[DragonNighthowler]

The other issue with Holidays is that, if they're evengen lineages, it can only be in the 1st gen. Checkered lineages are such a pain to build with them and take so much planning ahead of time (and I don't even try for Xmas/Vday ones). :| And, it's devilishly hard to find mates sometimes, too.

 

For me: I'm a sort of impatient, but patient person. As in, I've traded so many shimmers with lineages that I adore just so I can trade for a shimmer with a lineage I personally think is easier to trade. I try to grab the best shimmer that I can, even if I like the lineage I just traded away more.

 

Again, value is really subjective and I think the best way to play the game is how you want to play it - either you're ready to settle for that shiny lineage you love or you just want to keep "getting richer" by making certain trades. Or you can just not care about whether a lineage is holiday or not. Also, having a common lineage has its disadvantages: you can get shimmerfails. (This is also why Holiday lineages tend to be more common, too, I think.)

 

As for the Holiday refusal thing: I never really considered it that much until one of my Shimmers refused one of my Shadow Walkers. And then I realized I only had a limited amount of SWs to breed afterwards.

That is true. Checkered are very pretty but hard to build. Anyways, I don't even try for rare (gold/silver) checkered either because, while not impossible, it takes such a long time it's not even worth the effort. I've spent since October trying to get a 3d gen mate from two silvers to make an arrow of sorts... I'm still waiting. ¬_¬

 

Anyways, I think you nailed which is the main issue with holidays. Limited breeding time, limited nº per scroll (except Halloween), and you can only breed them true once a year.

 

As for commonfails, I have a couple of silvers paired with holiday dragons and another paired with a nebula. I have not observed any significant difference in breeding frequency at all.

The male/nebula have given me 3 silvers.

The female/shadow walker 4.

The male/Cavernlurker has given me no egg at all.

 

Since rare/holidays can only breed true every time, it might give the impression they are better breeders, but I don't think so.

[Alexiel Dragoness]

I thought it was CB snobbery. "Oh, well, it's two per scroll, so like every peasant has two of those" as opposed to say a CB black or CB Tsunami or so forth.''

 

or it may also be that the options are more limited with only two per scroll..

Yes, I still don't understand why christmas and valentine dragons are limited two per scroll, when halloweens are unlimited. I mean, christmas is a time of sharing, and valentine's day is a time of love, so why limit the dragons by two per scroll?

Collectors can't complete their scroll like that. For that they need one adult, one S1 hatchling and one S2 hatchling.

 

Back on topic, for me it is always a pain to trade certain dragons due to people's preferences. When you have your first Shimmers for example, you of course want to trade for more so you can collect different lineages. Thus I feel kinda of forced to get a lineage I like less so I can keep trading

Edited May 22, 2013 by Alexiel Dragoness

[Kiyoura]

Since rare/holidays can only breed true every time, it might give the impression they are better breeders, but I don't think so.

I do have to agree on this point. I only get this impression because in the trading threads, it is far more common to see a metallic from holiday than anything else...

 

However, I don't think this can be answered properly just based on casual observation. (Collecting data from breedings of Shimmers x Holidays versus Shimmers x Common might shed light on this matter.)

[DragonNighthowler]

Yes, I still don't understand why christmas and valentine dragons are limited two per scroll, when halloweens are unlimited. I mean, christmas is a time of sharing, and valentine's day is a time of love, so why limit the dragons by two per scroll?

Collectors can't complete their scroll like that. For that they need one adult, one S1 hatchling and one S2 hatchling.

 

Back on topic, for me it is always a pain to trade certain dragons due to people's preferences. When you have your first Shimmers for example, you of course want to trade for more so you can collect different lineages. Thus I feel kinda of forced to get a lineage I like less so I can keep trading

You said it yourself. TJ considers Valentines and Christmas to be a time for sharing, thus limiting them to two per scroll to give everyone a chance to get the eggs.

 

Meanwhile Halloween is a time for... I'm not really sure because we do not celebrate that here, but it's about getting candies and all, so I think he applies the same principles. Get as many as you can put in your bag.

[missy_]

For Stairstep and Spiral lineages, I love seeing them with holiday dragons, but I am such a new player that I do not have any holiday dragons on my scroll. I would not want to take a pretty lineage and breed something else into it.

 

With even gens, it is different. Sometimes these have a base of Frills, or Old Pinks, for example, and I am happy to have any even gen with holidays in it or any special dragons. Usually these lineages have a lovely mix of dragons in them and I am always happy to have them. I can combine two 4th gens to make a 5th gen, for example.

[DragonNighthowler]

I do have to agree on this point. I only get this impression because in the trading threads, it is far more common to see a metallic from holiday than anything else...

 

However, I don't think this can be answered properly just based on casual observation. (Collecting data from breedings of Shimmers x Holidays versus Shimmers x Common might shed light on this matter.)

That would be really interesting, if it could be done.

[Fuzzbucket]

There's more than one way to build holiday lineages

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/r9GeY

http://dragcave.net/lineage/sfNss

 

And you can trade for more traditional ones.

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/DP0It

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The issue with holiday lineages it that people simply run out of ones to use. I love CB Rosebuds, but I've only got one. I have a 2nd gen Silver from Rosebud that she's mated to. Thus, most Rosebud lineages are worthless to me now because I can't continue them properly, no matter how pretty they look. I actually have both 3rd gen and 4th gen Silvers from lovely Rosebud stairsteps that I can only breed to random mates now, because again, my only Rosebud is mated to the 2nd gen.

 

Halloweens are better, but even they run out. I've eight CB Shadow Walkers, four of each gender, and I still don't have a free male anymore to continue any extra SW stairsteps I get. Sure, I can separate one from a higher gen mate to make room for a lower gen one, but then the higher gen is just sitting around useless, which is a shame.

 

So while I wouldn't say Holiday lineages are worthless, they are definitely going to be trickier to find a market for--at least among people who care about lineage perfection.

Edited May 22, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Ashes The Second]

i've found my 2nd gen silvers/3rd gen golds from holiday parents are picked up rather fast, but it's feeling like it's waning quite a bit.

[arlymaye]

I am a very active trader and yes, I do place the value of the dragons I obtained on how much I can trade off the offspring for. Therefore, holiday lineages is an absolute loss for me if I were to trade a 3rd gen shimmer x common with another with a holiday mate.

 

First, the offspring is pretty much worthless when it comes to trading since the precedence has been set, as someone said earlier that users just prefer not to trade for holiday lineages.

 

Second, I also tend to keep a lot of my own breedings so the inability to continue beyond two (for limited editions holiday pairings) is a huge turn off.

 

Third, I also gift a lot, mostly to those who lack prize dragons. And many of them just doesn't have the CBs to continue. When I do gift out prize dragons, I want them to also have the same ability to trade for more lines but with holiday dragons, the users will be very much restricted.

 

Of course, there are always users who love to collect pretty lines and to them, pairing with holiday dragons are much sought after. However, they are sadly in the minority.

 

This game places a high emphasis on the ability to trade and expand your collection. You can't expand your collection much without trading, and having all the right cards ensures that you have the upper hand when it comes to diversifying your dragon's lineages.

Edited May 22, 2013 by arlymaye

[Alexiel Dragoness]

This game places a high emphasis on the ability to trade and expand your collection. You can't expand your collection much without trading, and having all the right cards ensures that you have the upper hand when it comes to diversifying your dragon's lineages.

You are right, it is.

It's better to have a dragon which lineage is easier to trade, than one that could be prettier at your eyes but wont let you expand your collection. I was trying to trade a shimmer some time ago that had a lineage with commons, and someone even offered me a 3rd gen(lower than mine) shimmer from a holiday line. That made me realize that at this moment the common lineages are much more valuable.

[LuvDragons]

Sure why not use holidays??? If the shimmer draggies like them and create eggs with them you can use that pair all the time. The only drawback is when one has say a female and the holidays were also female and if one has no pinks to influence it then it becomes a whole new ball game.

[rayden54]

Odd. I thought I posted here before.

 

Even if I could continue them, the truth is Metals above 2nd gen (Golds and Silvers) or 3rd-4th gen (Tinsels/Shimmers) aren't really worth much regardless of what they're bred with. They're worth even less to me since, in general, I really don't care for them (Metals that is).

 

That doesn't stop people from offering them though.