American Politics

[Alpha1]

Nuclear bombs should not be used to kill ANYONE, period. Okay, so as a Korean, I don't lose any sleep over the nuclear bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and never will, as without that my country's suffering would have been prolonged, my family members could have been drafted forcefully into the military, and I could be not here.

 

You also realize that firebombing killed more in Japan?

 

 

[Princess Artemis]

ETA: After reading the reddit link, I must say that people who are refusing Obamacare based on a mandate...confuses me. Our country basically jails you if you don't get national healthcare. Basically once you get born and gets a birth certificate, you automatically get enrolled in the National Healthcare system. And it's worked fine-the longest I've ever had to wait for a doctor was 30 minutes, and that was for a regular check-up at a relatively prestigious hospital.

WOW. I am going to have to mark that as firmly on the CON side of national health care. That's terrifying.

[Fuzzbucket]

WOW. I am going to have to mark that as firmly on the CON side of national health care. That's terrifying.

???

 

It seems to me it's on the PRO side* - everyone gets care, paid for out of taxes - and a 30 minute wait for a doctor with NO BILL ATTACHED.

 

You don't get jailed for not having healthcare - you just - have it automatically, so the question would never come up (just like the UK).

 

 

 

 

 

*Except for people who want the option not to have any and die a lot for want of cash when the hits the fan...

[~Kat~]

Not everyone is going to be able to afford Obamacare, but you will pay the penalty for not getting insurance.

[Rosedamai]

WOW.  I am going to have to mark that as firmly on the CON side of national health care.  That's terrifying.

Uh, you'd get jailed because you're basically neglecting your child by not registering him/her. That's not a con, I think. Unless you're suggesting that a child be unregistered, which means-no education, if you go missing no one would know, etc etc. Sorry for not explaining myself clearly enough

 

@Alpha- yes. I don't particularly care. I was discussing an event that led to the end of the war (the emperor surrendering) i.e the nuclear bombing. I couldn't care less about how many people died in Japan. Firebombing, while killing more people, doesn't lead to babies being deformed at birth or other side effects that lasts in such a drastic manner for a prolonged time. Also: not saying that I do, but most Koreans don't have a positive opinion on the Japanese-particularly those that lived during the colonial/WWII period-so if you tell them that more Japanese people were killed by firebombing, I can think of at least several people who'll shrug, say they deserved it, and go on.

 

Unless you think you've got a better handle on East Asian history, which I would seriously doubt.

Edited August 14, 2012 by ylangylang

[Fuzzbucket]

You also realize that firebombing killed more in Japan?

Actually yes I did - but nuclear has such dreadful after effects. I am not OK with anyone bombing anyone, in fact - but radiation is just off the scale of awfulness.

 

@ ~Kat~ ylang was talking about a system where there is no insurance to be paid for - everyone pays their taxes based on their income, and health care is paid for out of that revenue, with NO charge to anyone at the point of service, as in when you need it.

 

The option not to join in is simply not applicable. (Except in Canada where one specific religious group does it otherwise... I am not sure how that works, but they certainly do not lose their homes over being diagnosed with something expensive.)

 

I think that even in the US you can be jailed for not registering a birth ?

Edited August 14, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Rosedamai]

@ ~Kat~ ylang was talking about a system where there is no insurance to be paid for - everyone pays their taxes based on their income, and health care is paid for out of that revenue, with NO charge to anyone at the point of service, as in when you need it.

This, mostly. And don't tell me that it'll cost me more because the rate of taxes that my family pay-compared to a person in the U.S with similar earnings-is actually about the same.

[Kestra15]

You also realize that firebombing killed more in Japan?

A nuclear weapon is still indiscriminate death. Drop a nuclear bomb on a drug lord's house you may kill the lord and a few of his cronies - but the actual drug ring will only be slightly affected, and for every 'bad guy' you kill you will be condemning thousands more innocent people to long, painful lives and deaths. You can't just take a sledgehammer to these problems and think that by killing the ringleader, the problem just goes away.

 

If it was true that killing ringleaders solved everything, the Middle East must surely be the land of peace and prosperity by now.

[Alpha1]

 

@Alpha- yes. I don't particularly care. I was discussing an event that led to the end of the war (the emperor surrendering) i.e the nuclear bombing. I couldn't care less about how many people died in Japan. Firebombing, while killing more people, doesn't lead to babies being deformed at birth or other side effects that lasts in such a drastic manner for a prolonged time. Also: not saying that I do, but most Koreans don't have a positive opinion on the Japanese-particularly those that lived during the colonial/WWII period-so if you tell them that more Japanese people were killed by firebombing, I can think of at least several people who'll shrug, say they deserved it, and go on.

 

Well, being burned isn't nice either.

 

Unless you think you've got a better handle on East Asian history, which I would seriously doubt.

 

No, I think you're smart. I was just wondering.

[Rosedamai]

Well, being burned isn't nice either.

No, I think you're smart. I was just wondering.

While if it's a choice of being burnt or being melted, which is the case if you're too close to nuclear bombs when they fall, I'd choose being melted. However, assuming that I survive the attack, I'd rather be intact-my possessions and my house gone, but me, my body, irradiated-than have weird tumors, cancer or deformed babies.

 

And that'd be because I'm Asian and have lived, for the majority of my life, in an East Asian country. Thanks, but I bet if you're American, you'd know more about American history than I'd do.

 

@Kestra-and yes, if taking out ringleaders was all that it needed to upset a system, my country would be unified by now, when Our Dear Heavenly Father Lord Savior up in the North died. (Just in case someone gets confused-I hated Kim Jung Il. And North Korea=/=South Korea.)

Edited August 14, 2012 by ylangylang

[Princess Artemis]

I think that even in the US you can be jailed for not registering a birth ?

I am uncertain, but if so, this, also, is terrifying. We are not the government's property.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[Rosedamai]

I am uncertain, but if so, this, also, is terrifying. We are not the government's property.

I differ with you on this, but that's possibly because we've a warmongering cousin in the North, and we do need that government protection. Although, most people don't consciously think about NK all the time. We don't live in a state of fear.

[Princess Artemis]

I differ with you on this, but that's possibly because we've a warmongering cousin in the North, and we do need that government protection. Although, most people don't consciously think about NK all the time. We don't live in a state of fear.

How do you think you would feel about it if there were no extenuating circumstances? Honest question, in case it doesn't come across so.

[inlaterdays]

I am uncertain, but if so, this, also, is terrifying. We are not the government's property.

How is it terrifying? You can't get a drivers' license or passport without a birth certificate. You couldn't apply for many jobs, rent an apartment, or buy a house, either.

 

They are handy things to have.

[Rosedamai]

How do you think you would feel about it if there were no extenuating circumstances?  Honest question, in case it doesn't come across so.

That would be impossible to answer because much of my education has been focused, inevitably, consciously or not, on the fact that our country is in a constant state of aggression; that our country has undergone traumatic events in the very recent past; that me, as a national of said country, has to contribute in some way because we're a very small nation with no resources. This has shaped a large part of my worldview, consciously or not, so you're basically asking me to abandon a large part of how I view myself, my country and the world, which I can't do. Sorry if this is not satisfying, but that's the honest answer I can give you. Yes there are parts that maybe isn't as similar to others, based on the fact that other parts of my worldview-and a good part of it-was shaped during the formative years of my teens when I was in Canada. But still, even when I take THAT into consideration, I still have a lot of parts of my worldview colored, if I may use the word, by Korean education, and I can't disassociate myself from that.

 

Sorry

 

ETA: To add to that, my parents' worldview has affected me too, and they've raised in the Korean education system, so....this would be like asking you, Princess Artemis, what you'd think if, say, you were raised in a completely different situation with completely different upbringing with completely different parenting.

 

And I've just noticed that S.K sounds like a very socialist country. It's not, trust me. We're just under a lot of pressure most of the time.

Edited August 14, 2012 by ylangylang

[Drachenlied]

I am uncertain, but if so, this, also, is terrifying. We are not the government's property.

In all honesty, I think the gov't has a right to demand that births be registered... Just like they have the right to take a consensus, and you can be fined if you don't participate. In order to run a country, you have to have a good grasp on how many people you're providing for and what class you're providing for. Plus, in order to be eligible for certain things or even apply for a job or go to school, you have to have a social security number. You've got to be registered and exist in order to have a social security number. (At least, to my knowledge, you've got to be.)

[Princess Artemis]

That would be impossible to answer because much of my education has been focused, inevitably, consciously or not, on the fact that our country is in a constant state of aggression; that our country has undergone traumatic events in the very recent past; that me, as a national of said country, has to contribute in some way because we're a very small nation with no resources. This has shaped a large part of my worldview, consciously or not, so you're basically asking me to abandon a large part of how I view myself, my country and the world, which I can't do. Sorry if this is not satisfying, but that's the honest answer I can give you. Yes there are parts that maybe isn't as similar to others, based on the fact that other parts of my worldview-and a good part of it-was shaped during the formative years of my teens when I was in Canada. But still, even when I take THAT into consideration, I still have a lot of parts of my worldview colored, if I may use the word, by Korean education, and I can't disassociate myself from that.

 

Sorry

 

ETA: To add to that, my parents' worldview has affected me too, and they've raised in the Korean education system, so....this would be like asking you, Princess Artemis, what you'd think if, say, you were raised in a completely different situation with completely different upbringing with completely different parenting.

 

And I've just noticed that S.K sounds like a very socialist country. It's not, trust me. We're just under a lot of pressure most of the time.

Thanks for your thoughts. I didn't realize what I was asking was so dependent on your worldview and upbringing, but I can see that it is.

 

Anyway...I'll remain thinking that it's really scary how accepting people are of "register with government at birth or be jailed"...because as I see it, registration is something one does with a commodity. Not a human. A parent isn't stealing their child from anyone if they don't get a number stamped on them : (

[Sorrowgrave]

Ylangylang

I said

 

my opinion a freedom fighter is someone who wants to do good for a non religious reason,

 

I did NOT say that most freedom fighters act without a religious cause,

for this reason,

those blinded by faith might as well be blind to the world around them, what they see as a good or holy cause often isn't.

[KageSora]

It is not because of us that terrorists are terrorists. Some people are not as civil as we are and want more than their share. Look at all the fighting in other countries amongst themselves, killing many innocents. We go over there to take down the bad boys.

 

Sure, I feel sometimes we intervene more than we should, but it is for the good of the innocents that are being killed.

 

Do you think I like war when I have one of my own sons who has been through 2 tours and plans on going back to Afghanastan. Talk to some of the soldiers and let them tell you how they feel about the terrorists and others. They are glad to take them out. Some of the inhuman things my son has told me about would make you sick. Oh, children are included.

 

Just like the drug wars in Mexico. They do not care who they kill including children. The government knows where some of these people are. Our military needs to go down and nuke the drug lords and their compounds. I have talked to some of the agents because of the job I am in. I do not have time right now as I have to go to work to tell you some of the things they have seen and witnessed as well as know.

You do realize that, by that logic, another country could invade us to take us down because they think the way we run our country is horrible?

 

You don't want people coming and taking over our way of life? Maybe we should leave others to settle it themselves instead of trying to alter theirs.

 

Our country doesn't care about a lot of people inside it--we just don't always actively go out and kill them. But that doesn't mean we're not responsible for a whole lot of horrible things happening.

 

We may think we're civil, but if other people view us as uncivil, then maybe we should rethink how we look at ourselves--the views of others, while not a universal determination of how we should think on ourselves, should not be completely discarded because we think we're so much better than them.

 

That's just arrogant and stupid.

[lightbird]

You do realize that, by that logic, another country could invade us to take us down because they think the way we run our country is horrible?

 

You don't want people coming and taking over our way of life?  Maybe we should leave others to settle it themselves instead of trying to alter theirs.

 

Our country doesn't care about a lot of people inside it--we just don't always actively go out and kill them.  But that doesn't mean we're not responsible for a whole lot of horrible things happening.

 

We may think we're civil, but if other people view us as uncivil, then maybe we should rethink how we look at ourselves--the views of others, while not a universal determination of how we should think on ourselves, should not be completely discarded because we think we're so much better than them.

 

That's just arrogant and stupid.

All of this. While I agree that there are some universally bad things that should be fought, the idea of imposing your own sense of freedom and civility* is very off-putting.

 

Naw, I think I understand why some favour Romney. In a recent article, he also said that he thinks that America should show the economical and military leadership of the world, and I can see how it tickles some people's sympathies.

 

But I just... kinda fail to understand the arrogance.

 

* - I'd also be curious, if someone explained to me what they understand with American civility.

Edited August 14, 2012 by lightbird

[Rosedamai]

Ylangylang

I said

 

my opinion a freedom fighter is someone who wants to do good for a non religious reason,

 

I did NOT say that most freedom fighters act without a religious cause,

for this reason,

those blinded by faith might as well be blind to the world around them, what they see as a good or holy cause often isn't.

Uh, if I came off as rude, I'm sorry. I looked over that part.

[~Kat~]

War is a horrible thing, but it is a necessary evil.

 

I believe in a strong military to keep America safe.

[Kestra15]

War is a horrible thing, but it is a necessary evil.

 

I believe in a strong military to keep America safe.

Cool. Keep your military there so we can keep the world safe.

[~Kat~]

Cool. Keep your military there so we can keep the world safe.

 

Thank you.

[Vhale]

I would prefer we in the US work on keeping ourselves healthy and safe. I feel like we are losing ourselves. For those curious just how many pots the US has it's fingers in, http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2...8345053728.html

 

And in order to play the war games above, we've accomplished the following:

 

Personal bankruptcies increased from 300,000 in 1980 to 2 million in 2005 - a 567 per cent increase. The chance that an average American's income will drop 50 per cent or more over a two-year period increased from 7 per cent in the 1970s to 17 per cent in 2002 - a 143 per cent increase. Long-term unemployment (more than 6 months) at the peak of the business cycle is triple what it was in the 1960s. 

 

Second, regarding health security: The number of Americans without health insurance was 46.6 million, up from about 24 million in 1980. The decline was entirely due to cuts in employer-provided health coverage. Worse still, over 80 million Americans lack health insurance over some time during a two-year period.

 

Third, regarding retirement security: The percentage of large and medium-sized corporations offering traditional "defined-benefit" pensions, with a guaranteed monthly benefit for life, fell from more than 80 per cent in 1980 to less than a third in 2006. And 401(k)s that replaced them? There's a reason folks call them 201(k)s now.

 

Fourth, the burden was particularly hard on families with children, whom conservatives claim to care about most. Their bankruptcy rates are twice that of childless couples.

 

Citation

 

Meh.

To a degree, it feels like a variation of the cold war. In trying to put claims all over the world in advance of China etc, we're spreading ourselves too thin.