Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[Momo]

Another example: electroshock therapy. They'd be strapped to a chair and literally electrocuted until they stopped showing signs of attraction to the same sex. And they had to be immobilized in their chairs because:

 

1) they'd try to escape what is obviously torture, and

2) the shocks were so powerful that, if they weren't strapped down, their muscles would contract to the point of breaking their bones.

 

When they were released, most of them just went back into the closet.

Yeah, that just legitimately makes me feel depressed. x.x The history of the reactions and actions taken against things like this are gruesome, and it makes me even more determined to help put an end to it today, because it still exists, just in a more modernized standard of doing things.

 

You are blowing what I said way out of proportion. I have not 'fallen victim' to anything, and I said that I don't even like seeing strait people making out in public. Meaning things like that belong in a private place thank you very much.

I also have gay friends, so I can deal.

And I don't have to accept a concept if I don't want to.

And I never said they needed to be slaughtered or they should die for being gay. As I said earlier, we are all human.

 

Well.. now you're kind of contradicting yourself, here. Unless it's just me, but.. You were the one who said it was "in your face now" and you were a little shocked, etc. So naturally we'd assume that still goes about an hour later. o.o When you say that you "Aren't used to seeing something," we're going to assume that you likely know very little about the subject to be conversing about it seriously on a level with people who either actually read a ton about the cultural issues, or people who experience it/have grown up in a large place where it has almost always been a constant. You said you don't have to accept a concept if you don't want to, and you don't, but didn't you just say a while back that it was fine with you as long as they didn't force anything on you? Allowing them to be able to hold hands and be married/safe and equal is not effecting you. At least, I HOPE not, because if it is, I think we have a serious problem.

You can't really stay with the claim "we are all human" if you aren't agreeing that we should therefore all be seen equal and have equal opportunity.

[sparkle10184]

Saying 'This will never be solved let's just forget it' is not the way to go about doing things. That's what people thought about black's rights a long time ago and when we finally decided to actually tried, guess what? We made progress. Things take time, you have to be patient and determined.

[MoonTiger]

Okay. ya...

What I mean is when I moved last year it was a bit of a blow. Now I'm a bit used to it, but the politics of it are getting messy. I'm not trying to contradict myself. I just have a rough time keeping coherent with three different people interpreting what I'm saying three different ways and then trying to respond... Yea...

[Lythiaren]

You are blowing what I said way out of proportion. I have not 'fallen victim' to anything, and I said that I don't even like seeing strait people making out in public. Meaning things like that belong in a private place thank you very much.

I also have gay friends, so I can deal.

And I don't have to accept a concept if I don't want to.

And I never said they needed to be slaughtered or they should die for being gay. As I said earlier, we are all human.

Having gay friends doesn't mean you understand their plight. The fact that you don't want to accept the concept of homosexuality is a sign of that. Homosexuality is a part of those people. That you don't want to accept that part of them is really, really unfortunate.

 

You're really misunderstanding what we're saying. The fact that you don't want to see them "shove it in your face" is alarming. What constitutes shoving it in your face?

 

 

Because for some very disturbed individuals, holding hands is "shoving it in their face". A rainbow pin is "shoving it in their face". Some of those individuals are extremely dangerous.

 

You asked us why it was so important. We're telling you why.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Lythiaren

[MoonTiger]

As much as I enjoy debate, at this point I will remove myself from this convo and ask that you guys allow me to do so.

Edited September 8, 2013 by LoveOfTheMoonChild

[Momo]

I could go on if I were given an uninterrupted chance, but at this point, I will remove myself from this convo and ask that you guys allow me to do so.

I don't see how we can interrupt a post, to be honest with you. o.O

But, otherwise, of course! You're free to remove yourself from a conversation if you feel like you're not getting anywhere or that it's time to retire your point. :3 Such is the way of discussion~

[sparkle10184]

I have never been able to understand how human rights are a question. If a man and a woman can get married, so should same sex couples. It just makes absolutely no sense to me how people can question basic rights to happiness.... *mind blown*

[igloo9201]

I would never persocute gay people in any way, as at least some can't help it. But being in a gay/lesbian relationship is wrong. I'm Lutheran, and gay/lesbian relationships are against my religion as it says in the Bible that it's a sin. It also seems wrong to me.

[7Deadly$ins]

I would never persocute gay people in any way, as at least some can't help it. But being in a gay/lesbian relationship is wrong. I'm Lutheran, and gay/lesbian relationships are against my religion as it says in the Bible that it's a sin. It also seems wrong to me.

Why?

[sparkle10184]

But why should YOUR bible rule OTHER people's lives?

[Momo]

I would never persocute gay people in any way, as at least some can't help it. But being in a gay/lesbian relationship is wrong. I'm Lutheran, and gay/lesbian relationships are against my religion as it says in the Bible that it's a sin. It also seems wrong to me.

Christianity also states it is wrong. I'm Christian, and I was taught excessively that it is wrong.

I don't think it's wrong. It's natural to let religion shape what you believe, but I don't let it force me to see something as diverse as the world in one way.

[7Deadly$ins]

Christianity also states it is wrong. I'm Christian, and I was taught excessively that it is wrong.

I don't think it's wrong. It's natural to let religion shape what you believe, but I don't let it force me to see something as diverse as the world in one way.

Lutheran is a Christian denomination.

[igloo9201]

But why should YOUR bible rule OTHER people's lives?

.............because I believe that God created everything and that makes His Word pretty darn important.

 

And idk it just seems so....unnatural.

[Zovesta]

But it crops up very frequently in plenty of animals. Not exactly unnatural... and bisexuality was the norm in several cultures before Christianity took over everywhere.

[Obscure_Trash]

I would never persocute gay people in any way, as at least some can't help it. But being in a gay/lesbian relationship is wrong. I'm Lutheran, and gay/lesbian relationships are against my religion as it says in the Bible that it's a sin. It also seems wrong to me.

That's a huge contradiction.

 

And idk it just seems so....unnatural.

 

You not understanding something doesn't make it wrong, gross, icky, or lesser. :3

[7Deadly$ins]

.............because I believe that God created everything and that makes His Word pretty darn important.

 

And idk it just seems so....unnatural.

And other people believe in other things. I understand that this is important TO YOU, but to other people this has no worth at all. I don't believe the Bible is real, so when that is the only grounds for your reasoning it seems very flimsy to me. To me, this is about on par with "idk, a unicorn told me so." I don't mind when people follow these arguments up with legitimate reasoning, but just saying "This book says so, so that's that." is not enough.

 

And as mentioned, hundreds of animal species have documented homosexuality.

[Herk]

I would never persocute gay people in any way, as at least some can't help it. But being in a gay/lesbian relationship is wrong. I'm Lutheran, and gay/lesbian relationships are against my religion as it says in the Bible that it's a sin. It also seems wrong to me.

You do realize that Luther was one of the people causing a chism over how to read the bible? For example Lutherians don't believe in the whole virgin birth concept, that's somewhere in the bible (admittedly it's probably a translation error, but that didn't stop Catholics). Actally Martin Luther was a pretty forward modern thinker, challenging the religious elite over "true faith" and which rules made sense and which didn't (see his marriage to a nun). Even as a Catholic I agree that many of his ideas made more sense than that o my own faith. I highly doubt that he would be among the people who would damn homosexuality if he were born today - because morals and especially how much you can say is very much dictated by the time you live in. And Luther was one of the people turning away from a lot of that old testament shenanigans of the vengeful god and concentraded of Jesus as the "merciful god".

 

Actually the only place in the new testament where homosexuality is talked about is not by Jesus but Paulus and he sees homosexuality as an effect not a cause of god's wrath (in the most negative part) and otherwise critisizes it, in his letter to the Romans, mostly because in that case it was equivalent to the sexulal relations between owner/slave (where homosexual relationships mostly happened) - which has a whole lot of other (real) problems.

I won't take the old testament as valid arguments, because that also tells us to kill the wife, children and animals of a man who picked up bread on a Sabbath and condones slavery, so no moral standpoint there.

 

If it seems wrong to you - OK, no one can take your emotions/standpoint from you, but the "sin" part is really not valid.

[igloo9201]

And lots of people do.........eh......awkward things with animals (also in the Bible). Is this okay? Did

you know that aids is actually from monkeys? Yes, yes, "it's different because it's people with people, regardless of gender" but....it seems equally wrong to me.

 

And we should base our behaviours on those of animals? Many animals eat their own young. Should we? Although, we're not much better. Abortion and all.

[7Deadly$ins]

And lots of people do.........eh......awkward things with animals (also in the Bible). Is this okay? Did

you know that aids is actually from monkeys? Yes, yes, "it's different because it's people with people, regardless of gender" but....it seems equally wrong to me.

 

And we should base our behaviours on those of animals? Many animals eat their own young. Should we? Although, we're not much better. Abortion and all.

People having sex with animals and animals having sex with animals is a little different, don't you think?

 

What does the origins of AIDS have to do with anything? Neither of these points that you've brought up make much sense at all.

 

People are not saying to base our behavior off that of animals, but simply that it is natural. You can't really call it unnatural when it exists in the natural world. It is not a human invention.

[igloo9201]

That's a huge contradiction.

 

 

 

You not understanding something doesn't make it wrong, gross, icky, or lesser. :3

What I mean by this, is if one of my friends confessed that they're gay, I wouldn't scream "sick mother ** get away from me!!!" But I still wouldn't be like "awesom! I'm so haply for ya! Just be yourself, buddy!"

[Zovesta]

... =P Are you seriously comparing sexual relations between two consenting adults to having sex with an animal that is unable to consent?

 

also lol i'm so glad you wouldn't be supportive towards your friend who obviously doesn't face enough discrimination as it is. i'm sure they definitely need someone looking down on them for not faking heterosexuality.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Zovesta

[teenyVictini]

.............because I believe that God created everything and that makes His Word pretty darn important.

Then why did he make gay/lesbian/bi people if he was just going to call them sinful? seems like a pretty large logical leap there.

 

And lots of people do.........eh......awkward things with animals (also in the Bible). Is this okay? Did

you know that aids is actually from monkeys? Yes, yes, "it's different because it's people with people, regardless of gender" but....it seems equally wrong to me.

 

Relations between two consenting adults will never be equivalent to an adult having a nonconsensual relationship with an animal, as animals cannot give consent. It's kind of disgusting to even try making the two equivalent.

[igloo9201]

People having sex with animals and animals having sex with animals is a little different, don't you think?

 

What does the origins of AIDS have to do with anything? Neither of these points that you've brought up make much sense at all.

 

People are not saying to base our behavior off that of animals, but simply that it is natural. You can't really call it unnatural when it exists in the natural world. It is not a human invention.

Well, since aids is a sexually transmitted disease and it comes from monkeys, I thought that you might perhaps put two and two together.

 

And a point that you brought up was that animals do it. Animals also eat their own young. So if human mothers started eating babies, it would be natural since animals do it, right? ^-^

[Obscure_Trash]

What I mean by this, is if one of my friends confessed that they're gay, I wouldn't scream "sick mother ** get away from me!!!" But I still wouldn't be like "awesom! I'm so haply for ya! Just be yourself, buddy!"

But you wouldn't be so 'understanding' if they were in a relationship, as you said. It hurts to be "friends" with someone who compares you to non-sentient animals or thinks you don't deserve love.

[Zovesta]

Some animals eat their own young. Not all of them have that instinct. But, yeah, let's just say that it is natural. If my argument was that it was unnatural, as yours was with homosexuality, then I'd be proven wrong.

 

That much aside, eating your young obviously hurts someone. Homosexuality doesn't. Does the idea of a same sex couple literally burn your flesh or something, dude?