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So... Believing rape is a terrible crime and that it's possible to rape your spouse is somehow not superior to the time when rape wasn't even a concept?

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So... Believing rape is a terrible crime and that it's possible to rape your spouse is somehow not superior to the time when rape wasn't even a concept?

If in 50 years from now Jesus comes down from heaven and proves us that God is real and that everything we believed was dumb is actually true.

Your grandson is living in a reality where God is beyond a doubt real, homosexuals are abominations and will go to hell and women who dont want to have sex with their husbands are comitting a sin against God, is your grandson morally superior to you today ? Can he judge your morality even though you were unaware of the fact that God is indeed real ?

 

Marital rape didnt exist, it was husbands and wifes duty to have sex, just like if you were old enough to hold a sword you would be sent to war as it was your duty.. Today those concepts no longer exist.

 

Homosexuality was a normal phenomenon 2000 years ago, and then morals "improved" and homosexuality was no longer normal, some "evil doer" was sitting there thinking homosexuality was a horrid abomination and how his morals were superior coz he has evolved as opposed to them primitive beings sleeping with other men 1500 years ago, who gets to decide whether he was right or wrong ?

 

Something is a norm 2000 years ago, 1000 years later a crime, 1000 years later a norm again, 1000 years from now who knows, maybe hetrosexuality will be a crime.. Moral superiority is just a trend, I mean for crying out loud native Americans were living in synch with nature taking only what they needed while we are exterminating entire species and slowly killing the entire planet just so we can use iphones and play video games or whatever, is all that morally superior or just convenient ?

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It's just as much of a stereotype to claim that Native Americans never wasted anything and only "took what they needed" as it is to claim that all Christians are deranged and stupid.

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If in 50 years from now Jesus comes down from heaven and proves us that God is real and that everything we believed was dumb is actually true.

Your grandson is living in a reality where God is beyond a doubt real, homosexuals are abominations and will go to hell and women who dont want to have sex with their husbands are comitting a sin against God, is your grandson morally superior to you today ? Can he judge your morality even though you were unaware of the fact that God is indeed real ?

 

Marital rape didnt exist, it was husbands and wifes duty to have sex, just like if you were old enough to hold a sword you would be sent to war as it was your duty.. Today those concepts no longer exist.

 

Homosexuality was a normal phenomenon 2000 years ago, and then morals "improved" and homosexuality was no longer normal, some "evil doer" was sitting there thinking homosexuality was a horrid abomination and how his morals were superior coz he has evolved as opposed to them primitive beings sleeping with other men 1500 years ago, who gets to decide whether he was right or wrong ?

 

Something is a norm 2000 years ago, 1000 years later a crime, 1000 years later a norm again, 1000 years from now who knows, maybe hetrosexuality will be a crime.. Moral superiority is just a trend, I mean for crying out loud native Americans were living in synch with nature taking only what they needed while we are exterminating entire species and slowly killing the entire planet just so we can use iphones and play video games or whatever, is all that morally superior or just convenient ?

If that's they case, then I would GLADLY go to hell for defying such a terrible god. I refuse to believe homosexuals, women, minorities, etc have to take a backseat to those the Christian god deems privileged.

 

I am no one's property. I will not hold my tongue as a man tells, and if I were to marry it is NOT my obligation to have sex with him, especially when I'm NOT in the mood.

 

 

And if anything, we're actually putting forward a LOT more efforts into protection and preserving species. There are regulations out the wazoo for fishing and hunting, people are seriously fined/jailed for poaching, etc. While it's true species have gone extinct due to our actions, we're also trying to make up for said actions and use the technology we have to protect the remaining ones.

 

Our world is also doing a fine job of taking care of itself. There are animals that have adapted to live in man-made environments, and if we were to ever go extinct, they would as well. Plants and animals have shown to return to places where nuclear bombs went off and the radiation has died down enough. Any abandoned building can be see with plants slowly taking over.

 

Also I do think there's a bit of irony to you crying out over the technology ruining the world, but you needed such a device to post... I think the only justification there is that it's the only good way to get the point across, but you're still using the same technology you claim is plaguing the Earth. :P Just pointing that out.

 

EDIT: (I'm feeling like I'm getting too riled so I'ma calm down because I shouldn't be so upset. Ugh. I'm just imagining god coming down and saying that, though, and it ticks me off. xP)

Edited by edwardelricfreak

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*pats Edwardelricfan*

 

Eh, at my church it said that kind of thing Bacon. And I found a thing after looking it up, soh, yeah, there still is that mindset, even in non-extremist groups.

 

Is such sexism today restricted to the desiccated celibates of the Roman Catholic hierarchy? Not at all. The Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States, recently declared that women should submit to the "servant leadership" of their husbands. Even more recently, the Baptists have strongly urged that women not become senior pastors. Pat Robertson gave the fundamentalist view of the role of women: "God has established a pattern. He is the head of man and man is to be the head of woman, and together they are to be the head of children ... in the government of the family and the church, men are to be the leaders" (quoted in Nava and Dawidoff, 1994, p. 95).

Baptist apologists were quick to emphasize that husbands, the "servant leaders," are not to behave in a dictatorial manner but must practice Christ-like agape love. They imply that any woman should be struck dumb with gratitude for the opportunity to submit to such leadership. No matter how you slice it though, Baptist doctrine makes the man the boss. "Kinder, Kuche, Kirche" is still the Southern Baptist ideal of womanhood. What reasons justify such strictures? Baptists offer none, at least none that would make sense.

Edited by BlightWyvern

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*pats Edwardelricfan*

 

Eh, at my church it said that kind of thing Bacon. And I found a thing after looking it up, soh, yeah, there still is that mindset, even in non-extremist groups.

 

Is such sexism today restricted to the desiccated celibates of the Roman Catholic hierarchy? Not at all. The Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States, recently declared that women should submit to the "servant leadership" of their husbands. Even more recently, the Baptists have strongly urged that women not become senior pastors. Pat Robertson gave the fundamentalist view of the role of women: "God has established a pattern. He is the head of man and man is to be the head of woman, and together they are to be the head of children ... in the government of the family and the church, men are to be the leaders" (quoted in Nava and Dawidoff, 1994, p. 95).

Baptist apologists were quick to emphasize that husbands, the "servant leaders," are not to behave in a dictatorial manner but must practice Christ-like agape love. They imply that any woman should be struck dumb with gratitude for the opportunity to submit to such leadership. No matter how you slice it though, Baptist doctrine makes the man the boss. "Kinder, Kuche, Kirche" is still the Southern Baptist ideal of womanhood. What reasons justify such strictures? Baptists offer none, at least none that would make sense.

PFFTT!!!! HAHA! *Laughing at the religion rules there, not at you.*

 

I'm Christian, but I'll be (censored) before I ever submit to any man. I've often found myself thinking about finding some sort of Amazonian based religion, but can't for the life of me find one I feel comfortable with. I've considered Druidism, Wicca, any number of different religions, but there are too many things involved that I can't "feel". But I'm at the same odds with my own religion, so I'm kind of up the creek. There isn't a single religion in existence that doesn't rub me the wrong way, including my own, but I stick with it because it's all I've ever known and gives me comfort in my darkest hours. Still... the whole "submit to your man" thing has GOT to go!

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PFFTT!!!! HAHA! *Laughing at the religion rules there, not at you.*

 

I'm Christian, but I'll be (censored) before I ever submit to any man. I've often found myself thinking about finding some sort of Amazonian based religion, but can't for the life of me find one I feel comfortable with. I've considered Druidism, Wicca, any number of different religions, but there are too many things involved that I can't "feel". But I'm at the same odds with my own religion, so I'm kind of up the creek. There isn't a single religion in existence that doesn't rub me the wrong way, including my own, but I stick with it because it's all I've ever known and gives me comfort in my darkest hours. Still... the whole "submit to your man" thing has GOT to go!

Why conform to a specific set of beliefs? There's only society that dubs you as a specific label/category :3 Be what you want to be. Just because you're _____ doesn't mean you can't make/do ______ (this is in a loose sense, as in, you don't have to conform to any religion and act or try to how they deem you to...) I worded that kinda bad..lol xP

Edited by BlightWyvern

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Why conform to a specific set of beliefs? There's only society that dubs you as a specific label/category :3 Be what you want to be. Just because you're _____ doesn't mean you can't make/do ______ (this is in a loose sense, as in, you don't have to conform to any religion and act or try to how they deem you to...) I worded that kinda bad..lol xP

LOL! I understand what you're saying though. Problem is, I still get labeled when being "outside the box" with my beliefs. Christians, even Atheists, will say I'm "cherry picking" or "taylor making" my own religion by clinging to some beliefs while discarding others. It seems people will label a person no matter what they try to do. Especially Christians hate it when others say "MY God wouldn't expect (this or that)". Then again, I know you can't make everyone happy, so you just have to go with what you feel is right for yourself - and for the most part, that's what I've been doing, which has me labeled as a "cherry picker". xd.png

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I've often found myself thinking about finding some sort of Amazonian based religion, but can't for the life of me find one I feel comfortable with. I've considered Druidism, Wicca, any number of different religions, but there are too many things involved that I can't "feel". But I'm at the same odds with my own religion, so I'm kind of up the creek. There isn't a single religion in existence that doesn't rub me the wrong way, including my own, but I stick with it because it's all I've ever known and gives me comfort in my darkest hours.

How about Unitarian Universalism?

 

As Wikipedia puts it, it's all about your "free and responsible search for truth and meaning" and "The defining belief of Unitarian Universalism is that religion is a matter of individual experience, and that, therefore, only the individual can decide what to 'believe.'"

 

It's what I am. c:

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How about Unitarian Universalism?

 

As Wikipedia puts it, it's all about your "free and responsible search for truth and meaning" and "The defining belief of Unitarian Universalism is that religion is a matter of individual experience, and that, therefore, only the individual can decide what to 'believe.'"

 

It's what I am. c:

Thank you very much for the suggestion. I like the sound of it, so I'll be looking into it. So here begins my journey, my search for my own truth so to speak. wink.gif

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How about Unitarian Universalism?

 

As Wikipedia puts it, it's all about your "free and responsible search for truth and meaning" and "The defining belief of Unitarian Universalism is that religion is a matter of individual experience, and that, therefore, only the individual can decide what to 'believe.'"

 

It's what I am. c:

One of the friends we're living with right now actually helps run a unitarian universalist group.

 

Unitarian universalism is most in line with what I actually believe, although I refuse to follow or identify with any organized religion.

 

I'm largely agnostic, anyhow. v:

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If that's they case, then I would GLADLY go to hell for defying such a terrible god. I refuse to believe homosexuals, women, minorities, etc have to take a backseat to those the Christian god deems privileged.

 

I am no one's property. I will not hold my tongue as a man tells, and if I were to marry it is NOT my obligation to have sex with him, especially when I'm NOT in the mood.

 

 

And if anything, we're actually putting forward a LOT more efforts into protection and preserving species. There are regulations out the wazoo for fishing and hunting, people are seriously fined/jailed for poaching, etc. While it's true species have gone extinct due to our actions, we're also trying to make up for said actions and use the technology we have to protect the remaining ones.

 

Our world is also doing a fine job of taking care of itself. There are animals that have adapted to live in man-made environments, and if we were to ever go extinct, they would as well. Plants and animals have shown to return to places where nuclear bombs went off and the radiation has died down enough. Any abandoned building can be see with plants slowly taking over.

 

Also I do think there's a bit of irony to you crying out over the technology ruining the world, but you needed such a device to post... I think the only justification there is that it's the only good way to get the point across, but you're still using the same technology you claim is plaguing the Earth. tongue.gif Just pointing that out.

 

EDIT: (I'm feeling like I'm getting too riled so I'ma calm down because I shouldn't be so upset. Ugh. I'm just imagining god coming down and saying that, though, and it ticks me off. xP)

First of all, you shouldnt get upset over smth as this biggrin.gif

 

Second of all,I know you would rather go to hell for defying such horrid God, all Im doing here is trying to open up your mind to the possibility of objectivity which states - You believe that the set of values you have is the right one coz you are a good person and coz society has raised you to believe that good people believe what you believe - You think it was your choice to believe that, but being a good person you are, you didnt have much of a choice to begin with.

 

If you were born and raised in another era or just another country you would be holding a completely different set of values coz to be a good person in another country means to have a different set of values... Step out of your subjectivity zone for a minute and you will understand that morals are just a trend of your current environment and by no means some ultimate superior morals, its just that every society must believe its morals are superior otherwise they wouldnt believe in them...

 

Im not even gonna open a discussion about preservation of species...

 

Things Im saying about technology arent ironic one bit coz Im not claiming moral superiority, let me be blunt and say it out loud - if presented with a choice of never having my internet access to help save a certain specie of lizards, I would say kill them all coz Im that selfish and entitled (I would feel bad but not bad enough to lose my internet), I also believe you want to think you would give up internet to save them but in the long run you would be just as bad as me and would instead save a kitten, plant a few plants or do smth else to justify why you had to exterminate a specie of lizards for your comfort...

I am fully aware of my environment and of the fact that my morals are just a product of my environment combined with me being a good person, thats all..

Edited by The Evil Doer

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One of the friends we're living with right now actually helps run a unitarian universalist group.

 

Unitarian universalism is most in line with what I actually believe, although I refuse to follow or identify with any organized religion.

 

I'm largely agnostic, anyhow. v:

But being agnostic wouldn't prevent you from being a UU. >w<

 

I understand, though. Some people just don't like identifying with a group. Some have a tendency to feel like doing so makes them some sort of sheep.

 

For me, I think it's perfectly okay to believe stuff and NOT have a religion, as beliefs don't have to be one (though religion does have to be beliefs because it's a collection of them).

 

I probably wouldn't identify with one, either, but I think that it's easier to describe what I believe if there's already a similar collection of beliefs out there. For me, I think it's easier to say that I'm a UU than trying to explain EVERY belief I have. >w<

 

Second of all,I know you would rather go to hell for defying such horrid God, all Im doing here is trying to open up your mind to the possibility of objectivity which states - You believe that the set of values you have is the right one coz you are a good person and coz society has raised you to believe that good people believe what you believe - You think it was your choice to believe that, but being a good person you are, you didnt have much of a choice to begin with.

 

If you were born and raised in another era or just another country you would be holding a completely different set of values coz to be a good person in another country means to have a different set of values... Step out of your subjectivity zone for a minute and you will understand that morals are just a trend of your current environment and by no means some ultimate superior morals, its just that every society must believe its morals are superior otherwise they wouldnt believe in them...

 

Im not even gonna open a discussion about preservation of species...

 

Things Im saying about technology arent ironic one bit coz Im not claiming moral superiority, let me be blunt and say it out loud - if presented with a choice of never having my internet access to help save a certain specie of lizards, I would say kill them all coz Im that selfish and entitled (I would feel bad but not bad enough to lose my internet), I also believe you want to think you would give up internet to save them but in the long run you would be just as bad as me and would instead save a kitten, plant a few plants or do smth else to justify why you had to exterminate a specie of lizards for your comfort...

I am fully aware of my environment and of the fact that my morals are just a product of my environment combined with me being a good person, thats all..

I already understand that. I've taken a few Sociology classes so I understand that it depends on the society and the values it holds. However, I believe that the more we can benefit everyone, the better things get. While part of it DOES have to do with the society, I think it's ALSO human nature (and even other part of nature, as we're simply just another animal species when it comes down to it). We generally don't like pain, physical/mental/emotional, we have needs that we want to meet because otherwise we suffer, etc. So it's less of "society taught me x" and more of "nature tells us that we need these things, and since our society also shows we need other certain things, we need to be able to get those things". That goes for anything and everything, so yes, though I want to hold a relativistic view of the morals, etc, of all different societies, I think that morals based on those needs CAN be higher or lower depending on their nature. I'm not denying that.

 

Even if the morals aren't as advanced or "superior" or whatever as now (this is subjective terms only to get the point across), so long as people still followed whatever they believed in and were at their best, then that's actually good enough for me. Even if I were in a different era, I'd still try to do as much good as I could, for whatever the morals and laws were. Probably. I don't know, I didn't live then. I'd like to think that I would be relatively the same person.

 

Kill ALL the lizards!

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I went to a UU church once and wrote a paper on them. I can't claim to be an expert, but I found them to be a little too... wishy-washy for my taste. The service was nice, we sang songs in different languages and talked about equality and stuff, but it really felt like a religious salad bar. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Some people want that. I think I'd rather stick to being a humanist atheist.

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I went to a UU church once and wrote a paper on them. I can't claim to be an expert, but I found them to be a little too... wishy-washy for my taste. The service was nice, we sang songs in different languages and talked about equality and stuff, but it really felt like a religious salad bar. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Some people want that. I think I'd rather stick to being a humanist atheist.

"Wishy-washy"?

 

Because they don't tell you to believe one specific thing it makes them wishy-washy?

 

The whole point is allowing you to choose your own path...

 

I just feel like maybe you're used to religions being strict in beliefs and having a rigid structure and rules. I just don't like the term wishy-washy for UU...Then again it varies church by church. Some of the smaller congregations can seem not as..."fun" I guess. My church isn't huge but it is one of the older churches with a larger congregation, so we do lots of stuff.

 

Again, you can still be a humanist atheist while also being a UU.

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Again, you can still be a humanist atheist while also being a UU.

That's kind of what bugs me about it. It almost seems like a useless label, because people who identify as Unitarian Universalist can be atheist, agnostic, pagan, humanist, Satanist, Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, whatever. I get that people value the church community, and I can definitely see how atheists and agnostics would value it because we don't have churches, but it's just not for me.

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If in 50 years from now Jesus comes down from heaven and proves us that God is real and that everything we believed was dumb is actually true.

Your grandson is living in a reality where God is beyond a doubt real, homosexuals are abominations and will go to hell and women who dont want to have sex with their husbands are comitting a sin against God, is your grandson morally superior to you today ?

I find the assumptions about what Christians believe in this statement to be incredibly offensive. There are no recorded statements of Jesus condemning homosexuals, and Jesus's treatment of women gives basis for equality of the sexes, not male dominance. While some [who call themselves Christian] may push their own agenda for superiority through "proclaiming" faith, there are very many [who call themselves Christian] who disagree with that perspective.

 

I believe in equality between man & woman because I am a Christian, not in spite of it. According to scripture, God created man and woman as partners, equals: in God’s image, male and female. Yes, there was fall from grace and God told Eve that her husband would rule over her; this has been applied to all women over the ages. But then Jesus came, to restore us to the condition in which we were created. He told women as well as men that they were forgiven (most notably the woman who washed Jesus’s feet with her tears and dried them with her hair, Luke 7:36-50). And when Jesus forgives, it is not only a little bit, or half way. It is complete. Thus, men and women are restored to the equal status in which created.

 

Jesus did not tolerate folks condemning others; He taught mercy instead. He chided the hypocrites (classic passage, Matthew 7:1-5 or Luke 6:37-42). He pointed out that it was more important to follow the intent of the law than the letter of it (example in Mark 7:1-23). Jesus did not condone violence or hatred over letting folks love one another.

 

TL;DR: Please do not stereotype all Christians with implications of beliefs that are not even close to universally accepted.

Edited by Awdz Bodkins

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I believe in equality between man & woman because I am a Christian, not in spite of it.  According to scripture, God created man and woman as partners, equals:  in God’s image, male and female.  Yes, there was fall from grace and God told Eve that her husband would rule over her; this has been applied to all women over the ages.  But then Jesus came, to restore us to the condition in which we were created.  He told women as well as men that they were forgiven (most notably the woman who washed Jesus’s feet with her tears and dried them with her hair, Luke 7:36-50).  And when Jesus forgives, it is not only a little bit, or half way.  It is complete.  Thus, men and women are restored to the equal status in which created.

 

Totally agree with your statement with people asserting and manipulating their faith for their own gain.

 

Depends, are we including Lilith in this? Cause Lilith and Adam were "equal" both made from dust. According to the Alphabet of Ben Sira, Lilith was Adam’s first wife but the couple fought all the time. They didn’t see eye-to-eye on matters of being the submissive. When they could not agree, Lilith decided to leave Adam. She uttered God’s name and flew into the air, leaving Adam alone in the Garden of Eden. God sent three angels after her and commanded them to bring her back to her husband by force if she would not come willingly. But when the angels found her by the Red Sea they were unable to convince her to return and could not force her to obey them.

 

Then God made Eve from Adam's rib, then we meet the serpent whom can be claimed to be Lilith (as the serpent did not have a name, some infer to be Lilith)

 

 

Story of Lilith

 

Then back to humans being restored back to what the original ones did that screwed 100+ future generations over forever so they need to be called to repentance.

Edited by BlightWyvern

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Short answer, nope, I do not consider Lilith the first woman. Eve was created as partner (equal) to Adam.

 

Kind makes me wonder, though, when considering evolution... There is evidence that some Neanderthals and homo sapiens lived together. Perhaps Lilith was a Neanderthal while both Adam and Eve were homo sapiens?

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But being agnostic wouldn't prevent you from being a UU. >w<

 

I understand, though. Some people just don't like identifying with a group. Some have a tendency to feel like doing so makes them some sort of sheep.

 

For me, I think it's perfectly okay to believe stuff and NOT have a religion, as beliefs don't have to be one (though religion does have to be beliefs because it's a collection of them).

 

I probably wouldn't identify with one, either, but I think that it's easier to describe what I believe if there's already a similar collection of beliefs out there. For me, I think it's easier to say that I'm a UU than trying to explain EVERY belief I have. >w<

I won't identify with religion because I've come to the realization that religion is a large part of what makes people hate and discriminate today. I can't, won't, identify with something that promotes less than equal rights for everyone and/or denies basic rights of any kind to any/every person.

 

I try to follow the teaching of Jesus instead - love thy neighbor. In my opinion it's something too many people have lost sight of with regards to religion, especially Christianity. People use the bible for justification of patriarchy/female submission, for justification of persecution of other sexualities, and other horrible things. This is not what Jesus taught.

 

For the record, I don't know if I actually qualify as truly agnostic. I hold a belief in a God and in Jesus, but because I cannot prove the existence of my God I cannot deny the existence of other god(s). It somehow doesn't make sense to me to accept without proof the existence of my God and deny others gods also without proof.

So I just kind of accept it all. v: I have doubts and skepticism, but I just kind of go with it.

 

Awdz - I tend to sort of combine evolution and creationism. I like to think that if the world was created by a supreme creator, then that creator just let things run for a while before creating the next thing...let life shape itself for awhile. Seems like a great compromise of beliefs to me.

 

I can't bring myself to believe solely in creationism. There is far too much evidence for evolution. We share ~50% of our DNA with bananas, as much as 99% with chimps, varying percentages with other things...something went on there to make that happen. We've found zircons in australia dated to more than four billion years old. To someone like me who grounds their world in logic and reality for the most part, these are not things I can deny.

 

Blight -

I've never heard that story. o.O I'm pretty sure Eve was the first woman, created from Adam's rib to be his wife.

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I've never heard that story. o.O I'm pretty sure Eve was the first woman, created from Adam's rib to be his wife.

Never read it myself, of course, but it's a pretty neat story/idea.

 

I heard of it when a piece of art was shown around and the attached description was:

 

Kiki Smith - Lilith, 1994 - Bronze, silicon, and glass.

 

“In medieval Jewish lore, Lilith was Adam’s first wife.  When she demanded to be Adam’s equal, she was evicted from the Garden of Eden.  Lilith flew away to the demon world, replaced by the more submissive Eve.  Smith catches us off guard with Lilith’s pose and placement.  Most sculptures receive our gaze passively, but Lilith stares back with piercing brown eyes, ready to pounce.”

 

Just pasted the whole art information here. o3o

 

The art was pretty cool and creepy, too. Will PM it to anybody interested.

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There are no recorded statements of Jesus condemning homosexuals, and Jesus's treatment of women gives basis for equality of the sexes, not male dominance. While some [who call themselves Christian] may push their own agenda for superiority through "proclaiming" faith, there are very many [who call themselves Christian] who disagree with that perspective.

This. Right here. I planned on simply lurking this topic, but after reading this, I wanted to give you a hearty round of applause.

 

Regardless of your beliefs on the man Jesus, looking at his teachings shows that Christianity in its truest form should be nothing but a religion full of loving and accepting people. There was no judgement in anything Jesus taught. He didn't care who or what you were. In his eyes, all were equal and all were meant to be loved.

 

I dearly wish more people that call themselves Christians lived by the true teachings of Christianity. It is my opinion that there are too many Sunday Christians in the world today; that is, people that think going to a building one day a week to surround themselves with other people talking about Jesus makes them Christian. Going to church on Sunday doesn't make you Christian. Praying before you eat doesn't make you Christian. Fasting for Lent, reading the Bible, confessing your sins to a priest or a pastor, getting baptized... none of that makes a person Christian. True, the definition of a Christian is simply someone that believes Jesus to be the Son of God, but Christianity, true Christianity, is a life style. Yes, there's the church and the prayer... but there's also the morals and living your life as a truly honest and good person. Judging and condemning those because of their differences, living with hate in your heart because of a difference? That is not true Christianity.

 

If more people lived by the true teachings of Christianity, I would still consider myself to be religious. As it is, I try my best to live my life based on the true teaching of Jesus- not to judge, not to condemn others, to love those around me regardless of their differences, and, above all else, The Golden Rule: do unto others as I would want them to do unto me. I try to do these things- and I, being human, am far from perfect -but I cannot call myself a Christian.

 

I'll step off my soapbox now, but I leave with one last thought. I consider there to be two true evils in our world: money and organized religion. How many people have been persecuted, disowned by their families, murdered due to their own or another's religious belief? How many people have been outcast, beat down, or forced to live in fear for their lives due to their own or another's religious belief? Too many. Not just Christians, but all religions and non-believers: Pagans, Muslims, and Jews are just a few that spring immediately to mind. There is far too great of a divide between these groups. Our differences should be embraced and celebrated. Our difference are what make us human.

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@Millie Azure - Exactly! Even Jesus said he'd rather a person go shut themselves in their closet to pray rather than use their religion as a way to gain status, or whatever they did with it - snobbery. As a Christian, nothing irritates me more than another Christian patronizing others and being preachy, saying this religion, or that religion, will burn if they don't change their ways. My belief is we all come to "God" in our own way... and it certainly seems to me that this is how Jesus actually prefers it.

 

 

About that Lilith story - I've heard that a long time ago. It's one of the things that scared me away from religion until I realized it was Jewish lore and not the actual Bible. Nonetheless, it was ancient peoples using religion as a means of keeping their women under their thumbs and silent by saying "See? If you don't obey me, you'll become a demon and burn!" The demonizing of Lilith always seriously got under my skin. She's EVIL because she won't submit to a man? HAH! Please! That story was SO written by a frustrated man.

 

Since Lilith had the sensibilities to demand the equality she was actually created with, I'd like to think that SHE was the Homo Sapien while Adam (acting like a typical cave man) was the Neanderthal.

 

And as for the Bible - it was written by "men". Sure, they were inspired by God, but who's to say they didn't take liberties here and there? Especially when it came to controlling women. Who's to say things weren't a bit skewed? For example, maybe Adam shoved that apple down Eve's throat and then blamed her.

 

I have to add a bit of religious comic relief here, so please don't take it seriously. It's just a great joke I heard.... God made Adam first, so he was the rough draft. Eve was the perfected model. wink.gif

Edited by LadyFoxfire

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I tend to sort of combine evolution and creationism. I like to think that if the world was created by a supreme creator, then that creator just let things run for a while before creating the next thing...let life shape itself for awhile. Seems like a great compromise of beliefs to me.

I agree, though I don't think God just left it be. I think evolution is the how for God creating. I consider religion more the who/why and science the what/how; they are not mutually exclusive, but rather go hand-in-hand for me.

 

I dearly wish more people that call themselves Christians lived by the true teachings of Christianity. It is my opinion that there are too many Sunday Christians in the world today; that is, people that think going to a building one day a week to surround themselves with other people talking about Jesus makes them Christian. Going to church on Sunday doesn't make you Christian. Praying before you eat doesn't make you Christian. Fasting for Lent, reading the Bible, confessing your sins to a priest or a pastor, getting baptized... none of that makes a person Christian. True, the definition of a Christian is simply someone that believes Jesus to be the Son of God, but Christianity, true Christianity, is a life style. Yes, there's the church and the prayer... but there's also the morals and living your life as a truly honest and good person. Judging and condemning those because of their differences, living with hate in your heart because of a difference? That is not true Christianity.

 

If more people lived by the true teachings of Christianity, I would still consider myself to be religious.

While church leaders may point to changing way of life (totally flexible schedules, internet interactions) as the biggest reason for decline of church membership, I think you actually hit the truest reason here.

Edited by Awdz Bodkins

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To be completely honest, I'd believe in Norse or Greek gods over the Christian god. Why? Because they have personality. The modern god tends to lack personality of any kind and, if it did exist, I'd have a hard time believing it could created beings with personalities. Humans are flawed so what we create us flawed. If a god is perfect, their creations should be perfect as well. The Norse and Greek gods had distinct personalities so it makes more sense if they created flawed creations.

 

But I'm still an Athiest at the end of the day. Religion just isn't for me.

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