American Politics

[7Deadly$ins]

I cannot say just how furious I am, actually, that I know there will not only be people happy to rob my family to pay for other people's bad habits (oh, they'll say it's for other things, moral busybodies always do, but let's be realistic here--its to pay for the older gent who had a heart attack because he refused to stopped shoveling Big Macs and is probably out there with a lawsuit against McD's too for stealing his free will), but that the Supreme Court has said that the Constitution allows this.

 

I've never wanted out of this sad excuse for what used to be a pretty good country more than I do today. Disappointed does not even begin to describe how I'm feeling about this.

So which democracy are you planning on moving to -- without some form of national health care, then?

[Princess Artemis]

So which democracy are you planning on moving to -- without some form of national health care, then?

I rather liked the idea of nowhere, to be honest. And certainly not a democracy. Mob rule is a terrible thing.

 

The more democratic the US has become, the worse it has gotten. That's part of what's got us into this: some people are trying to buy off the mob that wants other people's goodies for free.

 

ETA: This helped some though. Just for humor. History in the Making

Edited June 28, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[Red2111]

gee i wonder how long before the Soda tax, SUV tax and other taxes that force us to either buy or not buy certain products will be passed now that SCOTUS as deemed this sort of taxation constitutional

 

this is a sad day for american history and ur fore farthers are turning in their grave. hopefully this will wake more americans up though to vote out all of the SOBs in congress.

 

 

though Romney isn't all that much better

Edited June 28, 2012 by Red2111

[Princess Artemis]

At least they said it was unconstitutional as a penalty via the Commerce Clause--specifically saying Congress couldn't penalize Americans for doing nothing. Apparently they can tax us for doing nothing though. Yay for that, I guess?

[Red2111]

but the thing is, the taxation is still a penalty; because if you don't pay the tax because you dont have the healthcare you go to jail. so isn't it basically just a different ends to the same means and semantics?

 

the intention and outcome is still the same. not to mention the guy who argued in favor of the ACA was an idiot in his defense tbh. his entire case was literally laughable.

 

 

 

apparently they also didn't look over the entire ACA and just decided on the two major aspects (Mandate and Medicaire) perhaps they also didn't want to read the bill and took the easy way out since Obama rushed the case date?

Edited June 28, 2012 by Red2111

[Red2111]

In Plain English: The Affordable Care Act, including its individual mandate that virtually all Americans buy health insurance, is constitutional. There were not five votes to uphold it on the ground that Congress could use its power to regulate commerce between the states to require everyone to buy health insurance. However, five Justices agreed that the penalty that someone must pay if he refuses to buy insurance is a kind of tax that Congress can impose using its taxing power. That is all that matters. Because the mandate survives, the Court did not need to decide what other parts of the statute were constitutional, except for a provision that required states to comply with new eligibility requirements for Medicaid or risk losing their funding. On that question, the Court held that the provision is constitutional as long as states would only lose new funds if they didn't comply with the new requirements, rather than all of their funding.

 

source - http://www.scotusblo.../cover-it-live/

 

 

 

after all, why should the courts read the entire bill when our law makers didn't read it before voting it into law.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2012 by Red2111

[Daydreamer09]

Aren't we suppose to be in an economic depression? Why the hell would you add more taxes when our economy is still trying to pick itself back up? Makes no sense.

 

Man, the republican party is going to be all over this for the next coming elections...

[Red2111]

not only that Daydreamer, but why would you want the same people incharge of Social Security in charge of your Healthcare o.0

 

 

it makes absolutely no sense.

 

 

the more i think about this, the more miffed i get over this

Edited June 28, 2012 by Red2111

[philpot123]

Maybe our government will decide that I should buy a new car tomorrow, or be penalized for not doing so.

[LadyLyzar]

Don't forget the perfectly good cars that were destroyed during Cash for Clunkers - perfectly operational cars in good condition that didn't meet a certain gas mileage. So what?? Giving those cars to people who needed transportation in order to work might have been a better idea, and giving those who donated them a tax credit for doing so! It was a wasteful "feel-good" program that cost taxpayers much more than it saved.

 

Adding another entitlement program when the ones we already have are in serious trouble is a real problem. A look at the U.S. Debt Clock should be a real eye opener - especially the bottom two rows.

 

With those programs already grossly unfunded, adding another program into the mix just makes no sense. Eventually China is going to want to collect the debt we owe.

 

In addition, many doctors have explained that Obamacare will hurt their practices and they may have to start turning away patients. My family doctor actually retired a few years early in anticipation of Obamacare passing. He knew he would not be able to afford to keep his practice open. Also, many people have predicted that health care costs will increased under this legislation, and care will be rationed as wait times to see a specialist increase.

 

This matter strikes me personally as my mom just had surgery for kidney cancer a few weeks ago. If the surgery had been delayed a few weeks longer, the cancer would have spread beyond the kidney and there would have been nothing the doctors could have done. The decisions were between my mom and her doctors with no government bureaucrats in the way. Her surgery was done within a week of the diagnosis.

 

This legislation was also sorely lacking in many areas that have caused health care to be so expensive in the first place.

 

A big one is tort reform - we are heavily addicted to litigation as a country. We sue over anything and everything. Some cases have merit, some don't - but the amount awarded are often ridiculous. The judgements themselves may not seem like a lot, but the insurance required to cover them is huge. A doctor/hospital's costs go up to pay for that insurance, which gets passed on to the patient and their insurance. It's a vicious cycle, and one that the Party of Lawyers is not going to stop anytime soon.

 

Also, there is no such thing as "free" health care so I get pretty sick of hearing that term. Someone somewhere is paying for it.

 

This ruling has set a dangerous precedent that the government can do just about whatever it wants under the guise of a tax. Even if ObamaCare is repealed (which I hope it is), that concept is going to show up again and again.

[Red2111]

aside from Malpractice costs the other major factor in cost that keeps health insurance high is perscription drugs.

 

 

and i'm right with you Lyzar, it makes me sick to my stomach when i hear "free" healthcare. it aint free, it cost tax dollars to pay for and resources to run. as my economics teacher was fond of saying "theres no such thing as free lunch".

[hazeh]

 

 

and i'm right with you Lyzar, it makes me sick to my stomach when i hear "free" healthcare. it aint free, it cost tax dollars to pay for and resources to run. as my economics teacher was fond of saying "theres no such thing as free lunch".

Just popping in to say, my Econ teacher said the exact same thing!

 

 

But, even with Obamacare, I will with no doubt vote for Obama. I will do everything I can to make sure Romney doesn't win the election.

[Infinis]

Just popping in to say, my Econ teacher said the exact same thing!

 

 

But, even with Obamacare, I will with no doubt vote for Obama. I will do everything I can to make sure Romney doesn't win the election.

Out of curiosity why won't you vote for a candidate that ISN'T Republican or Democrat? Both candidates suck for those parties. My mom is voting independent and if I can register in time, so am I. You don't have to vote for a major-party candidate just because they're the most likely to win, vote for the candidate that stands on the same ground on important issues as you do.

 

Because the mandate survives, the Court did not need to decide what other parts of the statute were constitutional

 

Wait. Isn't doing that, like, THEIR JOB? :U

 

That said, whenever I listened to him [Obama] in the past during the campaign trail, his speeches came across as vague to me and not very concrete.

 

I dislike his excessive overuse of "uh" and "um" because it's very distracting and makes him sound like he doesn't even know what he's talking about.

 

What I dislike about American politics the most right now is the ever-increasing divide between Republicans and Democrats and a lot of this divide seems to stem from the simple fact that "oh, he's a democrat, i don't like him" etc and not just from the different moral stances and stuff the parties have. (My mother is guilty of doing this too and I wish she'd quit it. <.<)

 

And because of this stupid divide Congress can't even compromise most of the time and so nothing gets done....

 

:I I feel like we need to just throw all of them out and replace them with people who might actually be able to get along and, you know, do their job and get things done.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Infinis

[hazeh]

Out of curiosity why won't you vote for a candidate that ISN'T Republican or Democrat? Both candidates suck for those parties. My mom is voting independent and if I can register in time, so am I. You don't have to vote for a major-party candidate just because they're the most likely to win, vote for the candidate that stands on the same ground on important issues as you do.

Actually, I do like Obama. A lot. I do like Obamacare, but I agree it wasn't handled very effectively. But it is an important issue to me because someone I care about deeply is affected by it and I want others to be positively impacted by it as she would have been.

Other than that, I am an Obama supporter because my ideals do lie with his.

Also, while the idea of voting for an independent party would be nice if I wasn't so in line with Obama, I don't think I could. To me, there aren't enough people out there to support third parties in order for me to feel safe enough to vote for someone other than Obama. To me, it's the same as not voting at all, and then that's one more vote that wouldn't have stopped Romney from getting into office and ruining the country.

[Red2111]

Infinis, my dislike for obama is less because of his political party (there are some Dems that are fiscally conservative)

 

its more because i disagree 110% with his ideaologies on a basic level. from his interpretation of the constitution to what the role of the fed government is.

 

its a fundamental belief difference i have with him. i perosnally think the fundamentals of america where fine the way they were and we didn't need a FUNDAMENTAL change. not we need a change in politics, but thats seperate from the foudnation.

 

to put it in lamens terms, he wants to condem and demolish the entire house from the foundation up while i prefer to keep the original structure and foundation and just replaced the drywall and support beams.

[Alpha1]

Wait. Isn't doing that, like, THEIR JOB? :U

 

It isn't their job to make policy judgements.

 

Anyways, what do you guys think about Romney's VP pick?

[Sorrowgrave]

I honestly hope Obamacare does pass, otherwise due to my preexisting condition I'm looking at being denined health insurence, which translates to dying broke on the streets at 40, that's the life expectantly I have if I can't afford to keep treatment.

 

(Thyroid is non functioning, my doctor said it was dead but I'm confused as to why I don't have a infection because don't dead things normally rot?)

 

And I hate Ryan, he's every man for himself, what ever happened to take care of thy neighbor?

[lightbird]

To me, there aren't enough people out there to support third parties in order for me to feel safe enough to vote for someone other than Obama. To me, it's the same as not voting at all, and then that's one more vote that wouldn't have stopped Romney from getting into office and ruining the country.

Not American, but I see this the same way.

 

From what I hear, even if you personally don't like Obama, Romney definitely sounds way, way worse - he's pro-life, pro-war, anti-gay rights, anti-Planned Parenthood, for increased taxes for the middle-class, and, iirc, has a history of running several companies into grounds with job losses for thousands with no welfare benefits and direct profits from Romney himself. Of course, being more or less liberal, I may be biased.

 

What, to be honest, makes me sick is when people say that because they don't like candidate x (usually Obama in this case) and that's why they'll vote for the other candidate, because that ones has got to be better, without researching the favoured candidates politics as all.

Edited August 14, 2012 by lightbird

[Alpha1]

I honestly hope Obamacare does pass

 

The individual mandate was already upheld. Or are you referring Romney's attempt to reverse it if he's elected?

 

And I hate Ryan, he's every man for himself, what ever happened to take care of thy neighbor?

 

I can see him condemning some poor woman to wear a scarlet letter for the rest of her life.

 

What I dislike is that his budget panders to seniors. His plan lets everyone 55 and over receive the same Medicare benefits as they do now or will in the future. Basically, he just lets the issue go on for over a decade. I can see why, though. You can't touch that issue at all.

 

So far, it seems like a lot of people don't know this about his plan, and the Democrats are attacking it as if it'll throw grandma off the cliff (that ad was funny ).

 

Other things I dislike is that it freezes other areas but not defense spending. I'm sure a lot of the defense spending could be cut, and it wouldn't harm national security at all. The tax cuts also put them in a similar position as the Democrats (i.e. what about the deficit), and the trickle-down doesn't happen.

 

 

 

[~Kat~]

its more because i disagree 110% with his ideaologies on a basic level. from his interpretation of the constitution to what the role of the fed government is.

 

its a fundamental belief difference i have with him. i perosnally think the fundamentals of america where fine the way they were and we didn't need a FUNDAMENTAL change. not we need a change in politics, but thats seperate from the foudnation.

 

to put it in lamens terms, he wants to condem and demolish the entire house from the foundation up while i prefer to keep the original structure and foundation and just replaced the drywall and support beams.

Amen to that Red2111

 

philpot123

 

I agree with you on trying to make everyone equal as far as economic standing or social power isn't practical and simply doesn't work. Has anyone ever seen a poor person give someone a job!!!

 

Obamacare is not free either as you will see. Dr's hands are going to be tied in the care they can give you. This has come from many dr's I have spoken to.

 

Obama is as unamerican as they come. He wants to make us into a Socialist country. He goes against the American Constitution as well. He makes laws by himself and gets away with it.

 

I also believe it is my right to have a gun. Criminals will get them from the black market.

 

We also need to keep a strong military so we do not get overpowered, and our way of life as you know it will cease. Freedom is not free. Our forefathers and people in the military have fought/died and fight/die today so you can have what you have today. Obama will go down in history for bowing to the Saudi King. Obama is a weak man in my opinion. He shows so much weakness that the terrorists are laughing at him. My son has fought 2 tours and recently came home earlier this year. Thank god for a soldier, and my son came home whole and healthy.

 

I honestly shudder at the thought of 4 more years under Obama. He is going to ruin our country.

 

I am voting for Romney, but I do not really like him. It has to be better than what we have now.

 

Obama has never been my president, ever. I do not like his politics or much for what this man stands for. The one thing he does well, he speaks well, I can say that for him.

[Ashes The Second]

Rich people buying the presdent.

 

 

'Nuff said.

 

Neglect: You humans are weird. Why would you use money to obtain something that should be fair and just?

 

No idea.

 

@Kat; You're being slightly blunt in your opinions, could you tone it down? :\. If you blatantly think those things about someone you know nothing about, then at least tone it down a tad? 8c. It bothers me someone would just be so... saljdklsaj. 'obama was horrible blah blah blah'.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Ashes The Second

[Syaoransbear]

Amen to that Red2111

 

philpot123

 

I agree with you on trying to make everyone equal as far as economic standing or social power isn't practical and simply doesn't work. Has anyone ever seen a poor person give someone a job!!!

 

Obamacare is not free either as you will see. Dr's hands are going to be tied in the care they can give you. This has come from many dr's I have spoken to.

 

Obama is as unamerican as they come. He wants to make us into a Socialist country. He goes against the American Constitution as well. He makes laws by himself and gets away with it.

 

I also believe it is my right to have a gun. Criminals will get them from the black market.

 

We also need to keep a strong military so we do not get overpowered, and our way of life as you know it will cease. Freedom is not free. Our forefathers and people in the military have fought/died and fight/die today so you can have what you have today. Obama will go down in history for bowing to the Saudi King. Obama is a weak man in my opinion. He shows so much weakness that the terrorists are laughing at him. My son has fought 2 tours and recently came home earlier this year. Thank god for a soldier, and my son came home whole and healthy.

 

I honestly shudder at the thought of 4 more years under Obama. He is going to ruin our country.

 

I am voting for Romney, but I do not really like him. It has to be better than what we have now.

 

Obama has never been my president, ever. I do not like his politics or much for what this man stands for. The one thing he does well, he speaks well, I can say that for him.

You guys need Obama. You have no idea how badly your country looks to the rest of the world. Obama has given you guys a more humble image that you desperately needed.

[Alpha1]

What, to be honest, makes me sick is when people say that because they don't like candidate x (usually Obama in this case) and that's why they'll vote for the other candidate, because that ones has got to be better, without researching the favoured candidates politics as all.

 

Watch O'Reilly get a spanking

 

 

If only Ben Stein was this rational on evolution. No intelligence allowed!

 

Has anyone ever seen a poor person give someone a job!!!

 

Food stamps has a bigger multiplier effect than the Bush tax cuts. I'm sure most economists would agree even if you account for paying off the debt later on, and the Bush tax cuts are no different in that regard. CBO estimated that extending them to everyone for 10 years would add 3.3 trillion.

 

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/err-e...ort/err103.aspx

 

"FANIOM’s GDP multiplier of 1.79 for SNAP benefits is comparable with multipliers from some macroeconomic models."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_tax_cuts#cite_note-26

 

The consensus seems to be that the Bush tax cuts harm the economy.

 

Obamacare is not free either as you will see. Dr's hands are going to be tied in the care they can give you. This has come from many dr's I have spoken to.

 

ObamaCare could be better if it was modeled more after other countries, but the pay-out-of-pocket model is worse. A lot of other countries have much lower administrative costs, for example.

 

Tort reform only does so much as you can see from the states that have it. The restrictions on out of state insurance are there because of consumer protection. If it wasn't, you'll have some economically depressed state (inbred WV ) deciding which plan is the standard, and it would be easier for insurance companies to take in the healthy people.

 

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/17145

 

"In general, health insurance that includes coverage of mandated benefits will cost more than

it would if those benefits were not required. In aggregate, this estimate assumes that if only

those benefit mandates imposed by the states with the lowest-cost mandates were in effect

in all states, the price of individual health insurance would be reduced by about 5 percent,

on average."

 

There's more, but I'll just leave it at that.

 

We also need to keep a strong military so we do not get overpowered, and our way of life as you know it will cease.

 

Debt is the biggest national security threat. The military doesn't create wealth. It reminds me of how entrenched companies are in the Mexican government, since Republicans don't want to let go of their baby. It's even more humorous seeing them trying to defend the generous retirement system when the Pentagon panel concluded that it was too generous and unfair. It's only bad if it's a union!

[hazeh]

I'm sorry, why do we need a giant over beefed military right now? What war are we in?

 

I just want our soldiers to come home already and stop with this ridiculously unnecessary military defense budget. That needs to be cut down severely.

 

I don't see why it's so wrong that Obama bowed to another leader. That's called respect, not weakness, and if someone views respect as weakness... Well, that says a lot about someone's morality. Obama is a great man and a wonderful person, and I could not imagine someone more American than him. He is the only president that I've seen actually spend time with his fellow Americans from all creeds and classes- and enjoy taking part as a citizen and not just as it's leader. He is one of the People, unlike Romney and all the other Republican candidates.

 

Obama knows the difference between right and wrong and knows to stand up for something that is just. I admire him so much.

 

Some of the wonderful things he's done so far:

• Lifted restrictions granting Cuban Americans unrestricted rights to visit family and send remittances to the island

Provided travel expenses to families of fallen soldiers to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB

Created more private sector jobs in 2010 than during entire Bush years

Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, restoring basic protections against pay discrimination for women and other workers

Signed the Children's Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which provides health care to 11 million kids -- 4 million of whom were previously uninsured

You guys need Obama. You have no idea how badly your country looks to the rest of the world. Obama has given you guys a more humble image that you desperately needed.

 

I'm American and even I can see that. *shakes head*

Edited August 14, 2012 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[Rosedamai]

Could someone explain what Obamacare really is? I keep seeing people saying stuff against it, but I can't really understand what they're really upset about. And-as a person who's not American-I dunno, it just weirds me out when people are like "No free healthcare!" because we have excellent healthcare here. I'd appreciate it if someone gave a brief rundown.

 

(The only interest I have in this topic is because some politicians want to change our healthcare into "the American way" which I'm totally against.)

 

You guys need Obama. You have no idea how badly your country looks to the rest of the world. Obama has given you guys a more humble image that you desperately needed.

 

Seconded.