Abandoned List

[Fuzzbucket]

I can live with it how it is. I think a rejected list - however named - will cause more harm than not.

 

I think voting for what is to be released is a can of worms that should be kept FIRMLY closed. Canvassing, bribery and "support my dragon or I will view bomb yours" and the like - ugh.

[danicast]

I can live with it how it is. I think a rejected list - however named - will cause more harm than not.

 

I think voting for what is to be released is a can of worms that should be kept FIRMLY closed. Canvassing, bribery and "support my dragon or I will view bomb yours" and the like - ugh.

I fully agreed.

[AnanoKimi]

God are the people here really that awful that they can't take a loss or play fair when talking about a release everyone can enjoy? .__.

I think in that same suggestion someone mentioned that at minimum the type of dragon to be released should be voted on like eastern or western or etc, to help TJ narrow down the options and as such hopefully move things along a little better. Who knows.

 

So many cans of worms I see that can't be touched lest we release an evil just as bad if not worse than Pandora's box, what are we coming to~

[Fiona]

There are other problems with voting that have nothing to do with people's response to losing.

 

First of all, if TJ were to pick the dragons available to be voted on, he'd of course only offer dragons that were up to cave standards. I don't think there are as many on the completed list that fit that criteria as people think. Then he'd have to make sure the code was in place for them. If he's going to do all that work, and they're all cave ready, why vote? He might just as well queue them up for actual release. So having him pick things to vote on doesn't seem like a workable option.

 

If the users pick what's available to vote for you run into the problem of a fair and workable way to pick the actual favorites. We saw from the for-fun voting that was done recently that it's not all that simple. It would have to be "blind" - as in, the artist credits hidden so you don't think "I like X's work, let's vote for this one." Or X coming in and saying "If you vote for mine I'll breed you rares!" Or the other side of that same coin that fuzz posted. To be honest, I don't really think that's a actual danger, but to be as fair as possible the voting would still need to be blind.

 

Then the next issue with that is there's no way for the users to really evaluate whether TJ considers their choice as up to cave standards. He's certainly not going to release something he doesn't feel is up to par just because the users vote for it. As I said, I don't think there are as many on the completed list up to his standards as some might think. There's probably a reason they're still sitting there after all these months/years. He's also not going to release something that has artists missing who haven't signed the agreement.

 

As for an "abandoned list" - I would like to see some designation that a concept can't be released because artists have gone missing. I just don't know what that would be.

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't think there are as many on the completed list up to his standards as some might think. There's probably a reason they're still sitting there after all these months/years.

This. I'm sorry to say that some of those dragon clearly are not up to scratch. And I would not want to be the one to come out and say so... I think it is probably better that they sit quietly till they fade away.

[AnanoKimi]

This is all so complicated. This also makes me think if so many concepts are not up to part why are we still dishing out so many? As well as this whole one man show seems to be making things so much more complicated than it should be since TJ has to code, decide, implement, etc, etc, its more work than it seemingly worth and it leaves us waiting and wondering what is up to part and when will we know. It also feels a tad ... I cant think of a better word than insulting... to let a concept sit there if its not up to standard. its best to remove them but again with how busy he is and everything that needs to get done he cant go and sift through em all and remove the ones that arent good enough...

 

I really think he needs a co owner or someone to help with the decisions... but thats just me and I'm off topic.

 

All in all then I feel like this suggestion is moot. We can personally sift through concepts and check to see what artists were/are involved and see if they are still active and such and personally do all the work if this seems like to much of a hassle to be done otherwise. With that being the case and us having the ability to personally identify which concepts have missing artists and the ability to contact them to see if we can revamp/redo the concept then there is no point to this suggestion :3

[Fuzzbucket]

Why so many are dished out - because we are all allowed to suggest and invite spriters and so on. I wouldn't have it any other way - but it will always mean loads of stuff is put up there that will never be released. But it also means some awesome dragons ARE created by people here.

 

I don't think TJ needs a co-owner, but if he finds it all too much - he can do whatever HE thinks necessary to deal with that. Only he knows if it is a strain on him.

[AnanoKimi]

Yeah. It was a suggestion. But yeah like I said considering we are able to sift through and find those completed concepts we feel need some dusting and working I think then I would agree with Socks view on how this would only add more work. TJ will get to the concepts as he can and we have access to all those completed concepts so yeah~

 

:3 With that being said I should go back to drawing/spriting

[Syphoneira]

Just wondering, mightn't TJ perhaps like things to be in a bit of confusion with dragons wordlessly removed from an overflowing Completed so as to make it less likely that people will be able to figure out which dragons were removed however many months earlier for actual Release?

 

It's a lot harder for people to recall/sort out/notice when and which specific straws were plucked out of a huge stack than a small, neat pile...

[olympe]

First of all, if TJ were to pick the dragons available to be voted on, he'd of course only offer dragons that were up to cave standards. I don't think there are as many on the completed list that fit that criteria as people think. Then he'd have to make sure the code was in place for them. If he's going to do all that work, and they're all cave ready, why vote? He might just as well queue them up for actual release. So having him pick things to vote on doesn't seem like a workable option.

(bold by me)

 

Well, obviously, not everything is up to cave standards. I could name a few concepts, too. However, I still think that a list of stuff that's not up to cave standards and the points where a dragon or concept is lacking would be very helpful. There are a number of really gorgeous sprites out there that TJ might not consider even remotely acceptable because they might be too cute, too colorful, two pixels too large in one direction, too much animal and too little dragon or other things that will help prevent similar concepts from being made. This might save a lot of work for the artists involved, too. Or help us create concepts and sprites that are up to cave standards. Of course, such a rejected list would have to be made with the consent of the involved artists. Nobody should feel called out due to this.

 

(I also distinctly remember the "Dovewings" being in the sprite guidelines for ages as a good example for a blend of dragon and animal - and only years later where they removed from both the guidelines and the completed list because TJ considered them to be too much animal and too little dragon. Imagine how many other concepts were made with that problem because the guidelines were wrong!)

 

Now, regarding the bolded part of the quote - why would TJ have to put in all the coding before people could vote on their favorites? He could give us everything he deems cave-worthy from the completed list without any coding involved and simply release the winners within the year (or so).

Edited March 10, 2015 by olympe

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh geez - PLEASE let's not start voting for dragons. Voting for those trees was awful enough.

[olympe]

I think that there's a big difference.

 

First of all, you'd vote on stuff that you want on DC.

Second, the number of things to vote for will be significantly lower, as there are way fewer dragons than trees. Plus, TJ would probably only let us vote on some of them: those he deems cave-worthy.

Third, you've got something to gain from voting, namely your favorite dragon(s).

Fourth, there will be more variety. Most trees could be placed in one of several categories - katamari (sp?), blue & silver, gold / gold & red, rainbow, themed (nutcracker wedding etc.), traditional. And most trees of one category looked very much alike, with the exception of the themed trees. The dragons, however, look very different to me in various respects (color, shape, pose, kind of dragon). So there's less of the "Haven't I already seen that one?" phenomenon.

[Slaskia]

I think that there's a big difference.

 

First of all, you'd vote on stuff that you want on DC.

Second, the number of things to vote for will be significantly lower, as there are way fewer dragons than trees. Plus, TJ would probably only let us vote on some of them: those he deems cave-worthy.

Third, you've got something to gain from voting, namely your favorite dragon(s).

Fourth, there will be more variety. Most trees could be placed in one of several categories - katamari (sp?), blue & silver, gold / gold & red, rainbow, themed (nutcracker wedding etc.), traditional. And most trees of one category looked very much alike, with the exception of the themed trees. The dragons, however, look very different to me in various respects (color, shape, pose, kind of dragon). So there's less of the "Haven't I already seen that one?" phenomenon.

How would you negate the people going around 'begging/bribing' people to vote on their concept? It happened with the tree contest (maybe not so much the bribing part there), it will surely happen in this case.

 

I didn't like how the voting for the trees happened for the same reason I wouldn't like voting on which dragon to release: art is subjective. There are a some concepts I can't help but think 'how did that make it on the completed list'? Others I can't wait/crossing my fingers to be released. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if at least one person thinks at least one of my concepts don't belong on the list.

 

(and wasn't the Dovewings concept removed because the artist pulled of her work, rather than it being 'too animal'?)

 

That said, I would like some feedback on why some things didn't make the cut.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Slaskia

[Fuzzbucket]

How would you negate the people going around 'begging/bribing' people to vote on their concept? It happened with the tree contest (maybe not so much the bribing part there), it will surely happen in this case.

 

I didn't like how the voting for the trees happened for the same reason I wouldn't like voting on which dragon to release: art is subjective. There are a some concepts I can't help but think 'how did that make it on the completed list'? Others I can't wait/crossing my fingers to be released. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if at least one person thinks at least one of my concepts don't belong on the list.

 

(and wasn't the Dovewings concept removed because the artist pulled of her work, rather than it being 'too animal'?)

 

That said, I would like some feedback on why some things didn't make the cut.

This is exactly what I was thinking but was too polite to say today. PLEASE no voting.

[danicast]

This is exactly what I was thinking but was too polite to say today. PLEASE no voting.

Voting is impractical (if TJ is going to choose, let's say, 10 dragons to people vote, why not choose 10 dragons to release and end of story?), it will cause too much rage and tons and tons of unnecessary drama: "Why that dragon was rejected? Why nobody voted for this beautiful perfect dragon? What is wrong with that sprite? Why everybody voted in that dragon and not in this one?" and so on so on so on. We can see tons of drama in everyday threads and in events, imagine in a voting process to pick the dragons which will be the chosen ones.

 

I think that ignorance is a bliss. Nobody ever complained about the complete list exactly because nobody ever made a "rejected" list, so people don't know if those dragons are rejected or not and keep hoping that one day they can be released into the cave - when in fact, that will never happen but only TJ knows that, because he is the only one who knows which dragons have conditions to be released, so everybody is happy, peaceful and continue making new dragons.

[Ha-Ki]

No support for a rejected list, but I see how an abandoned list with art that can't be released due to formal reasons (spriter inactive) can be useful.