Sexism

[Rosedamai]

Will those women not expect their husbands to protect them from danger (physical danger for example) ?

 

Will those women (career women) be attracted to guys who cant provide financially, guys who cant hold a job, with no degrees etc or will they look for someone who is at least on their level (career wise) ??

To go further: bit of a background knowledge, but usually a pregnant woman is expected to care for herself as her husband is too busy at work to care for her. Usually the women go to their respective family-that is, her mom and dad-where she'll be looked after by her mom. The husband is only present on the birthing day, usually. Less stress for both of them. And it is often though that her mom w the knowledge of having being pregnant will prepare her better. It's usually that or a birthing center, also tremendously popular.

 

And the guys with the higher degrees? Most of them aren't attracted to a rather old, and more important, financially "intimidating" women matching their own caliber-unless you're talking about the real, old-money types who arrange marriages. If she marries "below" her station, so to speak, the husband often than not get grudges and such. So, less women get married.

 

And it's the providing part I'm having trouble with.

Edited February 7, 2012 by ylangylang

[Packgoater]

Will those women not expect their husbands to protect them from danger (physical danger for example) ?

 

Will those women (career women) be attracted to guys who cant provide financially, guys who cant hold a job, with no degrees etc or will they look for someone who is at least on their level (career wise) ??

 

Edit : Quoting my earlier post -

 

 

 

Clearer ?

I perhaps am not the age that I really want or am looking for a husband yet, but I do have a bit of a response to this.

 

I don't want to be "Protected" or "Provided" for. I want to be able to protect and provide for myself.

 

It's called self-reliance, which I think more than 5% of the female population want to have.

 

It's kind of degrading to be in the mindset that females, in general, want to be protected and not want to get their hands dirty.

 

Honestly, if I was jumped on the street, I'd want to be able to defend myself. Because a girl's boyfriend won't always be there.

 

I want to be strong enough that if I got jumped alone, I could defend myself. I don't want to have to rely on someone when there's not a guarantee that they'll be there all the time.

 

Considering I want to go to a good law school, I think it's easy enough to say I don't want to be provided for, either.

 

Of course a girl doesn't want a loser who can't support himself in any way, shape, or form. We want someone who might be as stand alone as we are. And that shouldn't be taken as us saying that we want someone to care for us and be our Protector and Provider.

 

[Princess Artemis]

3. Protector and Provider is what women are looking for as in a basic need, girl needs to feel safe with her man, whether it is financially safe or physically safe (you are walking down the street with your boyfriend and you get attacked, every woman expects or at least hopes that her boyfriend will protect her), when your boyfriend/husband holds you in his arms you should feel safe, thats the basic need every woman is looking for, psychology 1 on 1, you might be aware of it, it might be on a subconscious level but it is what it is.

Like hell!

 

ETA:

I'll elaborate. No, no no no, and nooooo. This makes quite the assumption that every woman really, deep down, whether she knows it or not, just needs a man, and OMG no.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[The Evil Doer]

To go further: bit of a background knowledge, but usually a pregnant woman is expected to care for herself as her husband is too busy at work to care for her. Usually the women go to their respective family-that is, her mom and dad-where she'll be looked after by her mom. The husband is only present on the birthing day, usually. Less stress for both of them. And it is often though that her mom w the knowledge of having being pregnant will prepare her better. It's usually that or a birthing center, also tremendously popular.

 

And the guys with the higher degrees? Most of them aren't attracted to a rather old, and more important, financially "intimidating" women matching their own caliber-unless you're talking about the real, old-money types who arrange marriages. If she marries "below" her station, so to speak, the husband often than not get grudges and such. So, less women get married.

 

And it's the providing part I'm having trouble with.

ylangylang, its not about caring, its about feeling safe.

 

Again, failed to understand the part about marriages.

Do you agree that a successful woman (doctor, lawyer, etc) will ideally go for a guy who is at least as successful as her ?

Do you agree that any woman expects her husband to protect her ?

 

Again, the providing part is not in a sense of women want to sit at home and have someone take care of them, its the basic need of being safe, safety is both physical and financial.

[Kestra15]

Like hell!

 

ETA:

I'll elaborate. No, no no no, and nooooo. This makes quite the assumption that every woman really, deep down, whether she knows it or not, just needs a man, and OMG no.

So you don't want a partner who can provide and protect? Rubbish. Every person, male and female, looks for safety and security. It doesn't mean you have to be the weaker of the pair, but everyone wants to know if it all goes to hell that there is some measure of safety and protection - physically, financially, emotionally.

[Rosedamai]

ylangylang, its not about caring, its about feeling safe.

 

Again, failed to understand the part about marriages.

Do you agree that a successful woman (doctor, lawyer, etc) will ideally go for a guy who is at least as successful as her ?

Do you agree that any woman expects her husband to protect her ?

 

Again, the providing part is not in a sense of women want to sit at home and have someone take care of them, its the basic need of being safe, safety is both physical and financial.

Hmmm? I don't get it, she's usually feeling safe because she's surrounded by her family.

 

And women who are that successful can't really marry either way...a bit of a catch-22 for them. Why? Successful men don't want to marry a comparatively old woman in hermiddle to late thirties, and less successful men feel intimidated by their partner's success. Crappy, I know, but that's what happens.

 

And why would you assume that feeling safe is only what women want? I think it's something that everyone wants actually.

[The Evil Doer]

I perhaps am not the age that I really want or am looking for a husband yet, but I do have a bit of a response to this.

 

I don't want to be "Protected" or "Provided" for. I want to be able to protect and provide for myself.

 

It's called self-reliance, which I think more than 5% of the female population want to have.

 

It's kind of degrading to be in the mindset that females, in general, want to be protected and not want to get their hands dirty.

 

Honestly, if I was jumped on the street, I'd want to be able to defend myself. Because a girl's boyfriend won't always be there.

 

I want to be strong enough that if I got jumped alone, I could defend myself. I don't want to have to rely on someone when there's not a guarantee that they'll be there all the time.

 

Considering I want to go to a good law school, I think it's easy enough to say I don't want to be provided for, either.

 

Of course a girl doesn't want a loser who can't support himself in any way, shape, or form. We want someone who might be as stand alone as we are. And that shouldn't be taken as us saying that we want someone to care for us and be our Protector and Provider.

Self reliance is what everybody should aim for but wanting safety doesnt mean you cant stand on your own.

 

You want to be able to protect yourself, thats admirable but -

You are walking down the street with your boyfriend - do you not expect him to protect you ? If he screams "run!" and starts running will he remain your boyfriend ? Lets be honest for a second, he's history

 

We want someone who might be as stand alone as we are.

 

Those are your words !

 

I too claimed that you will want someone who is at least like you, so I dont get what dont you agree on with in my statement ?

[WereJace]

I'd rather have a partner who I was personally, physically and emotionally compatible with. An equal. Finances and the nebulous 'protection' are pretty far out of the picture-I can take care of myself in that regard.

[Kestra15]

Hmmm? I don't get it, she's usually feeling safe because she's surrounded by her family.

 

And women who are that successful can't really marry either way...a bit of a catch-22 for them. Why? Successful men don't want to marry a comparatively old woman in hermiddle to late thirties, and less successful men feel intimidated by their partner's success. Crappy, I know, but that's what happens.

 

And why would you assume that feeling safe is only what women want? I think it's something that everyone wants actually.

Again, rubbish. I have always known my partner will be the more successful of the pair of us. She currently earns twice as much as me, has always had thousands of pounds more than more, and even if I become a full Nurse, she would already be earning more than I ever will by that point - and she could still go far further. All before we're both thirty as well.

 

Do I feel intimidated? No. Am I successful? Depends how you measure success, especially once I get my third degree. Do I feel safe? Definitely.

[Rosedamai]

Again, rubbish. I have always known my partner will be the more successful of the pair of us. She currently earns twice as much as me, has always had thousands of pounds more than more, and even if I become a full Nurse, she would already be earning more than I ever will by that point - and she could still go far further. All before we're both thirty as well.

 

Do I feel intimidated? No. Am I successful? Depends how you measure success, especially once I get my third degree. Do I feel safe? Definitely.

No no no no no, it's what usually happens in my country, sadly..still very patriarchal and very much sexist. Good to see it doesn't happen in yours.

Edited February 7, 2012 by ylangylang

[The Evil Doer]

Hmmm? I don't get it, she's usually feeling safe because she's surrounded by her family.

 

And women who are that successful can't really marry either way...a bit of a catch-22 for them. Why? Successful men don't want to marry a comparatively old woman in hermiddle to late thirties, and less successful men feel intimidated by their partner's success. Crappy, I know, but that's what happens.

 

And why would you assume that feeling safe is only what women want? I think it's something that everyone wants actually.

Have you ever been held by your boyfriend and felt safe ? Thats the safety I'm talking about.

 

Of course they can, I know plenty of smart, successful girls who are in a steady relationships or married, they just postpone kids a little bit, not relationships/marriages however I do agree with you that the system is broken and that laws should be improved to help women with pregnancies.

 

Our needs are slightly different when it comes to potential mates.

[Kestra15]

I'd rather have a partner who I was personally, physically and emotionally compatible with. An equal. Finances and the nebulous 'protection' are pretty far out of the picture-I can take care of myself in that regard.

Nothing nebulous about food on the table and a roof over your head.

 

Ylang, where are you from?

[Rosedamai]

Have you ever been held by your boyfriend and felt safe ? Thats the safety I'm talking about.

 

Of course they can, I know plenty of smart, successful girls who are in a steady relationships or married, they just postpone kids a little bit, not relationships/marriages however I do agree with you that the system is broken and that laws should be improved to help women with pregnancies.

 

Our needs are slightly different when it comes to potential mates.

Of course I have. And so have my boyfriend. It goes for the both of us. Not just me. You were sort of saying that it's only the women who want this safety thing and I'm arguing that it isn't. It goes for all of us.

 

And I'm referring to my country where things are sadly very patriarchal and very sexist.

 

It's possibly due to the very rapid rate of modernization we've had. We've not had much time to change cultural or social matters- or people's beliefs for that matter- into something that's more in line with modern beliefs.

 

Kestra- do you mind if I tell you via pm? I feel a bit uncomfortable about supposedly "badmouthing" my country. Besides, I'm a bit afraid of being stereotyped, so..

Edited February 7, 2012 by ylangylang

[The Evil Doer]

Like hell!

 

ETA:

I'll elaborate. No, no no no, and nooooo. This makes quite the assumption that every woman really, deep down, whether she knows it or not, just needs a man, and OMG no.

Dont really understand your response, sounds as if you despise men for some reason but that's your thing, with that being said, YES ! Most women need a man or a woman, it doesnt matter which way they're swinging but indeed the answer is yes, that rule applies to most people as we are social beings after all.

[The Evil Doer]

Of course I have. And so have my boyfriend. It goes for the both of us. Not just me.

 

And I'm referring to my country where things are sadly very patriarchal and very sexist.

 

It's possibly due to the very rapid rate of modernization we've had. We've not had much time to change cultural or social matters- or people's beliefs for that matter- into something that's more in line with modern beliefs.

 

Kestra- do you mind if I tell you via pm? I feel a bit uncomfortable about supposedly "badmouthing" my country. Besides, I'm a bit afraid of being stereotyped, so..

I doubt that your boyfriend expects you to be the protector (physically speaking), guys feel different things, not better or worse things, just different.

 

I cant really respond regarding your country, I can only express my hope that it will change for the better, sooner rather than later.

[Princess Artemis]

So you don't want a partner who can provide and protect? Rubbish. Every person, male and female, looks for safety and security. It doesn't mean you have to be the weaker of the pair, but everyone wants to know if it all goes to hell that there is some measure of safety and protection - physically, financially, emotionally.

"Protector and Provider is what women are looking for as in a basic need, girl needs to feel safe with her man, [...] when your boyfriend/husband holds you in his arms you should feel safe, thats the basic need every woman is looking for, psychology 1 on 1, you might be aware of it, it might be on a subconscious level but it is what it is. " no, every woman does not need this. Which is what I was objecting so strenuously to.

 

What many people may want is a far cry from what Every Woman Needs Even If She Doesn't Know It.

 

To answer your question? No, I do not want a partner to provide and protect. If I did, one would think I would have made some effort to find one by now. So take your 'rubbish' elsewhere.

 

Evil Doer, objecting to this stereotype hardly equates to hating men.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[Rosedamai]

I doubt that your boyfriend expects you to be the protector (physically speaking), guys feel different things, not better or worse things, just different.

 

I cant really respond regarding your country, I can only express my hope that it will change for the better, sooner rather than later.

Well, we differ on the first point, and agree on the second point, but at least we did achieve a common understanding of sorts. I guess that's something to be thankful for.

[The Evil Doer]

What does every woman need ? To be alone ? Enlighten us Princess A.

[Princess Artemis]

What does every woman need ? To be alone ? Enlighten us Princess A.

You think I'm going be so presumptuous as to speak for every woman?!

[The Evil Doer]

You think I'm going be so presumptuous as to speak for every woman?!

I dont know you, I dont know what you will be or wont be.

If you dont need that feeling of safety as provided by a man or a woman, what do you reckon you need ? Solitude ? A pet ? Im curious.

From your experience and your environment would you really claim that majority of women feel like you ?

Edited February 7, 2012 by The Evil Doer

[Packgoater]

Evil doer: Yeah, I said that. I also said "And that shouldn't be taken as us saying that we want someone to care for us and be our Protector and Provider." that right after it.

 

You're taking the fact that we want someone just as strong as we are to mean that we want someone to care for us.

 

Also, if my boyfriend said to run, I'd be fine with that. Because I care enough about that person that I wouldn't break up with him for wanting to run away from a crazy guy attacking us. That's our instinct: Fight or Flight.

 

People who know me, though, would say I'd either take on that person myself, or argue with them about how stupid they were being for doing this.

 

So no, I do not need a protector, or a provider. I need someone loyal, who cares about me, and loves and respects me. Who cares about me, not for me.

[Princess Artemis]

Evil Doer, it would likely be a safe assumption that if someone is objecting to you making sweeping generalizations, they will not in turn make sweeping generalizations when asked.

 

Yes, I need solitude more than I need any feeling a partner could provide, which is why I am mostly happy to live the way I do.

 

I absolutely would not make any claim that most people feel the way I do. I wouldn't be surprised if a goodly number did, though, and wouldn't appreciate being told they have a psychological need for a partner.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[Kestra15]

To answer your question? No, I do not want a partner to provide and protect. If I did, one would think I would have made some effort to find one by now. So take your 'rubbish' elsewhere.

Ok :~)

[WereJace]

Nothing nebulous about food on the table and a roof over your head.

I honestly do not see that as falling under 'protection'. That's...subsistence. As an adult I take pride in my ability to provide those things for myself and in my experience, most adults of either gender feel the same. When I read 'protection', I am reading it as The Evil Doer appears to-physically ensuring ones safety-and that's something else I and plenty of other women are comfortable taking care of on our own. I wouldn't want my partner to sacrifice themselves to save me from a mugger or what have you-I want them safe, sound and healthy with me.

[The Evil Doer]

Evil doer: Yeah, I said that. I also said "And that shouldn't be taken as us saying that we want someone to care for us and be our Protector and Provider." that right after it.

 

You're taking the fact that we want someone just as strong as we are to mean that we want someone to care for us.

 

Also, if my boyfriend said to run, I'd be fine with that. Because I care enough about that person that I wouldn't break up with him for wanting to run away from a crazy guy attacking us. That's our instinct: Fight or Flight.

 

People who know me, though, would say I'd either take on that person myself, or argue with them about how stupid they were being for doing this.

 

So no, I do not need a protector, or a provider. I need someone loyal, who cares about me, and loves and respects me. Who cares about me, not for me.

Not to care for you but to provide the feeling of safety, thats why you aim for someone on your level and not below, the fact that you wouldnt mind your boyfriend running away and leaving you behind, well, I doubt many girls would feel the same way about him afterwards as you would...

 

@Princess A. I didn't ask of you to generalize, I asked about what do you see around you as in other women in your environment ?

 

May I ask whether you have pets ?