Abortion

[7Deadly$ins]

But don't babies technically have the physical ability to survive before they reach the 9 month period? Premature babies survive all the time, so what is it about an 8 month old baby born premature that distinguishes it from an 8 month old baby still n the womb?

 

Both have the potential to survive outside their mother's body, but only one was put into a circumstance in which it had to utilize that potential.

Most people don't support such late-term abortions, so arguing this is sort of a moot point.

[St. Jimmy]

And I am one of the few who does support them.

 

I believe abortion should be available to a woman at any time during the pregnancy, no matter the situation. I realize most abortions done that late were wanted babies, and done so because of health risks. Even for the rare few that aren't, that shouldn't be a problem, because you just don't know what the woman's reason for aborting is. Could be a severe birth defect, or she didn't know abortion was an option for her (or was kept away from it by an abusive partner/parents), or she just waited too long. Does it really matter why, if it all ends in the same result?

 

But don't babies technically have the physical ability to survive before they reach the 9 month period? Premature babies survive all the time, so what is it about an 8 month old baby born premature that distinguishes it from an 8 month old baby still n the womb?

They may have the ability to survive, but my point was, they're not yet. As long as it's still inside and feeding off of the woman's body, the woman gets to decide what happens to it.

[7Deadly$ins]

Late term abortions for severe health defects and other medical issues are different. I fervently support a woman's right to an abortion, but if she waits to the point that the fetus could survive on its own outside of the womb, I get a little iffy. If you are at the point where you could feasibly induce labor, or preform a cesarean, instead of an abortion, then I do feel you have waited too long.

[KageSora]

When it comes to late term abortions, I dislike them even more than abortion in general. I really feel that you shouldn't wait so long to get one (barring, of course, those who get them because something unexpected that came up)

 

 

At the same time, I don't want them legally restricted, because it's not like it being illegal to have a late term abortion is actually going to stop somebody who's determined to get one.

 

 

But I strongly disapprove of the idea of getting one for a reason aside for reasons that make carrying it to term unwise such as medical or financial or something similar and severe. But hey--it's not my place to judge, and because it makes me uncomfortable I simply wouldn't get one in the highly unlikely event I actually ended up pregnant in the first place.

 

I cannot approve of the decision to do so, but I will respect that it was a decision made by the parent(s), and it's not my place to judge them for it--I mean, I can't know WHY they chose to, after all. For all I know something came up at the end that made carrying it to term a worse choice and they very much wanted that child.

 

I highly doubt most people who did get a late term abortion would go for 8 months and then wake up one day and out of the blue go "Oh, you know what? I don't actually want this baby I've been carrying for the last 8 months. No real reason, but I just don't want it so I think I'll go get an abortion."

 

And, honestly... I wouldn't trust somebody who did do that with a child in the first place.

[Syaoransbear]

Late term abortions for severe health defects and other medical issues are different. I fervently support a woman's right to an abortion, but if she waits to the point that the fetus could survive on its own outside of the womb, I get a little iffy. If you are at the point where you could feasibly induce labor, or preform a cesarean, instead of an abortion, then I do feel you have waited too long.

I think that most late-term abortions not done out of medical reasons(which are ridiculously rare by the way) are the result of pro-lifers making it difficult for women to get abortions either by outlawing abortion or by harassing them in front of clinics, so they procrastinate until the last moment.

 

I can't imagine anyone going through the majority of a pregnancy just because they were too lazy to get an abortion in a timely manner. Being pregnant is generally very unpleasant. That's probably why women like their children so much, because they are just so grateful that that thing is finally out of there.

[Brite]

Being pregnant is generally very unpleasant. That's probably why women like their children so much, because they are just so grateful that that thing is finally out of there.

 

And fatal for many women, including my father's friend, but pro-lifers still don't care. A woman is a tool to them once she's pregnant.

[Sorrowgrave]

And fatal for many women

^

applies to me if I were to carry a pregnancy due to my thyroid problems, severe lack of iron in my blood and a whole mess of other things.

 

Frankly I know me dying would be putting Nichole threw hell.

so personally if I got raped

Abortion is what'll happen.

NO option.

 

[Kestra15]

And fatal for many women, including my father's friend, but pro-lifers still don't care. A woman is a tool to them once she's pregnant.

While I think "many" is an exaggeration, it is indeed a problem. Hence why my sister aborted last year, and now she has decided to carry this child through to birth it's all very touch-and-go some days.

[Lattspice]

When I was very young.. really really young I was lucky that due to being abused by my best friends boyriend that I never got pregnant. but my younger sister did and she did have an abortion. One that I never knew till I was a lot older. because she had an abortion very younge the doctors told her she had to be careful. She was told, as you get older, the more abortions you have the less chances you have of having a child. So when my sister was 22 she kept her baby since it was concieved from love, thought she was still very younge. anything livinging is alive, plants, trees, animals, and this includes us aswell as children. But when are a child and used against your will, is it fair to be forced to live out a sentence that was not of your choice. killing is killing and it sucks. but live sucks and its not always fair.

But what I do see is that children having children is not helping out society. I think my sister did the smart choice and I know though she was only a child still when this happened to her. Its not her fault and she as a child should be also protected!!

I think abortions depends on the circumstances and since we can not walk in anothers shoes we have no right to judge. Unless someone is using abortion as a form of birtch control then I have no objections. I am pro choice..choice to live, be happy and create happines. there are so many children in need in this world, why must we bring more innocents into this world and only to have them suffer???

[Brite]

^

applies to me if I were to carry a pregnancy due to my thyroid problems, severe lack of iron in my blood and a whole mess of other things.

 

Frankly I know me dying would be putting Nichole threw hell.

so personally if I got raped

Abortion is what'll happen.

NO option.

I get the feeling that if abortions become tighter, a woman would have to go through a whole bunch of long crap to prove her body is in danger of the pregnancy, and while she waits for their answer, she only suffers..

[Sorrowgrave]

I get the feeling that if abortions become tighter, a woman would have to go through a whole bunch of long crap to prove her body is in danger of the pregnancy, and while she waits for their answer, she only suffers..

and that's when you start binge drinking and boxing.

[crocodile100]

I hate people who protest abortions. It's not their choice so they should stay the out of other peoples' decision making.

Edited July 16, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[7Deadly$ins]

I hate people who protest abortions. It's not their choice so they should stay the out of other peoples' decision making.

While I agree, this particular argument can be applied to a lot of things the average person wouldn't agree with.

Edited July 16, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[xhunter]

Calcified fetus, anyone?

 

http://themetapicture.com/lithopedion/

not shore if i should be amazed or repulsed by that. i wonder if it is true and if so she is very lucky to have remained in good health.

 

 

 

 

but anyways i don't think that protesters should be allowed near clinics, or just not in disruptive distance sense that could be breaking the law in some places(a disruptive law i think), because some of the time there the reason of late term. defiantly if they like focusing on the small percents of reasons most of the time if they really care about reducing it.

 

i think the main problem is that most anti-abortion persons just don't understand and are getting it for someone else that has no idea. i'm shore that most if they would look at the facts would have the sense or brain power to at lest consider the families situation.

 

it just irks me to a level when people single out abortion and death as a unacceptable. sometimes death can be the greatest mercy if you know that there is a 80% chance that the child will suffer and never become anything even on a just surviving scale when they get booted out of the home for being fully grown. death knows no race, gender, or creed and is a equal provider. i personalty think anti-abortion persons with the behavior of "its not my problem thus i don't have to help, but it is my concern" can't see past the bad things that a quick death provides in order to spare the lives of the mainly and not the one that is not even formed. a world without death is one that will destroy itself.

 

not trying to be offensive mind you!

[potterwolf]

I hate people who protest abortions. It's not their choice so they should stay the out of other peoples' decision making.

I disagree actually, and this is something I was thinking about the other day.

 

I support the legality of abortions, but I can also see why pro-lifers feel the way they do. Abortion is the one issue where I can most clearly understand both sides' points of view. And even though I disagree with anti-abortion protesters, I give them credit for being activists for their values. Granted, this only applies to non-violent protesters, and I would prefer for them to protest in a rally setting or something, not in front of clinics.

 

But I don't think it's fair to condemn anti-abortion protesters for their activism while at the same time supporting people who are activists for your favored causes. It's not the protesting that's bad. It's the viewpoint.

 

Think about it. If somebody actually believed that having an abortion was equivalent to murder, wouldn't you respect them more for trying to stop it rather than doing nothing? They think that they are fighting for something good, and I can't condemn them for trying to further what they believe to be a loving cause.

[Sorrowgrave]

I disagree actually, and this is something I was thinking about the other day.

 

I support the legality of abortions, but I can also see why pro-lifers feel the way they do. Abortion is the one issue where I can most clearly understand both sides' points of view. And even though I disagree with anti-abortion protesters, I give them credit for being activists for their values. Granted, this only applies to non-violent protesters, and I would prefer for them to protest in a rally setting or something, not in front of clinics.

 

But I don't think it's fair to condemn anti-abortion protesters for their activism while at the same time supporting people who are activists for your favored causes. It's not the protesting that's bad. It's the viewpoint.

 

Think about it. If somebody actually believed that having an abortion was equivalent to murder, wouldn't you respect them more for trying to stop it rather than doing nothing? They think that they are fighting for something good, and I can't condemn them for trying to further what they believe to be a loving cause.

if you're financially, medically mentally, and "ready" in maturity levels and your place in society to have a child, you go up to eight months then say "oh I don't want this baby anymore" and find some doctor willing to abort then that IS murder.

 

but if your doctor says that the baby's dead inside of you and a friend pleas with you not to let your first birthing experience be one of a still born child and you abort.

that is not.

 

 

[potterwolf]

if you're financially, medically mentally, and "ready" in maturity levels and your place in society to have a child, you go up to eight months then say "oh I don't want this baby anymore" and find some doctor willing to abort then that IS murder.

 

but if your doctor says that the baby's dead inside of you and a friend pleas with you not to let your first birthing experience be one of a still born child and you abort.

that is not.

Well obviously aborting a deceased fetus/baby is not murder. It's no longer alive.

 

But what do a mother's financial, medical, mental, and social status have to do with whether or not abortion is murder? If abortion is murder for a rich person, then it is also murder for a poor person. Why would money make any difference?

[Sorrowgrave]

a richer woman could afford the baby and it's medical needs

 

while a poor woman's only chance of her child having a ANYWHERE decent future is to hope that it's snagged up in the adoption agency as a infant, rather than left to rot .

 

What's better?

 

Dying earlier because the mother can't afford the infant's health care (hello SIDs and other infant ailments) or aborting it and the baby never knowing that pain?

 

I'm using baby and child because once it hits 8 months it could survive outside of the mother, depending on size without aid.

[KageSora]

Please explain to me how it's "murder" for a woman who could otherwise care for the child to abort an 8-month fetus but it's not murder for a woman who suddenly had a health complication come up that made it unwise to birth the baby and required the abortion for medical reasons?

 

 

(for the record, while I don't agree that it's "murder", I also do not think people should be getting abortions that late unless they need to, but I doubt most people are getting an abortion that late unless they feel they have no other choice)

Edited July 18, 2012 by KageSora

[potterwolf]

a richer woman could afford the baby and it's medical needs

 

while a poor woman's only chance of her child having a ANYWHERE decent future is to hope that it's snagged up in the adoption agency as a infant, rather than left to rot .

 

What's better?

 

Dying earlier because the mother can't afford the infant's health care (hello SIDs and other infant ailments) or aborting it and the baby never knowing that pain?

 

I'm using baby and child because once it hits 8 months it could survive outside of the mother, depending on size without aid.

I think you're missing my point.

 

Yes, a poor woman may have more obvious reasons for aborting a child, but that's not what I was disagreeing with.

 

You listed a whole bunch of specific positions that a pregnant woman could be in (rich, healthy, mentally stable, etc., late term) and stated that an abortion in that combined situation would be murder. Then you stated (rather obviously) that aborting a baby that would have been stillborn anyway would not be murder.

 

My question is about what distinguishes murder from non-murder in your mind, disregarding the issue of babies that have died in the womb. Where would the line be drawn? What minimum annual income would qualify for a woman to be exempted of murder? At what point in a pregnancy does it become murder?

 

If (and I don't know that you do) call yourself pro-choice, shouldn't you support the choices of all women, not just those in poverty? I support the choice of any woman to have an abortion, regardless of her financial/medical/mental state.

Edited July 18, 2012 by potterwolf

[Sorrowgrave]

No I'm not, I don't consider my self pro life by any means.

 

But listen to Shiny's posts about how the adoption agency works.

 

 

My question is about what distinguishes murder from non-murder in your mind, disregarding the issue of babies that have died in the womb. Where would the line be drawn? What minimum annual income would qualify for a woman to be exempted of murder? At what point in a pregnancy does it become murder?

 

Murder to me is when the pregnancy reaches a point where the supposed child could survive outside of the womb without assistance, then is aborted for non medical reasons.

 

 

short sweet and too the point

[7Deadly$ins]

So then it is still murder if a poor women waits eight months and then decides to abort. Your original post made it seem like socioeconomic status was a factor in late-term abortions.

[KageSora]

Murder to me is when the pregnancy reaches a point where the supposed child could survive outside of the womb without assistance, then is aborted for non medical reasons.

I'm still failing to see why aborting an 8-month fetus "just because" is "murder" but aborting an 8-month fetus for medical reasons isn't.

 

It's either murder or it isn't.

[Sorrowgrave]

I consider growing up in hell a medical reason.

 

if you can't support it, don't breed it. and Especially don't wait 8 months to get rid of it. do it in the first trimester.

[potterwolf]

No I'm not, I don't consider my self pro life by any means.

 

But listen to Shiny's posts about how the adoption agency works.

I think that may have been a typo, but I said 'pro-choice' not 'pro-life'. And I get that in a lot of ways, the adoption system sucks, but that's not the point. The difficulties of a child's life after birth doesn't affect whether or not the abortion of that child should be classified as murder.

 

Murder to me is when the pregnancy reaches a point where the supposed child could survive outside of the womb without assistance, then is aborted for non medical reasons.

 

Okay...but then what does financial/medical/mental status have to do with it at all? Is it an issue of when the abortion was done or is it an issue of the woman's situation? I'm really confused as to your position now.