Coronavirus Discussion

[Astreya]

@Classycal

But would they even have gotten the idea to try this if Mr.Trump wouldn't have praised chloroquine as cure?

[purpledragonclaw]

2 hours ago, ValidEmotions said:

 

I feel like this is being a little unfair/snarkier than deserved? I understand your frustration (my dad is immunocompromised + has COPD), but Doom: Eternal was also released the same day/early the day before and has an equally large fan base that went out for the game. Also, the article you linked points out that even when in line, customers/fans practiced distancing and hygiene awareness. These people made pre-orders months in advance, long before any pandemic was declared (and the US President+other Government Officials' response to call it such was sorely behind par--do you honestly expect 100% of the country to take this seriously when our own president won't?). Still, it was noted by fans/customers that GameStop/Nintendo should have issued out digital codes in place of the physical copies that people ordered originally.  Gamestop went so far as to release Doom a day early to help minimize the number of people. 

I'm an Animal Crossing fan myself. I pre-ordered New Horizons and I paid for it to be shipped to my house on the day of release. That requires contact with a delivery service driver who has/will have contact with who-knows-how-many others. No one can absolutely, 100%, reduce contact with other people. But people are doing the best they can while still living some modicum of their ordinary lives. 

 

Truthfully, I believe COVID-19 is proving how underprepared the world is for crises like this (or of any kind, really). To some extent, I think we are overreacting a little because we are unprepared. There was probably a better way to handle the pandemic without completely shutting everything down and disrupting every single human life on the planet. 

I mean, for one, think about everyone who is a victim of abuse, children and adults alike. As everything is on lockdown, they are trapped with their abusers who, in this time of lost control, are going to get extremely more violent in search of control. 

Think about those who don't have a stable source of food or shelter, children who rely on schools to get their only meal in the day. 

 

We don't have a way to adequately support them because everything is being locked up.

 

There was no snark in my comment, I am very serious. As Raikielia said, a game is not more important than health. EB Games was specifically called out by Canadian politicians for even allowing customers to line up in the first place. That was a situation that they should never have allowed to happen. I agree that Gamestop or Nintendo could have, and should have, issued digital codes instead, and that would have solved this problem. Customers had already paid for the game, so it's not like they were getting a free copy. The larger problem here is that Gamestop has been lying to everyone about their Covid-19 preparedness, steps they were taking to protect their employees and customers, and calling themselves "essential retail" to prevent them from being closed. That's context I should have included in my original post, but didn't feel the need to, and that's my fault, I should have provided it. Gamestop's been operating on razor-thin margins for years and would most likely not survive having to close for any length of time, so they fought tooth and nail to remain open, politicians, doctors, and citizens be darned. They didn't care about their customers or their employees, all they cared about was making as much money as possible and taking advantage of other stores being closed to do it. That is shameful. And you can see in the photo accompanying that article that many of those customers are not practicing social distancing. Gamestop closed down after they made their sales on Doom and Animal Crossing, not before. 

 

I am an Animal Crossing fan as well. I'm also an even larger fan of Final Fantasy VII and pre-ordered the physical copy over six months ago, long before there was a pandemic. The physical copy is probably going to be delayed now, Square-Enix mentioned that last week, and I will survive. I certainly would not stand in a line, with a group of people, six feet apart or not, to get this game. 

 

The world was not prepared for this, at all, I agree. We are truly seeing the flaws exposed in governments across the world.

 

I think of abuse victims, children who relied on schools to provide them their meals, families living paycheck-to-paycheck, workers in the gig economy, people saddled with a tremendous amount of student loan debt, the homeless, and those in jails for minor infractions or who couldn't afford bail, asylum seekers at the border, and others who are suffering because the world has come to a screeching halt from this. I have sympathy for all of the suffering we're seeing, and I hope we learn lessons from this so vulnerable populations are accounted and provided for as well, and they're not left behind again. No one should be left behind.

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by purpledragonclaw

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, purpledragonclaw said:

 

There was no snark in my comment, I am very serious. As Raikielia said, a game is not more important than health. EB Games was specifically called out by Canadian politicians for even allowing customers to line up in the first place. That was a situation that they should never have allowed to happen. I agree that Gamestop or Nintendo could have, and should have, issued digital codes instead, and that would have solved this problem. Customers had already paid for the game, so it's not like they were getting a free copy. The larger problem here is that Gamestop has been lying to everyone about their Covid-19 preparedness, steps they were taking to protect their employees and customers, and calling themselves "essential retail" to prevent them from being closed. That's context I should have included in my original post, but didn't feel the need to, and that's my fault, I should have provided it. Gamestop's been operating on razor-thin margins for years and would most likely not survive having to close for any length of time, so they fought tooth and nail to remain open, politicians, doctors, and citizens be darned. They didn't care about their customers or their employees, all they cared about was making as much money as possible and taking advantage of other stores being closed to do it. That is shameful. And you can see in the photo accompanying that article that many of those customers are not practicing social distancing. Gamestop closed down after they made their sales on Doom and Animal Crossing, not before. 

 

This, 100%. In the UK Sports Direct (who sell upper market, shall we say, trainers and stuff,) are insisting that they be allowed to stay open as they are necessary so that the public can exercise. As far as I know, the public has shoes and can walk. And now is not the time they need to buy new weights or whatever. Their workers need to be able to stay home.

 

Governments should have legislated those stores closed, with a MONSTROUS fine, and legislated for the game companies to delay the games, given that people are stupid enough to risk their lives to get them.

 

3 hours ago, purpledragonclaw said:

 

I am an Animal Crossing fan as well. I'm also an even larger fan of Final Fantasy VII and pre-ordered the physical copy over six months ago, long before there was a pandemic. The physical copy is probably going to be delayed now, Square-Enix mentioned that last week, and I will survive. I certainly would not stand in a line, with a group of people, six feet apart or not, to get this game. 

 

Good - I would prefer you to live ! I could use some fresh veg - but if there's a queue I shall do without.

 

3 hours ago, purpledragonclaw said:

I think of abuse victims, children who relied on schools to provide them their meals, families living paycheck-to-paycheck, workers in the gig economy, people saddled with a tremendous amount of student loan debt, the homeless, and those in jails for minor infractions or who couldn't afford bail, asylum seekers at the border, and others who are suffering because the world has come to a screeching halt from this. I have sympathy for all of the suffering we're seeing, and I hope we learn lessons from this so vulnerable populations are accounted and provided for as well, and they're not left behind again. No one should be left behind.

 

Again - in the UK, bless them, the kitchen staff in schools are putting together packed lunches for the kids entitled to free lunches - because, as they say, in many cases the free lunches are the only meal those kids get in a day, and the teachers are delivering them to their homes.

 

The people trapped in their homes with abusers is a terrifying thing.

[Tiira]

Our national health and welfare organisation confessed they had somehow "missed" 200 000 Finnish people returning from epidemic centres abroad when making their calculations. So the advice they had been giving to the government as well as the citizens wasn't very adequate and those returning travellers weren't quarantined –  or even informed at the airport to stay home and avoid contact with other people.

Also, the Finns are still hoarding alcohol, especially spirits and liqueurs... I just hate our local heavy drinking culture.

[olympe]

19 minutes ago, Varislapsi said:

Also, the Finns are still hoarding alcohol, especially spirits and liqueurs... I just hate our local heavy drinking culture.

Well, it may not be too common over here, but I certainly saw a number of unusual gaps in the alcohol section of a local store. I didn't check out what was missing, though.

 

13 hours ago, trystan said:

they can explain it until they're blue in the face, and he may even say he understands... but he's got a "feeling" that we should be all right by Easter. i don't know if i should laugh at that, or bang my head against the wall....

And since he's the best president of all times, not to mention god-approves and a genius who really gets science to boot, his "feeling" must be a divine gift to him and only him. *sigh* As bad as this whole situation is, I hope this will finally be the wake-up call for many people in various nations (not just the US) that their governments aren't what and who they should ge.

 

10 hours ago, Classycal said:

I saw on the NBC news that the man and his wife actually misunderstood the missive that chloroquine, used to treat malaria, and may be the reason why Africa has had fewer cases, could help treat COVID-19.  Instead they took chloroquine phosphate which is for treatment of fish parasites.  If someone will kindly tell me how to post a link from a tablet, I will link it.  Every time I try to copy the link, it just disappears.

Or... Africa could have fewer *confirmed* cases because most countries are poor (compared to us), have a very few doctors and even fewer clinics/hospitals (and people would have to travel far to get there), people hardly can afford to go there because local labor laws are **** (no money for no work done, but having to pay for the doctor/clinic/hospital/whatever), and there're probably not enough tests to test everyone. I know that not all African countries are the same, but probably close to it for many places. No money => no doctor visit => not test => no positive result.

 

12 hours ago, ValidEmotions said:

I feel like this is being a little unfair/snarkier than deserved? I understand your frustration (my dad is immunocompromised + has COPD), but Doom: Eternal was also released the same day/early the day before and has an equally large fan base that went out for the game.

So? The point is that there are people who value early access to an effing game higher than the potential risk to their own life, or the lives to the people around them. If that isn't the peak of crazy, careless and narcisstic, then I probably don't know the meaning of either of these words.

 

12 hours ago, ValidEmotions said:

Truthfully, I believe COVID-19 is proving how underprepared the world is for crises like this (or of any kind, really). To some extent, I think we are overreacting a little because we are unprepared. There was probably a better way to handle the pandemic without completely shutting everything down and disrupting every single human life on the planet. 

I cannot agree with you on more than that we are underprepared. However, I don't think we're overreacting. Right now, the numbers show that COVID-19 has a death rate of 15%, with a strong upward tendency. If the health system of a country manages to persevere, death rate can be as low as 5% (as shown by China). But it can also be much, much higher. Italy has more people who died of COVID-19 than people who got cured. And the disease in question is highly contagious, with no known cure or vaccine. The only way to avoid a collapse of our hospitals and doctors' offices and the like is to "flatten the curve" - which can only be achieved through isolation, unfortunately. 

[Tiira]

2 hours ago, olympe said:

Well, it may not be too common over here, but I certainly saw a number of unusual gaps in the alcohol section of a local store. I didn't check out what was missing, though.

 

We have really strict alcohol laws here and only very mild alcoholic drinks can be sold in the supermarkets. I haven't visited any bottle shops (it's just one chain but they have plenty of stores) but I've read on the news many times how well they're doing...

[Ruby Eyes]

... probably all used for disinfection. Internally. Yup.

 

[olympe]

13 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

... probably all used for disinfection. Internally. Yup.

 

My mother proposed to do that, too - although she was at least half joking. However, her father was a known alcoholic and almost never got a cold, much less something more serious... I'd still rather keep my liver as healthy as possible, thank you very much. Plus, I need to be able to drive.  

[Ruby Eyes]

@olympe

My mother's father was an alcoholic. And a child-abuser.

My stepfather was an alcoholic (probably still is) and a choleric. He also tried to murder my mother.

 

No matter how much one claims that alcohol "helps" - I'll keep my distance from them NOT ONLY during pandemic times.

[olympe]

I'm not completely against the consumption of alcohol - but I haven't managed to get blackout drunk yet. I think I'm too old to start with it now.

I'm definitely not a fan of alcoholism or alcoholics.

 

And, just for reference, I haven't had any this year yet. I'll probably have some in small  measures once the pandemic is over, but, well, small measures. I need to be careful because I noticed that, whenever I feel like my body is fighting a cold, drinking any amount of alcohol makes it break out. Each and every time. I'm not taking any chances with a virus like Corona.

[Astreya]

@olympe

I prefer to go for very hot chilli dishes for internal disinfection. I think I can guarantee that no bug will survive my Chicken Vindaloo (some people probably won't survive it either, though).

[olympe]

@Astreya I wish I could eat it - but it's my stomach, of all things, that can't take hot chili stuff.  If I'm very unlucky, my stomach is upset for a whole day or two after eating hot chili that's just too hot for me.

Edited March 25, 2020 by olympe
missing verb

[Classycal]

I like hot stuff, but it definitely doesn't like me, so I avoid it.  

 

4 hours ago, olympe said:

r... Africa could have fewer *confirmed* cases because most countries are poor (compared to us), have a very few doctors and even fewer clinics/hospitals (and people would have to travel far to get there), people hardly can afford to go there because local labor laws are (no money for no work done, but having to pay for the doctor/clinic/hospital/whatever), and there're probably not enough tests to test everyone. I know that not all African countries are the same, but probably close to it for many places. No money => no doctor visit => not test => no positive result.

 

You are probably right.

 

4 hours ago, olympe said:

I cannot agree with you on more than that we are underprepared. However, I don't think we're overreacting. Right now, the numbers show that COVID-19 has a death rate of 15%, with a strong upward tendency. If the health system of a country manages to persevere, death rate can be as low as 5% (as shown by China). But it can also be much, much higher. Italy has more people who died of COVID-19 than people who got cured. And the disease in question is highly contagious, with no known cure or vaccine. The only way to avoid a collapse of our hospitals and doctors' offices and the like is to "flatten the curve" - which can only be achieved through isolation, unfortunately. 

 

No, we aren't overreacting.  But there are some people who still aren't taking things seriously, and that's too bad.  I think China is being too optimistic about opening the country to tourism.  I think they will have another outbreak, albeit probably not as bad.  And I surely would like to think other countries aren't having to deal with Trump-like behavior, but from what I'm reading here, it seems that perhaps they are.  

[Astreya]

@olympe

Aww, that's a pity. But very hot food is indeed an acquired taste. I have some sauces with a ridiculous Scoville score - I bet they would work nicely as disinfectants, too ^^

[olympe]

I once cut very, very hot chilies. (I had no idea they were some special kind, much less an especially hot kind.) I wasn't wearing gloves or anything. My finger hurt for a day and didn't stop tingling until day 7 after the chilis. Lesson learned.

[Astreya]

I bet! Some people look at me a bit strangely when I handle some of my chillis with a care that others would use to handle highly dangerous pathogens. Gloves and glasses for protection are a "must". ^^

[Tiira]

I actually bought some fresh chillies a few days back as well. I love Italian food and they go so well with garlic, parsley, olive oil, things like that. I bet that means lots of flu fighting vitamins! I have a sourdough pizza dough in the fridge waiting for Friday. It just has to mature a bit still. (All my neighbours, instead, seem to prefer those internal disinfectants... based on the noise and stink in the stairway lately.)

 

We had a government's press conference today (like almost every day at the moment) and they're going to isolate my area indeed. So now the stupid Finns have been hurrying to leave the city for their summerhouses before it's too late. Obviously they shouldn't do that as those are small municipalities with relatively big senior populations and no resources to treat the escaping citizens of the metropolitan area.

[Fuzzbucket]

4 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

... probably all used for disinfection. Internally. Yup.

 

 

Actually - I do have friends who have been making their own hand sanitiser using vodka as it was the only alcohol they could get hold of. Such a waste....

 

2 hours ago, Classycal said:

No, we aren't overreacting.  But there are some people who still aren't taking things seriously, and that's too bad.  I think China is being too optimistic about opening the country to tourism.  I think they will have another outbreak, albeit probably not as bad.  And I surely would like to think other countries aren't having to deal with Trump-like behavior, but from what I'm reading here, it seems that perhaps they are.  

 

Yes - some people - I am ashamed to say particularly in England - are behaving appallingly.

 

8 minutes ago, Varislapsi said:

We had a government's press conference today (like almost every day at the moment) and they're going to isolate my area indeed. So now the stupid Finns have been hurrying to leave the city for their summerhouses before it's too late. Obviously they shouldn't do that as those are small municipalities with relatively big senior populations and no resources to treat the escaping citizens of the metropolitan area.

 

We've had that up here too - people fled to the Lake District for days out last weekend - in HUGE crowds - which I bet is the kind of reason that part of the country has a rapidly increasing infection rate.... And they were trying to book into hotels to get away from London. It is an area with a lot of holiday homes - and people are rushing to them.

 

What part of STUPID and SELFISH do they not understand ?

[Classycal]

31 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

We've had that up here too - people fled to the Lake District for days out last weekend - in HUGE crowds - which I bet is the kind of reason that part of the country has a rapidly increasing infection rate.... And they were trying to book into hotels to get away from London. It is an area with a lot of holiday homes - and people are rushing to them.

 

What part of STUPID and SELFISH do they not understand ?

 

Besides being stupid, they likely aren't realizing that rural hospitals are probably not as likely to be able to care for large numbers of COVID-19, which is probably going to have an increase in the rate of cases because all these people are influxing in to the rural areas.  That's because those big city folks are bringing the virus with them.  

 

I suppose we could do what some people did during the black plague.  They went to the mountains and lived totally "off the grid" until the plague was over.  

[olympe]

2 hours ago, Classycal said:

I suppose we could do what some people did during the black plague.  They went to the mountains and lived totally "off the grid" until the plague was over.  

If they sirvived, that is. I'm sure just as many, if not more, died off the grid.

[Classycal]

2 hours ago, olympe said:

If they sirvived, that is. I'm sure just as many, if not more, died off the grid.

 

Actually, many of these people lived.  They were not exposed to Black Death which decimated Eurasia from 1347 to 1351.  (God forbid the Corona pandemic will last as long.)  75 to 200 million people died.  The number is not more accurate because, well, it was the middle ages and they did not have our electronic reporting.  

[Starscream]

Woot! we managed to score a pack of TP. holding it so we hace some in our house when we move. I was getting old tea towels ready too.

 

If you want to go and read about the plague, pick up the plague and the fire by john lessor. (1665 plague)

Edited March 26, 2020 by Starscream

[Astreya]

What I'm wondering is whether there are some people who are immune against Covid-19 after all. I know it is a fresh virus, but it was found that a certain percentage of Europeans are immune against HIV, too as the various plages in the past caused people to reproduce better who had a certain mutation in the DNA that gave them a somewhat more resilient immune system.-

[Eggy0]

So just a few days ago, our country has issued a ban on movement due to the pandemic, where people aren't allowed to leave their homes without a permit. Now for me, this wouldn't have been a big deal at all since I'm home all day anyway... Except for the fact that earthquakes have happened just before the ban was issued, prompting my parents to decide to flee to another place out in the country, and tremors are still happening which makes my parents want to stay here until they stop completely (even when they're only strong enough to be felt but not threatening). Where I am at, I have no access to my stuff and the mobile data I have is very limited and I have to use it sparingly, and I can't even go out for a walk both due to the ban and the cold weather. I understand we're safer here and some people had it much worse (I even heard someone I knew lost their home to the earthquakes and a relative is in isolation where the only contact he's allowed is via phone), but I've barely been keeping my boredom at bay with my phone and the TV for the past few days and I worry about the state of our home. I just absolutely hate how out of all the times this could have happened, it happened right in the middle of the pandemic with everyone already struggling enough as is .-.

[Fuzzbucket]

There have been earthquakes SINCE the knockdowns started in some places. Ghastly.

 

11 hours ago, Classycal said:

 

Besides being stupid, they likely aren't realizing that rural hospitals are probably not as likely to be able to care for large numbers of COVID-19, which is probably going to have an increase in the rate of cases because all these people are influxing in to the rural areas.  That's because those big city folks are bringing the virus with them.  

 

I suppose we could do what some people did during the black plague.  They went to the mountains and lived totally "off the grid" until the plague was over.  

 

I am lucky - I LIVE very remotely - not off grid, but on a tiny rods way up a hill -  the nearest house is 250 metres away, and we are all distancing religiously up here - waving across whole fields.. Even so, I'm not holding my breath.

 

3 hours ago, Astreya said:

What I'm wondering is whether there are some people who are immune against Covid-19 after all. I know it is a fresh virus, but it was found that a certain percentage of Europeans are immune against HIV, too as the various plages in the past caused people to reproduce better who had a certain mutation in the DNA that gave them a somewhat more resilient immune system.-

 

I believe they have already established that a few people are immune but they have no idea why. I have no clue where I read this, so don't treat it as gospel - but I THINK whatever "new" disease comes out, some people - not always the same people - always turn out to be immune.