American Politics

[KageSora]

Kat, soldiers are not a homogenous group of people, please stop referring to them as such. Same goes for Muslims and Mexicans. That is primarily why we keep having problems with what you say. You cannot call for the bombing of all Mexicans and then later say you only meant a select group of people or whatever.

 

This, very much. You should say what you mean and mean what you say, because that's how it's going to be perceived on the internet (and most other places).

 

Both of these. Kat, you keep making blanket statements then backtracking to say you mean a specific group of people when you get called out on it. This has happened multiple times, with multiple people calling you out, and in multiple topics.

 

The thing is, there are people out there who will say "the terrorists" and actually mean every single person in the Middle East, or "the Mexicans" and mean every single Mexican, or refer to Muslims and mean every single Muslim not just the radicals--so if you don't clarify that you only mean certain people, we have no way of knowing if you're actually one of those people and are just trying to cover it up, or if you're honestly just having trouble wording what you want to say.

 

We all have trouble with that--I've had to clarify myself here multiple times due to wording issues on my end. But this seems to happen almost every time you post. There's clearly a communication issue going on here.

 

If you don't want people to assume you're making some rather nasty generalizations, you can't use such broad language. All we have to go on are the words you type. So if you keep using broad language, we don't have enough context to narrow it down ourselves. None of us know your personal life in intimate detail, so we can't use that context to determine what you mean--we can only take what you say at face value, or within the highly limited context we have of your previous posts.

Edited September 23, 2012 by KageSora

[skauble]

On a side note, here, to all my voting friends - Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Libertarians, Tea Partiers, Green Partiers, Constitutionites, and all others:

 

Every vote's important, no matter who it's for, so take a moment to check and see if there are any new voting rules in your state so that you can get yourself all set for election day early on.

 

Election Protection

 

Cost of Freedom

 

We're probably all good to go here, but it never hurts to double check. And two things:

 

1. Make sure to note if your state doesn't have a Voter ID law. Some of them have been put on hold and it's been kind of confusing for poll workers, so they may ask for an ID anyway. So know ahead of time if there's no current law in effect when you get to the polls so you can let them know if they've got it wrong.

 

2. If you don't have the ID necessary, or know someone who doesn't, and can't get it by election time, check to see if your state offers a free card or if they'll let you vote if you meet other requirements. Some states will.

 

Pass the links to family and friends so that everyone gets counted.

 

 

Skauble, that was very... what's the word? Sad and heartwarming at the same time is the closest I can get. Sad, because of what the war did to your father. But I found his outlook on life to be very heartwarming. He is so very right, too.

Yeah, he was awesome like that. Especially considering he was a super nutty conspiracy theorist. And he did get to raise his fourth child and finally found an amazing woman, and he died of a heart attack that was very quick, so he didn't suffer. So he worked it out in the end.

[Vhale]

/agree

 

Thank you for sharing that Skauble

 

This is something interesting that came up today. The Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson is suing to be included in the Presidential Debates. The basis being anti-trust laws. Random Article I don't agree with his views in particular or no, but I'd be happy to see an alternate voice up there.

 

Also, looks like more people are picking up on the True the Vote issue. Article

 

Early voting is up in several states. Personally, I think people should wait for the debates, but if you are sure you know what you want, go vote! Go Vote!

 

Idaho, South Dakota, and the crucial swing state of Virginia are the first states to begin early, in-person voting today.

 

Also today, absentee voting begins in Minnesota, West Virginia, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Georgia, Arkansas, Idaho, and Maryland, bringing the total number of states already accepting ballots to 13. Twelve others -- South Carolina, New Jersey, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, New Hampshire, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Delaware, Louisiana, and Missouri -- will begin absentee or early voting Saturday.

Advertise | AdChoices

 

That means, by tomorrow, half the country will be casting votes. By the end of the month, voters in 30 states will be voting already.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Vhale

[Kestra15]

Why is it, the Mexicans and everyone else wants to live here in the Good Ole USA!!!!

We don't. You can keep your broken country.

Those of you that post on here, are you in the Military, are you willing to go and fight ...  do you know how a soldier feels!!!

No, and neither are you. But I have been helping with the rehabilitation of injured soldiers for years, have parents, grandparents, great-grandparents in the military, went to a military school, was trained to excel in the military by military officers and non-coms alike. So I might know a thing or two about how they feel, especially the ones who have watched their best friends die and their own lives destroyed over pointless wars with extremists. And not one of them has ever taken the ridiculously-extreme view you do. All of them have always made it clear they don't hate the Iraqi/Afghani/Islamic people - that it is the actions of a few extremists, nothing more.

 

But I'm not sure why I'm bothering to post this. Again. You just ignore it every time.

Example, lets say a baby 2 yrs old is sent out to the USA troops with a bomb strapped on him/her. What are you going to do. Let me tell you what choice you have. The child is going to die PERIOD. My son was taught and I told him the same thing, shoot to kill that baby in one shot, and keep on trucking, your life or theirs. This is the truth of war with people in that country. Here in America, we can not fathom that happening here, or can we?

And herein lies the ultimate difference between American troops and British troops.

 

British troops are taught that firing your weapon is your last and ultimate resort, that you have to show that there is no other viable option available to you. So a British patrol would stop, make sure that the area is clear and that all civilians are out of harm's way, and then one of them would try to step in and save the child. Disarm the explosives, get them off the child, try and find out who controls the explosives and stop them from using them...shooting the child would not be an option unless everything else has been provably exhausted and that there is a real, immediate threat to life and limb of those around them. And they wouldn't 'keep on trucking.' Shooting down a 2yr old in cold blood, under those circumstances, would be a hell of a mental blow. And you'd have to go back to base, explain why you've discharged your weapon, give a full and accurate account of the situation, justify why your actions were taken, and why you had to take an innocent life.

 

Americans...I despair in their training and their tactics. There's a saying here in the British Army - "All the gear, and no idea." And so often that gets applied to the American forces. You have the best gear, the most gear, the things that make the biggest explosions...and you're not doing too well in Iraq and Afghanistan, are you? Want to know why? It's because Americans don't know how to deal with terrorists.

 

The American Way in combat is to shoot, and keep shooting, until all the bad guys are dead. But you're in a country where you don't know who the bad guys are, so no wonder why so many civilians are getting caught and killed, so many mistakes are being made by your forces, so much hatred and bad press. An American squad will turn up in a random little village with their guns to their shoulders, their hard-hats on, all fierce glares and shouting at anyone in their way...all you do is beget violence and ill feelings.

 

The British are doing pretty well, because we've spent the last fifty years on peace-keeping missions, with fighting in guerilla wars against terrorists. Northern Ireland, Sierra Leone, Bosnia...we've been there, we know what to do. You don't go in angry. you don't go in with your guns up and loaded. You don't shout at the locals. You come along with a smile, your berets on instead of your hard-hats, be welcome and warm to the locals. My father always made sure his men took two things with them in their patrol jeeps - a football, and a pack of 200 cigarettes. The football so the kids can have a kick-around with each other and the troops, and the cigarettes so they can relax and smoke with the men of the village. It's called 'hearts and minds.'

 

Why are we trying to win 'hearts and minds?' Because the locals are just as much the victims as we are. The terrorists are few in number, but because they're on home ground and they control the region, the reign through fear. Hence 'terror' - ist. The locals are scared into submission, threatened, killed, tortured, all to make sure that those few 'evil' people continue to have control. So we're fighting back on the right level there - show the locals that we're there to help, we want to help, we understand that it's not 'every Afghani is a terrorist,' but that they are as human and decent as we are.

 

And then the Americans come along, bullying or scaring everyone they meet with their aggression and their guns and their self-righteous attitude, and wonder why they get no co-operation...

 

That's why my rather extensive knowledge and experience with military personnel makes me think that you really do not understand what we are trying to do in this countries, why I think your attitude is completely the wrong one, and why I despair sometimes in your extremist comments. You seem to believes yours is the only True Way and you want to use violence to see your means achieved...and yet you can't see that is precisely the attitude of the very people you deplore. They think that America threatens their way of life - the True Way of life - and are afraid to lose their empire, their money, and so are using violence to fight back - just like you.

 

Once again, not sure why I'm wasting my time writing this. You never seem to read it anyway.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Kestra15

[brairtrainer]

On a side note, here, to all my voting friends - Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Libertarians, Tea Partiers, Green Partiers, Constitutionites, and all others:

 

Every vote's important, no matter who it's for, so take a moment to check and see if there are any new voting rules in your state so that you can get yourself all set for election day early on.

 

Election Protection

 

Cost of Freedom

 

We're probably all good to go here, but it never hurts to double check. And two things:

 

1. Make sure to note if your state doesn't have a Voter ID law. Some of them have been put on hold and it's been kind of confusing for poll workers, so they may ask for an ID anyway. So know ahead of time if there's no current law in effect when you get to the polls so you can let them know if they've got it wrong.

 

2. If you don't have the ID necessary, or know someone who doesn't, and can't get it by election time, check to see if your state offers a free card or if they'll let you vote if you meet other requirements. Some states will.

 

Pass the links to family and friends so that everyone gets counted.

 

 

 

Yeah, he was awesome like that. Especially considering he was a super nutty conspiracy theorist. And he did get to raise his fourth child and finally found an amazing woman, and he died of a heart attack that was very quick, so he didn't suffer. So he worked it out in the end.

Just a note, Ohio already has a voter id law that just requires a something that shows the address where you live.

 

Things that show your id, A utility bill in yours or your spouses name, your drivers lisence or a state id, and a number of other things so people anyone will at least have something to use to vote. We had a woman who showed up with her rent bill who was able to vote because it proved her address.

 

Not all voter ids call for drivers licenses, but that better not be the only id allowed if a law is passed.

[inlaterdays]

@kestra15 - thank you. Our troops could learn a lot from your military if only the higher-ups didn't think they already knew everything.

 

@kat - I won't reply to most of your post, since you didn't bother to read the content of mine and instead fired back a volley of insults and put-downs (and there's no sense replying to those), except for this part:

 

NO, I am not a soldier, but if I was, I believe like my son does.

 

You don't know that. I understand that you want to believe that, and it might be true, but it might not. You never know how you, personally, are going to react in an extreme situation until you are in that situation.

 

No, what you do not understand is the TERRORIST AND THE RADICALS.

 

I understand that those buzzwords frighten you very much and seem to make you forget sometimes that people are people, and I am sorry. I'm very sorry that you're so frightened. I think a lot of your seeming anger comes from fear.

 

Have you ever fought?

 

That depends on what you mean by 'fought'. Has my life ever been in danger from another person? Yes, unfortunately. Have I ever enlisted in the military? No, I'm not qualified for medical reasons. (I have Meniere's Disease, an inner ear/balance problem.)

 

I'm in the exact same position as you are: I've had family in the military but I have never been a soldier myself. One of my relatives had very bad PTSD, and he was very eager to fight initially.

 

Other people have already responded to the other factual parts of your post, so I will leave that alone.

 

Please do not insult me. It's against the forum rules. And I don't like being called "hon" as a belittlement; only by people I know well, so I would appreciate if you would not do that again. Thanks.

 

(And yes, I do believe the Westboro Baptist Churuch are emotional terrorists. They cause lots of harm and offense to grieving families and they are -glad- about it.)

[prairiecrow]

Speaking of American conduct in the Middle East, casting waaaaay back to when the war with Iraq started... I stilll remember the international horror and outcry when American troops overrode and destroyed archeological sites, and later permitted the looting of local museums of some of the oldest archeological treasures of the region -- and the American government stood by and did nothing, saying it didn't matter.

 

That attitude is part of the reason why America has (in some quarters) the international reputation it does, as a ham-fisted bully with really screwed up priorities. Those treasures are gone, many of them broken down for their gold and jewels, and can never be replaced. That's part of the memory of our species, of some of the greatest civilizations of the ancient world, gone forever.

Edited September 23, 2012 by prairiecrow

[Rosedamai]

Those of you that post on here, are you in the Military, are you willing to go and fight ...  do you know how a soldier feels!!!

I guess you assume that I, as a young woman, know next to nothing about the ways of war and has an idealistic version of how the world works.

 

I actually find your repeated questions as to whether people here have someone who was or has been a soldier, assuming that no one does and then holding up your two sons as some sort of shining beacon of soldierhood quite amusing because guess what? My country has mandatory military service. Almost every man I know over the age of 22 has been a soldier, so I do know how they feel, although as a female and thus exempt from mandatory military service I will never know exactly what they feel and how, thank you very much. Almost none of them are as aggressive as what your version of the military should be and thank god for that or else we would have beem nuked a long time ago. Most people over the age of 70 has participated in the Korean war whether they were victims or soldiers or what have you. Many people don't even want to talk about it as it is too traumatic.

Edited September 23, 2012 by ylangylang

[demonicvampiregirl]

Just a note, Ohio already has a voter id law that just requires a something that shows the address where you live.

 

Things that show your id, A utility bill in yours or your spouses name, your drivers lisence or a state id, and a number of other things so people anyone will at least have something to use to vote. We had a woman who showed up with her rent bill who was able to vote because it proved her address.

 

Not all voter ids call for drivers licenses, but that better not be the only id allowed if a law is passed.

You live in Ohio or know about it?

 

My parents were talking about me getting registered for it this time as when I turned 18 it was in 09 after it was all done. Dx

[Syaoransbear]

Why is it, the Mexicans and everyone else wants to live here in the Good Ole USA!!!!

For some mexicans, it's a split between needing a job and proximity. For the rest of the world: No one else wants to live in america unless they have some sort of job opportunity there. No one wants to go there for your culture, ideals, or society.

 

Those of you that post on here, are you in the Military, are you willing to go and fight ...  do you know how a soldier feels!!!

Why would I fight for a war another country started that I don't believe in?

 

My brother was in the military, and a very old friend of mine who is an american was in the military that I talked with frequently while he was deployed. I'm betting we have the same amount of second hand experience, and NEITHER of us know how a soldier feels, so don't pretend that you do.

[demonicvampiregirl]

For some mexicans, it's a split between needing a job and proximity. For the rest of the world: No one else wants to live in america unless they have some sort of job opportunity there. No one wants to go there for your culture, ideals, or society.

 

 

Why would I fight for a war another country started that I don't believe in?

 

My brother was in the military, and a very old friend of mine who is an american was in the military that I talked with frequently while he was deployed. I'm betting we have the same amount of second hand experience, and NEITHER of us know how a soldier feels, so don't pretend that you do.

For some reason some of the posts are coming off anti-american. Maybe I'm reading them wrong. Dx

 

Edit: again this is just how they are coming off lately from some. Not saying you are as I don't know just they seem to have that feeling to them.

 

I fully agree with the second part though. I don't see how anyone can know what they went through when they wasn't with them at the time. :/

Edited September 24, 2012 by demonicvampiregirl

[Syaoransbear]

For some reason some of the posts are coming off anti-american. Maybe I'm reading them wrong. Dx

 

I fully agree with the second part though. I don't see how anyone can know what they went through when they wasn't with them at the time. :/

Well America gets so much international publicity about their culture and society that you really don't need to go to america to experience it. That culture has spread quite a bit to other countries already. Especially for someone like me, because I live in Canada and our cultures are pretty close.

 

If I went to Italy I would be genuinely interested in their culture and I'd want to hang around for a while. If I went to the US I would probably just sight see and buy cheap booze. Or I'd go to Texas hoping to meet someone exactly like Hank Hill who is my all-time hero .

[demonicvampiregirl]

Well America gets so much international publicity about their culture and society that you really don't need to go to america to experience it. That culture has spread quite a bit to other countries already. Especially for someone like me, because I live in Canada and our cultures are pretty close.

 

If I went to Italy I would be genuinely interested in their culture and I'd want to hang around for a while. If I went to the US I would probably just sight see and buy cheap booze. Or I'd go to Texas hoping to meet someone exactly like Hank Hill who is my all-time hero .

I love and miss that show!!!

 

Anyway I can agree sadly. I'd love to visit Ireland. Another place would be South Korea as I've gotten interested in Kpop lately and would love to see South Korea.

 

I literally cannot say I know much about Canada. I know they have decent healthcare (probably a understatement) and allow gays to get married (or at least I think not so sure).

 

I kinda wish America would take a look at some other countries government and learn where the mistakes are here. Everyone is so driven to make a dime off something that it never gets any better. I don't even like living here most days. There's murders, rapes, break-ins, and more crap going on each day anymore and it's making me sick.

[Rosedamai]

Another place would be South Korea as I've gotten interested in Kpop lately and would love to see South Korea.

Oh, uh, if you come to SKorea expecting Kpoppy stuff you might be in for a bit of a downer(and that's a huge understatement).

 

Anyways-I wonder if I came off as Anti-American. I personally don't consider myself as such, but I do know that a lot of people resent the American Way, when said American Way consists of basically what we feel an obnoxious feel to it. Best exemplified by the weirdo at the airport I saw on the other day who loudly wondered why everyone around him wasn't speaking English. Uh...you're in another country? Lol.

Edited September 24, 2012 by ylangylang

[brairtrainer]

You live in Ohio or know about it?

 

My parents were talking about me getting registered for it this time as when I turned 18 it was in 09 after it was all done. Dx

Live in Ohio and helped run an election. We had a guy who came in needing to vote but he didn't have his drivers license because he wasn't supposed to be driving because of an injury. We told him we needed some form of id. He came back with a car registration, and that was enough for us.

[Fuzzbucket]

Anyways-I wonder if I came off as Anti-American. I personally don't consider myself as such, but I do know that a lot of people resent the American Way, when said American Way consists of basically what we feel an obnoxious feel to it. Best exemplified by the weirdo at the airport I saw on the other day who loudly wondered why everyone around him wasn't speaking English. Uh...you're in another country? Lol.

Not so much the American way as the actions of the government. There was an excellent letter today in the Independent - one of the best UK newspapers. I quote in case it vanishes:

 

The video at the centre of the violent demonstrations across the Muslim world, is undoubtedly "reprehensible" in the words of Hillary Clinton, but it pales into insignificance against the abuses that the US and its allies have perpetrated in the Middle East, particularly in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is that which has made the West so despised by Muslims that the slightest provocation leads to violence.

 

Warning for language in beginning link - scroll down

 

THIS is what gets to people in other countries. And MOST Americans I know would happily have signed that letter. Most American individuals I know - and I know a lot - are heartily sick of what is being done in their name.

 

The other thing of course, is that the frightened people in this thread who want revenge for things have been taught to fear the bogeyman - labelled terrorist, drug baron and the rest - by the media - who lead their readers/viewers into fear and loathing and into tarring huge groups of people with the sins of a minuscule few. The media have their agenda. We do NOT have to buy into that. But then governments use it to back up their actions - as Tony Blair did in the UK when he joined in the illegal invasion - records show that he actually convinced Bush to do it, and that Bush actually wasn't going to be so stupid - but then he asked Blair's advice... (Can't find the link just now, but it came as a great surprise to me...)

 

I am reminded of a post I saw in another forum which stunned everyone into horrified silence for almost 24 hours: "I watch Fox News, so I know I get the truth." That is so scary it isn't even funny.

Edited September 24, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[inlaterdays]

I don't think you guys sound anti-US-people (you talk quite nicely with those of us in the thread) so much as anti-US-rhetoric and past actions, which a lot of us in the US are anti- also.

 

I hope that sentence made some kind of sense. I woke up late and am uncaffeinated.

 

...That sentence about Faux News (to use its nickname) would be funny if it weren't so downright scary. :/

Edited September 24, 2012 by inlaterdays

[demonicvampiregirl]

I don't think you guys sound anti-US-people (you talk quite nicely with those of us in the thread) so much as anti-US-rhetoric and past actions, which a lot of us in the US are anti- also.

 

I hope that sentence made some kind of sense. I woke up late and am uncaffeinated.

 

...That sentence about Faux News (to use its nickname) would be funny if it weren't so downright scary. :/

I'm just saying some of the posts are coming off as that right now. Again I may be taking it out of context badly. Dx

 

Live in Ohio and helped run an election. We had a guy who came in needing to vote but he didn't have his drivers license because he wasn't supposed to be driving because of an injury. We told him we needed some form of id. He came back with a car registration, and that was enough for us.

 

I live in Ohio as well.

 

I don't have a car, license or any ID so yeah.

 

Oh, uh, if you come to SKorea expecting Kpoppy stuff you might be in for a bit of a downer(and that's a huge understatement).

 

Anyways-I wonder if I came off as Anti-American. I personally don't consider myself as such, but I do know that a lot of people resent the American Way, when said American Way consists of basically what we feel an obnoxious feel to it. Best exemplified by the weirdo at the airport I saw on the other day who loudly wondered why everyone around him wasn't speaking English. Uh...you're in another country? Lol.

 

Oh no I'm not expecting it to be LIKE that. I just want to see the area it comes from just to see what the culture really looks like. I don't expect it to be like the music I listen to.

 

Yeah I don't get that either. Not everyone is going to be speaking English.

 

And no you don't just some of the posts, again to me, sounded like it. I'm probably taking it waaay out of context.

 

I am reminded of a post I saw in another forum which stunned everyone into horrified silence for almost 24 hours: "I watch Fox News, so I know I get the truth." That is so scary it isn't even funny.

 

Oh dear... There is not much you can say to that statement that can be put down on a forum....

Edited September 24, 2012 by demonicvampiregirl

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't think you guys sound anti-US-people (you talk quite nicely with those of us in the thread) so much as anti-US-rhetoric and past actions, which a lot of us in the US are anti- also.

 

I hope that sentence made some kind of sense. I woke up late and am uncaffeinated.

 

...That sentence about Faux News (to use its nickname) would be funny if it weren't so downright scary. :/

Right on ! I really enjoy your posts. There is hope for the US with people like you in there. You are like almost every American I actually know. You understand what is actually going on and why others might not be too thrilled at what your government does in your name. Which is what so many in other countries - especially those who have been bombed and invaded - object to right along with you.

[demonicvampiregirl]

Right on ! I really enjoy your posts. There is hope for the US with people like you in there. You are like almost every American I actually know. You understand what is actually going on and why others might not be too thrilled at what your government does in your name. Which is what so many in other countries - especially those who have been bombed and invaded - object to right along with you.

Yeah but unless people like that start getting elected I don't think we will ever get out of this state that we are in. It's all the people with money that do and they don't got a clue what it's like for the working class at all. :/

[brairtrainer]

Yeah but unless people like that start getting elected I don't think we will ever get out of this state that we are in. It's all the people with money that do and they don't got a clue what it's like for the working class at all. :/

This is so true, which is why we need to elect people that aren't from the main two parties into office. We need to upset the status quo.

[Fuzzbucket]

Yeah but unless people like that start getting elected I don't think we will ever get out of this state that we are in. It's all the people with money that do and they don't got a clue what it's like for the working class at all. :/

 

This is so true, which is why we need to elect people that aren't from the main two parties into office. We need to upset the status quo.

Yes ! See - the message is starting to permeate. Go for it ! (We need to do that in the UK too !)

[Vhale]

I don't see the posts as anti-american. There's nothing wrong with pointing out where the US has stumbled. Fact is, we're on the bottom of most charts compared to other countries. I think most of the posts have been incredibly diplomatic in the face of some very rude and ignorant comments. I feel like I've learned a thing or two about being a gentle poster from it and it is appreciated.

 

It does make me wonder, if any of you in other countries are studying, or know people studying what's been happening over here with the slow creep of propaganda. The Post-Truth era, as it's called.

[skauble]

For some reason some of the posts are coming off anti-american. Maybe I'm reading them wrong. Dx

 

Edit: again this is just how they are coming off lately from some. Not saying you are as I don't know just they seem to have that feeling to them.

 

I fully agree with the second part though. I don't see how anyone can know what they went through when they wasn't with them at the time. :/

IMO, the reason that a lot of posts seem anti-America is because a lot of them are. And they should be. We've wrapped ourselves up in the idea of "American Exceptionalism" for so long that it's necessary for it to be pointed out that a. we don't own the world, and b. everything we do is not good - things that, as a country we don't compute. And, yeah, there's a lot of us saying it from the inside, but this mantra of "they hate us because they're jealous" that we've got going on needs to be challenged pretty consistently.

 

That aside, why is it occasionally grating? Because lots of the other countries out there have done/are doing some fantastically not good things themselves, and it can be odd hearing people call you out on things that their countries have done, are doing, have helped us do.

 

For instance, a page back I mentioned America aiding Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons. Well, we were hardly the only country involved with that. There's blood on the hands of people all over the world in that regard.

 

It reminds me of something that John Stewart said in a discussion forum at which he was speaking. He said that he always felt that a lot of the criticisms about American Imperialism from Europe are rather hypocritical. He said that it reminded him of that commercial where the dad smokes pot and then catches his son doing it and demands to know where he learned about it, to which the son responds "I learned it from watching you, Dad".

 

And that, like a lot of things he he says, is both funny and true. For instance, I love the UK, but there's a world's record - and I mean an actual Guinness World's Record - for most countries to have gained independence from the same country, that country being England. So while they're definitely right to talk about the utter arrogance of modern American Imperialism, it is sometimes hard to ignore that they used the word "Empire" in their name - in a literal sense - not all that long ago.

 

In the end, the reality is that the U.S. is uniquely dangerous, because we've so completely deluded ourselves that we provide freedom everywhere we go, that it's our duty, and that those people want that. Those beliefs allow us to justify pretty much everything we do, so I'm totally in support of critique and/or condemnation of the U.S. until enough of us are doing it internally to shift the national mindset.

 

But, frankly, I understand how every once in a while it pings something in the background, too.

[Fuzzbucket]

Yes, skauble. The UK in the form of Tony Blair in particular was guilty of truly APPALLING crap - and as I said - may have actually talked BUSH into some of the worst of his.

 

And let's face it - the UK was one of two countries (yes, OK the US was the other !) who armed the Taliban to try and get rid of a government they didn't like - and then changed their mind. Same with Saddam Hussein - he was everyone's best friend and got loads of weaponry from the US and UK - and then we decided we didn't like him after all - and he was suggesting cutting off our OIL supply !!! shock horror - so blitzed him instead (but only after the West in general imposed sanctions so severe that we had already made life there pretty foul.)

 

I guess the difference is (in comparing these particular two countries) that the US government does seem to feel it owns the world, while the UK government just wishes it still did (see what you said about the countries who got independence from the UK after we had exploited them to all get out !) and so the UK just bullies people whenever it gets the chance. Not least its own citizens

 

It's the idea that the US style of government is best for everyone that is so daft. Because it isn't. It's almost like saying heterosexual marriage is best for gay people because that is the kind of marriage you are in yourself. Also, of course, they "bring democracy" and "free people" - until the day that those free people elect a government that isn't the one they were SUPPOSED to elect (like Hamas, for instance) - then all of a sudden they get to be the bad guys all over again.