Jump to content
Murkydepths

Snow Angel wing switching

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

But if there were one, ONLY one where a hatchling could grow up the colour of its mother. Maybe the mother herself could have the BSA,and it would hold after hatching - like influence. 

 

I'm confused by the logic behind this. Only the mother can influence an egg to be same color as itself? What about other adults? What about auto abandoned eggs? They don't get no chance to be a different color...?

 

And after reading the posts, I think a influence mechanics like pinks seems to work fine, but it's gonna involve the complication of scroll-coded color vs influence color and whether it changes when it hit another scroll (ie, does an un-influenced hatchi change color when it transfer from scroll to scroll? it does now, but if there's this whole influencing thing going on and if influenced hatchi can hold their colors after hatching and transferring it just overcomplicates stuff). I think an easier way would be to get rid of the "scroll color" concept alltogether for bred eggs (CB is a different story, I prefer keeping the scroll code color for CB, for the reasons many have stated). Have eggs set defaultly to be color of the parent, and if you want a different color have an adult influence it, and have it hold after hatching. There's certainly possibility of lying, but I don't think it should be a concern like "oh people will lie so we shouldn't implement this"...

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, Moriaty said:

 

I'm confused by the logic behind this. Only the mother can influence an egg to be same color as itself? What about other adults? What about auto abandoned eggs? They don't get no chance to be a different color...?

The mother of the egg. She bore it, she determines its colour, if asked.

 

Autoed eggs - well, no. NO huge biggie, I think.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Rereading over this thread, I'm all for a BSA and definetly see it as the best option to give the Snow Angels to let people get a different wing.

 

Reason being - new users getting CBs for the first time don't get to pick wings, they're stuck with scroll coded until next year. And old users get to keep their originals*, and now get the others.

 

Best way I see it working is - give it a 1 day cool down and have it go on rotation [basically like redecorate (which would be a decent name for it)]. So using it [random order for this example] would go:

 

White > Gold > Tricolor

 

So a White coded scroll you would have to BSA the egg once to get Gold, and twice to get Tricolor. 

On a Gold scroll, it would be once for Tricolor, twice for White.

And on tricolor, once for white. Twice for gold.

In all cases, using it a third time defaults it back to the original scroll color.

 

No use of BSA defaults it to the scroll coded color, and trading/abandoning would remove whatever influence the BSA had on the egg.

 

*I understand there are some out there who will release their old CBs and use bred ones they picked up to get a CB of their desired color, but hopefully cases like this would be few and far between or not affect a lot of dragons.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, InvaderAlexis said:

i'm against CB switching because of some of the reasons said before: people would be releasing their CBs, erasing names from lineages and ruining them for some people who aren't into unnamed dragons. i also am pretty wary of there being an overabundance of one coloration if one is much, much more popular than the others. but that's honestly a really weak reasoning, i'll admit, and it's not much of a reason to keep people from having their favorite coloration just because bALaNCiNg...

I just managed to misread what "switching" means and this gave me an idea that I probably wouldn't oppose:

 

Allow people to swap adult CB snow angels. It's only ever a 1:1 swap (you can't trade an adult CB snow angel for anything else (although nothing's stopping people from throwing in something to sweet the swap deal if they like, I guess, and from swappers to ask for something to be thrown in, but being ignored in favour of people who aren't asking anything extra and just want the other wing colour :P)), the Snow Angel distribution stays roughly the same (notwithstanding people who swap and then release their swapped CB and catch another of their scroll-colouration from the cave, or something, but that's a lot of effort to go through to proliferate one's own scroll-colour), the names would just transfer with the dragon, etc.

 

I don't think this works as a stand-alone solution, this is just for the CB question, and I'm not interested in pushing for this idea (I don't really care what happens with CB Snow Angels, they can stay as they are, I don't mind), it was just something that came to mind. It's almost surely overkill to code this just for this one problem, but it might work in principle. ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, ShorahNagi said:

No use of BSA defaults it to the scroll coded color, and trading/abandoning would remove whatever influence the BSA had on the egg.

 

So I see this kind of suggestion come up a few times and as I stated in my last post do have a question about it.

 

From what I understand, we want: User A (white wing) influence an egg to be tri color, then hatch it, then trade the hatchling to User B (gold wing) and B would end up with a tri color adult.

 

What about the following though? User A (white wing) didn't influence the egg, and had it hatch on his/her scroll. Then he/she trade the hatchi with user B (gold wing), will the hatchi end up being white or gold wing?

 

If the idea is that it keep its hatching color then it's fine, I'm just overthinking things, but if it switches to gold wing, then things would get complicated - it means we're keeping the "hatchi change color when it hit a different scroll" and you'd need a flag that tells "hey this hatchi comes from an egg that's been influenced" in order to not change color and I feel like this would complicate things both code wise and understanding wise.

 

I'm kind of also against having CBs be influenceable, we should after all keep something from the original mechanics...so no comment on that part.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Moriaty said:

From what I understand, we want:

User A (white wing) influence an egg to be tri color, then hatch it, then trade the hatchling to User B (gold wing) and B would end up with a tri color adult.

 

What about the following though? User A (white wing) didn't influence the egg, and had it hatch on his/her scroll. Then he/she trade the hatchi with user B (gold wing), will the hatchi end up being white or gold wing?

My mentioning of the BSA's influence being lost is in regards to the egg (so I, gold scroll - influnce an egg to tricolor. I trade that egg to white scroll...egg will be white unless they use the BSA)

 

In regards to hatchlings...

In case #1....I feel If already hatched, then yes. It would be whatever color it was influenced as* (as the proposed BSA seems people to want to affect it in the egg and NOT the once hatched dragon [so whatever the egg was influenced as before it hatches is what it grows up to be provided it was not traded as egg)

 

*Yes, this could lead to people lying about an already hatched dragon but that's always a risk (unless the s1/s2 sprites were updated)

 

Not quite sure what might happen with case #2, though I suspect that might fall under the current rule (so the uninflunced egg would have the current rule [so uninflunced hatched on gold > traded to white = white adult])

 

TL/DR:

BSA used on egg > egg hatched on scroll BSA was used on = Hatchling grows up to be BSA chosen color even if traded (if traded as egg, it's defaulted to scroll color and must be influenced again)

 

BSA not used on egg > hatches on scroll that failed to use BSA = follows current rules (so white scroll hatchling to gold scroll = hatchling grows up gold)

Edited by ShorahNagi

Share this post


Link to post

I like the idea of being able to “influence” a snow angel egg to be whatever wing color.

 

I’m a little lost on the discussion on hatchlings & hatchling trading though. I’m sure this has been mentioned before (maybe someone can link the thread?) but the whole hatchie color wing trading / trust issue would be solved if we could get an update to our aeon’s precognition ability so that it can predict not just gender but also snow angel wing color (and gemshard/Nebula/Pargulus color etc). Then again, that might be too complicated to code.

 

(edit: lol looks like someone opened up a thread like two threads down from this one and I only now just noticed. Here’s the aeon thread -> Thread )

 

Another thought, what about “influencing” hatchies instead of the eggs? You can’t tell what color the adult snow angel will be based on the hatchie sprites anyways. It could be interesting? Might also be complicated though. 

Edited by Kigyptnee

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Kigyptnee said:

I like the idea of being able to “influence” a snow angel egg to be whatever wing color.

 

I’m a little lost on the discussion on hatchlings & hatchling trading though. I’m sure this has been mentioned before (maybe someone can link the thread?) but the whole hatchie color wing trading / trust issue would be solved if we could get an update to our aeon’s precognition ability so that it can predict not just gender but also snow angel wing color (and gemshard/Nebula/Pargulus color etc). Then again, that might be too complicated to code.

 

(edit: lol looks like someone opened up a thread like two threads down from this one and I only now just noticed. Here’s the aeon thread -> Thread )

 

Another thought, what about “influencing” hatchies instead of the eggs? You can’t tell what color the adult snow angel will be based on the hatchie sprites anyways. It could be interesting? Might also be complicated though. 

If you need a different suggestion implemented to get yours to work, it's already a no go. It's too hard to get one suggestion actually in game. And I highly doubt that aeon one will go through anyway. Every way we've had to learn color variants early seems to get "fixed". So its unlikely something to get around intended mechanics will happen.

 

I dont see a difference from influencing an egg vs a hatchling mechanically but I'm going to lean towards no. If you're trying to get other colors you already have a very limited time. The window between hatching and adult is even smaller. Holidays need less stress not more. Updating hatchling sprites so you can tell them apart is much simpler.

Edited by DragonLady86

Share this post


Link to post
31 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

Updating hatchling sprites so you can tell them apart is much simpler.

I like this suggestion. Good idea. 👍

 

edit: ^I mean, if we’re concerned about hatchies/hatchie trading (which it looks like some people are). I’m pretty neutral about it personally. :)

 

Ultimately, as long as we can agree on some way to change the current snow angel wing color mechanics, at least for bred eggs (influencing the egg to your desired wing color being my favorite suggestion) I think we’re good. And then hopefully tj will consider it too. Fingers crossed. 🤞

Edited by Kigyptnee

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, Kigyptnee said:

Another thought, what about “influencing” hatchies instead of the eggs? You can’t tell what color the adult snow angel will be based on the hatchie sprites anyways. It could be interesting? Might also be complicated though. 

Way I see it (lore wise - as sometimes this seems to be an issue for some) - what the hatchling will be is set at the moment it hatches and thus unable to be further altered by magic or other means beyond divine intervention [TJ]

Edited by ShorahNagi

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, ShorahNagi said:

Way I see it (lore wise - as sometimes this seems to be an issue for some) - what the hatchling will be is set at the moment it hatches and thus unable to be further altered by magic or other means beyond divine intervention [TJ]

 

I'd see it that way too, actually.

Share this post


Link to post

Chiming into this again

 

1. 'Why treat bred eggs diferent than CB?' SOLSTICE. You can't have blue CB. Accepted mechanic. (Reason? Not messing existing lines, keep in mind some will go to kill instead of release)

2. If you do something, you only do it to the egg. Once hatched, that condition is permanent. No other dragon works against this

3. Is clear that the vast majority of players do ckrs and want the wings to match the parent. This is why 'breeding true' should be the default mechanic. Now if you want alternating colors, only then you need to go find another color adult to influence and hatch your egg (those alternating do it now anyway)

I'd preffer a mechanic where the vast majority isn't forced to interact with other players and trust them not to lie about: their scroll color, IF they influenced, to hatch it and to safely return. I'd like to be able to get all 3 colors by myself

So breeding-true + influence I support

 

4. All trust issues could be weaved away if the hatchi sprites are updated. Is doable, the bands don't need to be more than 1px wide to allready be able to tell a tricolor from a white. All it takes is for 'someone' to not be stubborn

Edited by camelia2

Share this post


Link to post

I got White as my scroll code. I wanted Tri-Colour or Gold and I got my least favourite.

 

It's been years and it still stings. So much so I've been tempted to abandon my original scroll, burn it, and start a new one, burn the new one if Angels didn't get Tri or Gold wings, rinse and repeat until I got my Tri or Golds.

 

But that still wouldn't solve the problem of me then not having the White and Gold or White and Tri wing colours.

 

I like the suggestions here but they seem really complicated.

 

Perhaps something simpler.

 

Snow Angels, having three sprites get a CB cap of six, with a cap of two CBs of each Wing Sprite.

 

If you have no CBs you can catch two this year and they'll be the wing colour of your coded scroll. Next year they'll be a different colour and the year after the final wing colour you haven't got.

 

So for me, White, then Gold, then Tri-Colour or White, Tri-Colour, then, Gold.

 

If you do have your two CBs then you can catch CBs of a different wing colour straight off.

 

Offspring would take on their mother's wing colour. Non-related bred eggs would colour according to your scroll code unless influenced by one of your other angels to take on the wing colour of the influencing Angel.

 

This solution would mean we get the pretty dragons we want and can collect all the general player available sprites. Lineages aren't ruined. TJ gets to keep the scroll colouring mechanism.

 

Everyone is happy.

Share this post


Link to post
On 2/7/2023 at 9:11 AM, Cireth said:

Snow Angels, having three sprites get a CB cap of six, with a cap of two CBs of each Wing Sprite.

 

By and large, the main issue with this is that it's extremely unlikely TJ would ever raise the CB limit that high (if at all), and it would be controversial at the very least if only Snow Angels got this limit raise. Take me for example - I have white-winged Snow Angels, and they're my least favourite variant (starting to feel bad for the white-winged, this seems like a common sentiment lmao), but Snow Angels in general are pretty low down my list of Christmas dragons I care for, let alone Holidays overall. For those two reasons, I simply don't collect them, though I'm always happy to breed my CBs for people who want offspring for them, which is (unrelated to your suggestion) why I'd have a big dilemma if TJ allowed us to choose what colour our CBs are through any change at all. I want gold-winged but I wouldn't want to release my CBs (stripping them of their names and messing them up for anyone who's collected offspring on the basis that I name all of my dragons), and killing them would pose the same problem sideways; they'd keep their names if I didn't unname them first (which is its own whole Thing) but they'd, you know, be dead.

All that aside, as someone who just doesn't collect Snow Angels, I'd be devastated if everyone was suddenly able to have six CBs - three times the number for any other breed - but I was still only allowed to have two CB Snows, or Floral-Crowned. Think of all the lineages I could make on my own if I had six CB Florals. Not that I have many problems in that regard anyway, because the DC community is largely wonderful, but still.

And altering CB limits for all Holidays is... well, a different thread entirely. It is a little bit strange that Halloweens don't have the same limits, but I think that's something to do with the whole hoard-as-much-candy-as-possible vibe that Halloween has going on XD

Share this post


Link to post

I think the simplest solution would be that CBs are scroll-coded, and bred ones could be influenced as an egg.

 

With no influence present, they would become the default color of the scroll.

 

That preserves existing lineages while still allowing all the variants to be obtained (and opens up new single-scroll lineage options as well as continuing existing lineages found inthe AP).

 

It would suck for those of us who cant have CBs of our favorite color then, but I dont think there's really a way to satisfy every single possible issue that would crop up with allowing us to have more colors per scroll...  I think that might cover the most bases--after all, those of us who don't have our favorite color are already stuck without it.  It wouldn't change anything one way or another there but would at least give us a chance to have something of the colors we liked...

 

Not sure how the influence would be best handled, though.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, StarlightLion said:

I have white-winged Snow Angels, and they're my least favourite variant (starting to feel bad for the white-winged, this seems like a common sentiment lmao)

I wanted them SO much. I am not alone !

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I wanted them SO much. I am not alone !

 

True! I also would have preferred the white-winged variant.

 

It really is just a matter of personal taste.

Edited by Tiira

Share this post


Link to post

I don't really play the game any more, so I've already gotten lost about all the BSA stuff and people being worried about trades etc, but I like the idea of having a more colourful scroll and being able to get the others. Heck, if I played, I'd just want a chance of obtaining all three forms for my inner collector to be happy.  CB doesn't actually matter for me, if you really want to make a line with Christmas dergs without inbreeding, you'd have to trade anyhow, so its not actually a massive deal personally.

Share this post


Link to post

Holidays imminent again and I'm staring forlornly at a 2g Fanalea bred from a white-winged Snow Angel.  I would dearly love to continue the lineage, but I have the tri-coloured variant (typically, my least favourite 😪).  As he's due to mature in only 13 hours, I thought I'd check if any of my pals have the white variant.  Nope, we all have tri-coloured.  We've just introduced a new player to the game, so I could gift it to her, but that would be a complete lottery as we have no idea what she'll get.  Such a massive shame.  

Share this post


Link to post

I'm surprised I haven't seen this thread. I would LOVE to be able to collect all wing colors. If we can't have alt sweetlings, at least give us this....

Share this post


Link to post

I can get behind bred angels inheriting wing colours - there are already other species in the cave which don't necessarily breed true - but I'm not sure how I feel about messing with the CBs. The existing mechanism is what the spriters intended, and I'd say it's a bit rude to just change the mechanism entirely if that's not what they want.
 

I've never been able to help feeling that the "I HATE this snow angel I only want a DIFFERENT one" arguments are.. a bit silly? and somewhat insulting to the spriters? I could draw a snow angel from memory right now, but I couldn't tell you offhand which wing colour I've got. It's hardly the end of the world, just a minor variation in the colour scheme. They're all very festive and they fit in just fine with the other holiday dragons. It's not like one of the variants has bright blue wings for no valid reason, but even if it did, maybe the solution would be a sprite update rather than removing their unique mechanism.


Having the bred dragons inherit a colour would allow people to get whichever colour they prefer (or all of them. I'd want all of them.) without messing up lineages or the original, intended wing colour system.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, _Charky said:

I can get behind bred angels inheriting wing colours - there are already other species in the cave which don't necessarily breed true - but I'm not sure how I feel about messing with the CBs. The existing mechanism is what the spriters intended, and I'd say it's a bit rude to just change the mechanism entirely if that's not what they want.
 

I've never been able to help feeling that the "I HATE this snow angel I only want a DIFFERENT one" arguments are.. a bit silly? and somewhat insulting to the spriters? I could draw a snow angel from memory right now, but I couldn't tell you offhand which wing colour I've got. It's hardly the end of the world, just a minor variation in the colour scheme. They're all very festive and they fit in just fine with the other holiday dragons. It's not like one of the variants has bright blue wings for no valid reason, but even if it did, maybe the solution would be a sprite update rather than removing their unique mechanism.

Oh for me personally, I kind of grew into mine. I have the gold-winged variety, and when I first got onto dragon cave I desperately wanted the tricolor one because it was so colorful, and if not the white ones as they also had two colors instead of one. Imagine my disappointment when mine turned out to be just gold, a variety that I was least hoping for because it didn't have any patterns and looked "plain" to me. 

However over the years, while I do look at the tricolor ones with some longing from time to time, I'm perfectly content and happy with my gold-winged snow angels; they've grown on me and while I would be delighted if the bred ones kept their parents' wing colors as that means I can keep all three, it just goes to show that what you may be disappointed in or dislike or outright do not want, those feelings can soften over time and you might even find yourself appreciating your previously-disliked snow angel. It's been a valuable lesson to me personally, and I really like my snow angel for that. 

Edited by Rosedamai

Share this post


Link to post

I want the white wings. Just because of lineages I wanted to build; they are all pretty. That was what I hoped to get. Didn't happen. My closest DC buddy wanted the tri colour that I got. She got white. That's life. I also wanted to be blonde. That didn't happen either. We all need to learn to live with life. Just sayin'. 

Edited by Fuzzbucket

Share this post


Link to post

On one hand, it would be nice for Snow Angels to at least "breed true" so that their lineages match when you get new angels. Keep the CBs as they are, but let the wing color be inherited.

 

On the other hand, I do find it fun that I have Eggnog Knight and her wing color stairstep. So maybe an Astrael BSA on eggs would be the best for this breed.

Share this post


Link to post

with the pollinate bsa on astrael i feel like we have a perfect example of what to do with changing snow angel wings. probably not have it work on cbs though, but this allow lineages to continue and everyone to potentially get all sprites

Edited by Moriaty

Share this post


Link to post


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.