The Fifth Element Lineage

[Zeldarax]

Welcome back, Deb

 

Milestones?

What a hard choice, I'm liking most of them and can always try more milestones.

But my 2 favourites are:

5 and 7

 

And about the new releases:

Brutes = NO

Fever = Yes (Life or maybe Fire)

They are using symbiotic bacteria to kill their enemies and prey and letting the Sun regulate their lives.

[silver_tiger]

I'll vote for milestones 2 and 4. 2 confuses yet intrigues me, and I'll always vote for anything rainbow.

 

No on Brutes, yes on Fevers in Life.

[Xocowolf]

I agree.

No on Brutes.

Yes on Fever in Life.

[Pink467]

posting additional info on the new releases as I find it...

They are indeed very intelligent dragons. The bacteria on their tails is purposefully nurtured into being what it is, beginning as soon as the stingers grow in. Each Fever has it's own unique strain which it is immune to, but other Fevers can be still infected, although the mortality rate is low.

 

We could say these dragons would make good chemists/pharmacist/doctors.. IF they weren't so moody. They don't particularly enjoy company and are quite territorial, so they'll readily defend their space. One reason they don't keep friends well is because of how dangerous the tail stingers are. It's not entirely unheard of for a Fever to make friends, but they generally try to keep their distance so as not to accidentally hurt the other dragon. (Some of the more sensitive individuals could have a rough time with this, emotionally.)

 

Although quick to anger, Fever wyverns tend to keep their rationality and won't actually attack with their stingers unless there is a real, serious threat. They'll give all sorts of warnings first, such as making angry noises, stomping their feet, swinging their tail around, and/or flaring out their wing sails. The benefit to using the stingers on prey is that it becomes inedible to scavengers so nothing is likely to try and take it and the wyvern can save it for later.

 

Brutes are very much your good ol' classic storybook dragons. They generally live alone, though they are sometimes known to live in groups of three or four. Groups usually consist of those either too young or too old to have much interest in mates. Brutes in their prime tend to be more aggressive, and less tolerant of others.

 

They are hoarders and lair-builders. From the time that they are hatchlings, they will gather anything shiny they can find and bury it in their own little troves. Brutes are also viciously territorial and highly possessive of their treasure. Don't try to raid a Brute lair if there's any chance that the dragon is still alive. Just don't.

 

As stated in their breed description, males will fight for a female's attention. Ultimately, though, it's the female who chooses her mate, and it's not always the winner of the fight. She'll choose whichever she thought fought best. It's very rare that a Brute will mate for life.

 

Brutes also are not often the best parents. Eggs and young hatchlings are cared for mostly because the parent views it as part of their hoard. When the hatchling starts to mature and assert itself, the parent grows less interested in keeping it around. Usually hatchlings will leave the nest on their own around the point where they're fledging. A fledged hatchling that does not leave the nest of its own volition will be forced out by its parent. Fledgelings either choose to strike out on their own, or will sometimes live in small juvenile groups until they reach adulthood.

 

These dragons have no apparent magical ability. Their hides, however, are mildly resistant to most forms of magic. Brute scales are often sought after for this property, and the dragons are sometimes hunted for them. Another reason for hunting is the danger they pose to human settlements in the vicinity of their lair. Otherwise, it's generally best to leave the beasties alone.

 

ETA: tallying votes

Fever:

yes - xoco, silver, zelda, lavinia, deb, fiona, cathie, husker, ryu, roekerd

no - pink, airaani

 

Brute:

yes

no - airaani, fiona, deb, lavinia, zelda, silver, xoco, pink, cathie, husker, ryu, roekerd

Edited March 6, 2014 by Pink467

[Grandmother_cathie]

Milestones: 4 and 7

 

New Dragons:

Brutes - No

Fever - Yes - Life - they purposely grow another, unique lifeform as a form of protection.

 

 

Did anyone not get Brutes that wants some?

[Husker]

Milestones: 3 & 5

 

Brutes: No

Fevers: Yes in Life

[Kaiserf11]

I'm voting:

 

Yes on Fevers, maybe in Life, I see them closer to Life than Fire (as its name seems to suggest)

No on Brutes

 

I'm still loving the Brutes design though

[Roekerd]

I vote

 

Fever: Yes Live

 

Brute: No

[airaani]

I'm gonna say no on Fevers. The poison thing is very cool, but it just doesn't say as... life-y... as, say, vines.

[Pink467]

I agree with airaani. Just being nocturnal is not enough for fire, and just having poison is not enough for life. I'll keep looking for additional info, and feel free to continue the debate!

[Kaiserf11]

I have a question, unrelated to the subject at hand... unrelated to anything elemental really, but I'm really curious and hope you can help me clear this: do you know if the Black dragons have be relegated to a lower class of rarity? I wonder because before I took that over a year vacation of DC, I was only able to catch 1 single CB Black dragon egg, but since I returned, I have grabbed about 5 I guess, and I have seen a lot more at the cave, not like before, when they were extremely rare to even be seen around.

 

Sorry to disrupt the debate on the new breeds with this question, but I'm really curious about it

Edited March 6, 2014 by RyuKaiser

[Fiona]

So far as anyone knows the base rarity of blacks hasn't changed. TJ may have made some adjustments overall that resulted in them being easier to catch from the cave. About the same time other "rares" also became easier to catch in the cave, like stripes. Blacks and stripes are actually intended to be common.

[Kaiserf11]

I see, thanks Fiona. And yeah I guess that explains all since I have caught my very first CB Stripe from the cave in the past weeks too (and I had never seen a CB egg before) so I guess I'm getting lucky too

 

Also, I have a question (I do make a lot of wuestions don't I? ): If I want to change the name of any of my registered dragons, I can do it on the spreadsheet right, but, my question is: if I want to change the name of a dragon, should I report it? Will it affect anything of the date the lineage is keeping? In other words, and I allowed to change the name of a dragon, and if I do it, will it affect the lineage's data?

[Pink467]

Sorry for the voting delay...

I haven't been able to find any more info on the fever wyverns, and even though they have the needed 75% I'm going to have to over rule the decision and say no. If anyone wants to debate past "poison" or "nocturnal" I'm open to it, but for now they will not be added to the lineage.

 

We will be adding 3 new milestones:

1. mishii's rainbows

2. xoco & pink's wyverns

3. cathie's seasonals

 

Give me a few weeks to collaborate with deb on the wording, worth, etc. and hopefully they'll be official by our 5th anniversary (Full Circle = 4/4)

[Grandmother_cathie]

Sorry for the voting delay...

I haven't been able to find any more info on the fever wyverns, and even though they have the needed 75% I'm going to have to over rule the decision and say no. If anyone wants to debate past "poison" or "nocturnal" I'm open to it, but for now they will not be added to the lineage.

 

It's not that they have a poison - it's that they incubate a unique lifeform within themselves as a form of protection. It's not poison, it's bacterial warfare. No other fever has the same bacteria as it's siblings or clutchmates. They reply on a specific part of nature (the bacteria they nurture and breed) to help them survive. At present no other breed of dragon has this ability, making the fevers unique among their cohorts. These are the definition of the life category.

 

On a side note - and I very much hope that it doesn't sound rude, because that is not my intent - I do not think that a single person should be able to overrule a 83% majority. If a single person could, then what is the point of voting in the first place.

[Zeldarax]

And about the new releases:

Brutes = NO

Fever = Yes (Life or maybe Fire)

They are using symbiotic bacteria to kill their enemies and prey and letting the Sun regulate their lives.

For me the symbiotic part is the best reason to add them to the lineage.

Using poison alone 'ldn't be enough for me to add them for the Life category.

 

The Sun regulation is a bonus

 

 

[Kaiserf11]

I agree with cathie and Zelda, the fact they have a symbiotic relationship growing on them and use it as protection, is -in my opinion- enough to consider them Life elementals. No other dragons does that and as it happens in real life with any symbiotic relationship, its a win-win situation both for the Fever as it is for the bacteria growing on them, making them, in a way, capable of sustaining life, something that is unique to other dragon breeds, matching the description of the Life element:

 

LIFE - dragons who rely on or are affected by a very specific part of nature, which must be different than the majority of other breeds.  For example, a qualifier can not be that the dragon depends on living in the trees alone. But Pumpkin dragons would qualify because they live specifically in pumpkins AND can only be bred during Harvest time.

[silver_tiger]

It's not that they have a poison - it's that they incubate a unique lifeform within themselves as a form of protection.  It's not poison, it's  bacterial warfare.  No other fever has the same bacteria as it's siblings or clutchmates.  They reply on a specific part of nature (the bacteria they nurture and breed) to help them survive.  At present no other breed of dragon has this ability, making the fevers unique among their cohorts.  These are the definition of the life category.

In agreement with all of this. No other dragon does anything close to this; they don't have a poison at all, but a lifeform, like Cathie said. That, in my opinion, *more* than qualifies them to be in Life.

 

I still can't see them being affected by the sun enough to be in Fire, just being nocturnal and sleeping in the sun isn't quite enough imo. But Life is a whole other story.

 

...I'll add my two cents about the vetoing because this is bothering me a bit. In any democracy, there is a person with the power to veto. He/she is called the president. I don't think Pink was at all out of line, we just have to put a little more effort into our votes from now on. If we'd said all this at the time we were voting, they'd be in the lineage by now and we wouldn't be having this debate.

Edited March 10, 2014 by silver_chan

[Zeldarax]

Oops, I bred some metallics and clicked the wrong partner.

 

Anyone, who loves a Copper?

http://dragcave.net/teleport/ff542391978e8...d444d98e5cee0dd

 

Enjoy!

[Pink467]

Regarding the votes (and thanks for all the snide PM's, much appreciated ) ...

of the 10 who voted yes 1 was tentative and 6 were generic "ooh new dragon, must add regardless of description". Only 3 of you put any thought in to your replies. I gave you an additional 4 days to comment, but no one bothered. I over ruled the voting on white dragons long ago as well, because I didn't think they fit in with what *I* envisioned this project to be. Enough people put some thought in to it and asked for whites to be reconsidered, and they were included. Notice I said "If anyone wants to debate past "poison" or "nocturnal" I'm open to it, but for now they will not be added to the lineage".

 

As founder of this lineage, I will always possess the ability to veto. I think I've earned it, after mind boggling hours spent on it. If you honestly believe I've misused this power in 5 years, that's your opinion. You have the choice of participating or not, as do I.

[Grandmother_cathie]

Regarding the votes (and thanks for all the snide PM's, much appreciated ) ...

of the 10 who voted yes 1 was tentative and 6 were generic "ooh new dragon, must add regardless of description". Only 3 of you put any thought in to your replies. I gave you an additional 4 days to comment, but no one bothered. I over ruled the voting on white dragons long ago as well, because I didn't think they fit in with what *I* envisioned this project to be. Enough people put some thought in to it and asked for whites to be reconsidered, and they were included. Notice I said "If anyone wants to debate past "poison" or "nocturnal" I'm open to it, but for now they will not be added to the lineage".

 

As founder of this lineage, I will always possess the ability to veto. I think I've earned it, after mind boggling hours spent on it. If you honestly believe I've misused this power in 5 years, that's your opinion. You have the choice of participating or not, as do I.

I'm really rather saddened that you got snarky PMs. We should be adult enough to handle things in public like adults (even if we legally aren't). I don't think I even want to know what was said in them, but I apologize if something I said caused you angst or vexed you. All I can say is that sometimes people don't always show their best face when their toys don't get played with the way they think they should.

 

I don't believe that the 4 "additional days to comment" came across as "if there are no better comments, I'm going to veto." They came across as "not everyone who is generally active has voted and I want to give them time." I saw no reason to further comment on the issue. Also, I was not around for the white discussion - or for many of the early discussions - so I don't know if there was a similar time frame or what was done. I didn't realize, and I apologize. In the future I will try to do better than just "yeppers, I likes me some elemental dragons, so yep," when voting.

 

That being said, I believe that the idea of a symbiotic unique bacteria grown as a form of protection does move the debate past poison. As a completely side comment, what the Fevers have is not a poison at all. Poisons, by many definitions, must be ingested. The Fevers raise a bacteria which in turn produces a neurotoxin that incapacitates and kills the prey of their host. (Can you tell I talked to Nurse Caitriona about that one?)

 

As a side comment, I think that nocturnal has been thrown right out.

 

 

[Fiona]

I agree with airaani. Just being nocturnal is not enough for fire, and just having poison is not enough for life. I'll keep looking for additional info, and feel free to continue the debate!

I'll apologize if my PM came across as snarky. However, there's nothing in that post that indicates you may be considering vetoing Fevers. Therefore I didn't feel any need to restate what had already been adequately expressed by others. Yes, I voted tentatively yes on Fevers, based solely on their breed description. Your additional breed info supported my position, and the other votes were overwhelmingly in favor, so I didn't post again.

 

--It didn't seem necessary to rehash the information regarding Fever's unique bacteria, since it was summed up nicely in one person's post. I don't think it comes across as "oh, shiny new breed. Must add" when people just say, "I agree with that thinking." and don't expand on it.

 

In all the time I've been part of this lineage you've never vetoed adding a breed, even when the vote was split. This one was nearly unanimous. The only no votes were yours and airaani's. Of course you should have more say in the decision than ordinary mortals like the rest of us. You don't normally go against the rest of the members' preferences, however. The sudden veto shocked me, and I still find the way it was done, without warning, uncomfortable.

 

 

 

--- The most ironic part of this is, I don't even like the new dragons. I don't plan on including them in projects.

[Husker]

I also felt the reasons to include the fevers were covered by others and I didn't need to elaborate on my yes vote. I didn't vote yes just because it was a new breed and it should be added automatically.

 

I agree with Cathie's explanation of the symbiotic bacteria and that is why I voted to include the Fevers in the lineage.

[Kaiserf11]

I also apologize if my post came out rude, since I did not wanted that. But I have to say, I may have think on voting yes in the beggining just because it was a new breed and the name "Fever" was really appealing to add them to the lineage. But as the info was expanding the breeds' info I realized the name "Fever" was not enough to add them, BUT, as I said on my post when voting yes, their description made me realize they did not belong to the Fire Element (as I thought in the beggining) but to the Life Element. Again, I may have not expanded my thought that momment, but as I did in my last post, even if it was just a refrase of cathie's vision (only realized of this after I re-read eveything today) the idea of the symbiotic bacteria was more than an enough reason to add them to the lineage. Again, my intention was never to be rude and if I sounded like that, I apologize.

 

As for the veto thing... all I have to say is that it surprised me, I didn't knew you could do that, although, as Fiona said, you should have more say in the decision than the rest of us, you've earned that as the founder of the lineage. Yet, I was shocked by the veto, again, I do think you're on your right to do that, but it would have been nice to know you could do that -not trying to be rude by saying this by the way- because all of us who were not present when the voting on the whites happened, had no idea that could happen (I just learned today that that happened).

 

In the end, anything that is decided on, I'll just accept it (haven't named the new breeds waiting for a decision to be called anyway), I don't think we should start a fight in a lineage like this, where the atmosphere is so welcoming al the time, so, lets try not to ruin that just because of a single breed.

[Lavinia]

I voted for Fevers for all the same reasons as the other folks - as a bonus, I hadn't even looked at others' yes/no votes before I voted. I didn't know if the overall sentiment was yes or no, I just made a decision for myself based on the info I had. I also didn't know that I should have said why - I thought the vote was enough and stood for itself.

 

That said, I'm totally fine with either outcome, and Pink's veto really gave me nothing more than an instant of surprise. She does a lot for the thread, and we appreciate her.