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LuckyKitty

ANSWERED:Not sure why I'm not allowed to make public trades anymore?

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I just tried to make a public trade, and I've found that I can't, getting the message "Your account’s ability to create public trades and add messages to trades has been removed." I'm not sure why? I didn't think I'd broken any rules? it was fine earlier today, but just now I checked and I can't. Is there any staff that can tell me why/is there anywhere I can appeal?

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I am curious to know this myself--if someone gets trade banned, is it permanent or temporary, and for how long if temporary?  And who can someone go to for appeal?

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If you posted a link (even an on-site link!), posted song lyrics, posted a shoutout to anyone else or tried to talk to anyone else, that's all open for a trade ban. Even "have" is tentative, since it's not a want.

 

As far as I know, all bans on this website are permanent (from naming, scroll burning, etc) unless you contact staff directly and try to work something out. Hopefully TJ will understand that the trade section is an important aspect of the game and that banning users with no rules in place isn't exactly fair, but who knows. I hope you get your ability to trade back.

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Wait!  Are you saying you cannot put what you have in the want space?  Like to say it is CB or 2g, or special code? That seems extremely unfair.

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I mean... it's in a grey area right now. It's not a want, so technically speaking it is ~misuse~ of the "want," box. I agree, it seems extremely unfair. I'm really hoping TJ will clean the slate and give some guidelines or rules... or let a messaging system of some kind related to trading come in. I know that won't happen, but I can dream, haha.

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Yes, we should have a "want" space on tp link, that should be really easy to implement, and then long term, should have a scroll to scroll communication system.  But the ones that are banned should only be clear abuse, not subjective or vague.

 

Edit:  Another reason to put something you have-- if you are putting up a hatchie not yet gendered but you want to say it is precog male or female.  It is not only useful to the person posting but it helps people offering.  I have seen so many trades I would offer on if only I knew what the precog gender was

Edited by 49ER

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Please check my PM. it should have an explanation.

 

 

49er, my understanding about the messaging system is something in regards to conflict of interest with @TJ09 's employment.

 

Edited by Starscream

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As far as I know, all these can get you banned

  • putting any contact info in the want box from your discord name to your dragcave forum name
  • lyrics and maybe jokes
  • attempting to talk to any users, putting another user's name in the want box, saying anything like 'you're egglocked'
  • putting any form of link in the want box from a spreadsheet link to a dragcave onsite link to a dragcave groups link
  • attempting to make any form of ious

Things I'd definitely avoid doing

  • misleading haves like calling a CB golden wyvern a CB gold
  • putting haves in the want section unless it's clearly labelled someone said it can also get you banned

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1 minute ago, DarkEternity said:
  • putting haves in the want section unless it's clearly labelled someone said it can also get you banned

putting haves will not get you banned.

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Just now, Starscream said:

putting haves will not get you banned.

Okay!

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This is an example of why we need clear rules listed somewhere on the site itself. I'm sorry to hear that you lost your trading ability. Hopefully you can figure this all out soon and possibly get it back.

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1 minute ago, DarkEternity said:

Okay!

Just what you have (helps with deciding if its of interest) and what you want in return.

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9 minutes ago, The Dragoness said:

This is an example of why we need clear rules listed somewhere on the site itself. I'm sorry to hear that you lost your trading ability. Hopefully you can figure this all out soon and possibly get it back.

 

I agree. The rules need to be clear on the front page of Trading Hub, in my opinion.

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Edit:  this question answered on another thread, but still want 2nd question answered

 

And the trade hub ban is permanent, not temporary?  I have not seen a mod say if it is or not yet

Edited by 49ER

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10 minutes ago, 49ER said:

What about contact information?  If you have a different forum name than scrollname, can't you put PM forumname?

 

And the trade hub ban is permanent, not temporary?  I have not seen a mod say if it is or not yet

yeah, PM X needs to be avoided.

 

I am trying to find out what is up with the trade hub ban - as ar as I understand it should be just posting in  the wants.

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Ok one last question.  Can I say "you can PM me"?  I mean, people do PM me anyway if they want to, and can see my forum name and scrollname are the same, and I don't mind

Edited by 49ER

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3 minutes ago, 49ER said:

Ok one last question.  Can I say "you can PM me"?  I mean, people do PM me anyway if they want to, and can see my forum name and scrollname are the same, and I don't mind

No. Avoid anything that is not either a want or a have.

Edited by Starscream

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Ok well....the rules have to be clearly stated on Trade hub then.  Seriously.  If someone doesn't have a forum acct and/or doesn't read it a lot they would not know better on some of these rulings.

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Just now, 49ER said:

Ok well....the rules have to be clearly stated on Trade hub then.  Seriously.  If someone doesn't have a forum acct and/or doesn't read it a lot they would not know better on some of these rulings.

 

Quote

Wants

Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for.

Warning: Misuse of this text may result in disciplinary action, such as loss of ability to create public trades.

 

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Ok well....the rules have to be clearly stated on Trade hub then.  Seriously.  If someone doesn't have a forum acct and/or doesn't read it a lot they would not know better on some of these rulings.

 

I don't think that is sufficient to explain what is not allowed, like PMs or contact information--perhaps if we had a space for Have and another space for Contact information, that would help.

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8 minutes ago, 49ER said:

I don't think that is sufficient to explain what is not allowed, like PMs or contact information--perhaps if we had a space for Have and another space for Contact information, that would help.

 

I think it's pretty self-explanatory. If individual things that are a 'no' were listed, people would just find something outside that list to do and then point to the list and say 'it doesn't say not to'.

 

And the point is that there should be no contact information - TJ is pretty firm on no on-site communications.

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That may be true, but people who are completely innocent and are not doing anything abusive, could end up being caught in some ban snare, so the rules should be clearly stated at top of trade hub.  What the admins think is bannable and what the users think would be bannable could be waaaay different.  For example I am very surrprised by what I am seeing here, but at least I had the advantage of reading this and asking quesitons.  Not everyone would know about this.

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I agree that this needs to be clearly laid out. No where in the TOS or anything does it say that asking to PM for a full list of wants is not allowed. Fortunately I had someone warn me, as I had no idea that anything like that was not allowable.

 

Quote

Warning: Misuse of this text may result in disciplinary action, such as loss of ability to create public trades.

 

What constitutes "misuse" is not clear. I was completely blown away when someone warned me about this help thread, as it was not even remotely clear to me based on anything in the news section of the forum OR the Terms and Conditions. One would expect that blurb about misuse to be about using the input area to be rude/inappropriate or otherwise break site rules as they are listed in the Terms and Conditions. 

 

Quote

Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for.

 

To me (and clearly to many users, because that kind of thing has been really common in the Trade Hub), asking to PM for a full list of wants, linking to a forum post wishlist, or linking to an on-site group of dragons that need mates seems like a great way to help others understand what types of offers they are looking for. That is exactly as I took it. If people are going to be banned over asking to PM or for on-site links, that needs to be patently clear BEFORE people get banned. For anyone not looking specifically at this thread or having been warned by another user, they are going to have no idea that such things are not allowable because it is all within site, especially since it was quite common at the opening of the Trading Hub to link to things like on site groups. Given that off-site linking is perfectly allowable on the forums, one could easily argue that posting an off-site wishlist (which DOES help others understand what types of offers they are looking for) seems perfectly logical and safe to do. This is especially true since the Trade Hub was touted as a replacement for Dragon Market, which asked for some kind of way to contact the user (and was typically in the forum of a DC forum post or PM). Anyone coming from there is going to be of the mindset that it is perfectly normal and useful to link to an on-site group or forum trade post/wishlist. The fact that multiple people had no idea about this (at the very least myself, the original poster, and 49ER) shows that it is not clear. Another person thought that putting 'haves' would get a ban (which I certainly would have thought was more likely to get a ban than a link to an on-site group that needs mates, as the group is showing what the trader wants whereas 'haves' is not), which shows that the whole thing is muddy as to what is and is not allowable.

 

At the very least it needs to be in news section of the forum. No one is going to know to look for rules in suggestions or help sections of a forum. 

 

Quote

The terms of this agreement may be modified at any time. All changes to this page (as well as the purchasing policies) will be announced via the Dragon Cave Forum. Users will not be individually notified.

 

"Announced" makes it seem that any changes will be in the news (especially since the LINK in the Terms and Conditions goes to the news page), which is where most people are going to assume rules will go. Having read the TOS when I joined, this is WHERE I go for news about rules changes because it was laid out as the place to see them. It should also go on the terms and conditions page.

 

It doesn't have to be an exact list of "not this and not that", but it is not at all clear that people are going to get banned over giving a more complete list of wants. 😕 

 

Even TJ's policy about communication is not clear if someone is not following the suggestions forum. In the TOS, all it says is:

 

Quote

Interactions with other users

All interactions with other users must be willful. Bothering other users to return abandoned eggs or posting the eggs, hatchlings, or adult dragons without a user's permission are prohibited.

 

There is nothing not willful about someone choosing to PM someone, choosing to go look at their scroll, choosing to look at an on-site link. This also does not give any indication that providing such information in the trades is against the rules. No where in the rules is it clear, especially to someone who is either not on the forums or not looking through the suggestions/help sections. Given that many people only use the forum for the announcements, for trades, or another very specific area, it is unlikely that a large portion of the userbase is going to see these rules.

 

Most people WANT to follow the rules, but if we don't know what they are, they are pretty hard to follow. All we are asking for is to make it clearer so more people are not banned for something that seems completely innocent and within the rules of the Terms and Conditions. It is fine if those ARE the rules; we just want to have the rules be clear. Every other rule on the site and forum is quite clear and logical. "Giving an inappropriate name to your hatchling may result in disciplinary action" is a warning we get when naming dragons. A typical user is going to understand what inappropriate means. Describing dragons comes with a whole page of what is allowable

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31 minutes ago, 49ER said:

That may be true, but people who are completely innocent and are not doing anything abusive, could end up being caught in some ban snare, so the rules should be clearly stated at top of trade hub.  What the admins think is bannable and what the users think would be bannable could be waaaay different.  For example I am very surrprised by what I am seeing here, but at least I had the advantage of reading this and asking quesitons.  Not everyone would know about this.

To help us develop better guidelines, can you explain what you find unclear about "Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for?" That is exactly what the site asks you to provide, and outside of a singular exception ("haves" are a clear missing bit in the feature) nothing else is allowed.

 

So to expand on @DarkEternity's list, here's what you can put in the box:

  • Wants ("[helping] others understand what types of offers you are looking for")
  • Haves (for now: specifically "describing what you are offering." This is technically against the rules-as-written, but will not get you blocked from trading)

Here's what you should not put in the box:

  • Literally anything else.

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I understand that, but to maybe understand what you are looking for, one might say PM me for a list or look at this list on my forum wishlist.  Not that I ever look at those, but I guess if I seriously wanted something maybe I would.  

And as stated above by Ribombee, I understood this to be a replacement of the Dragonmarket on EATW and that site 1) had a CB indicator on the things you had CB, so one would not have to click everything and had an area to expand on what you want, as well as providing contact information.  

That makes more sense then the multiple trades where people's wants are "I dunno, offer something, but I probably will keep it anyway"

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