Snow Angel wing switching

[Paintra]

47 minutes ago, Tinibree said:

I've seen someone doctor a precog screenshot, for a messy hatchie. I'm not saying everyone will lie, but some people will. I don't know why someone would lie about a messy hatchie either, but they did. 

Obviously only tangentially related to this topic, but this happened to me; it was a messy Arcana hatchie I planned on freezing. It was... bizzare.

[Chaos Rider]

1 hour ago, soullessheartofsteel said:

They won't be CB, obviously, and I'm sure that's going to disappoint some people

Like me, I'd release my adult CB Snow Angels in in heartbeat if it meant I could have a CB pair of them that were my favourite colour instead of least favourite

 

My preferred solution would be upping the limits so no one would need to release anything to get the colour they wanted though

Edited January 4, 2021 by Chaos Rider

[Tini]

2 hours ago, soullessheartofsteel said:

@Tinibree Ah, forgive me, I definitely wasn't reading/processing something properly. I thought there was talk about the mechanic affecting existing adults that had offspring, which would obviously cause problems, but you're right, being able to influence the egg shouldn't cause problems at all. I hadn't considered that multi-patterned lineages were a thing, just because making them with the existing mechanics would make it a huge effort. And those lineages would definitely be messed up if the parents bred true. So you've officially converted me!

Yeah that's what OP was suggesting, but nobody really wants everyone to just change the wings as many times as they want, so we've just gone in other directions instead. 

[SarcasticGit]

I like it. Never been a fan of not being able to collect 'em all.

[lexi_]

i'm gonna add my thoughts again here: 

 

i dont think were going to get limits upped for just one breed. it doent seem like something thats going to be happening, so i dont like to hypothesize based around it, personally.

i think limits should be kept at 2 (which is what will most realistically happen), and randomly assigned colors for cbs should be kept. 

 

i dont know how we would implement them being able to have different colors, whether it be a BSA, or scroll-linked hatching, or influencing, etc, but i think we should have an option to collect all 3 colors, as well as an update to hatchling sprites to reflect what color their wings are. (it never made sense to me anyway why they are the way that they are now, i have a tri-color scroll and seeing the white wings on the hatchling has always thrown me off a bit ) i think it would be nice for the sprites to match what color they will be not only because it makes a lot more sense visually, but it will also be critical when it comes to trading lines, as, like with solstices, you will be able to see if someone is being truthful about coloration no matter what, whether this mechanic is linked to scroll hatching or a bsa or whatever. 

 

personally, i like the scroll hatching method initially, in addition to a BSA, maybe. like, if you have a white-wing scroll, your eggs will hatch to be white winged. but you can trade for a gold-winged or tri-color hatchling to have for future use, in which case they will be able to override the scroll hatching (if this makes any sense in the way that im wording it x_x) and they will instead be the color that they were influenced to be. so people can grab a couple messy snow angels of the colors they need and be able to use those to influence their others. 

 

i do NOT like the idea of them matching their parent's color. i, in theory, am a fan of alternating patterns, but i dont have any on my scroll right now since mine will always be tri-color, and that might not be the next step in the pattern that i want and thus i can't keep the egg/continue the line and be happy with how it turned out.

 

those are just my thoughts.

[Tini]

40 minutes ago, InvaderAlexis said:

i dont think were going to get limits upped for just one breed. it doent seem like something thats going to be happening, so i dont like to hypothesize based around it, personally.

i think limits should be kept at 2 (which is what will most realistically happen), and randomly assigned colors for cbs should be kept. 

I too don't want only one limit to change. I want them all to change, including gon, to 6 preferably. But that's a whole different suggestion.

 

40 minutes ago, InvaderAlexis said:

i dont know how we would implement them being able to have different colors, whether it be a BSA, or scroll-linked hatching, or influencing, etc, but i think we should have an option to collect all 3 colors, as well as an update to hatchling sprites to reflect what color their wings are. (it never made sense to me anyway why they are the way that they are now, i have a tri-color scroll and seeing the white wings on the hatchling has always thrown me off a bit ) i think it would be nice for the sprites to match what color they will be not only because it makes a lot more sense visually, but it will also be critical when it comes to trading lines, as, like with solstices, you will be able to see if someone is being truthful about coloration no matter what, whether this mechanic is linked to scroll hatching or a bsa or whatever. 

While I would like wing update I really don't think it'd happen. It would be hard to sprite a difference between goldwing and tri-color at the tiny scale we have. Which is why I'd like the ability to be sure of wing color all by myself. (It would also be mildly annoying with needing more freezies)

 

40 minutes ago, InvaderAlexis said:

personally, i like the scroll hatching method initially, in addition to a BSA, maybe. like, if you have a white-wing scroll, your eggs will hatch to be white winged. but you can trade for a gold-winged or tri-color hatchling to have for future use, in which case they will be able to override the scroll hatching (if this makes any sense in the way that im wording it x_x) and they will instead be the color that they were influenced to be. so people can grab a couple messy snow angels of the colors they need and be able to use those to influence their others. 

i do NOT like the idea of them matching their parent's color. i, in theory, am a fan of alternating patterns, but i dont have any on my scroll right now since mine will always be tri-color, and that might not be the next step in the pattern that i want and thus i can't keep the egg/continue the line and be happy with how it turned out.

I feel like this assumes we'll get a sprite update but given how the spriters are largely inactive I don't really think that'll happen. What's bad about matching their parent? That's not actually something you touched on. The first year would be a little hard but if you grab angel eggs early on you, theoretically, could influence colors on a lot of the later eggs. I feel like requiring them to be hatched on somebody else's scroll would make it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

If I pick up a tri egg from the ap I really like, and then I have to find someone with slots and tri wings, have them possibly use an incubate, and then remember to send it back, assuming neither of us go to bed in the time it takes to hatch? And I have to do this forever? Over just influencing it like a pink and going to sleep. The first year for early eggs you probably would still be doing the previous bit, but in later years it would even out to not needing all the extra steps.

[lexi_]

13 minutes ago, Tinibree said:

What's bad about matching their parent? That's not actually something you touched on.

i for one like the idea of being able to have offbeat/alternating patterns. it's something i would be very interested in doing if it were more reliable, so if they were forced to match their parent with no BSA to be able to correct that then i'd be very aginst it. but i guess i completely forgot about the idea of it being able to match the parent and then be influenced to be a different color  my bad

 

i just suggested what i did since there's already the mechaning of a scroll "being a certain color", i.e. the CBs being that color, and, the way that it works currently, every snow angel that you raise being that color. so i thought it might be logical to think that that might not change, but just an additional mechanic being added to be able to influence it. i agree though, it does sound like a pain. i'd much rather have what you suggested, in that case. it just completely slipped my mind that that was a possibility as well  

 

i'm just trying to be the most realistic with what i suggest, because if i can see any change at all, i dont think it would be super drastic. which is why i hypothetically suggested the scroll-matched hatching in the first place, since that would match the scroll-linked cbs we have. it made sense in my head... 

 

but yes. i'd much prefer what you said. i dont know why i wasnt thinking about it 

Edited January 6, 2021 by InvaderAlexis

[DragonLady86]

12 minutes ago, Tinibree said:

What's bad about matching their parent? That's not actually something you touched

Because a number of people do alternating color lineages. This one for example https://dragcave.net/lineage/gxmx5 the next should be bred with a gold wing.

[Tini]

2 hours ago, InvaderAlexis said:

i for one like the idea of being able to have offbeat/alternating patterns. it's something i would be very interested in doing if it were more reliable, so if they were forced to match their parent with no BSA to be able to correct that then i'd be very aginst it. but i guess i completely forgot about the idea of it being able to match the parent and then be influenced to be a different color  my bad

 

2 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

Because a number of people do alternating color lineages. This one for example https://dragcave.net/lineage/gxmx5 the next should be bred with a gold wing.

I'd just like to point out that at the end of the previous page, I'm loudly defending alternating lines against only breeding true. I'm not saying 'now they just breed true' its 'they breed true and Also we influence'

 

2 hours ago, InvaderAlexis said:

i just suggested what i did since there's already the mechaning of a scroll "being a certain color", i.e. the CBs being that color, and, the way that it works currently, every snow angel that you raise being that color. so i thought it might be logical to think that that might not change, but just an additional mechanic being added to be able to influence it. i agree though, it does sound like a pain. i'd much rather have what you suggested, in that case. it just completely slipped my mind that that was a possibility as well  

 

i'm just trying to be the most realistic with what i suggest, because if i can see any change at all, i dont think it would be super drastic. which is why i hypothetically suggested the scroll-matched hatching in the first place, since that would match the scroll-linked cbs we have. it made sense in my head... 

 

but yes. i'd much prefer what you said. i dont know why i wasnt thinking about it 

 

Every year newbies get extremely confused why they can only raise one wing type, trying over and over to get something else. Breeding true also avoids that.

It does, mechanically, make sense to keep the scroll-lock but, in use, its painful. I think he'd have to change the coding to allow us to collect new stuff anyway, so we wouldn't need to keep it. Not to bring up alt sweets too much but they were coded so that any hatchie that hit them turned black, I imagine that's exactly how the snow angles are coded. Why write two codes for the same concept? If he's rewriting code might as well make it as user friendly  as possible imo.

 

It's also a pain with trading cause, say I get a hatchie from you, who has tri wing iirc, and try to trade/gift it, people assume it's what my scroll is so anyone looking would think 'oh this is gold' and that i'm lying. Of course assuming you're the one that hatchied it and didn't get it from Yet someone else lol. What if an egg hatched in the ap? rng time? Breeder's scroll type? These are just hypotheticals.

 

[Ruffledfeathers]

I wonder if it would help:

 

- Having the encyclopaedia link show what specific snow angel variant it would be.

- As others have suggested altering the wings so it’s obvious what wing variant it is before growing. 

 

I think that having the colour default to that of the parent, and also being able to influence eggs would be best imo. Thus in the AP it will just hatch with parent wing colour. 
 

A time based system could work, it could be like Fire Gems! If it were time left, I would hate that because we have very little time over Holiday periods. I feel that a clear indication of what colours are bred when, and what colour you have, is going to be extremely helpful. 

[Fuzzbucket]

If there is to be a change, why not stick with KISS. No change for CBs, but the ability to influence a bred egg. You'd have to be given the three choices because clearly having your own CB influence for its own colour would be useless  - but that shouldn't be too hard. All these complications are just too complicated !

[MissK.]

I wouldn't mind that simple application, though I still don't see why it has to be different between CB and bred eggs - if people want to release theirs and get new ones what's the issue? But yeah compared to what we have now, it would be much nicer to be able to build some lineages for a change with a simple influence option.

[Fuzzbucket]

Because the original mechanic - presumably defined by the creator - is scroll defined.

 

We aren't all entitled to have everything the way you we want it, even in a game. And I speak as one who get their least favourite !

[MissK.]

Oh sure, and if it is a case of the artists (or TJ for some reason) not wanting people to have different CBs specifically that's fine of course. But from what I recall they were not created with that idea in mind, it was just an issue of not being able to pick between the sprites so they ended up randomly distributed. Right now nobody can have more than the scroll coded type no matter the lineage. If that premise is changed, isn't it possible that the same goes for CBs? 

 

It's not about being entitled to anything, I'm just saying if we're suggesting this anyway, it could apply to CBs as well. It doesn't have to; as I said just influencing bred eggs to make some lineages and collect the different versions that way is already a very nice change. But this is a discussion after all.

[Tini]

The actual issue with freeing CB colors would be people dumping snow angels that have been in lineages for years and messing them up a bit. Freed stuff doesn't have names after all and some people Only collect lines with all named. I think the original reason was more 'well you cant have all 3 with 2 CBs so you get one type' since iirc it was like solstices, where the spriter(s) just sent TJ all the varients and he decided he liked all three. (I wonder if its like, a rotation actually with new scrolls. Like last person signed up gets gold, next gets tri, person after that gets white. Just an idle thought)

 

I agree the simplest is influencing whatever way you want with any angel, I was just trying to preserve some of the original mechanic. nbd for me though. I'm all for giving TJ more options.

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, Tinibree said:

The actual issue with freeing CB colors would be people dumping snow angels that have been in lineages for years and messing them up a bit.

 

That WOULD be a pain.

[Chaos Rider]

It wouldn't mess up the lineages though, the dragons and their offspring would still exist, you just wouldn't be able to get any more dragons out of the released ones

 

@Tinibree I thought released dragons kept their names

[Tini]

31 minutes ago, Chaos Rider said:

It wouldn't mess up the lineages though, the dragons and their offspring would still exist, you just wouldn't be able to get any more dragons out of the released ones

 

@Tinibree I thought released dragons kept their names

Do they? I honestly don't know I just assumed they didn't cause they're wild dragons and I've never seen one named. I guess I'll grab an ap egg and test this.

Edit: Or I can just check the wiki which says When done, the dragon loses its name and description, and it goes to live in the wild. 

 

But I'm not saying it'll mess with the Actual lineage just....you're gonna have to trust me people would be upset to see names suddenly turn into codes en mass in their snow angel lines.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Tinibree

[Chaos Rider]

Pity their names get wiped when released. I would have released mine and started fresh if there was the chance for me to get different coloured CBs but not if doing that would ruin lineages for other people

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

On 1/6/2021 at 7:42 PM, Tinibree said:

Every year newbies get extremely confused why they can only raise one wing type, trying over and over to get something else. Breeding true also avoids that. 

 

Not to bring up alt sweets too much but they were coded so that any hatchie that hit them turned black, I imagine that's exactly how the snow angels are coded. 

 

That was what I came here to ask: If the sweetlings were the same. 

 

My scroll is cursed.

[Fuzzbucket]

No - your scroll just has pink sweetlings. As does mine. That's not a curse.

[ShorahNagi]

10 hours ago, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

That was what I came here to ask: If the sweetlings were the same. 

Alt. Sweetlings were added due to a site wide glitch. According to the wiki:

 

During their initial release, a bug during the early hours of the 14th caused all caught eggs to auto-abandon. As an apology, the affected scrolls were marked to receive an alternate color of Sweetling. (The black ones meant to represent Singles Awareness Day - pink sweetlings are the regulars [and technically not a curse as I'd argue those who lost their eggs were cursed as some might have had awesome codes])

 

Snow Angel colors (and how some changed) were a whole different can of worms.

Edited January 14, 2021 by ShorahNagi

[DragonLady86]

On 1/13/2021 at 8:49 PM, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

That was what I came here to ask: If the sweetlings were the same. 

 

My scroll is cursed.

Sweetlings were the same code. But you only got black if effected by a site wide glitch that deleted a bunch of them off scrolls. The black was originally the spriter's alt. Also no one can get them anymore. Even the scrolls coded for blacks get pinks now. Do NOT ask for them to change it. You don't want to open that can of worms.

[lexi_]

i think we should get back to the subject of snow angels. sweetlings will never be changed, and its not really what we were talking about here.

 

i personally just caught my CB snow angels this past year in 2020, because i missed their initial release and just came back to the site to be able to catch all my missing CBs. i got a color that i'm decently happy with, but i can understand the disappointment of someone who got a color that they didn't want because of RNG, and are never able to have another color of them regardless of lineage because of this. 

 

personally, i dont think people should be able to swap out their CBs. yes, it might be a little disappointing for some to be stuck forever with their least favorite coloration, but still, thats how it is now already and we're unable to have ANY of the other colors no matter what. which, honestly, i find a little odd..? and kinda irritating. even if we were unable to swap out our CBs (which, again, i am very against), people will be able to collect other colors of snow angels and not feel bummed that their whole scroll is their least favorite color. i think that's pretty fair. (sorry if this makes no sense its pretty early right now..)

 

i'm against CB switching because of some of the reasons said before: people would be releasing their CBs, erasing names from lineages and ruining them for some people who aren't into unnamed dragons. i also am pretty wary of there being an overabundance of one coloration if one is much, much more popular than the others. but that's honestly a really weak reasoning, i'll admit, and it's not much of a reason to keep people from having their favorite coloration just because bALaNCiNg... 

yeah. sorry if this makes NO sense, i'm just waking up right now  

[Fuzzbucket]

I have my least favourite colour. And I don't support a change. But if there were one, ONLY one where a hatchling could grow up the colour of its mother. Maybe the mother herself could have the BSA,and it would hold after hatching - like influence. But I can't imagine how trades could be made safe - people WOULD lie about it, I feel sure.