Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[EverAll]

Children even get bullied because they are adopted. A friend of mine a few years back lived in a foster home, and told people around school, she was bullied for that and made fun of. It doesn't make much of a difference WHO adopts them, because many kids are like her, and are bullied solely based on the fact that they are adopted.

 

And then of course, as mentioned. There are those kids who don't get adopted.

 

I'd rather see them end up with a loving family, regardless of who that family is made up of.

 

Bullying will never end, unless we all end up in a world like the "It" in "A Wrinkle in Time" by Madeline L'Engle, if anyone is familiar with that.

 

Me? I've been bullied for my style, my looks and interests since I was younger. Mostly because I don't fit my gender stereotypes.

 

What are you gonna do about that?

Edited February 25, 2012 by EverAll

[foxhead]

You say that you, yourself, have been bullied for being the offspring of an interracial relationship. Does that mean we should prevent people of two races having children, to stop it? For me, I'd say no.

 

I was bullied as a child. I was bullied for the fact that I was slightly overweight. When I was young, I was bullied because I was dyslexic and couldn't read. When I was older, I was bullied because I enjoyed reading and study. I know what its like. But bullying comes from differences, differences which should - and in the 'real world' often are- celebrated.

 

Kids are bullied. That is horrible. But we shouldn't punish the children who could be bullied by restricting them from loving families, and we shouldn't punish potentially loving families from having children because of that. We should continue our efforts to stop bullying at all, not getting rid of all things that make people different. To me, that's just sowing the seeds of discrimination and prejudice.

No, I said that I was in an interracial relationship and I also pointed out that I was contradicting myself with the whole bullying ideology. I've been bullied, too, for many things. I'm aware of what it's like as well. Either way, I suppose it doesn't really matter as long as both the child and the parents are happy.

 

You just see more bullying of kids from same sex parents than you do kids from interracial parents. That's what seems to irk me.

[Alpha1]

I want to marry, because of the legal aspects. And the marriage taxes.

 

Marriage shouldn't be subsidized.

[EverAll]

Marriage shouldn't be subsidized.

That isn't the reason I wish to marry my partner, it is merely a benefit. One that I am equally entitled to as any heterosexual is.

 

My point is, why should heterosexual couples get those benefits, and rights and homosexual couples be barred from them?

 

Did you not read the other half of my post?

 

I would be more than happy to live the rest of my days with her, unmarried if I had to.

 

But with all the legal aspects, marrying is the safest option, if something were to happen to one of us. And, we need to support eachother, no?

 

Throwing our money away wouldn't help our lifestyle.

Edited February 25, 2012 by EverAll

[Alpha1]

That isn't the reason I wish to marry my partner, it is merely a benefit. One that I am equally entitled to as any heterosexual is.

 

My point is, why should heterosexual couples get those benefits, and rights and homosexual couples be barred from them?

 

Did you not read the other half of my post?

I realize that, but why should couples that are married get benefits and the singles get singled out?

 

 

[EverAll]

I realize that, but why should couples that are married get benefits and the singles get singled out?

Bahaha~ I see what you did there ;D

 

I don't quite know, in all honesty.

 

Just seems to be the way things are.

Edited February 25, 2012 by EverAll

[WereJace]

No, I said that I was in an interracial relationship and I also pointed out that I was contradicting myself with the whole bullying ideology. I've been bullied, too, for many things. I'm aware of what it's like as well. Either way, I suppose it doesn't really matter as long as both the child and the parents are happy.

 

You just see more bullying of kids from same sex parents than you do kids from interracial parents. That's what seems to irk me.

Bullying is not the fault of the victim. It is the fault of the abuser and a person who chooses to abuse others should not have their views catered to.

 

I know you've stated that it's your personal belief that same-sex marriage should not be permitted. Do you have a specific reason, or is this based on a gut feeling?

[amberheun]

I totally Support Gay Rights/Marriage!!!

 

I hate how people just call things Gay to use as an adjective just to say 'different' or 'Naive' It is so wrong!!!

 

I really don't know if they passed a law in Wisconsin yet????

 

If they have could someone please tell me???

Because I kinda wanna know!!!

[foxhead]

Bullying is not the fault of the victim. It is the fault of the abuser and a person who chooses to abuse others should not have their views catered to.

 

I know you've stated that it's your personal belief that same-sex marriage should not be permitted. Do you have a specific reason, or is this based on a gut feeling?

No, I do not have a specific reason, as sad as I am to say it. It isn't that I'm intolerant or don't want them to share the same benefits as straight people, no, not at all. They're human, too, and deserve the same treatment.

 

It's like a box of crayons. There's a red crayon and a blue crayon. I happen to like the red crayon more than the blue crayon. Does that make the blue crayon wrong? Different? Unacceptable? Disgusting? No, I just don't like it.

 

In retrospect, marriage isn't all it's cut out to be in the first place. Sure there are some financial benefits, but you don't need an "official ceremony" to pronounce your undying love for someone.

[Katie92]

^ But what if a gay couple wants an official ceremony to mark the moment they joined together? What's your reasoning behind not wanting someone to be able to marry while someone else can?

[7Deadly$ins]

No, I do not have a specific reason, as sad as I am to say it. It isn't that I'm intolerant or don't want them to share the same benefits as straight people, no, not at all. They're human, too, and deserve the same treatment.

 

It's like a box of crayons. There's a red crayon and a blue crayon. I happen to like the red crayon more than the blue crayon. Does that make the blue crayon wrong? Different? Unacceptable? Disgusting? No, I just don't like it.

 

In retrospect, marriage isn't all it's cut out to be in the first place. Sure there are some financial benefits, but you don't need an "official ceremony" to pronounce your undying love for someone.

"Some financial benefits." Good luck getting to easily keep kids you've raised together, then, should your partner die without you being married.

[prairiecrow]

In retrospect, marriage isn't all it's cut out to be in the first place. Sure there are some financial benefits, but you don't need an "official ceremony" to pronounce your undying love for someone.

Legal marriage also gives someone the right to visit their loved one in ICU and to make health care related decisions for them when they're incapacitated. There have been many cases of loving gay partners being denied access to their loved one under these circumstances, having their loved one die without ever being able to see them, and then having their property seized (because of course they have no legal right to it).

 

THAT should be considered a darned good reason to let gay people marry, IMO, because the alternative is inhumane in the extreme.

 

Here's a list of some of the benefits married heterosexuals receive that are denied to unmarried gay couples. Looking at that list, are you in favour of denying these benefits to gay couples?

Edited February 26, 2012 by prairiecrow

[foxhead]

Legal marriage also gives someone the right to visit their loved one in ICU and to make health care related decisions for them when they're incapacitated. There have been many cases of loving gay partners being denied access to their loved one under these circumstances, having their loved one die without ever being able to see them, and then having their property seized (because of course they have no legal right to it).

 

THAT should be considered a darned good reason to let gay people marry, IMO, because the alternative is inhumane in the extreme.

 

Here's a list of some of the benefits married heterosexuals receive that are denied to unmarried gay couples. Looking at that list, are you in favour of denying these benefits to gay couples?

I'm not in favor of denying benefits to anyone. I don't like the idea of homosexual marriage, plain and simple. That doesn't mean I'm a bigot. That doesn't mean I don't want them to have the same benefits. Is it that hard for you guys to understand?

 

IMO, it sounds like you're trying to impose your own beliefs on me. I appreciate your opinion and your strong defense against homosexual marriage, but that isn't going to change what I think.

 

And, 7Deadly$ins, there are people in the world that don't plan on having children, you know.

[prairiecrow]

I'm not in favor of denying benefits to anyone. I don't like the idea of homosexual marriage, plain and simple. That doesn't mean I'm a bigot.

You're quite right: it doesn't make you a bigot, any more than my not liking it (for example) when people prefer mayonnaise on their fries make me a bigot. And that's not a facetious comparison: it's acknowledging that all of us have things that other people do that aren't to our personal tastes.

 

As long as you're not saying that gay people shouldn't be able to eat their fries with mayo because you personally find mayo disgusting, we're all good.

 

What I WAS trying to point out is that denying gay people full marriage under the current law is denying them a range of benefits (not all of them purely financial), and that IMO that's grossly unfair. Since you don't seem to want to deny them those benefits, again, I have no problem with your personal distaste for gay marriage. We're all entitled to our opinions, and sometimes those opinions can't be rationally explained, even to ourselves.

[philpot123]

What if... bear with me for a moment... the state stopped interfering with marriage altogether? The same benefits that are offered to any heterosexual married couple could be extended to any couple that can prove co-habitation. If the couple feels morally or traditionally or personally obligated to have a marriage ceremony, find someone who will perform it for you. Who ever gave the state the right to define marriage? I can tell you right now that the national government doesn't have that power. The states may be ABLE to, but why should they? Why should any government be defining what the institution of marriage is or isn't? To a Christian, like me, the bounds of marriage have already been defined in the Bible. No earthly law is going to change that. But that doesn't mean governments should define it themselves. I have moral objections to homosexuality, I believe I've made that clear enough in my time on these forums, (and I really don't want to argue about that part of it since this thread is about marriage and rights) but I do believe that homosexual couples should be granted the right to marry.

 

Maybe this handy pie chart will help...

 

Edited February 26, 2012 by philpot123

[Princess Artemis]

"Some financial benefits." Good luck getting to easily keep kids you've raised together, then, should your partner die without you being married.

Interestingly enough, this is one of the issues I have with the whole system as it stands. Why on God's green Earth do people have to have leave from the state to marry in order for their children to be recognized as their children?! Children are not the property of the state, to be seized and transferred to other legally recognized state-endorsed caregivers upon the termination of their original legally recognized caregiver's life. They are people, and parents are not made in courtrooms, made by words of art and registered in paper, they are made by things the state cannot govern, cannot quantify, and cannot control.

 

Many, many people in the legal realm recognize this and do everything they can to keep people together when the laws say that this legal entity cannot be attached to that one upon the termination of the another because the two legal entities did not have a legal contract incorporating them into one, but there is only so much they can do.

 

Common law marriage works in this way: You cannot pretend you are not married for your legal benefit if you have been living as if you are married. So no one needs permission for common law marriage, and for matters of transfer of property upon death and rights to children, it strikes me that it should work the same way--if a family has lived as a family, then they are legal recognized as a family. It's all about responsible persons telling the world that this is what we are now and having that recognized, rather than seeking permission to become something and risking denial.

 

Only thing about common law as it applies to same-sex marriage is the definition is currently man and woman only. Seems to me that it would not be difficult to change that, begin recognizing common law again, then any two people of age could be legally recognized as married simply by acting as a married couple.

 

ETA: Basically, what philpot just said as it applies to law.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[hazeh]

Alright, so this is in response to the person who was patiently debating (or, discussing I suppose) the points of gay marriage because of their children being bullied.

 

First off, I am the child of a lesbian couple. And yes, I was bullied.

My moms met when I was about 18 months old; my birth mom was a single mother at that time and worked really hard to make ends meet. She and my other mom fell in love and decided to stay together. And they are wonderful people; now that my mom had the chance to go to school, she went on to become an ICU nurse and is now one of the best in the hospital she works in. My other mom is an airline pilot and just finished nursing school and is also now a registered nurse.

 

I grew up as a young child in Las Vegas, Nevada. The people there are not exactly warm and friendly to gay people, but a good portion are tolerant and welcoming. Needless to say, I was bullied in elementary school because my parents were gay. I was pushed around a bit, called names, had dirt smeared in my face.

But you know what?

I also had friends. I had AMAZING friends. And their parents were great and helped me like my own parents did. Was it my parents fault that I was bullied? Of course not! The people who allowed their own children to taunt another kid because their family is different are at fault. They are the ones to blame, THEY are the ones who are selfish. Not my moms.

 

After sixth grade, we moved to California. And holy gods, the people there were much different- warm, welcoming, loving, and accepting. Sure, there were a few gems of people who thought they could get away with some nasty words, but they were the ones that got the flack for it. They were the ones everyone else ganged up on because they were out of line. The community here is amazing, and I've never felt more at home and in love with an area than I do here in California. So no, it's not my mom's fault. It's the surrounding people who had the kind of mentality that make them feel it's okay to ostracize a little kid.

 

And let me tell you, any kid who loves their parents will never blame their moms or dads for being the way that they are.

A few years ago, my moms adopted a little girl with cerebral palsy and a heart defect. And now her growth and health development is far greater than our social workers ever even predicted. She's a happy, healthy kid, and with her fieriness... Well, good luck to anyone who tries to make fun of her, for health reasons or because she has gay moms.

[agirl3003]

those who use the bible as an excuse against it, keep this in mind. The bible was written a great deal after 'jesus' would have long since died. The people who are written about in both the torah and the bible did not actually write about THEIR experiences. All those came a great deal AFTER and were written down by people who were not directly involved.

 

Not to mention that it was originally shared by one person telling another. Ever play the game telephone? Do you really think that after so many people retold a story over and over that it WOULDN'T get changed over time? The wording would not be the same, even the events would not be the same.

 

Then take into account that the bible was originally written in latin, a dead language. And has been translated over and over, and nothing in it should be taken literally. Even religious scholors will often tell you that it is not meant to be followed word for word, because no one truly knows what the people writing it were actually trying to get across. There are so many interpretations for the same statement, how do you know you have the exact one?

 

And I feel that it's more that the bible has stories meant to just teach you, and ways that you can live a happy and healthy life, in the minds of the men who put those stories down.

 

So please dont use an old book as your 'excuse' to hate something. Rather use your minds and think about it. People being together will not affect you in any way, or your children. Rather learn how to be accepting, and judge someone based on who they are, not what they are. Teach your children not to bully and to accept others more. I know that is not the easiest thing to do, but less children would be committing suicide if there were less bullies out there.

 

Remember if you are a woman, being around a lesbian doesn't mean they are attracted to you, or lusting after you. Do you lust after every man you see? No! It's the same way. For both male and female homosexuals, they have certain things they are attracted to, and certain things they aren't. They have to learn to love you, just like anyone else. My bisexual friend has absolutely no attraction to me, we are simply good friends. Don't be afraid of that. And if by chance someone is attracted to you, just do what you would do if someone of the opposite sex you weren't interested in did that. And tell them that you aren't interested in dating them. It's that simple.

 

*phew* that was long X3 hehe

[Viktorya]

Remember if you are a woman, being around a lesbian doesn't mean they are attracted to you, or lusting after you. Do you lust after every man you see? No! It's the same way. For both male and female homosexuals, they have certain things they are attracted to, and certain things they aren't. They have to learn to love you, just like anyone else. My bisexual friend has absolutely no attraction to me, we are simply good friends. Don't be afraid of that. And if by chance someone is attracted to you, just do what you would do if someone of the opposite sex you weren't interested in did that. And tell them that you aren't interested in dating them. It's that simple.

This! When I came out as bisexual in 8th grade a lot of people I knew (it being an all girls school) started getting anxious around me and I had no idea why! I'm still the same person, and I'm not going to lust after every other girl there... especially if I hadn't been like that before I came out!

[PeppermintSwirl]

i dont see anything wrong with gay marriage i mean come on, they're people too right? and besides, they didn't make a choice to be gay, they were probably born that way.

[The Evil Doer]

Did you just suggest that Jesus didnt walk on water ? that Muhammad didn't have a flying horse and that Moses didnt open the sea up ? What's next there is no Santa ?

 

Bible was not originally written in Latin, matter of fact it was written in 3 different languages long before it was ever written in Latin... just saying, get your facts right before you go and claim that santa isn't real

Edited February 26, 2012 by The Evil Doer

[Tiki G]

The argument that you fear for the children who are going to get bullied because they have same sex parents is pretty much invalid. Children can be cruel, evil little things and will bully anyone given a reason. No matter if you are fat, short, ugly, weird, or whatever. Even if a child who has same sex parents didn't have same sex parents, if they had terrible acne, they would still be getting bullied.

[agirl3003]

Bible was not originally written in Latin, matter of fact it was written in 3 different languages long before it was ever written in Latin... just saying, get your facts right before you go and claim that santa isn't real

lol I was tired Thought I thought the christian bible was first in latin, not counting the torah of course that was in hebrew. *shrugs* either way the point is still there

 

 

[The Evil Doer]

Discuss this, Im off to watch the game

 

Texas judge

[diannethegeek]

Discuss this, Im off to watch the game

 

Texas judge

I couldn't spark a discussion on this story when I posted it two days ago. Hopefully you'll have more luck.

 

There's also the hair stylist for the governor of New Mexico who's refusing to grant her an appointment unless she reverses her position on gay marriage: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/22/styl...age-opposition/