American Politics

[Fuzzbucket]

Right on.

 

And basically, the issue is that global capitalism does not, and cannot work. Growth for ever cannot work. Read Schumacher who warned of this 40 (?) years ago.

[KageSora]

Y'know, that huge military that people seem to think we in the US need to protect us?

 

Well, this might sound kinda crazy to some Americans but maybe, just maybe...

 

If we stopped acting like the World Police, kept to ourselves, worked to better international relations, and to fix our own country up before trying to fix others (hey, Bible quote time for all the religious military-backers! Matthew 7:5, that one about taking the plank from your own eye before removing the speck from your brother's?)...

 

Well maybe folks would like us a bit more, or at least be more neutral on us.

 

And then, if they don't hate us and see us as a threat (you don't usually attack people if you seem them as insignificant, after all)... Well maybe they won't feel inclined to try and attack us.

 

 

Having a strong military is fine--but we ought to keep it home to protect us if we're attacked rather than striking first. No need to guarantee enemies where none need to have been had, after all.

 

 

And if Obama is improving our appearance to the rest of the world... Well, that's a real good thing that might help lessen the odds of being horribly attacked like people seem to fear.

 

 

While the idea of "don't mind what others think" may be all well and good for boosting the confidence of a person, that same policy just does not work with a country--we NEED other countries to like us. We're not 100% self-sufficient, and we don't want the rest of the world hating us.

 

Having good international relationships is very, very important.

 

And electing a president who will throw away all that Obama has done to make us look better to the world is just...

 

Not a smart move, not at all.

[demonicvampiregirl]

He is, and everything he's put in place - or tried to put in place - is to help your economy. The failing of the American economy and the fact that it is not recovering is not Obama's fault, no more than it is Cameron's, Clegg's or Brown's. There is a global recession which means everywhere is feeling it, and everyone is in the crap. Consider Europe; we currently have three countries that are requiring continental support because their economies have full-on collapsed. Most other countries are falling apart - very few are holding together economically. It doesn't help that a large part of the Middle East and North Africa have, in the last eighteen months, been in a state of civil unrest, civil uprising, civil war, or internal/international wars. Every economy is feeling the strain, not just America.

 

Obama has been given a massive crap-sandwich thanks to the Bush administration. Stuck in two very expensive, very unpopular wars, an economy that was nose-diving, in a country that at the best of times is a social mess. He's managed to do a heck of a lot to turn around not only the mess the USA has been in, but to undo the damage done by Bush Jr and Bush Sr in terms of political and social standing in the world. Americans are still laughed at - just like every nation is for their stereotypes - but your political and social popularity has increased dramatically now you have a guy in charge who actually tries to make your country a better place.

 

It does anger me, however, when so many people seem to assume Obama is personally responsible for the mess that your country is still in. It's because you've had a couple of decades of poor decisions and administrations, alongside global problems, that means that he's been given a tough job. And I tell you what - every non-American out here thinks he's the best guy for the job.

To me the best times was when Clinton was in office. I don't care what he did in his personal life. That to me should not have been made public or even affected his presidency at all. He's human he makes mistakes like the rest.

 

Bush ran this country straight into the ground and even republicans was seeing that towards the end. Now they want to throw another one back in because Obama didn't snap his fingers and magically fix the economy. That isn't how it works. It takes time and work to get it back to where it was.

 

Y'know, that huge military that people seem to think we in the US need to protect us?

 

Well, this might sound kinda crazy to some Americans but maybe, just maybe...

 

If we stopped acting like the World Police, kept to ourselves, worked to better international relations, and to fix our own country up before trying to fix others (hey, Bible quote time for all the religious military-backers! Matthew 7:5, that one about taking the plank from your own eye before removing the speck from your brother's?)...

 

Well maybe folks would like us a bit more, or at least be more neutral on us.

 

And then, if they don't hate us and see us as a threat (you don't usually attack people if you seem them as insignificant, after all)... Well maybe they won't feel inclined to try and attack us.

 

 

Having a strong military is fine--but we ought to keep it home to protect us if we're attacked rather than striking first. No need to guarantee enemies where none need to have been had, after all.

 

 

And if Obama is improving our appearance to the rest of the world... Well, that's a real good thing that might help lessen the odds of being horribly attacked like people seem to fear.

 

 

While the idea of "don't mind what others think" may be all well and good for boosting the confidence of a person, that same policy just does not work with a country--we NEED other countries to like us. We're not 100% self-sufficient, and we don't want the rest of the world hating us.

 

Having good international relationships is very, very important.

 

And electing a president who will throw away all that Obama has done to make us look better to the world is just...

 

Not a smart move, not at all.

 

I fully agree. We need to stop just jumping into other countries and getting involved in their government. We're not going to make every country act like ours and we're idiots to think we can even try to.

 

I actually fear what would happen if someone did attack the US right now. We don't have much to defend our country right now because it's all elsewhere. I know we started to pull troops back from Iraq and all that but still. :/

[KageSora]

Now they want to throw another one back in because Obama didn't snap his fingers and magically fix the economy. That isn't how it works. It takes time and work to get it back to where it was.

This, so much.

 

What people seem to fail to realize is that while it can take a very short time to destroy something, putting it back together again takes infinitely longer--if, that is, it's even possible to rebuild. Replacing what you broke with something better can take just as long if not longer than rebuilding because you have to get rid of whatever remains of the old first, if you can't build off it...

 

Putting another Republican in office is not going to magically fix the economy or anything else. Keeping Obama in office will not magically fix anything. Putting anybody else in will not magically fix anything.

 

That stuff takes time--and that's what I fear too many people don't understand.

[demonicvampiregirl]

This, so much.

 

What people seem to fail to realize is that while it can take a very short time to destroy something, putting it back together again takes infinitely longer--if, that is, it's even possible to rebuild. Replacing what you broke with something better can take just as long if not longer than rebuilding because you have to get rid of whatever remains of the old first, if you can't build off it...

 

Putting another Republican in office is not going to magically fix the economy or anything else. Keeping Obama in office will not magically fix anything. Putting anybody else in will not magically fix anything.

 

That stuff takes time--and that's what I fear too many people don't understand.

Yeah.

 

People need to go with the lesser of two evils pretty much. If you got someone who wants to cut here and their yet not tax where it needs to be that's not someone you want in office. They will just make the situation worse.

[~Kat~]

Ya know, Obama has had 4 years to help this economy, and he has not done much. I agree, when change comes that another president takes over, it is hard, but most other presidents make an impact compaired to Obama. I am praying for relief that the Republians get in. Romney is not who I wanted, but he will be better than Obama.

 

Obama, can try and and make peace with the world, including the terrorists, but that is a joke.

 

Here are a few examples of the people of that country below. My own son has done 2 tours in that country and like he said, they do not value life period. Enjoy the stories below, as I would wipe the terrorists off the face of this earth if I could. They are inhuman as far as I am concerned.

 

Afghanistan Violence: Children Beheaded In Two Separate Incidents

 

KABUL, Aug 31 (Reuters) - An adolescent boy and a young girl have been beheaded in two separate incidents in Afghanistan, local officials and police said on Friday, in the latest brazen attacks that have raised fresh questions about a splintering Taliban.

 

A 12-year-old boy was kidnapped and killed in southern Kandahar province on Wednesday, his severed head placed near his body to send a warning to police, said provincial governor spokesman Jawid Faisal.

 

The brother of the boy, neither of whom were named by officials, was a member of the Afghan Local Police (ALP), a U.S.-trained militia charged with making Afghans in Taliban strongholds, like Kandahar, feel more secure, Faisal said.

 

"It's a Taliban warning to the ALP and to others who support the government," Faisal said of the killing, which happened in Kandahar's Panjwai district.

 

Taliban spokesman Qari Yousuf denied the group was involved.

 

Separately, a 6-year-old girl was beheaded in eastern Kapisa province on Thursday, said provincial police chief Abdul Hamed.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/31/a...26pLid%3D200127

 

U.S Halts Training Of Some Afghanistan Forces In Light Of Green-On-Blue Violence

 

KABUL, Afghanistan — The U.S. military has halted the training of some Afghan forces while it digs deeper into their background following a surge of attacks by soldiers and police on their international partners, officials said Sunday.

 

The United States and its allies are pushing to have Afghan forces take over security for the country by the end of 2014. This effort has been imperiled by the spike in insider attacks that have killed 45 international service members this year, most of them Americans. There were at least 12 such attacks in August alone, resulting in 15 deaths.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/02/a..._n_1850065.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rosedamai]

Obama, can try and and make peace with the world, including the terrorists, but that is a joke.

 

Here are a few examples of the people of that country below. My own son has done 2 tours in that country and like he said, they do not value life period. Enjoy the stories below, as I would wipe the terrorists off the face of this earth if I could. They are inhuman as far as I am concerned.

 

Afghanistan Violence: Children Beheaded In Two Separate Incidents

 

KABUL, Aug 31 (Reuters) - An adolescent boy and a young girl have been beheaded in two separate incidents in Afghanistan, local officials and police said on Friday, in the latest brazen attacks that have raised fresh questions about a splintering Taliban.

 

A 12-year-old boy was kidnapped and killed in southern Kandahar province on Wednesday, his severed head placed near his body to send a warning to police, said provincial governor spokesman Jawid Faisal.

 

The brother of the boy, neither of whom were named by officials, was a member of the Afghan Local Police (ALP), a U.S.-trained militia charged with making Afghans in Taliban strongholds, like Kandahar, feel more secure, Faisal said.

 

"It's a Taliban warning to the ALP and to others who support the government," Faisal said of the killing, which happened in Kandahar's Panjwai district.

 

Taliban spokesman Qari Yousuf denied the group was involved.

 

Separately, a 6-year-old girl was beheaded in eastern Kapisa province on Thursday, said provincial police chief Abdul Hamed.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/31/a...26pLid%3D200127

 

U.S Halts Training Of Some Afghanistan Forces In Light Of Green-On-Blue Violence

 

KABUL, Afghanistan — The U.S. military has halted the training of some Afghan forces while it digs deeper into their background following a surge of attacks by soldiers and police on their international partners, officials said Sunday.

 

The United States and its allies are pushing to have Afghan forces take over security for the country by the end of 2014. This effort has been imperiled by the spike in insider attacks that have killed 45 international service members this year, most of them Americans. There were at least 12 such attacks in August alone, resulting in 15 deaths.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/02/a..._n_1850065.html

So? You remember the shootings at the Sikh temple? Or, look at the abortion doctor shootings in your country. That's just about the same fundamentalist attitude on par with the Taliban if you ask me. Every country has its weirdos.

 

Sorry, but "they don't value life period" from what, 2 years? 2 years makes someone a qualified person to comment on the general life in that country? 2 years during which, your son (I'm sorry to say this but) was a part of a war? Of course he's going to witness brutality. It's a warfield, what do you expect? I don't think the Afghan people are pretty happy with Americans when stuff like this happens.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/19/world/as...?pagewanted=all (WARNING)

 

The photographs, published by The Los Angeles Times on Wednesday, show more than a dozen soldiers of the 82nd Airborne Division’s Fourth Brigade Combat Team, along with some Afghan security forces, posing with the severed hands and legs of Taliban attackers in Zabul Province in 2010. They seemed likely to further bruise an American-Afghan relationship that has been battered by crisis after crisis over the past year, even as the two governments are in the midst of negotiations over a long-term strategic agreement.

 

The images also add to a troubling list of cases — including Marines videotaped urinating on Taliban bodies, the burning of Korans, and the massacre of villagers attributed to a lone Army sergeant — that have cast American soldiers in the harshest possible light before the Afghan public. Accordingly, combat veterans and military analysts are beginning to look inside the catchall phrase “stress on the force” to identify factors that could be contributing to the breaches.

 

BTW, "Marines videotaped urinating on Taliban bodies"-link here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/world/as...an-corpses.html (WARNING)

 

Burning of Korans-link here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/27/world/as...fghanistan.html

 

Massacre of villagers-link here:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/world/asia/afghanistan-civilians-killed-american-soldier-held.html (WARNING)

 

Besides, terrorists=/=normal everyday civilians living in said country.

[~Kat~]

ylangylang, do you know how long the terrorists have been around!!! These people have not changed.

[Rosedamai]

ylangylang, do you know how long the terrorists have been around!!! These people have not changed.

Uh, actually you guys supported the Taliban and most of what became the Al Qaeda when they were fighting against the Soviet Russians, so actually... you guys helped build them.

 

http://rense.com/general14/rise.htm

 

Also here: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Afghanis...IA_Taliban.html

 

Three weeks after Soviet tanks rolled into Kabul, Carter's secretary of defense, Harold Brown, was in Beijing arranging for a weapons transfer from the Chinese to the ClA-backed Afghani troops mustered in Pakistan. The Chinese, who were generously compensated for the deal, agreed and even consented to send military advisers. Brown worked out a similar arrangement with Egypt to buy $15 million worth of weapons. "The U.S. contacted me," [then-Egyptian president] Anwar Sadat recalled shortly before his assassination [in 1981]. "They told me, 'Please open your stores for us so that we can give the Afghans the armaments they need to fight.' And I gave them the armaments. The transport of arms to the Afghans started from Cairo on U.S. planes."

 

By February 1980, the Washington Post reported that the mujahideen was receiving arms coming from the U.S. government.

 

Also here: http://www.mediamonitors.net/mosaddeq2.html

 

By 1991-92, the US and the USSR finally reached an agreement that neither would continue to supply aid to any faction in Afghanistan. However, the numerous militant factions previously funded and armed by the US have been vying for supremacy. One of the armed Afghan factions funded by the CIA during this war was the Taliban, an apparently Islamic movement. With the departure of Soviet troops in 1989, these factions began vying with one another for supremacy, the Taliban eventually arising as the dominant force in Afghanistan. As a coherent politico-military faction or movement, the Taliban did not exist prior to October 1994, but were members of other factions such as Harakat-e Islami and Mohammad Nabi Mohammadi, or operated independently without a centralised command centre.

 

The ultimate result has been that post-Cold War Afghanistan has remained in a state of anarchical civil war up to this day, with the Taliban having emerged as the most powerful faction in the country by the mid-1990s. One can therefore conclude that as a result of a string of proxy wars, that were the result of manipulation by both the US and the former USSR, Afghanistan has been plunged into a state of perpetual humanitarian catastrophe.

 

I could add a snarky remark here about the massacre of the Native Americans and so on, but I guess not.

Edited September 3, 2012 by ylangylang

[LascielsShadow]

Ya know, Obama has had 4 years to help this economy, and he has not done much. I agree, when change comes that another president takes over, it is hard, but most other presidents make an impact compaired to Obama. I am praying for relief that the Republians get in. Romney is not who I wanted, but he will be better than Obama.

 

You do realise that it's a bit difficult for a president to get things done when he has to deal with a congress that is actively working against him, yes? There's been a republican filibuster going on pretty much since Pres. Obama took office.

 

 

Do you even realise what exactly is in the Republican platform? What you're alleging will be "better"? A ban on abortions. A constitutional amendment that says life begins at conception (affording zygotes all the rights and protections already given to actual born people), which could effectively outlaw certain forms of birth control. A ban on gay marriage. Turning Medicare into a voucher system and taking away billions from recipients. Repealing the ACA (an action which would literally kill people). Tax cuts for the rich at the expense of the middle class. Cuts in funding to programs that quite literally help keep people alive (food stamps, welfare, etc.). Reforming the FDA (which will really benefit nobody but Big Pharma-it certainly won't do much for the people of this country). Less regulation on corporations. Reining in the EPA (because apparently, regulations that hinder companies' bottom lines are bad, and pollution is totally not a problem). Slashing the federal workforce. A move to keep women off the front lines in the military.

 

 

Yeah, that's exactly the kind of administration I want to see. Screw the little guy, long live the corporations.

Edited September 3, 2012 by LascielsShadow

[Rosedamai]

Yeah, that's exactly the kind of administration I want to see. Screw the little guy, long live the corporations.

But corporations are people too! D:

[LascielsShadow]

But corporations are people too! D:

Does this mean we can demand to see their birth certificates and college transcripts?

 

[demonicvampiregirl]

Ya know, Obama has had 4 years to help this economy, and he has not done much. I agree, when change comes that another president takes over, it is hard, but most other presidents make an impact compaired to Obama. I am praying for relief that the Republians get in. Romney is not who I wanted, but he will be better than Obama.

 

Obama, can try and and make peace with the world, including the terrorists, but that is a joke.

 

Here are a few examples of the people of that country below. My own son  has done 2 tours in that country and like he said, they do not value life period. Enjoy the stories below, as I would wipe the terrorists off the face of this earth if I could. They are inhuman as far as I am concerned.

 

Afghanistan Violence: Children Beheaded In Two Separate Incidents

 

KABUL, Aug 31 (Reuters) - An adolescent boy and a young girl have been beheaded in two separate incidents in Afghanistan, local officials and police said on Friday, in the latest brazen attacks that have raised fresh questions about a splintering Taliban.

 

A 12-year-old boy was kidnapped and killed in southern Kandahar province on Wednesday, his severed head placed near his body to send a warning to police, said provincial governor spokesman Jawid Faisal.

 

The brother of the boy, neither of whom were named by officials, was a member of the Afghan Local Police (ALP), a U.S.-trained militia charged with making Afghans in Taliban strongholds, like Kandahar, feel more secure, Faisal said.

 

"It's a Taliban warning to the ALP and to others who support the government," Faisal said of the killing, which happened in Kandahar's Panjwai district.

 

Taliban spokesman Qari Yousuf denied the group was involved.

 

Separately, a 6-year-old girl was beheaded in eastern Kapisa province on Thursday, said provincial police chief Abdul Hamed.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/31/a...26pLid%3D200127

 

U.S Halts Training Of Some Afghanistan Forces In Light Of Green-On-Blue Violence

 

KABUL, Afghanistan — The U.S. military has halted the training of some Afghan forces while it digs deeper into their background following a surge of attacks by soldiers and police on their international partners, officials said Sunday.

 

The United States and its allies are pushing to have Afghan forces take over security for the country by the end of 2014. This effort has been imperiled by the spike in insider attacks that have killed 45 international service members this year, most of them Americans. There were at least 12 such attacks in August alone, resulting in 15 deaths.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/02/a..._n_1850065.html

Your son was in a war he is going to see things like that. They are speaking out against us for being there it's going to happen. You cannot expect everyone to scream "Yay, Americans!" each time they see one. Not everyone is accepting to foreigners.

 

The best anyone can do is try to reach a form of agreement. It takes time and patience.

 

Not every president is going to make a impact immediately when in office. Look at the mess Bush left for Obama to try to clean up and with the Republicans in power like they are can you actually tell me he's going to get much done if they constantly vote down anything that might benefit others?

 

They turn down Healthcare, they turn down some stupid rule about no gay/lesbians in the military (which is dumb beyond reason anyone should be able to join up to support their country, sexuality should not be a matter), and any form of benefits to other people?

 

You seriously want someone in that would want that? Romney would be doing that. He would be blocking everything that helped the lower and middle classes or benefits anyone who doesn't have enough money to get it anyway. You need to tax the rich. They live here they should be paying just like the ones who work. Romney wont even show his tax returns. If you are hiding those and have off shore bank accounts something is seriously wrong there and I wouldn't want someone who does that as a president.

 

 

.png Does this mean we can demand to see their birth certificates and college transcripts?

 

Omg!

Edited September 3, 2012 by demonicvampiregirl

[inlaterdays]

Here are a few examples of the people of that country below. My own son has done 2 tours in that country and like he said, they do not value life period. Enjoy the stories below, as I would wipe the terrorists off the face of this earth if I could. They are inhuman as far as I am concerned.

 

Do you know how many people look at the out-of-control violence in this country: the school shootings, the shooting at the Batman movie in Colorado, the rash of cannibal incidents this summer, the rampant child sex rings, people who actually murder DOCTORS who are performing legal procedures, and think that Americans and American society does not value life, period?

 

Lots.

 

We live in a glass house. We have no right to throw stones.

 

Not everyone in the Middle East is a terrorist, just like not everyone in America is a crazy person with an assault weapon.

[KageSora]

Also, America has terrorists, too. Domestic terrorists exist, people. It's not all foreigners who will screw us up. I'd say people who bomb clinics where they perform legal procedures simply because it's against their beliefs qualify as terrorists.

 

And look! We don't even need to go to another part of the world to fight them! We can fight terrorists in our own country!

[Rosedamai]

Does this mean we can demand to see their birth certificates and college transcripts?

But apparently not their tax returns!

[demonicvampiregirl]

Also, America has terrorists, too. Domestic terrorists exist, people. It's not all foreigners who will screw us up. I'd say people who bomb clinics where they perform legal procedures simply because it's against their beliefs qualify as terrorists.

 

And look! We don't even need to go to another part of the world to fight them! We can fight terrorists in our own country!

Well said. There are acts of terrorism here in our own country and yet we always look at foreign people for it.

[KageSora]

Well said. There are acts of terrorism here in our own country and yet we always look at foreign people for it.

It must be because those dirty foreign animals have corrupted our pure, wonderful people! /sarcasm

 

 

It's just appalling to see how quick people are to demand we use force against others, when they'd be the first to scream about how it was horrible if another country tried to use force to take care of our terrorists.

[LascielsShadow]

But apparently not their tax returns!

Of course not. That's just getting too personal.

 

 

 

 

[TikindiDragon]

It's just appalling to see how quick people are to demand we use force against others, when they'd be the first to scream about how it was horrible if another country tried to use force to take care of our terrorists.

Actually it's always amused me how much so many Americans will get very upset if you tell them they've been directly supporting terrorism for years. I don't mean on a governmental basis, either. I mean on a personal one.

 

How? All that money that goes to the IRA from fundraising in the US. Buuuut apparently the car bombs are okay because it's a "fight against English oppression". I can imagine the uproar if the UK actually *were* to declare war on the Republic of Ireland in order to get rid of the terrorists, despite the fact that they've been giving us problems for far, far longer than places like Afghanistan has provided any kind of threat to the people of the US.

[Fuzzbucket]

Y'know, that huge military that people seem to think we in the US need to protect us?

 

Well, this might sound kinda crazy to some Americans but maybe, just maybe...

 

If we stopped acting like the World Police, kept to ourselves, worked to better international relations, and to fix our own country up before trying to fix others (hey, Bible quote time for all the religious military-backers! Matthew 7:5, that one about taking the plank from your own eye before removing the speck from your brother's?)...

 

Well maybe folks would like us a bit more, or at least be more neutral on us.

 

And then, if they don't hate us and see us as a threat (you don't usually attack people if you seem them as insignificant, after all)... Well maybe they won't feel inclined to try and attack us.

 

 

Having a strong military is fine--but we ought to keep it home to protect us if we're attacked rather than striking first. No need to guarantee enemies where none need to have been had, after all.

 

 

And if Obama is improving our appearance to the rest of the world... Well, that's a real good thing that might help lessen the odds of being horribly attacked like people seem to fear.

 

 

While the idea of "don't mind what others think" may be all well and good for boosting the confidence of a person, that same policy just does not work with a country--we NEED other countries to like us. We're not 100% self-sufficient, and we don't want the rest of the world hating us.

 

Having good international relationships is very, very important.

 

And electing a president who will throw away all that Obama has done to make us look better to the world is just...

 

Not a smart move, not at all.

Continues to worship at KageSora's feet. You SO get it !

 

And the UK also helped arm the Taliban, and should shut up about them, therefore. (Not that I am pro Taliban - but if you support someone one year and try and bomb them the next, you can't be surprised when people cannot work out just what you stand for... I wouldn't trust the UK OR the US if I lived in Afghanistan, myself.)

 

I think there was more wrong with Clinton than the sex thing, actually - I think his ego was rather too large. But still - he was a good guy on the whole. Bush, on the other hand... and as for the current Republicans - they really are scary awful. The ONLY good thing - for the rest of us - is that Romney looks like going isolationist - so he MIGHT learn to leave other countries alone.

[Kestra15]

Obama, can try and and make peace with the world, including the terrorists, but that is a joke.

 

Here are a few examples of the people of that country below. My own son  has done 2 tours in that country and like he said, they do not value life period. Enjoy the stories below, as I would wipe the terrorists off the face of this earth if I could. They are inhuman as far as I am concerned.

Utter hogwash, and shows how narrow-minded you are.

 

Your two sons have been on tours - great. I'm from a military family. My dad has been on no less than five tours. I'm the first male in my family not to be in the military, so plenty more war stories from the rest of my family. I'm the only person in my cohort from my military school who didn't join the military - and most of them have done a tour or two. My childhood friends have mothers, fathers and more in the military, all of which have been on tour. I have worked at the rehabilitation centre for soldiers injured in the line of duty - and in order to understand their conditions, you have to know their stories, how they were injured and where. So I'm extremely well-educated on the horros of these warzones.

 

And guess what? The horror stories they tell are horrific, but they always show that it's not an entire country of terrorists who devalue life. It's always the actions of a select few; everyone else there are normal people trying to make the best of a crappy situation.

 

If you truly believe that every person in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait and Mexico 'do not value life' and are 'a bunch of terrorists,' then it is not worth trying to educate you any further.

 

And while we're looking at one-off stories showing how life isn't valued in a country:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/am...ts-7962014.html

 

Ah, America doesn't seem to value life. So you should all be wiped out as well, right?

Edited September 3, 2012 by Kestra15

[KageSora]

Continues to worship at KageSora's feet. You SO get it !

It just seems logical to me.

 

I mean, generally speaking, I have no desire to cause harm to people I either like or am neutral towards. People I dislike I'm more inclined to be a little less than helpful if they're in trouble, and people I really don't like I'm quite happy to watch crash and burn--and if I really really don't like a person, I might be so inclined to take advantage of a chance to strike at them if it presents itself. If I see somebody as a threat, I'll be ready to attack them if they strike out at me first.

 

The same seems to hold true for many people. It would follow, then, that nations--as entities created and influenced by people (often many people)--would ultimately behave in a similar way.

 

 

I just don't understand how hard a concept that is for so many Americans to grasp. o_O

 

I mean, you don't need to know a ton about politics, military stuff, international relations, etc. to figure out that less enemies means less people who want to hurt us, and less people who want to hurt us means less chances of being attacked.

 

 

 

And, on top of that, it's not like backing off means we have to disband our military--having a strong military that you keep at home to defend yourself is just fine. It's when you use it to try and, well, rule the world that problems start arising.

 

Yeah, Romney needs to leave the rest of the world alone because screwing over his own country's people will take all his concentration! I'm legitimately worried about what would happen if he won.

 

 

ETA: I suppose it's possible to keep enemies at bay through force. But, power through fear only lasts for so long before it breaks. We should try to dissuade people from attacking us through positive means rather than intimidation--because that often ends up backfiring.

Edited September 3, 2012 by KageSora

[Fuzzbucket]

Utter hogwash, and shows how narrow-minded you are.

 

Your two sons have been on tours - great. I'm from a military family. My dad has been on no less than five tours. I'm the first male in my family not to be in the military, so plenty more war stories from the rest of my family. I'm the only person in my cohort from my military school who didn't join the military - and most of them have done a tour or two. My childhood friends have mothers, fathers and more in the military, all of which have been on tour. So I'm extremely well-educated on the horros of these warzones.

 

And guess what? The horror stories they tell are horrific, but they always show that it's not an entire country of terrorists who devalue life. It's always the actions of a select few; everyone else there are normal people trying to make the best of a crappy situation.

 

If you truly believe that every person in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait and Mexico 'do not value life' and are 'a bunch of terrorists,' then it is not worth trying to educate you any further.

Not to mention the number of US (and UK) soldiers who have been found guilty of the most appalling abuse of innocent civilians while on active duty. And have later tried to argue that they didn't do anything, in the face of disgusting and genuine video footage of them doing it.

 

Soldiers have as many bad apples among their number as the rest of us.

 

But war absolutely sucks. Vile things happen. That's what war is for. If you send people out to kill other people - SURPRISE - people get killed. And deliberate killing (AKA murder, to most sane people) isn't pretty.

 

And most of the current "wars" aren't wars at all, they are a matter of invasion and interference, because WE don't happen to like what THEY do in their own countries. Well, guess what. THEY aren't too wild about the way WE do things either. Not least when we make them have an election they didn't want and then decided to blitz them and apply sanctions because the party "we" intended to win - didn't.

 

"We" in the west are NOT the good guys here.

But Obama is a lot gooder than Romney would be.

[demonicvampiregirl]

Not to mention the number of US (and UK) soldiers who have been found guilty of the most appalling abuse of innocent civilians while on active duty. And have later tried to argue that they didn't do anything, in the face of disgusting and genuine video footage of them doing it.

 

Soldiers have as many bad apples among their number as the rest of us.

 

But war absolutely sucks. Vile things happen. That's what war is for. If you send people out to kill other people - SURPRISE - people get killed. And deliberate killing (AKA murder, to most sane people) isn't pretty.

 

And most of the current "wars" aren't wars at all, they are a matter of invasion and interference, because WE don't happen to like what THEY do in their own countries. Well, guess what. THEY aren't too wild about the way WE do things either. Not least when we make them have an election they didn't want and then decided to blitz them and apply sanctions because the party "we" intended to win - didn't.

 

"We" in the west are NOT the good guys here.

But Obama is a lot gooder than Romney would be.

I think this quote from the T.V. show M*A*S*H sums this up pretty nicely:

 

Frank: Well, everybody knows war is hell.

 

BJ: Remember, you heard it here last.

 

Hawkeye: War isn’t hell. War is war and hell is hell, and of the two war is a lot worse.

 

Father Mulcahy: How do you figure that, Hawkeye?

 

Hawkeye: Simple, father. Tell me, who goes to hell?

 

Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe.

 

Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in hell. But war is chock full of them. Little kids, cripples, old ladies, in fact, except for a few of the brass almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.

 

The people in the military over seas have the ability to do things just like the ones they are at war with. It's not just the terrorists you have to worry about as well it's your own people.