Change how refusals work

[Palior]

I love this idea, either option feels like a great way to make the game more fun and still keep a bit of challenge to it! Hoping this gets noticed a bit more!

[DragonNighthowler]

All for anything that will give us a chance to try again. That is the most annoying and frustrating thing DC has, the friggin refusals. I remember trying to breed a terrae mate for over three month (picky mates), and when I managed it, she refused her intended mate. I wanted to cry!

Bred another mate... gendered wrong.

Bred another... refused again!

By that point I wanted to rework the whole branch from the very first dragons five gens back. Eventually I managed to breed a mate, but that was one of the most frustrating moments in the game.

 

Also, every time I'm breeding rares to their mates, I shudder.

[nlechoppa]

This would be such a godsend i'm not even kidding.

Because of picky dragons refusals are so maddening when you have those perfect dragons and they refuse.

[HeatherMarie]

Perhaps it could be a BSA that's active only when Valentines eggs can be bred / are dropping? Could either be a "reverse all refusals" BSA or just remove one.

This, I could get being. The remove one. It makes sense, it's the user's choice (!!)... It's fine.

 

For the other OP idea, I think a non-permanent "refusal" would have to be a LOT longer then just two weeks. ALL dragons have a week cooldown after breeding, so two weeks really isn't that big a deal at all. Realistically, a dragon (or human. or any animal) is most likely not going to completely change their mind about having sex with a certain individual in just the span of two weeks. I could see circumstances and attitudes realistically changing in a couple of *months*, but not two weeks.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

This, I could get being. The remove one. It makes sense, it's the user's choice (!!)... It's fine.

 

For the other OP idea, I think a non-permanent "refusal" would have to be a LOT longer then just two weeks. ALL dragons have a week cooldown after breeding, so two weeks really isn't that big a deal at all. Realistically, a dragon (or human. or any animal) is most likely not going to completely change their mind about having sex with a certain individual in just the span of two weeks. I could see circumstances and attitudes realistically changing in a couple of *months*, but not two weeks.

Well, you have to remember a week on DC is not a week. Supposedly it takes our dragons many years to mature, yet they do so in a few days... And animals as large as dragons couldn't naturally be reproducing at a one a week rate either. So two weeks (or a month) is a lot longer than we think

 

I guess my concern with Valentine's Day over the other thing is how huge the time difference can be. You might be able to reset a refusal in a week, or you might have to wait a year. That's a pretty huge swing. I think something more balanced would be better...

 

Hm. What if it was a valentine dragon BSA, but had a three month cooldown instead of being Valentines only?

[Princess_Pinkie]

Well, you have to remember a week on DC is not a week. Supposedly it takes our dragons many years to mature, yet they do so in a few days... And animals as large as dragons couldn't naturally be reproducing at a one a week rate either. So two weeks (or a month) is a lot longer than we think

 

I guess my concern with Valentine's Day over the other thing is how huge the time difference can be. You might be able to reset a refusal in a week, or you might have to wait a year. That's a pretty huge swing. I think something more balanced would be better...

 

Hm. What if it was a valentine dragon BSA, but had a three month cooldown instead of being Valentines only?

i like the idea of it being a valentines' BSA. i think that'd work well.

 

i'm very in favor of it, especially if for all dragons and not just holidays. i get so many refusals for holiday mates, too. i had to try three different nebulas for one wrapping wing x_x

[Fuzzbucket]

I think it has to have a very long cooldown. 6 months minimum. Kind of like how long it takes(for ORDINARY people !) to get a divorce. Otherwise - why have refusals - and they ARE actually an interesting if frustrating part of the game.

 

It's not longer a wait if we stick to the Valentine season than those of us making checkers with Christmas dragons, after all - not a matter of refusals but you can only breed the holiday partners once a YEAR.

[Allspice]

I would love to do away with refusals completely, they add nothing but pointless aggravation IMHO. I just had a pair that have bred successfully in the past refuse each other. I didn't even know that could happen.

 

I know people won't want to do away with refusals completely for...reasons I guess. I just really hate it and would like to have a way to reset them. I really like the idea of giving all the Valentines dragons a BSA that lets us do that, with a cooldown of a month or two.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I would love to do away with refusals completely, they add nothing but pointless aggravation IMHO. I just had a pair that have bred successfully in the past refuse each other. I didn't even know that could happen.

 

I know people won't want to do away with refusals completely for...reasons I guess. I just really hate it and would like to have a way to reset them. I really like the idea of giving all the Valentines dragons a BSA that lets us do that, with a cooldown of a month or two.

It's impossible for dragons to refuse each other during holiday seasons (at least when a holiday dragon is involved), so for better or worse pairs that can breed together then might not breed together out of season.

 

I'd love to see refusals go away completely as well, honestly, but I figured a more conservative suggestion had a better chance of being implemented.

[cyradis4]

Honestly, I'd rather the Fleshcrowns have the BSA if that route is taken. They are available all year round, for one thing, so anyone can get a new one when they need it.

 

As for the re-work.... meh. As someone who has had about 4 dragons refuse two mates in a row (one of them a Gold x holiday!) refusals can be very frustrating. And anything that gives a 2nd chance is nice.

 

Regarding the question of refusals in the game... its an interesting twist on the game mechanics, and I don't want to do away with it completely. I think having Harmonize, with a really long cooldown, will keep the intent of the refusal while still letting people get around those refusals of super hard to replace dragons.

 

I don't know about you guys, but its only the impossible / hard to replace refusals that make me wanna flip tables, and so long as enough perseverance will let me get those two dragons to breed (eventually) than I think refusals add an interesting dynamic.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[diaveborn]

For those who think refusals add to the game - do you mean that having an option to undo refusals, even if you didn't use the option, would take away from the game for you?

 

(Just curious, as breeding isn't a big thing for me so I don't have much if any experience with refusals - I know what my intellectual response is to suggestions for refusals not being permanent, but I haven't had the opportunity to have a personal emotional one.)

[cyradis4]

For those who think refusals add to the game - do you mean that having an option to undo refusals, even if you didn't use the option, would take away from the game for you?

 

(Just curious, as breeding isn't a big thing for me so I don't have much if any experience with refusals - I know what my intellectual response is to suggestions for refusals not being permanent, but I haven't had the opportunity to have a personal emotional one.)

Given the choice of:

 

1. Refusals like they are now

2. No refusals

3. Refusals, with the ability to reverse them with enough time / dedication

 

I'd pick 3.

 

If 3 weren't an option, I'd pick 2. Basically, I hate refusals as they are now, but if we're going to re-work them, might as well have the best of both worlds.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[HeatherMarie]

I definitely think refusals add *something* to the game (although what, exactly, is a huge matter of opinion) and personally I don't care when my dragons refuse. But because I'm not the only one playing this game, and I see how it affects many other users, I'm all for some feature/BSA that allows a second-chance for refusal-pairs. I just don't think that second-chance should be overly simple or quick, since "refuse to even go near each other" is a fairly extreme reaction and not something I think dragons would completely reverse on a dime.

[Allspice]

It's impossible for dragons to refuse each other during holiday seasons (at least when a holiday dragon is involved), so for better or worse pairs that can breed together then might not breed together out of season.

 

I'd love to see refusals go away completely as well, honestly, but I figured a more conservative suggestion had a better chance of being implemented.

Oh, I see. Well darn.

So does that mean, outside of holidays, once a pair has been bred successfully they won't ever refuse? I certainly hope that's the case.

 

Agreed, I was just very annoyed at the time I posted. I had four or five refusals happen one after another while I was trying out pairings today. Having just the option to reverse them, even if it takes some time, would be a huge improvement.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Allspice

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Honestly, I'd rather the Fleshcrowns have the BSA if that route is taken. They are available all year round, for one thing, so anyone can get a new one when they need it.

 

[...]

 

I don't know about you guys, but its only the impossible / hard to replace refusals that make me wanna flip tables, and so long as enough perseverance will let me get those two dragons to breed (eventually) than I think refusals add an interesting dynamic.

 

Cheers!

C4.

The main reason I suggested this over Harmonize (perhaps the only reason, really) is that the creator of the Fleshcrownes recently stepped in to the harmonize thread and said she'd like it to be a one shot thing with about as good a shot of working as influence. So while it'd work the vast majority of the time, there would still be refusals you could never repair. (Assuming it's implemented that way, but since it was the creator, I assume her opinion has a lot of weight to it / it's likely)

 

While any step towards less permanent refusals is a good one, I'd really rather see something implemented where, as you said, perseverance will always triumph in the end--ergo me suggesting this instead of just holding up harmonize.

 

 

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

For those who think refusals add to the game - do you mean that having an option to undo refusals, even if you didn't use the option, would take away from the game for you?

 

(Just curious, as breeding isn't a big thing for me so I don't have much if any experience with refusals - I know what my intellectual response is to suggestions for refusals not being permanent, but I haven't had the opportunity to have a personal emotional one.)

No - but making it really easy to undo would spoil it rather. Refusal shouldn't end up as a slightly more annoying version of the dragons show no interest.

 

Oh, I see. Well darn. sad.gif

So does that mean, outside of holidays, once a pair has been bred successfully they won't ever refuse? I certainly hope that's the case.

It is indeed the case.

 

@ ADP - my reservation with perseverance always winning out in the end ties in with those awful people who go on and on pursuing the person they KNOW will love them REALLY, they just need to be SHOWN that they do.

 

Some pairings just don't work and never will. Don't make your dragon a stalker

Edited April 7, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[cyradis4]

The main reason I suggested this over Harmonize (perhaps the only reason, really) is that the creator of the Fleshcrownes recently stepped in to the harmonize thread and said she'd like it to be a one shot thing with about as good a shot of working as influence. So while it'd work the vast majority of the time, there would still be refusals you could never repair. (Assuming it's implemented that way, but since it was the creator, I assume her opinion has a lot of weight to it / it's likely)

 

While any step towards less permanent refusals is a good one, I'd really rather see something implemented where, as you said, perseverance will always triumph in the end--ergo me suggesting this instead of just holding up harmonize.

I've been wondering just how much say the Artists have in the creation of BSAs. I mean, clearly they'd have a lot of influence in "is it right for the breed", but the whole one-shot-deal vs perseverance strikes me as more game mechanics.

 

I definitely agree with you on the "one-shot-deal" being far less than ideal. I speak as someone who has had two rares and an uncommon each refuse at least 2 mates (I'm working on a 3rd for two of them, the Magma finally accepted the 3rd mate I bred her, which was good for her seeing as how a 3rd refusal would have gotten her zombified next Halloween).

 

If it really is going to be just a one-shot for Harmonize, then I'd prefer for Valentine's to get the BSA, with a long cooldown and a decent chance of failure. That way, its not too easy to reverse refusals.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@ ADP - my reservation with perseverance always winning out in the end ties in with those awful people who go on and on pursuing the person they KNOW will love them REALLY, they just need to be SHOWN that they do.

 

Some pairings just don't work and never will. Don't make your dragon a stalker

While I agree that this makes sense from a logical perspective (I know there are some people no amount of time will ever make me like), I also believe DC also doesn't follow logic in many places where game play is more important. As I said before, logically our dragons should take more offense to us taking their children away from them and tossing them out to die, we shouldn't be able to waltz up to stone dragons and stab them to death before they realize what's going on, and we probably wouldn't be able to all have armies of dragons without some manner of terrible famine or war ending the world. Yet we can do all of the above, because it's more fun from a game play perspective. I believe the same should be true of refusals--might not be the most logical thing, sure, but will make a big difference in enjoyment to those who work on very elaborate or rare lineages that are hard if not impossible to replace.

 

[diaveborn]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

 

I've been wondering just how much say the Artists have in the creation of BSAs. I mean, clearly they'd have a lot of influence in "is it right for the breed", but the whole one-shot-deal vs perseverance strikes me as more game mechanics.

 

*nod* The artist seemed to me to be saying that undoing refusals fit the breed, while having a not-breed-concept-based reason for it being a one time chance. I would have liked to have seen either something based on their concept for Fleshcrownes that said that it should be a one time chance, or instead something along the lines of it didn't matter to them as maker of Fleshcrownes *how* it got implemented.

Edited April 7, 2014 by diaveborn

[LibbyLishly]

yes yeS YeS YES YES YES YES

 

I actually prefer either the Valentine's season or the longer wait to any BSA idea, though I support literally any idea that will fix the screwed-up refusal system. Isn't the refusal a leftover from the days when lineages weren't viewable, and so breeding a dragon to one certain mate wasn't as big of a deal? Now it's a huge hassle, to some of us (ME) the single most frustrating element of the entire game. If there was a way or a time that a refusal could be reversed (and not just be a one-shot 'Didn't work? Well, tough, you're stuck again'), then I would find a refusal just a benign challenge in my gameplay.

 

I really have no preference as to whether it would be Valentine's season (not just the day of unless it was auto) or a wait-a-couple-months-and-try-again. I just want to build lineages and not have dragons that I killed myself to get be permanently unable to breed. I'd be perfectly happy to see refusals eradicated, but if they were reversible I would be ambivalent to them - mildly annoyed, perhaps, but I wouldn't feel the need to chuck my computer across the room.

 

If the logic filter needs to be checked, I'd point out that real-life breeders have been known to use artificial insemination if chosen mates can't or won't or shouldn't breed naturally. If permanent reversal HAS to be a thing, why can't we have an option like that? (I'm speaking facetiously, for the record. There are children on this site, after all. )

[OtomeKristinOtaku]

Love this idea! Both could work, and the reset on Valentine's day idea sounds really right to me! For the extra-long cool down, I think making it 1 month would be enough(vamp bites cool-down last that long as well)

[Dimar]

I dislike refusals as much as the next person and they've really made me upset before, especially on dragons that I was excited about. Lineages are vital for me and refusals are a hassle. However, I stubbornly want them to stay permanent.

 

That being said, if changes were to happen anyway like this Suggestion is addressing then I'd definitely have to prefer the Valentine's Day reset. I know "logic" is very iffy in DC, but Vday feels sensible to me and also is a yearly thing. So refusals would still be a serious challenge, but not something that's irreversible for people who really can't replace a mate.

 

For the other possibility, I dislike the idea of a "refusal cooldown" unless it's several months long (but then it might as well be yearly with a holiday that fits it). Kinda like it's trying to get around the refusal problem too easily? I'm not sure exactly why I feel this way about the option.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Maybe if it was a really long (like three month) wait before they could be bred again? Then maybe the little "refused" marker on the breeding page could be "available again in..."

 

My main reason for wanting the second option over Valentine's Day is it seems more balanced. With the once a year thing, you might have to wait the greater part of the year if they refuse right after the holiday, or you might have to wait only a week or so if they refused right before it. Having a set wait time reduces that imbalance. ^^

 

Three months also seems like just the right amount of time where if you can replace it, you will, but if the chances of being able to replace it are very small you don't have to drive yourself nuts trying to do so.

Edited May 4, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy