Ideas for Alts

[Vhale]

In a suggestion post... somewhere. TJ mentioned he'd be open to cool ideas for dragons to alt. I wasn't sure if this would be a BSA thread or a Suggestion thread, but decided on this. But, I thought I'd try posting this to see if we could think of things. Whether or not any of our ideas take lots of coding is for TJ to worry about. You never know what might be easy or not. Let's just have some loose ideas

 

We have dragons that have the same egg description but differ from biome to biome as utterly different breeds. I think the next step would be have the same breed, but different colors. IE, the Equus dragon could have 3 varieties in each biome and 1 bred.

 

We have hybrid dragons.

And we have alts with varying degrees of rarity.

 

We have dragons that change breed based on time of day. This is another we could take a step further in simply having the alt hatch at different times of day. Possibly at different times of the hour if we wanted it to be trickier or smaller windows. Would that just annoy people?

 

We have Luminas that are almost hybrids in that they change color when bred with certain dragons. But it's temporary. Again, we could take that further and make it permanent. IE, we have a couple dragons with fire on their backs that come in various colors like Auroral Flareback. What if the fire changed color when bred with an elemental dragon like electric or water? It might be very fun to be able to change an entire lineages colors on a whim.

 

Lastly, it might be interesting to have BSAs affect dragon color. Either a specific BSA or existing ones. IE, if incubate was used, some species, gender is determined by temperature and we have lots of dimorphic species. So if incubate was used, a 90% chance the egg will hatch female for a breed where that will influence the color, ie nebulas. Or, simply have a duller or brighter form hatch if the bsa is used.

 

I think that's all I have for now. Whew!

Thoughts?

 

• KageSora: Alt depending on hour a dragon is bred

• TheCompleteAnimorph: Alt depending on time left when hatching

• Lythiaren: Challenge Mode, specific UV ratio for alt

• Vhale: Dimorphic Influence, chance of female being male colored and vice versa

• Cinnamin Draconna: BSA that increases chance of alt

 

Olympe's Synopsis

Other, breeding-based things that could cause alts:

• Biome of the parent of the other breed. (Like with stripes, just that it's not the color affecting the outcome. Like this: If you breed X with a parent from the volcano biome, you'd get X in the volcano version. If you bred a X to a parent from the coast biome, you'd get an X in the coast version...)
• Secondary/tertiary color of the parent of the other breed: We have a couple of bioluminescent dragon concepts with various colors for the glowy markings. Why not make the marking color of the offspring depend on the secondary color of the parent of the other breed? Like, you breed your biolum to a neotropical - the biolum offspring would have yellow markings (like the neo). Or you breed it to a skywing, and you'd get a biolum with white markings (like the skywing's belly). ...
• Seasonal differences: Maybe we could have skywings with golden bellies for Christmas season. (According to the conceptor's description in the wiki, the bellies are based on metal the skywings eat or something like that.) Or bright green terraes for spring (like you leaves)...
• Stripe-like, depending on the other parent's primary color.
• Various body shapes for various parent breeds. (Like the doppelganger dragon.)
• Breeding at a certain time of day. Like glory drakes.
• Second successful breeding within 8 days. (To give you some time to breed again before the alt-bonus expires.)

Hatching-dependent mechanisms:

• Hatching the egg within a certain time-span (4 days left, 3 days left, 2 days left...)
• Using a certain BSA on an egg.
• Hatching the egg with a certain amount of views or unique views.
• Hatching the egg at a certain point of time during the day (like sunset/sunrise dragons)
• Performing the kill action on an egg. (Successfully forcing the hatchling out of the egg or with no effect.)
• Depending on when the egg accumulates its first 10 UVs. (Just keep it fogged as long as you need to.)

 

Edited November 29, 2014 by Vhale

[KageSora]

I like a lot of these, but not fond of the Incubate one.

 

What if I want to incubate my egg to hatch it faster because I need the space open, but I don't WANT an alt? How would that work with Influence? Would it override a male Influence?

 

I definitely like the idea of some breeds changing looks more permanently based on breeding partners.

 

I'd like to see more like the stripe, too, that have different colors based on the parents.

 

I also like the idea of perhaps during different parts of the hour giving alts--perhaps there's a greater/chance of an alt if it hatches during a specific half of the hour? (Don't want it to be too specific, that'd be annoying).

 

Or maybe it should be bred, rather than hatched, because it can be a nightmare trying to control hatching time if you have very restricted time to play DC. So, if it's bred in X half of the hour, you have greater/chance.

[TCA]

What about a dragon that has different alts depending on how much time is left on its timer when it hatches? Like, version 1 if it hatches between 4 days and 3 days, version 2 if it hatches between 2 days 23 hours and 1 day, and version 3 if it hatches at under 23 hours?

[Vhale]

The timer thing ie Incubate came form this post by tjekan

Another possibility would be some new kind of dragon that takes a greater than usual amount of time and effort to create, like neglecteds only less so. A breed that takes three times as long to hatch and mature, for example, or has some finicky issue that makes them take extra tending to get them to hatch. Hatchlings of such a breed would also quickly become a midrange trading dragon because high-level players wouldn't want to lock up their egg slots and attention long enough to raise these dragons themselves and would rather pay other people bred metallics or shimmers to deliver them.

 

Though in a way, it's like Neglecteds. In order to get a neglected, you have to wait out the full 7 days rather than using incubate and speed hatching it at 3D23. It would KILL me to do, because I have an army of red dragons. And it's probably why I don't have a neglected. It's interesting to me in that respect, because it does make you slow down to get the alt. In a way, it's an easier version of the neglected with less risk. I think it might be worth looking at. And I'd find hte timer like TCA suggested a little easier than Sunset/Sunrise. Realistically, all you have to do is fog it and ER it when it's ready. It takes the risk out of the equation, like with nebulas, black alts or vines. But in order to get rid of the risk, you have to pay attention and put the extra time into it.

 

I like the idea about it changing based on when the egg was bred too.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Vhale

[Lythiaren]

Many years ago, I posted a suggestion known only as "Challenge Mode". The thread has since been purged, but the gist of the idea was to allow users to opt into a hard-mode of sorts, which would require keeping V:UV:C ratios within a specific range or above a certain level in order to raise the egg to maturity, through forum posting and well-timed fogging. Basically a way to let people get more engaged than "pick up egg, post on fansite, collect loot".

 

Perhaps doing so could tie into this idea and give successful "Challenge Mode" alts?

[Dr. Paine]

I'd be open-- if the spriters of it are too-- to bringing back my original intent for Flamingos, bred ones have a chance of hatching into a white alt (as captive flamingos often lose their color due to diet restrictions).

 

I also like the idea of breeding/hatching times producing alts. The challenge mode idea is also pretty cool, it'd definitely bring in some new trading opportunities.

[Obscure_Trash]

Leetle confused to this idea. A lot of sounds like a request for dragon requestors now to take into consideration and some seems like a completely new suggestion and some seem to be tweaking already on site dragons. Could we get these separated out in the first post? Perhaps it's just midterms making my head spin.

 

We have dragons that have the same egg description but differ from biome to biome as utterly different breeds. I think the next step would be have the same breed, but different colors. IE, the Equus dragon could have 3 varieties in each biome and 1 bred.

 

There are lots of requests now doing this. I don't think this is really anything we can deal with here in suggestions except to tell people to suggest this if they want it. Unless you're requesting we go back and add colors to other breeds in which my personal opinion is no, please! Too many sprites now have dimorphism and re-colors and I'd like to keep something simple. x3

 

We have dragons that change breed based on time of day. This is another we could take a step further in simply having the alt hatch at different times of day. Possibly at different times of the hour if we wanted it to be trickier or smaller windows. Would that just annoy people?

 

For current alts? This would annoy me. >_<

 

I would prefer the challenge mode for current alts, if we want some kind of more surefire way to get them. :3

 

We have Luminas that are almost hybrids in that they change color when bred with certain dragons. But it's temporary. Again, we could take that further and make it permanent. IE, we have a couple dragons with fire on their backs that come in various colors like Auroral Flareback. What if the fire changed color when bred with an elemental dragon like electric or water? It might be very fun to be able to change an entire lineages colors on a whim.

 

I like the luminas temporary since that's them growing back scales to get rid of ickys. The doppleganger dragons in suggestions now seem to be like what you're looking for. Again, this seems like one for dragon requests, not really suggestions. Did I misunderstand? (Quite possible.)

 

Lastly, it might be interesting to have BSAs affect dragon color. Either a specific BSA or existing ones. IE, if incubate was used, some species, gender is determined by temperature and we have lots of dimorphic species. So if incubate was used, a 90% chance the egg will hatch female for a breed where that will influence the color, ie nebulas. Or, simply have a duller or brighter form hatch if the bsa is used.

 

BSA section is always open to new suggestions. I'd prefer new BSAs for this (there's actually some based on nebulas right now, but I'm not sure if any of the black/green alt ones turned out viable. I'd have to do a search when I'm free again). :3

[Vhale]

Leetle confused to this idea. A lot of sounds like a request for dragon requestors now to take into consideration and some seems like a completely new suggestion and some seem to be tweaking already on site dragons. Could we get these separated out in the first post? Perhaps it's just midterms making my head spin.

 

I think it's a combination of mod hat and you know the request etc sections far better than I do. :3

The way the rules work on this forum it almost requires you to spend a few days researching if somethings been posted in the last 5 years previously and to have 1 extremely specific topic with little variance. Something I was trained to do in graphics school with groups of people was called Brain Storming. The idea is that everyone in the room has different strengths and sees things in different ways. Everyone brings something unique to the table. The initial phase is to present a concept. But, not be to specific. Then the rest of the group shares their take on that concept. From that "storm" of ideas, then people are able to comment on what they feel the best ones are and fine tune them. It's a really fun process. But to do it, you have to let people's thoughts wander and let people converse, sometimes widely. That's almost again forum rules. It's also fine if you don't like alts or dimorphism. But this thread isn't about adding either to all dragons, just a response to a comment from TJ that he'd be interested in other options. The point therefore, isn't to present one finished option. But to get a spread of ideas and see what we, the users, think of them. A brain storm. And potentially make them better.

 

My suggestions for instance, are going to be biased toward having variations of existing techniques. I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel on alts. I think just a little more variety is fine. I say that because people are asking for mid-range value trades. A neglected is very valueable because it takes time and chance to create. I think that's fine. But I think we could have a mid-range valuable dragon by taking that basic concept and tweaking it a little easier. Which is what TCA's suggestion would do. As Kage Sora and I pointed out, it would be really hard for someone used to incubating to NOT incubate. That is where the neglected gets it's value. It's not because it can be lineaged. it's not because it's overly pretty. It's because of the time involved. So, we're creating value by adjusting the time.

 

Lyth's idea is pretty interesting too.

 

Edit: For example, thinking about your post Socky, I had two additional thoughts.

The first a combination of your thoughts on dimorphism and Kage Sora's comments on influence. First, I need to accept that your comment on dimorphism is perfectly fair, regardless of how I feel about it. But for my own bias, I do like dimorphism because I like lineages. However, due to how dimorphism is, you can't mate certain colors of dragons to others. Nebulas are the prime example. So the thought that came to me was, rather than have a straight up gender switch bsa like influence, why not half a switch. IE, a bsa that switched the only the gender, but not the sprite. So, you'd get blue MALE nebulas.

The reasoning behind that would be: a fresh bsa. a fresh way to do lineages. More bang for the buck for dimorphism without adding it to new sprites or altering influence. Would it create trade value? Maybe. We have an entire gender switch trade thread. But I'd never have had the thought without those two replies from other people. Maybe it's a good idea. Maybe it's just a stepping point that someone else will see and go, hey, why don't we take that and do this?

 

The other thought was related to the Angel dragons and alt Sweetlings. We know TJ can code scrolls to show various dragon colors. Would it be possible to code scrolls so that half of them could hatch one alt, and the other half could hatch the other? basically, people would be forced to trade to collect both. Now critiquing that idea, we know the word "forced playstyle" gets people up in arms. That idea came somehow from thinking about the above and hopefully won't prove a distraction. Arguing about forced playstyles is different thread. But, it would be a feature that would make trading proactive.

 

Edit: Thought based on the ratio discussion and TSA's comments and various threads.

There's a lot of discussion about mass breeders and over breeding. Most ideas tend toward punishing or restricting these breeders in some way. What about using a reward instead? IE, a rare alt that can only be hatched if no other eggs are currently on the scroll. Someone basically has to give up their extra slots and/or trophy for 4 days to get this dragon. That certainly slows breeding and catching. But, with a reward instead of just a restriction.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Vhale

[Obscure_Trash]

Ah, okay. Thanks. ^^

 

I'll admit, I'm biased towards leaving in cave the same and just introducing more requests that are along these lines.

 

That genderbend BSA is interesting, though I'm not sure how many conceptors/artists would be okay with that? Sometimes the sprites are different for a reason besides just dimorphism, but if certain concepts are okay with it, that certainly is an interesting idea. =o

 

I'm certainly not against having 'puzzles' that users have to figure out to get a certain sprite of a dragon (having no other eggs, a certain amount of views, whatever). I think that's an interesting idea that could add something new and interesting to DC. (But again, probably better for new concepts and other concepts in DR/completed right now.)

[olympe]

I think the idea of a BSA that switches the (gender-dimorphic) sprite, but not the gender (or the other way round) is brilliant. It would give us blue male hellfires, green female nebs, female winged terraes and a number of other cool thing. However, I feel that this should not affect breeds that only have di-posism (like GWs, for example).

 

For other breeds, this might probably turn them into an alt coloration, like a yellow neotropical with green stripes instead of the regular version.

 

Other, breeding-based things that could cause alts:

• Biome of the parent of the other breed. (Like with stripes, just that it's not the color affecting the outcome. Like this: If you breed X with a parent from the volcano biome, you'd get X in the volcano version. If you bred a X to a parent from the coast biome, you'd get an X in the coast version...)
• Secondary/tertiary color of the parent of the other breed: We have a couple of bioluminescent dragon concepts with various colors for the glowy markings. Why not make the marking color of the offspring depend on the secondary color of the parent of the other breed? Like, you breed your biolum to a neotropical - the biolum offspring would have yellow markings (like the neo). Or you breed it to a skywing, and you'd get a biolum with white markings (like the skywing's belly). ...
• Seasonal differences: Maybe we could have skywings with golden bellies for Christmas season. (According to the conceptor's description in the wiki, the bellies are based on metal the skywings eat or something like that.) Or bright green terraes for spring (like you leaves)...
• Stripe-like, depending on the other parent's primary color.
• Various body shapes for various parent breeds. (Like the doppelganger dragon.)
• Breeding at a certain time of day. Like glory drakes.
• Second successful breeding within 8 days. (To give you some time to breed again before the alt-bonus expires.)

Hatching-dependent mechanisms:

[*] Hatching the egg within a certain time-span (4 days left, 3 days left, 2 days left...)

[*] Using a certain BSA on an egg.

[*] Hatching the egg with a certain amount of views or unique views.

[*] Hatching the egg at a certain point of time during the day (like sunset/sunrise dragons)

[*] Performing the kill action on an egg. (Successfully forcing the hatchling out of the egg or with no effect.)

[*] Depending on when the egg accumulates its first 10 UVs. (Just keep it fogged as long as you need to.)

[Vhale]

If someone wants to try and refine one of them out as an individual concept that would be nifty :3

 

I'm all for new dragon releases, so having a new trick on top of one would be icing on the cake!

 

The second successful breeding within 8 days is interesting. I think TJ posted in his forum thread that breeding has a higher chance of success the longer it is between breeding. So there is already some kind of mechanic in there. Maybe that means it wouldn't be hard to code?

 

Has anyone ever created a dragon concept that uses genetic based coloring? Like how people can figure out how to breed snakes to get certain morphs and colors. Seems like that kind of thing would fit in well in Dragon Cave.

[olympe]

Well, there are stripes... Their color depends on the non-stripe parent (unless you breed stripe x stripe).

[zaverxi]

How about an idea of making some cave blockers more 'valuable' so people would want them more? Like for instance, Mints. What if specific breedings got you different 'flavors' of mint? Like, say, breeding them with a Yulebuck and getting a peppermint, or breeding with a Heartseeker and getting a chocolate mint? And to make it rarer, have them only available during the appropriate times of the year? Like the valentine hybrid having only a 50-50 chance when bred during the week near Valentine's day, and ditto for the Christmas. It'd force people to make a choice as to whether they want to try and breed for a Holiday or a rare mint, since those two have limited scroll slots. I'm not suggesting a Halloween one for two reasons, one people can have as many of them as they want, and two, I'm not sure what kind of mint hybrid would be available there, haha.

 

 

Another idea of mine is making Nocturne and Electric ones have alts too. Like, say, the Nocturne one could have different colored varieties, like with the nebulas. The day sprite stays the same though, since it turns to 'stone' when the sun shines. But if it could be kinda like with the geodes, and breeding with the appropriate dragons(stone, geode, earth) provides different colors? Like with stone dragons, make it white during the night, earth, it gets a green makeover, and geode makes it a brighter, shiny blue?

 

And Electrics could have something special if bred with a Trio. Red lightning that looks like flame for magma, blue lightning that looks like icicles for ice, and hmm.... white lightning instead of yellow if bred with an electric.

 

Of course, all of these would be up to the spriters in question if they want to do it, or give someone else permission to do it for them if need be.

 

There's other cave blockers as well, I just thought I'd mention the ones that also tend to fill up the AP as well.

[Lythiaren]

zaverxi, the problem with that is that people need to make the sprites and they need to be made to standard. If you're willing to gather people for a big fun DR project, you're welcome to give it a shot. Hybrid ideas do crop up in there quite often.

 

Keep in mind though, "to standard" is a vastly different thing from what it was some number of years ago. You may think breed X incave looks terrible and that your sprite is sure to get in because it's better, but depending on the age of the breed that point may be moot. Standards have shot way up because of the sheer volume of very high quality sprites in DR; we can only release dragons so fast. Hybrids with those breeds that are showing their age are especially difficult.

 

I mean if the minimum requirement for cave release was static and required "at least as good as shrinky-head-how-do-i-anatomy frill" then there'd be a whole lot more dragons out there.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Lythiaren

[Coronaviridae]

How about an idea of making some cave blockers more 'valuable' so people would want them more? Like for instance, Mints. What if specific breedings got you different 'flavors' of mint? Like, say, breeding them with a Yulebuck and getting a peppermint, or breeding with a Heartseeker and getting a chocolate mint? And to make it rarer, have them only available during the appropriate times of the year? Like the valentine hybrid having only a 50-50 chance when bred during the week near Valentine's day, and ditto for the Christmas. It'd force people to make a choice as to whether they want to try and breed for a Holiday or a rare mint, since those two have limited scroll slots. I'm not suggesting a Halloween one for two reasons, one people can have as many of them as they want, and two, I'm not sure what kind of mint hybrid would be available there, haha.

That's not an interesting choice, though, because once people had their two there'd be more incentive to breed for a "special hybrid" during the breeding window and it would drop the number of 2nd+ generation holidays being bred. This might increase the trading power of holidays (other than Hollies, which will always be desirable) somewhat since everyone wouldn't be breeding them to drop, but unless the resulting alt versions bred true (i.e., peppermints bred to another not-mint dragon would always produce their partner's breed or a peppermint) it would also result in a situation where the longest-lineage "PB" hybrid any player could produce on their own scroll would be 3rd gen. And given only a 50% chance on two dragons in a one-week period to breed them, they are incredibly unlikely to be traded around until several years after their release.

 

I'd rather see any hybrids, even special color alt hybrids from holidays, available year-round so people have an opportunity to share them. That's why holiday dragons themselves are multiclutchers, because of the short window of availability.

[RecycledHeart]

This seems like a very good idea to me. Making cave blockers more desirable will definitely help cut down on the complaints of them being the only three eggs in a certain biome or none of the biomes moving.

[LupusEques]

Did someone say... EQUES?

 

Anyways... Alts are the normal dragons with different colors, but are completely different dragons and cannot change into the other, so what you are suggesting is not even alts, and you are not even saying which dragons do what.

[edwardelricfreak]

Anyways... Alts are the normal dragons with different colors, but are completely different dragons and cannot change into the other, so what you are suggesting is not even alts, and you are not even saying which dragons do what.

There isn't really a solid suggestion here at all, just some initial ideas for a suggestion. What's being suggested, however, from what I can tell, is just ideas for methods of different kinds of alts (color morphs most likely) for different dragons.

 

Why would it say which dragons do what when that hasn't been decided yet? Though, to be fair, it's implied that it means dirt-common dragons, to make them at least *somewhat* more valuable.

 

I do wish the OP might be updated to have some of the ideas in the other posts quoted. I'm really liking a lot of the ideas here.

[KittyHawkMC]

It's implied that it means dirt-common dragons, to make them at least *somewhat* more valuable.

OMG yes! I haunt the forest biome at least once a day for an hour looking for Seasonals. I cri every time I see those damn caveblockers!

 

Agreed. You have my support on this idea. But would the adult dragons people already have change...?

[LeviathinGeneral]

You also have to put in an increased workload for some things.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I'd be more interested in something that makes it easier to get the currently available ALTs and Color Variants.

 

Like a BSA that is a type of Influence only it increases the chance of your egg hatching as an ALT or Color Variant. And no, I have no clue what dragon should be used which is why I haven't made a suggestion in the BSA subforum.. not to mention that I think the BSA rules are broken and too darn picky.

[Vhale]

Surprised to see this bumped. But, updated the first post. If anyone likes a particular suggestion and wants to run with it, feel free. I claim no ownership of them. This post was just to start some creative juices flowing