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ANSWERED:Not sure why I'm not allowed to make public trades anymore?

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On 8/7/2018 at 5:56 PM, tjekan said:

I would recommend either changing it to "Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for. No links, names, or personal identification allowed." or "Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for. 'Haves' and 'wants' are the only information permitted in this text box."

The first one would probably work very well. The second one still seems a bit vague to me.

On 8/7/2018 at 5:56 PM, tjekan said:

Users aren't psychic, they don't all read forum threads like this one, some are kids and others read English as a second language.

THIS. Very much this.

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Wow. I'm glad I read thru this. I wasn't aware some of what I was doing was against the rules.... 

 

And I have accidentally added the wrong hatchie/egg to a link before, claiming it was something else (and seen other forum users do this- must be unknowingly because they aren't one to fool the others). Which I guess I could get banned for? If anything, for posting my 'haves' in the first place. 

 

I do believe there are many more people who are correctly using it or mistakenly using it, thinking they're alright, than those trying to troll and mess it up for the rest of us.

 

I do hope we get clearer rules posted- and ban levels at least, not straight to permaban. Warnings, perhaps? I've seen a lot worse on the trading hub than an outside link or incorrect trade (I always check before accepting offers or offering on others, though I make mistakes too).

 

 

So am I bannable for posting up something like "free, offer a dummy"?? What about those putting nothing in the wants box at all? 

And please can we get confirmation of a "Haves" going in- because the majority of trades I'm currently looking at have a "have" in their box..... I'd really like to include it on mine as well.

 

I guess for now I'll ONLY put wants and hope people care to check lineages of what I have, for fear of being banned... poor code trades...

Edited by Nightwalkerkey

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5 minutes ago, Nightwalkerkey said:

Wow. I'm glad I read thru this. I wasn't aware some of what I was doing was against the rules.... 

 

And I have accidentally added the wrong hatchie/egg to a link before, claiming it was something else (and seen other forum users do this- must be unknowingly because they aren't one to fool the others). Which I guess I could get banned for? If anything, for posting my 'haves' in the first place. 

 

I do believe there are many more people who are correctly using it or mistakenly using it, thinking they're alright, than those trying to troll and mess it up for the rest of us.

 

I do hope we get clearer rules posted- and ban levels at least, not straight to permaban. Warnings, perhaps? I've seen a lot worse on the trading hub than an outside link or incorrect trade (I always check before accepting offers or offering on others, though I make mistakes too).

I guess for now I'll ONLY put wants and hope people care to check lineages of what I have, for fear of being banned... poor code trades...

Nah TJ said that haves are fine. 

This is the set of allows/bans I'm currently using:

Allowed

  • putting haves in the wants box
  • putting your scroll name in a dragon's name

Can get banned

  • putting any contact info in the want box from your discord name to your dragcave forum name
  • lyrics and maybe jokes
  • attempting to talk to any users, putting another user's name in the want box, saying anything like 'you're egglocked'
  • putting any form of link in the want box from a spreadsheet link to a dragcave onsite link
  • attempting to make any form of ious

Might get banned(?)

  • misleading haves like calling a CB golden wyvern a CB gold

Won't get banned but also technically not allowed

  • Linking to onsite dragcave groups
Edited by DarkEternity

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1 minute ago, DarkEternity said:

Nah TJ said that haves are fine. 

They're not bannable, but against the rules. Grey area again.

So would we be allowed to put it in the current want box and it's not being changed, or will we have haves/wants boxes separately?

 

Also still curious to whether 'free, offer dummy' is okay or not okay. I like to do that a lot, and see others doing it too. Usually the trades are fast (harder to see to be banned), but that would really suck being banned from gifting.

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1 minute ago, Nightwalkerkey said:

They're not bannable, but against the rules. Grey area again.

So would we be allowed to put it in the current want box and it's not being changed, or will we have haves/wants boxes separately?

 

Also still curious to whether 'free, offer dummy' is okay or not okay. I like to do that a lot, and see others doing it too. Usually the trades are fast (harder to see to be banned), but that would really suck being banned from gifting.

Didn't TJ say something like he's going to make a seperate haves/wants box and until it happens we can put them both in the same box? No idea about the bottom one but I've stopped gifting eggs via the hub just in case it isn't allowed.

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12 hours ago, Nightwalkerkey said:

Also still curious to whether 'free, offer dummy' is okay or not okay. I like to do that a lot, and see others doing it too. Usually the trades are fast (harder to see to be banned), but that would really suck being banned from gifting.

 

This is fine.  There's nothing wrong with 'Free for x'.

 

Quote

Might get banned(?)

  • misleading haves like calling a CB golden wyvern a CB gold

 

This won't get any moderator action against you. People can always actually click on the egg to see what it is, so there's nothing truly misleading. It just may not make you very popular. Also, newer users may just not know the terms for certain dragons. Nothing wrong with that.

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wait what.....? If I need a mate for https://dragcave.net/lineage/1YdMc (Gold LH x Gold Winged Snow Angel).....

 

I CAN put: 

- Exact Bloodswap

- Gold LH x Gold Winged Snow Angel

 

I CAN"T put: 

- mate for: 1YdMc 

- any links at all

- any reference to my scroll name or my forum account

 

*Despite* the fact that it shows up on the trade link anyway????? 

Seriously: I just pulled this off of the very first trade:

acm1923 wants: HAVE: 2nd Gen Prize Fail. WANT: 2nd Gen Prize Fail, CB Siyat eggs or hatchies (Any Color), Dino's

 

.... it says right there, acm1923. If that's not there, there's no way to track down their scroll because their username doesn't show on their dragon page. So.... can someone explain this or am I missing something.....?

 

Cheers!
C4. 

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What they meant is you cannot put your forum name up on link, if different from your scrollname, nor put any request for pm, or request not to be pm'd for that matter

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1 hour ago, cyradis4 said:

 

I CAN"T put: 

- mate for: 1YdMc 

 

 

I believe Starscream said on the Trading Hub Feedback that you can put individual codes in wants. For what that's worth :rolleyes: (read my tone)

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17 hours ago, DarkEternity said:

 

Might get banned(?)

  • misleading haves like calling a CB golden wyvern a CB gold

 

Won't get banned. Staff will close these reports.

staff should not have to police the trading hub -  its easy enough to check to make sure what you are offering on is what you are offering on. Also, mistakes can be made. I checked with TJ on this matter regarding an earlier incident.

 

@cryadis4 I see no reason you can't put "looking for a mate for Code" unless TJ says otherwise.  I think a more specific description of that desired mate might be better.

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11 hours ago, Starscream said:

I think a more specific description of that desired mate might be better.

Needs room though. So just listing codes of dragons that need mates allows you to ask for more options than describing only one or two of them.

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6 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Needs room though. So just listing codes of dragons that need mates allows you to ask for more options than describing only one or two of them.

Exactly. I think a lot of these problems stem from the character limit of the wants box.

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I think it's kind of... idk. Terrible? That something like being intentionally misleading (trying to scam people with a different type of egg) isn't bannable, but trying to do what the box says (via group links, etc etc) is...

 

I would have suspected dishonesty to lead to a permaban quicker than a group link. There's no nonmalicious reason behind that - there is for so many other things that are going on and getting people in trouble.

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5 minutes ago, Alrexwolf said:

There's no nonmalicious reason behind that

Sure there can be. Mistakes do happen. I recently traded away something that I claimed to be from the Coast (because I created that trade way past midnight and I was tired XD) while it was actually from the Forest. I might as well have accidentally put a different breed name there - same thing, really. Fact is: everyone can CHECK what is being offered. Everyone can SEE if it's actually what you describe it to be, be it the breed, the origin or the lineage. (The only thing that cannot be checked yet is the gender on ungendered things, but there are suggestions to solve that issue, too). If you don't check what you are going to buy, it's your own fault, really, on DC as well as in real life.

 

Links on the other hand can lead to something that you may not want to see (group of naughty codes perchance?) or may not be allowed to see (the forums) or ever visit (some random phishing website or somesuch).

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4 hours ago, Alrexwolf said:

I think it's kind of... idk. Terrible? That something like being intentionally misleading (trying to scam people with a different type of egg) isn't bannable, but trying to do what the box says (via group links, etc etc) is...

 

I would have suspected dishonesty to lead to a permaban quicker than a group link. There's no nonmalicious reason behind that - there is for so many other things that are going on and getting people in trouble.

its not like you cannot check before you place an offer. If what is being described is not what you see, then its easy enough not to offer.

 

And it is easily done to click the wrong egg. How often have we seen posts where someone abandoned or bit the wrong egg? Fairly often.

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I guess that's what bothers me the most about this game in general, is what it boils down to. The same thing happens with viewbombing.

 

If someone is intentionally trying to take advantage of you, or harm your account in some way, it's YOUR fault for not preventing that from happening. However, if YOU do something pretty innocuous that isn't blatantly stated to be against the rules, you receive a permanent ban from a major site feature. 

 

It seems like scammers / trolls get protection on this site, whereas people just trying to play the game get the short end of the stick and are told it is their fault if they get caught up in something. It seems... so backwards. And I know that's probably not the intention behind the rules/what's happening with stuff like this and viewbombing... but it just really, really comes off that way lately. It seems easier to be an intentionally bad person trying to dodge the rules than to be a slightly under-educated user NOT trying to evade the rules. 

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21 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

If you don't check what you are going to buy, it's your own fault, really, on DC as well as in real life.

 

Links on the other hand can lead to something that you may not want to see (group of naughty codes perchance?) or may not be allowed to see (the forums) or ever visit (some random phishing website or somesuch).

Except that is I'm pretty sure fraud is illegal IRL.

Also, your explanation simply puts it on the same levels as links - there are malicious uses and non-malicious uses. Yet one gets you banned and the other doesn't.

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Another gray area to ponder: what about putting what you DON'T want so that people don't offer it? ( "won't take new releases" , "no long lines", etc) or saying that you use decline? Technically not a want or have, but useful information + I see a lot of people doing it.

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3 minutes ago, epickitty25 said:

Another gray area to ponder: what about putting what you DON'T want so that people don't offer it? ( "won't take new releases" , "no long lines", etc) or saying that you use decline? Technically not a want or have, but useful information + I see a lot of people doing it.

I've done it before and haven't gotten in trouble for it yet (more specifically 'I use decline') because if you don't offer what I want, I want to give a heads-up on why the offer was declined

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53 minutes ago, epickitty25 said:

Except that is I'm pretty sure fraud is illegal IRL.

Go to ebay and find all those private traders who describe item X (as shown in the trade photo) as item y and then sue them. There must be millions of such offers. Wonder why all these people weren't banned from ebay yet.

 

Fact is, if you see an egg on the teleport, you can SEE if it's a fabled Gold or just a gold-like looking Golden Wyvern. If it's a hatchling or an egg. If it's 1 item or 4.

Click the egg or hatchling and you SEE if it has parents or not, and so on. It's actually quite difficult to scam a trader on DC who pays just a little attention.

 

If you see a link, you will never know what it leads to until you click it. Especially offsite links are potentially dangerous.

(I suspect that the current check simply looks for "http" - personally, I do wish it was possible if it could allow DC/DCF links, seeing how both are properly monitored and moderated.)

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13 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

 

Fact is, if you see an egg on the teleport, you can SEE if it's a fabled Gold or just a gold-like looking Golden Wyvern. If it's a hatchling or an egg. If it's 1 item or 4.

Click the egg or hatchling and you SEE if it has parents or not, and so on. It's actually quite difficult to scam a trader on DC who pays just a little attention.

 

Just as you could choose not to click on a link if you're so worried about it.

Edited by epickitty25

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1 hour ago, Dalek Raptor said:

I've done it before and haven't gotten in trouble for it yet (more specifically 'I use decline') because if you don't offer what I want, I want to give a heads-up on why the offer was declined

So apparently doing exactly what the box says, just in a link (I can provide the link here to prove it's appropriare if that's allowed here. Not to ask to be able to use it in trades in the future, as I now realize that and why links aren't allowed, but just to show that I meant absolutely no harm and that permanent restrictions are not necessary.) is misuse and worthy of a potentially permanent trade ban, but putting something that isn't a have or a want is fine? interesting.

(Btw, not the entire post is directed at the quote, as could probably be told. I do apologize if this in any way comes off as aggressive.)

Edited by epickitty25

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The main thing I'm worried about it that fact that when you're banned like this, you apparently aren't told why. Am I getting that right? I'd at least think that when you're banned, a reason as to why would be provided. Especially since this is a permaban. No explanation for why like this is...really stupid. Especially when the banned party may not even know why they were banned in the first place.

 

Since, you know, all the rules are apparently being put here. In the forums. Where only forum players can find them. RIP all non-forum players.

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8 minutes ago, animatedrose said:

The main thing I'm worried about it that fact that when you're banned like this, you apparently aren't told why. Am I getting that right? I'd at least think that when you're banned, a reason as to why would be provided. Especially since this is a permaban. No explanation for why like this is...really stupid. Especially when the banned party may not even know why they were banned in the first place.

 

Since, you know, all the rules are apparently being put here. In the forums. Where only forum players can find them. RIP all non-forum players.

Yep. Didn't get told until I posted this on the forum and got a message saying why. I also didn't get told how long the restriction was/whether it was temporary or permanent, which also bothers me. I feel like I'm at least entitled to information about what my punishment actually is (and why it is in place, like you said).

And yeah, the way everything relies on the forum is starting to really irk me, especially as someone who's been on the cave for two years but didn't join the forum until around a month ago due to being very shy and thus intimidated by this place, plus I didn't know how important the forum even was.

Edited by epickitty25

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On 8/8/2018 at 6:26 PM, Starscream said:

Just make sure you're not reporting a trade for the sake of it.

 

If you are doing a trade, I strongly urge that you look at what you are interested in to make sure that it is what you think it is.

This! VERY much this! I always make it a point to look before I offer or accept.

 

I haven't been burned,myself , but I have heard of it happening, so I am careful. 

 

THAT said, I can totally see how a misgender can happen with out any malice or intent to defraud.

If a person is out of Aeons ( entirely possible when, as in my case, you have only got four!) They may have no choice but to influence the egg and hatch it for a trade. 

THAT being the case... influences CAN and do sometimes fail ( though it is rare). I have had it happen to me with stuff that I myself influenced.... so it totally could happen without any intent to cheat on the part of the trader. Just saying, so I would hate to see someone get 'reported' for a thing that wasn't there fault.

 

Claiming that a lineaged dragon is CB, that is another matter all together and I DO check for that!

I would add to that EVEN in that case, mistakes can happen.

Edited by JavaTigress

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