Viewing Dragon Species

[Tbelle2001]

So, I've been focused on filling out my encyclopedia. I've done this through the wild dragon page and through visiting other user's pages. However, most of these users have multiple pages and going back and forth quickly becomes a tedious process. So, here's my suggestion, let users have the option of filtering a different users dragons to include only one species. I realize that some players may not like this, so, a way to combat this would be to also have a switch in the account settings that allows this (like accepting help).

[jostensminyard]

This is actually a really neat idea, especially with being able to toggle it off/on 

[Fuzzbucket]

The ability to sort other people's scrolls has come up many times. (I'm not wild about it, I have to say.)

 

Here's one such thread:

 

But if you go to most scrolls they are sorted in some way - mine is by breed but not in the "usual " order; others do sort by breed. Also if you take each dragon by lineage view, you can get a LOT by clicking on ancestors of the breed you want.

 

ETA you can also simply use google.

 

Use:

 

site:dragcave.net and then a quote (in quotation marks) from the dragons description, like "Few dragons embody serenity and potential quite as perfectly as Avatars of Creation."

 

And then you'll need to click to view all the others that are "very similar". I just went for that and got two full pages of hits.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[HeatherMarie]

If there is a switch to allow it (ie, the default is *off* and you have to deliberately change it to allow it) then I guess it's not as big a deal, but I definitely do not like the idea of someone being able to sort my scroll any way they want. Many users have their scroll sorted a certain way for specific reasons and I very much doubt that a ton of people would be okay with other people sorting their scroll to suit them.

 

Edit: If this suggestion is simply to fill out your Encyclopedia faster, hatcheries are a great place for doing that, as well as the Encyclopedia Helpers thread in Site Discussions. Actually, just going through that thread I was able to unlock a good 90% of the entire Encyclopedia. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by HeatherMarie

[Fuzzbucket]

3 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

If there is a switch to allow it (ie, the default is *off* and you have to deliberately change it to allow it) then I guess it's not as big a deal, but I definitely do not like the idea of someone being able to sort my scroll any way they want. Many users have their scroll sorted a certain way for specific reasons and I very much doubt that a ton of people would be okay with other people sorting their scroll to suit them.

 

Edit: If this suggestion is simply to fill out your Encyclopedia faster, hatcheries are a great place for doing that, as well as the Encyclopedia Helpers thread in Site Discussions. Actually, just going through that thread I was able to unlock a good 90% of the entire Encyclopedia. 

 

As I said - I'm not wild about it either. At least until we can hide growing things (not fog them, just have them no show on our scroll), as we can now hide adults.

[Ruby Eyes]

52 minutes ago, Tbelle2001 said:

So, I've been focused on filling out my encyclopedia.

For the rarer species, this thread may be useful: https://forums.dragcave.net/topic/164308-encyclopedia-helpers/

 

[The Dragoness]

I'm not a huge of fan this either. I know there are some people who actually "bury" certain dragons in unusual spots on their scrolls to keep them hidden. I guess a way to switch it on/off would help, but I personally would never use it. I don't want my scroll searched for valuable eggs that I "might want to trade" (yes, I've really been PM'd over something so silly).

 

As others have said, hatcheries are a great place to fill out the encyclopedia. You can help dragons hatch while getting the views you need.

[HeatherMarie]

43 minutes ago, The Dragoness said:

I'm not a huge of fan this either. I know there are some people who actually "bury" certain dragons in unusual spots on their scrolls to keep them hidden. I guess a way to switch it on/off would help, but I personally would never use it. I don't want my scroll searched for valuable eggs that I "might want to trade" (yes, I've really been PM'd over something so silly).

 

As others have said, hatcheries are a great place to fill out the encyclopedia. You can help dragons hatch while getting the views you need.

 

Yes, this. I don't know if it happens as much anymore now that we have the monthly raffles, but I know that was a problem back when Prizes were only given out a few times for holiday events... Winners would get bombarded with PMs begging for 2nd-gens and such. A workaround is to simply hide your whole scroll, but that's really not a great workaround when there are other dragons that you don't mind showing off (plus the fact that hiding your scroll makes it impossible to add it to most hatcheries, so you have to constantly unhide it...). So yeah, for people who have things that are considered extremely valuable, they might have those things 'buried' and not want random users being able to sort their scroll differently in order to find them.

 

Fuzz brought up another good point. Personally I have all my growing things at the top of my scroll, but I do know a few users who put their growing things farther back specifically so they aren't immediately visible to every single person who clicks on their scroll... Allowing strangers to sort your scroll however they want would mean much easier access to those growing things.

[Chaos Rider]

We have a drop down menu that lets us temporarily change the order that we view the dragons on our scrolls (without affecting our normal sort order). What about something like that when we view other peoples scrolls? Nothing changes about how the other person's scroll is sorted, only we would see the temporary rearrangement. But as others have said the ability to not show growing things on your scroll would be handy if it were to happen

 

I tried google it only gave me 5 results. Also despite searching for the hatchlings description all I got were adults

[HeatherMarie]

3 hours ago, Chaos Rider said:

We have a drop down menu that lets us temporarily change the order that we view the dragons on our scrolls (without affecting our normal sort order). What about something like that when we view other peoples scrolls? Nothing changes about how the other person's scroll is sorted, only we would see the temporary rearrangement. But as others have said the ability to not show growing things on your scroll would be handy if it were to happen

 

I tried google it only gave me 5 results. Also despite searching for the hatchlings description all I got were adults

 

That's exactly what's been suggested before, in the thread Fuzz linked to and elsewhere... And there are still the same objections. People sort their scroll certain ways for reasons, and not all those reasons are purely for their own benefit, many users sort their scroll a specific way with the knowledge that other users will see it that way. I don't want someone going to *my* scroll and sorting things however the heck they want, I want them to see it the way *I* chose. It's my scroll, I should be able to control how it's seen by others. 

[Fuzzbucket]

👆👆👆

What she said.My scroll, my sorting.

 

There are loads of growing things to view in hatcheries. There's the encyclopaedia thread. There is google (sorry it didn't work out for you, Chaos Rider, but I got hundreds of hits when I was completing my encyclopaedia, even for things like dino hatchies.) And LOADS of scrolls are sorted by breed anyway.

[pinkgothic]

I still find all of the arguments against allowing people to sort other people's scrolls entirely unconvincing, and would rather other solutions to the problem - or, if we must, make it so that this feature is opt-out optional (because opt-in optional, like with viewing user-approved descriptions, is a pointless endeavour - in this case, the people who want to opt-out out scroll sorting will definitely know to change the setting), even if that makes this less likely to be implemented.

 

If you don't want your dragons found, why not hide your entire scroll? I'm not at all trying to be flippant here - it seems dangerous to assume someone won't wade through all pages of your scroll, or get told by someone who knows, or indeed just find the dragon with a search of the right keywords on their search engine of choice, if you really don't want people to find a specific dragon of yours. (And if you consider hiding all to be impractical, why not constructively suggest that you like the feature of scroll sorting as long as it comes in a bundle update with e.g. groups that can be made invisible to others on your main scroll? This would also solve the problem, without hampering people who badly want to let others use this feature on their own scrolls.)

 

And the argument on aesthetics seems really odd to me - if someone is sorting your scroll, they are expressing that they don't like the way your scroll is ordered. It's a conscious choice that they're not going to make by accident. I don't even use the same site skin you (generic you) do - your scroll looks very, very different to me than it does to you. Your lineages look very, very different to me than they do to you.

 

So you are not controlling, not even now, how your scroll looks to others. Why is the sort order any different? Especially since that would be a single-scroll, temporary decision, rather than the permanent, always-on decision that the site skin is. Again, not trying to be flippant here, I am just honestly baffled.

 

I'm really miffed this keeps getting shot down. I doubt I'd use the feature all that often, but I would really like if people could sort my scroll however it suits them. I've got a peculiar way to order it that suits my own aesthetics, but it might make it more difficult for people to find the mates they're looking for if I'm offering to breed something from my scroll, or someone referred them to me for breeding (which is behaviour I definitely want to encourage when it relates to me, not discourage).

 

So yes, ❤️ I'd like to have this feature, so my scroll can be sorted or filtered by people however they like it.

Edited June 28, 2018 by pinkgothic

[HeatherMarie]

41 minutes ago, pinkgothic said:

I still find all of the arguments against allowing people to sort other people's scrolls entirely unconvincing, and would rather other solutions to the problem - or, if we must, make it so that this feature is opt-out optional (because opt-in optional, like with viewing user-approved descriptions, is a pointless endeavour - in this case, the people who want to opt-out out scroll sorting will definitely know to change the setting), even if that makes this less likely to be implemented.

 

If you don't want your dragons found, why not hide your entire scroll? I'm not at all trying to be flippant here - it seems dangerous to assume someone won't wade through all pages of your scroll, or get told by someone who knows, or indeed just find the dragon with a search of the right keywords on their search engine of choice, if you really don't want people to find a specific dragon of yours. (And if you consider hiding all to be impractical, why not constructively suggest that you like the feature of scroll sorting as long as it comes in a bundle update with e.g. groups that can be made invisible to others on your main scroll? This would also solve the problem, without hampering people who badly want to let others use this feature on their own scrolls.)

 

And the argument on aesthetics seems really odd to me - if someone is sorting your scroll, they are expressing that they don't like the way your scroll is ordered. It's a conscious choice that they're not going to make by accident. I don't even use the same site skin you (generic you) do - your scroll looks very, very different to me than it does to you. Your lineages look very, very different to me than they do to you.

 

So you are not controlling, not even now, how your scroll looks to others. Why is the sort order any different? Especially since that would be a single-scroll, temporary decision, rather than the permanent, always-on decision that the site skin is. Again, not trying to be flippant here, I am just honestly baffled.

 

I'm really miffed this keeps getting shot down. I doubt I'd use the feature all that often, but I would really like if people could sort my scroll however it suits them. I've got a peculiar way to order it that suits my own aesthetics, but it might make it more difficult for people to find the mates they're looking for if I'm offering to breed something from my scroll, or someone referred them to me for breeding (which is behaviour I definitely want to encourage when it relates to me, not discourage).

 

So yes, ❤️ I'd like to have this feature, so my scroll can be sorted or filtered by people however they like it.

 

Let's see if I can answer some of this, from my pov/experience:

 

First of all, unless there is an announcement *on-site*, it MUST be opt-IN. How are users going to know to opt out if they don't know this new thing was implemented? No, when it comes to something as important as control over how your own scroll is presented, it *must* be opt-in. 

 

Hiding your entire scroll is *not* the answer, to any issue really. Yes, right now it is the *only* answer to some issues, but that doesn't mean it should be the go-to response for concerns about suggestions. As I mentioned in an earlier posts, people sort their scroll specific ways for *reasons*, and that really has nothing to do with hiding a scroll or not. Many users *want* people to see certain dragons first when they visit their scroll (for instance, many people use dragon names as a 'welcome to my scroll' sort of thing, as well as mentioning their forum name). Many users sort their dragons in ways that they *want* people to see. Why should other people's wants trump my own when it comes to my own scroll? In addition, as I mentioned before, hiding your scroll makes it impossible to use most hatcheries, which means every single time you want to add eggs to a hatchery you have to unhide, add, rehide... It gets very very tedious. 

 

As for the 'bundle update' idea, I don't understand why invisible groups would negate the want to have control over how your own scroll is viewed by others. Are you saying I should be forced to spend tons of time making new groups and setting them to 'invisible' just so other people can't sort my scroll in ways I don't want? That doesn't make sense to me at all. 

 

Why does it matter that some random user doesn't like the way my scroll is sorted? It's MY scroll. I'm not allowed to go into someone's house and rearrange their furniture because I don't like how it looks, why should random users be allowed to rearrange my scroll because they don't like how it looks? Why should I care if they don't like how it looks? It's not *for* them, it's my scroll, it's for me. 

 

Also, while you may want to encourage people asking you to breed for them, not everyone does. Many people do not want random people asking them to breed dragons from their scroll to give away. Why should I support something just because it makes it easier for people to hunt for *my* dragons in order to ask me to do them a favor? If you want to encourage people asking you to breed, make a group with your best-lineaged stuff and link to that in your sig.

 

Honestly, as long as it is opt-IN, I don't really care, since I can just not bother with it. But I really don't understand this idea that random people should be able to decide how they look at *my* scroll, against my wishes.

[Fuzzbucket]

14 hours ago, pinkgothic said:

 

And the argument on aesthetics seems really odd to me - if someone is sorting your scroll, they are expressing that they don't like the way your scroll is ordered.

 

 

And ? Why would I care ? It's my scroll, not theirs. Others would only be sorting it their way to see what they could find. That's a bit like saying you don't like the fact that all my sci fi books are in the bedroom, not with my other fiction books so you didn't know I had any, and so didn't think to ask to borrow one.

 

I know which dragons I am happy to breed for others. Surely it's better that they ask if I can breed them (whatever) and then I can find which I have that I am prepared to use for that. The person who actually went through the lineages of ALL my shimmers and provided a list of about 60 they would like me to breed for them admittedly showed enterprise, but...

Edited June 29, 2018 by Fuzzbucket
my spellcheck allowed all sorts of typos yesterday...

[RainDear]

If someone wants me to breed for them, the least they could do is search my scroll to find the parents they want. Why should they be able to just pick the breeds and choose from that? Why should anything be made just to make breeding requests easier for people wanting something from me? If you don't like the way I sort my scroll, go elsewhere.

 

When I was finding Zombies to unlock my encyclopedia, I went through numerous scrolls page by page, as did most of us. Why are you so special that you shouldn't have to actually do the necessary work?

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, raindear said:

If someone wants me to breed for them, the least they could do is search my scroll to find the parents they want. Why should they be able to just pick the breeds and choose from that? Why should anything be made just to make breeding requests easier for people wanting something from me? If you don't like the way I sort my scroll, go elsewhere.

 

When I was finding Zombies to unlock my encyclopedia, I went through numerous scrolls page by page, as did most of us. Why are you so special that you shouldn't have to actually do the necessary work?

 

Yesssss. When I was unlocking the majority of my Encyclopedia I opened multiple large scrolls from long-time players and literally spent *hours* going through each page looking for the breeds I needed. It took me a long, long time, but to me it was worth it. If unlocking the Encyclopedia is 'worth it' to someone, they will do it regardless of the 'hoops' they have to jump through. Going through scrolls page by page, sitting at hatcheries for hours to find the eggs/hatchies they need, using Google... There are many different ways to do that. If it's important to you, do those things. Don't try to dictate how *my* scroll is seen by others just to make things more convenient for you.

[Ruby Eyes]

Well ... this needs to be fleshed out, because on its own, I'd be against this. However, I could imagine allowing temp-sort by viewers (by NOT hiding all my adults) if the following would also work:

 

- being able to hide all members of a specific group (so I could hide only the dragons I DO NOT want people to see, either because they are special and I'd be swamped with requests, or because they are for a personal project of some sort, or whatever other reason you or I could think of)

- being able to hide my scroll's creatures - including the little ones - while still showing the highlighted groups which could then be temp-sortable by viewers. Right now hiding your scroll also hides badges, highlighted groups - EVERYTHING.

- being able to hide ONLY the growing creatures (NOT fog!)

 

Basically, this would mean re-working some details and adding options in certain places.

 

Account Settings:

Add [_] allow viewers to temporarily re-sort your scroll (visible/effective for them only)

Add [_] hide growing things

Add [_] hide all creatures, keep scroll visible (badges, highlighted groups)
 

Group Settings:

Add [_] allow viewers to temporarily re-sort this group (visible/effective for them only)

Add (_) hide members of this group from view

(as a fourth visibility option under highlighted, public and private) - might be a conflict with dragons that are in both a "hiding" group and a highlighted one though so maybe this one wouldn't really work ...
 

Of course, TJ has already expressed not being a fan of more options, so I don't expect any of the above to ever happen ...

[Chaos Rider]

@Fuzzbucket @HeatherMarie I understand now why you don't want people rearranging your scroll for viewing purposes but I still don't agree with it. I don't mind if someone wants to sort my scroll for viewing if it helped them unlock an encyclopedia entry faster for instance. What I would object to is if it actually changed the order the order of my scroll. When I first read this thread I thought people were objecting to a 'permanent' change in scroll order and posted and idea for how it could be temporary