Wolves

[Coorinna]

Wolves used to be my favourite animal when I was younger. I used to watch Balto all the time, read stuff like White Fang and draw 'em constantly.

 

My interest dwindled, well, when I found the Internet. Not only because of the same old 'everybody else likes them, they're all over deviantArt' hipstery thing, but because I had a way of learning about other species, and how different plants and animals are just as important in their own ecosystems.

 

I think my interest in actual zoology killed wolves for me, really.

 

That said, I actually really like Ethiopian wolves (they're not the same species as the wolves we're talking about, but hey). If any species of canine needs support in the wild, it's them. They're really struggling in the wild due to domestic dogs passing all manner of nasty diseases to them. I think they're down to less than 500 animals, compared to the grey wolf which is classified as Least Concern.

 

About the whole 'misunderstood' thing... seriously, they're not. There's a big separation between a fairy tale where a wolf is a baddie and a farmer that has to protect is very livelihood so he can survive. Plus, there's a bunch of cultures and other fairy tales where wolves are viewed as a good force. The Firebird, for example.

 

Anyway, you only have to take one look at the stigma animals like sharks recieve and see that wolves are having a great time. Every time I see a report in a newspaper about sharks, it's some sensationalist article, detailing on how there's alien man-eaters swimming around the coast, even though usually they're just small, harmless species. Another example are hyaenas, particularly the spotted. They're generally viewed as dirty, ugly animals in Western society (thanks, Disney!) and in their native land, they're seen as the familiars of witches. Although they do hunt, as scavengers they perform a very important job on the savannah. They are also very intelligent, more so than wolves, dogs or any other carnivore.

 

So yeah. I didn't mean to write that much, but my two cents.

 

[Syaoransbear]

Wolves used to be my favourite animal when I was younger. I used to watch Balto all the time, read stuff like White Fang and draw 'em constantly.

 

My interest dwindled, well, when I found the Internet. Not only because of the same old 'everybody else likes them, they're all over deviantArt' hipstery thing, but because I had a way of learning about other species, and how different plants and animals are just as important in their own ecosystems.

 

I think my interest in actual zoology killed wolves for me, really.

 

That said, I actually really like Ethiopian wolves (they're not the same species as the wolves we're talking about, but hey). If any species of canine needs support in the wild, it's them. They're really struggling in the wild due to domestic dogs passing all manner of nasty diseases to them. I think they're down to less than 500 animals, compared to the grey wolf which is classified as Least Concern.

 

About the whole 'misunderstood' thing... seriously, they're not. There's a big separation between a fairy tale where a wolf is a baddie and a farmer that has to protect is very livelihood so he can survive. Plus, there's a bunch of cultures and other fairy tales where wolves are viewed as a good force. The Firebird, for example.

 

Anyway, you only have to take one look at the stigma animals like sharks recieve and see that wolves are having a great time. Every time I see a report in a newspaper about sharks, it's some sensationalist article, detailing on how there's alien man-eaters swimming around the coast, even though usually they're just small, harmless species. Another example are hyaenas, particularly the spotted. They're generally viewed as dirty, ugly animals in Western society (thanks, Disney!) and in their native land, they're seen as the familiars of witches. Although they do hunt, as scavengers they perform a very important job on the savannah. They are also very intelligent, more so than wolves, dogs or any other carnivore.

 

So yeah. I didn't mean to write that much, but my two cents.

I think they are still misunderstood, considering most people think an encounter with wolves is going to be played out like this:

 

When really wolf packs have been known to even abandon their kills if they see a human. Their lethality to humans is extremely misunderstood and exaggerated.

 

Most people have no idea what a wolf even LOOKS like. If I see one more post on the dog forum I go to about how someone has a wolf mix or they suspect they have a wolf mix and it ends up being a purebred german shepherd, I'm going to scream. What's worse is when someone is asking what kind of mix their dog is and OTHER PEOPLE are claiming it's a wolf mix when it's an out of standard husky. I fully believe that at least 90% of the population of the world doesn't actually know what a wolf is.

[Coorinna]

There was a site I visited a while ago which dealt in breeding and selling supposed wolf pups. It was really...odd. To say the least.

 

When you manage to dig through all the spelling errors and stuff that makes my inner naturalist convulse in horror (did you know wolves live for over 25 years, can jump more than six feet into the air and are descended from the lion?) the site claims that it is selling Mexican greys as well as a bunch of other subspecies. Mexican greys are critically endangered in the wild, and yet they seem to be selling pures for a few thousand dollars.

At one point it says they're 98% wolf (I assume that means they're part dog?) but everywhere else it says they're true wolves. I'm confused.

 

It's not only the fact that the site blatantly lies about stuff, it's the fact that they're advertising that their potentially dangerous wild animals can be sold to the elderly, people with young children, truckers, the blind and everybody else under the sun because their wolves are completely calm and gentle. Because they're raised on puppy kibble, naturally.

 

I don't mean to sound mean about them, I'm more bewildered than anything else. Anyway, the site is here. I hope it's okay to link it.

 

You seem to know your stuff, Syaoransbear. What do you think?

[Syaoransbear]

There was a site I visited a while ago which dealt in breeding and selling supposed wolf pups. It was really...odd. To say the least.

 

When you manage to dig through all the spelling errors and stuff that makes my inner naturalist convulse in horror (did you know wolves live for over 25 years, can jump more than six feet into the air and are descended from the lion?) the site claims that it is selling Mexican greys as well as a bunch of other subspecies. Mexican greys are critically endangered in the wild, and yet they seem to be selling pures for a few thousand dollars.

At one point it says they're 98% wolf (I assume that means they're part dog?) but everywhere else it says they're true wolves. I'm confused.

 

It's not only the fact that the site blatantly lies about stuff, it's the fact that they're advertising that their potentially dangerous wild animals can be sold to the elderly, people with young children, truckers, the blind and everybody else under the sun because their wolves are completely calm and gentle. Because they're raised on puppy kibble, naturally.

 

I don't mean to sound mean about them, I'm more bewildered than anything else. Anyway, the site is here. I hope it's okay to link it.

 

You seem to know your stuff, Syaoransbear. What do you think?

That breeder is one of the most well known misrepresenters in the wolf dog world. I believe them when they advertise that their animals can be sold to the elderly, children, etc... because they are 100% dogs.

 

It's bad enough that they misrepresent their dogs as wolfdogs and even pure wolves, but they are a puppy mill and their animals live in poor conditions. I believe there have been attempts to have them shut down that have unfortunately resulted in failure. The wolfdog community actually thinks this breeder is seriously mentally ill and unbelievably ignorant about wolves and wolfdogs. They honestly think wolves are cats.

 

Good breeders are people like Mace Loftus.

 

If you just look at his animals versus the ones at wolf haven spirit of the past, you can see the obvious wolf content. Mace has great animals, has amazing habitats for his animals, and has been working very hard over the years to selectively breed his wolfdogs to create ones with more amiable temperaments suitable for ambassador work, photography modeling, and even acting in movies.

 

A girl I know who runs a wolfdog sanctuary bought one of his pups for ambassador work. I met him when he was an adult, he is really sweet and submissive, but he lost the genetic lottery and ended up with a fairly timid tempermanet even though he was very well socialized. But I think living out in the boonies makes it extremely hard to properly socialize any animal, so I don't know if the amount of socializing she did would be my idea of a large amount.

[Shadlok]

To be fair, a lot of wolfdogs are nervy and jumpy, but we had some come in to the rescue centre that is ran by a family member, and because I hand raised them, they were very social with me and with each other, but some things are inbred and they could never be trusted with anyone really but me, which means that they act as the centre dogs. They're becoming more social though, learning from the other dogs, but they're very slow to trust.

 

I absolutely dote on wolves, and I've had experience with some, (again, through the rescue centre). I've had people ask me if my Siberian huskies, Cyndra and Koda, are part wolf though. So huskies and Malamutes can be good if you're looking for a companion wolf-lookalike also. c:

[igloo9201]

Also look up Tamaskan Dogs.

 

Wolves should never be killed, unless humans are being directly threatened (which, in the wild, is almost non-existant).

 

They are far too important to the ecosystem.

[Pokemonfan13]

Absolutely. Deer are massively overpopulated in the US because of the lack of wolves. That is the only reason I support deer hunting; it is replacing the predators we killed off.

[igloo9201]

There are lots of things that happen in the absence of wolves:

 

Overpopulation of dangerous scavengers like coyotes, which are actually more likely to attack a human than any healthy wolf pack.

 

Overpopulation of prey that cause car wrecks and eat too much of the provider at the bottom of the food chain.

 

And, despite what someone said earlier, thy do help keep herds healthy.

 

Hehehe I'm working on an entire document thingy on this. I'd love to post it on here when I'm done.

[Rosedamai]

Or, in countries that aren't as wide, and thus doesn't have the ability to support wolves along with humans, nothing really changes when they're wiped out.

 

*shrug*

[igloo9201]

Or, in countries that aren't as wide, and thus doesn't have the ability to support wolves along with humans, nothing really changes when they're wiped out.

 

*shrug*

For example?? I was talking about North America, where the ecosystem heavily depends on the Gray Wolf.

[Rosedamai]

For example?? I was talking about North America, where the ecosystem heavily depends on the Gray Wolf.

Japan, Korea.

[igloo9201]

Okaaaay. Once again, talking about NA Gray Wolves. And it doesn't seem like it would be too big of a population there, so they would've been wiped out years ago, which renders your point irrelevant.

[senyi]

I'm not a fan of wolves. Never struck me as a "ermahgerd I must worship!" kind of thing. However, they are quite majestic, though.

[igloo9201]

I'm not a fan of wolves. Never struck me as a "ermahgerd I must worship!" kind of thing. However, they are quite majestic, though.

Lol, understandable. Hahaha I'm a full blown wolf lover (obviously)!

[octopi]

I used to think wolves were pretty cool as far as animals went, but then I discovered arthropods and everything in the ocean. I dunno I have weird tastes in animals I guess.

 

I think a lot of the overrated thing comes from the fact that people don't want to be associated with something that's "too" popular? Wolves have some pretty obnoxious fans and there's always the possibility that if you express an interest in them online then you'll be bombarded with messages about how HEY YOU LIKE WOLVES TOO LET'S TALK TOGETHER FOR FIVE HOURS ABOUT HOW ~*GREAT*~ THEY ARE. I know that's pretty stupid and you can always just ignore those people if it really comes to that, but I dunno I feel that way about a lot of popular stuff especially when I'm just kind of interested but don't feel that it's the best thing in the world unlike a lot of people I see online.

[Rosedamai]

Okaaaay. Once again, talking about NA Gray Wolves. And it doesn't seem like it would be too big of a population there, so they would've been wiped out years ago, which renders your point irrelevant.

It just makes your argument moot, because again, you keep seeing things from an NA centric view. Also, the last Honshu wolf died in 1905, and we're not sure about wolves in Korea because we can't conduct a geological survey of NK, but in SK the last wolf died in 1996, so no, it isn't "long time ago".

[igloo9201]

Well, organization's like defenders can't help Korea. And that is quite a while ago, and all we can do is refrain from reintroducing wolves to those areas, so we shouldn't focus our conservation efforts on an area that a. Has no wolves and b. Can't support wolves. We should focus our conservation efforts on where we can actually help. We must make sure that wolves aren't destroyed again.

[Rosedamai]

Well, organization's like defenders can't help Korea. And that is quite a while ago, and all we can do is refrain from reintroducing wolves to those areas, so we shouldn't focus our conservation efforts on an area that a. Has no wolves and b. Can't support wolves. We should focus our conservation efforts on where we can actually help. We must make sure that wolves aren't destroyed again.

From an ecological standpoint, no, 20 years aren't a long time ago. And here's the big thing-some places do fine without wolves. I think that's what I keep trying to say, and you keep missing, because ecological systems can and do adapt to change. Many of the parks that are in the U.S, such as the Golden Gate park and the Panhandle are both very big city parks that used to be areas where there were wolves. They don't need to have wolves back again, because simply put, the systems there can do fine without them.

[senyi]

Whoa...the G.G park used to have wolves?!

/mindblown.

 

I used to kinda sorta like wolves when I was younger, but then I discovered dA. There's a lot of human/animal turned wolves over there, and it got pretty old.

[igloo9201]

But, as a whole, the US does need wolves. I'm not talking about cities, where wolves would turn into coyotes and attack people. I mean places like Alaska and Yellowstone, where wolves are 100℅ needed.

 

And, instead of arguing, you could simply ask questions. If you did so, I could answer them calmly. I'm being a bit vicious right now.

[igloo9201]

Whoa...the G.G park used to have wolves?!

/mindblown.

 

I used to kinda sorta like wolves when I was younger, but then I discovered dA. There's a lot of human/animal turned wolves over there, and it got pretty old.

Everywhere in the US had wolves.

 

And I love anime wolves, but for some people it is a little much. The fandom irritates the heck out of me with all the !wolves are cute, fluffy animals that make great pets!! Wolves make terrible pets if you aren't educated!

[Rosedamai]

But, as a whole, the US does need wolves. I'm not talking about cities, where wolves would turn into coyotes and attack people. I mean places like Alaska and Yellowstone, where wolves are 100℅ needed.

 

And, instead of arguing, you could simply ask questions. If you did so, I could answer them calmly. I'm being a bit vicious right now.

My point is, you keep making blanket statements which don't apply to every places that has, or have had, wolves, and which frankly is galling, because it comes off as "oh the wolves in the U.S are the most important" because frankly it's not.

 

Take, for example, your first sentence that was irritating-

Wolves should never be killed, unless humans are being directly threatened (which, in the wild, is almost non-existant).

I could list links after links of wolf attacks on humans that happen in Siberia. Sorry that I think people are more important than wolves.

 

And lol, I just mentioned a counterargument and you get "vicious"? What you could have just said is "oh right, yeah, the world isn't the U.S, sorry!"

Edited September 9, 2013 by ylangylang

[igloo9201]

*facepalms* That was a nice way of me saying that I'm so irritated that I wanna throw myself off a cliff.

 

Alright. The US isn't the entire world. So, that being said, when I said before statement I had the US in mind.

[Obscure_Trash]

The difficult thing about wolves is that they are a threat to livestock and therefore to those who keep livestock and their finances. Hard to make a living if your product keeps getting killed. Moving them is difficult because they'll either move right back to the livestock or die if the environment is too much of a change for them (just different living situation, which they don't seem to be able to handle). It's an unfortunate situation which there doesn't seem to be a great solution to so far.

[Nectaris]

And lol, I just mentioned a counterargument and you get "vicious"? What you could have just said is "oh right, yeah, the world isn't the U.S, sorry!"

I do think you are getting a little hung up on the US thing. They clarified that they are talking primarily about US wolves and you are still taking it out on them.

 

The difficult thing about wolves is that they are a threat to livestock and therefore to those who keep livestock and their finances. Hard to make a living if your product keeps getting killed. Moving them is difficult because they'll either move right back to the livestock or die if the environment is too much of a change for them (just different living situation, which they don't seem to be able to handle). It's an unfortunate situation which there doesn't seem to be a great solution to so far.

 

The problem is is that farmers and ranchers often over-exaggerate the problem and will kill anything that even MIGHT harm their livestock. For example, I know a lot of farmers that will kill any predator on sight, never mind that they are not even raising livestock and it couldn't possible pose any threat to them or their livelyhood.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Nectaris