American Politics

[TikindiDragon]

It does not matter what links I put up, or what I say ... most of you, not all, do not agree with me, and it does not bother me.

 

Maybe it is because I watch a lot of TV concerning the news, news paper and radio on many things such as "socialism" and mexican drug barons and terrorists and more. My sister is also a history major and we talk all the time.

*Shrugs* And?

 

The fact that we don't agree with you doesn't mean we're uneducated. Or that we don't watch the news. Or that we don't talk to intelligent people. It just means we disagree with you.

 

Although I really *would* like you to explain how on earth you think electricity prices are connected to welfare costs. I both live in a country with much more of a welfare state than you have in the US, *and* work for an energy company.

[skauble]

Though this electricity bill thing is awesomely confusing. 

I believe it's about, at least in part, things like Romney's claim that utility prices rose under Obama.

 

Energy actually is a facet of this election, especially the aspect of older types vs newer, greener kinds, and domestic vs foreign reliance. Some of that is about what we pay, but some of it is about the ideological divide between people who want to be "environmentally responsible" and people who believe that a lot of what is considered environmentally friendly is really just facts and figures either twisted or invented by the other side to advance their own agenda. Add to that the arguments about how many jobs will be added/lost depending on which way we go (and who you ask) and you've got a fairly hot button issue.

 

All in all, it may not be such a huge deal as far as the prices go because, according to the link above, while some utility prices have risen, it also makes the point that some did under Bush, too.

[Fuzzbucket]

And what about those who dropped out of school to care for their sick, elderly relatives? Who had to go out and work because they lost their parents and were responsible for looking after little brother and sister? Who were pulled out of school because the prohibitive costs of education was putting an already-struggling family into debt? Those who became too ill to attend school and never managed to find a way back in? Those who were bullied out and lost all courage to find education?

 

I could go on all day with such examples.

 

You have heard of disinformation and media spin, right? And a History Major does not make you a Current Affairs expert, let alone talking to one.

I'm not being sarcastic at all. Fear is a terrible thing. So is media disinformation. Most US TV is shockingly biased. Faux News (I love that; thanks to whoever told me it had earned the name !) to name but one.

 

One of the best news channels in the world - and contrary to much popular opinion, very accurate and unbiased - is Al Jazeera. Sadly it isn't good on the internal political affairs of other countries, but for international news I think it is second to none, now that the BBC has dumbed down rather. EuroNews is another good one. Chicken Noodle News, on the other hand.... As for newspapers - I'm not sure which in the US are any good; in the UK the Independent - which gives a full range of conflicting views, and the Financial Times are the most reliable and unbiased. Most of the others - even including the Times - have their own point of view, which colours their reporting rather...

 

I am very highly formally educated - and I also know a lot of people who had to drop out of school and who still take the trouble to get themselves the accurate information we all need to make choices. Sometimes they read something that changes their minds - as do I. More people need to do that.

Edited October 3, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Kestra15]

My favourite sources of news are Mock the Week, Have I Got News For You and Russell Howard's Good News :~D

[Fuzzbucket]

My favourite sources of news are Mock the Week, Have I Got News For You and Russell Howard's Good News :~D

I don't think HIGNFY would be quite what I would base my vote on.

 

Then again after seeing a few politicians on there - OK, fair enough !

[~Kat~]

*Shrugs* And?

 

The fact that we don't agree with you doesn't mean we're uneducated. Or that we don't watch the news. Or that we don't talk to intelligent people. It just means we disagree with you.

 

You are right. I did not say that any of you were uneducated, so please do not post like I did,

Edited October 3, 2012 by ~Kat~

[Kestra15]

You are right. I did not say that any of you were uneducated, sp please do not post like I did,

But that is the inference you continually give; that because we're younger than you, because we don't watch your desired news channels, and because we don't talk to a History Major, we can't know as much as you nor are we as educated as you. Now, I'm 25yrs old and already on my fourth university-level course, having passed the other three magnificently, so you can imagine how offended I feel by those inferences. Let alone, as Tiki pointed out, that by listening to biased news channels that you somehow know more than people who work in that industry. That, and you never take on board anything we post as counter-point or any examples we give, makes a lot of us feel rather put-out by your posts.

 

For example, your inference you know more about the military than any of us; you've *never* seemed to respond to my replies and continue to act as if I know nothing about the military, despite my own experiences. It's as if you either don't read what we post, can't be bothered to reply, or - worst of all - you seem to believe that what we experience can't be as in-depth as yours. And since you never say anything, we don't know which it is.

 

If you responded a bit more to our posts we'd understand you a little more and perhaps there would be less mis-understandings. We can only work on what you give us.

[brairtrainer]

Says the person who is against abortions if the person "didn't do anything to prevent it."

 

My main problem with your logic here is that any schooling after High School COSTS MONEY. Something that nearly everyone is short on. If you want people to get jobs and contribute their "fair share" to society, make education FREE.

 

It's nigh impossible to make a living when school costs so much. You start out in debt if you've gotten any kind of degree and don't have enough scholarships to cover the costs of education.

 

So, while education is mandatory for students until they turn 18, a High School diploma or GED isn't much anymore. Standards are being raised, and people can't keep up with them.

 

Anyway... to whoever said that effort in finding a job should be shown when you're collecting unemployment... I agree entirely. This is why there are some companies (like Walgreens), that have a system that lets the hiring manager know how in need of a job you are if you apply online, because it asks you a series of questions relating to welfare, unemployment, and the like. I think a lot of companies should do this, so that way the people who needs jobs the most are being hired. (Which is somewhat of a bitter subject for me, since I can't find a place that's willing to hire me over the town's college students... Multiple people I know are having this problem.)

My Boyfriend is having the opposite problem as you. For every job he applied to last year he was told that they had a better canidate and they hired someone who was older who'd lost their job. Props to the company for doing that but, with being in a college town where the school brings in a majority of the towns income and the college students fighting for jobs its really caused problems including, (1) students working places where they could have an allergic reaction just so they can have a steady income (friend of mine), (2) driving to cedar point and doing odd jobs there(seasonal work), (3) going home each weekend for a job which may or not be seasonal(my boyfriend), (4) going without a job and trying to find ways to cover expenses, (5) fallling for scams :/ (happens every where but when the school starts bring in the people who run them...well ).

 

Heck, most of the jobs at my school are student only and I had to fight to get the job I have. Most are having to go off campus but the majority don't have cars here.

[Fuzzbucket]

But that is the inference you continually give; that because we're younger than you, because we don't watch your desired news channels, and because we don't talk to a History Major, we can't know as much as you nor are we as educated as you. Now, I'm 25yrs old and already on my fourth university-level course, having passed the other three magnificently, so you can imagine how offended I feel by those inferences. Let alone, as Tiki pointed out, that by listening to biased news channels that you somehow know more than people who work in that industry. That, and you never take on board anything we post as counter-point or any examples we give, makes a lot of us feel rather put-out by your posts.

 

For example, your inference you know more about the military than any of us; you've *never* seemed to respond to my replies and continue to act as if I know nothing about the military, despite my own experiences. It's as if you either don't read what we post, can't be bothered to reply, or - worst of all - you seem to believe that what we experience can't be as in-depth as yours. And since you never say anything, we don't know which it is.

 

If you responded a bit more to our posts we'd understand you a little more and perhaps there would be less mis-understandings. We can only work on what you give us.

67 (almost 68) with two postgraduate degrees and a slew of diplomas, and I get out and TALK to ACTUAL live politicians as well as following unbiased news channels and checking up any links I read with other links on the same topic to get another view before I believe any of them.

 

Worked in the health service for 20 years and for a doctor before that - am trained as a teacher (only practised briefly as my progressive deafness made it increasingly hard); have been unemployed, have had a mortgage, been in debt and paid it off. Lived in two countries with decent welfare and health provisions - and thank goodness and everything else for that.

 

I could go on but I need to go wash the car.....

 

And by the way, that reminds me - energy prices are going up partly because of the greed of shareholders, but partly also because resources ARE finite and until we invest in renewables, the price of non-renewables will go up as supply diminishes.

[Rosedamai]

But that is the inference you continually give; that because we're younger than you, because we don't watch your desired news channels, and because we don't talk to a History Major, we can't know as much as you nor are we as educated as you. Now, I'm 25yrs old and already on my fourth university-level course, having passed the other three magnificently, so you can imagine how offended I feel by those inferences. Let alone, as Tiki pointed out, that by listening to biased news channels that you somehow know more than people who work in that industry. That, and you never take on board anything we post as counter-point or any examples we give, makes a lot of us feel rather put-out by your posts.

 

For example, your inference you know more about the military than any of us; you've *never* seemed to respond to my replies and continue to act as if I know nothing about the military, despite my own experiences. It's as if you either don't read what we post, can't be bothered to reply, or - worst of all - you seem to believe that what we experience can't be as in-depth as yours. And since you never say anything, we don't know which it is.

Exactly. On the subject of the military alone I bet I have more knowledge than you do. My country's at war, all males have mandatory military service, and although civilians don't get access to many military stuff if I call any male friend or male family member I know I'd be getting more than enough info, and subtly that mindset of a country at war is always on the backs of our heads....need I say more?

Edited October 3, 2012 by ylangylang

[Kestra15]

My Boyfriend is having the opposite problem as you. For every job he applied to last year he was told that they had a better canidate and they hired someone who was older who'd lost their job. Props to the company for doing that but, with being in a college town where the school brings in a majority of the towns income and the college students fighting for jobs its really caused problems including, (1) students working places where they could have an allergic reaction just so they can have a steady income (friend of mine), (2) driving to cedar point and doing odd jobs there(seasonal work), (3) going home each weekend for a job which may or not be seasonal(my boyfriend), (4) going without a job and trying to find ways to cover expenses, (5) fallling for scams :/ (happens every where but when the school starts bring in the people who run them...well ).

 

Heck, most of the jobs at my school are student only and I had to fight to get the job I have. Most are having to go off campus but the majority don't have cars here.

It is the sensible thing to do at the moment, which is why we have so many graduates out of a job. Ten years ago I would have been a perfect candidate for a job; freshly educated, voluntary work galore, a wide base of skills. But currently an employer would rather employ the guy who may be less well-educated or less fresh with his acadamia, but has got twenty years' experience, than me.

 

In five years or so, should we recover from the recession, all us young people should find ourselves being able to pick and choose our jobs once more. But here and now companies would rather take the more mature, experienced person than the better-educated but woefully-inexperienced.

[brairtrainer]

It is the sensible thing to do at the moment, which is why we have so many graduates out of a job. Ten years ago I would have been a perfect candidate for a job; freshly educated, voluntary work galore, a wide base of skills. But currently an employer would rather employ the guy who may be less well-educated or less fresh with his acadamia, but has got twenty years' experience, than me.

 

In five years or so, should we recover from the recession, all us young people should find ourselves being able to pick and choose our jobs once more. But here and now companies would rather take the more mature, experienced person than the better-educated but woefully-inexperienced.

I hope so, I'm looking at going to grad school, and if I can't hold a job while there I'm toast.

 

I feel worse for my boyfriend right now though, his parents say the only reason he doesn't have a job is because he's lazy and not looking. He's looking so much that his grades have started to suffer...his time put aside for studying is now for looking for work, which doesn't help him.

[~Kat~]

But that is the inference you continually give; that because we're younger than you, because we don't watch your desired news channels, and because we don't talk to a History Major, we can't know as much as you nor are we as educated as you. Now, I'm 25yrs old and already on my fourth university-level course, having passed the other three magnificently, so you can imagine how offended I feel by those inferences. Let alone, as Tiki pointed out, that by listening to biased news channels that you somehow know more than people who work in that industry. That, and you never take on board anything we post as counter-point or any examples we give, makes a lot of us feel rather put-out by your posts.

 

For example, your inference you know more about the military than any of us; you've *never* seemed to respond to my replies and continue to act as if I know nothing about the military, despite my own experiences. It's as if you either don't read what we post, can't be bothered to reply, or - worst of all - you seem to believe that what we experience can't be as in-depth as yours. And since you never say anything, we don't know which it is.

 

If you responded a bit more to our posts we'd understand you a little more and perhaps there would be less mis-understandings. We can only work on what you give us.

I find you all very intelligent, and congrats on passing your courses Kestra15, I hope you continue to do so.

 

I can not help the way you feel on how I post.

 

I am sorry that some of you feel that I watch biased news channels. Also, I have many family members other than my sons in the military. Maybe it is my age as I am older and talk to mostly the old folks who have been to war and what they think of the economy. One of my sons is hardcore military, even I do not agree with all he says,

 

I learn a lot from my sister who is a history major. I am just letting you know a bit about me, not putting any of you down. I am sorry that I can not word things like some of you would like me to.

 

 

 

 

[Kestra15]

I am sorry that some of you feel that I watch biased news channels. Also, I have many family members other than my sons in the military. Maybe it is my age as I am older and talk to mostly the old folks who have been to war and what they think of the economy. One of my sons is hardcore military, even I do not agree with all he says,

And I have worked to rehabilitate the soldiers who have fought in this war, who have been out there in the last twelve months. My family has fought in this war. One of the RNs in my old ICU is just finishing six months out there, and the Director for my course at uni was out there in 2010 as an RN. So you can understand why I feel quite emphatic in particular about the military claims; I have some fairly up-to-date knowledge about the wars going on here and now.

 

If we were debating Vietnam and other campaigns from years ago then I would indeed say you have the superior knowledge in that case - no argument there. My family didn't fight in those, being British and not American, so I only know the generic history - and to be honest, not very well either, since the Vietnam War is just not something important to me at this point in time, nor in my past.

 

It's not that we ask you to reword everything you write - just be aware that you do come across as quite dismissive of our views and reactions when you counter our thoughts and arguments by saying things like 'Well, this is what my son said.' His view is certainly a valid one - he's been out there, not us! - but his is one view among millions.

[brairtrainer]

^this

[TikindiDragon]

You are right. I did not say that any of you were uneducated, so please do not post like I did,

My apologies if that's not what you meant - although I am afraid it *is* how you are coming across. It's hard not to be offended when you post saying something that boils down to 'I do this, this and this' as if it somehow implies that if *we* had done all that we would agree with you.

 

I accept that you have your own experiences and opinions. But please accept that we have had ours. I, personally, like to base my opinions on what I feel is fact - and that is why you'll find some of us challenging you. We're not putting you down, but we *are* disagreeing with you, and we're giving you the facts to back up our disagreement.

 

Given that you replied to that part of my post I would also appreciate a response to the direct implication in your posts that welfare is putting electricity prices up. As I said - I *do* work in that industry, and it's a gross misconception I would like to put right.

 

I assume you, like all of us, would like to be able to base your opinions on fact. I hope you can be willing to recognise when some of us can prove the 'facts' you have been given are inaccurate.

[philpot123]

I'm not being sarcastic at all. Fear is a terrible thing. So is media disinformation. Most US TV is shockingly biased. Faux News (I love that; thanks to whoever told me it had earned the name !) to name but one.

 

One of the best news channels in the world - and contrary to much popular opinion, very accurate and unbiased - is Al Jazeera. Sadly it isn't good on the internal political affairs of other countries, but for international news I think it is second to none, now that the BBC has dumbed down rather. EuroNews is another good one. Chicken Noodle News, on the other hand.... As for newspapers - I'm not sure which in the US are any good; in the UK the Independent - which gives a full range of conflicting views, and the Financial Times are the most reliable and unbiased. Most of the others - even including the Times - have their own point of view, which colours their reporting rather...

 

I am very highly formally educated - and I also know a lot of people who had to drop out of school and who still take the trouble to get themselves the accurate information we all need to make choices. Sometimes they read something that changes their minds - as do I. More people need to do that.

It's funny to me how people always go to fox as the representation for bias, when MSNBC is just as heavily biased and screws up their reports JUST as much, but they're just biased the other way any news network that tries to claim it is "fair" is simply lying. If you find a news source that labels themselves according to what slant they will be writing from, THEN they have a bit more respect in my eyes, even if I don't agree with their position. The mainstream media in America is in a pretty sorry state at the moment...

 

I'm glad you have reliable news sources over there

[Fuzzbucket]

It's funny to me how people always go to fox as the representation for bias, when MSNBC is just as heavily biased and screws up their reports JUST as much, but they're just biased the other way any news network that tries to claim it is "fair" is simply lying. If you find a news source that labels themselves according to what slant they will be writing from, THEN they have a bit more respect in my eyes, even if I don't agree with their position. The mainstream media in America is in a pretty sorry state at the moment...

 

I'm glad you have reliable news sources over there

Our newspapers are APPALLING on the whole.

 

(Oops - MSNBC ? Indeed. I do agree....!)

 

Al Jazeera isn't exactly ours ! It is easy to get on line....

Edited October 3, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[brairtrainer]

Our newspapers are APPALLING on the whole.

 

(Oops - MSNBC ? Indeed. I do agree....!)

 

Al Jazeera isn't exactly ours ! It is easy to get on line....

I tend to get my news from yahoo, though I'm aware that it is biased toward the liberal side the articles tend to be well written and there are places to go and compare things so I don't take them at face value.

[philpot123]

Our newspapers are APPALLING on the whole.

 

(Oops - MSNBC ? Indeed. I do agree....!)

 

Al Jazeera isn't exactly ours ! It is easy to get on line....

Alright, I'll look into it! I have a few independent sites that are usually my go-to places when I hear a story, just checking it between several different places. Although I'll admit, I've pretty much lost interest in the American election. Even the libertarian candidate isn't really a true libertarian, he's essentially a liberal who believes in a free market... So the latest political news is sort of inconsequential to me considering I wouldn't vote for either of the major candidates. Although it is fun to check up on the latest silly things Romney has managed to spew

 

 

On a similar note, dear heavens, think of the alcohol poisoning...

 

Edited October 3, 2012 by philpot123

[brairtrainer]

Alright, I'll look into it! I have a few independent sites that are usually my go-to places when I hear a story, just checking it between several different places. Although I'll admit, I've pretty much lost interest in the American election. Even the libertarian candidate isn't really a true libertarian, he's essentially a liberal who believes in a free market... So the latest political news is sort of inconsequential to me considering I wouldn't vote for either of the major candidates. Although it is fun to check up on the latest silly things Romney has managed to spew

 

 

On a similar note, dear heavens, think of the alcohol poisoning...

 

Oh >.< I can see the headlines right now

 

"Several in hospitals after following a drinking game on the internet....Canidates blamed for saying phrases too much"

[Kestra15]

Oh >.< I can see the headlines right now

 

"Several in hospitals after following a drinking game on the internet....Canidates blamed for saying phrases too much"

I hope Obama sees that and then goes all-out in the debate to get all those phrases in, as often as possible.

[brairtrainer]

May I ask why?

[philpot123]

May I ask why?

Because anyone stupid enough to play a drinking game at the expense of their liver is decidedly silly? I don't know I don't see many people actually doing it though.

[Kestra15]

May I ask why?

For the lulz.