Animal Abuse

[GavinB]

Does anyone live in Australia?

 

Apparently three evil people caught three mice in a pot, and boiled them alive. They posted it on their Facebook.

 

Report them to the RSPCA if you can!

[SarWildDog]

Yeah, cats are very good with keeping away mice and rats, but this is largely because they are one of the few animals that kill for fun. And like previously mentioned, the kill isn't always instantaneous. I had a cat that would torture slowly torture and batter anything she got her paws on. Despite how a lot of people feel about them, constricting snakes are much more humane hunters.

Edited September 14, 2013 by SarWildDog

[TikindiDragon]

Yeah, cats are very good with keeping away mice and rats, but this is largely because they are one of the few animals that kill for fun. And like previously mentioned, the kill isn't always instantaneous. I had a cat that would torture slowly torture and batter anything she got her paws on. Despite how a lot of people feel about them, constricting snakes are much more human hunters.

Hmmm, there is a difference made by *why* a cat is hunting. A cat hunting to eat will kill quickly. A cat that's hunting to have fun won't. They pretty much only 'play' when they're not hungry. (Incidental note - my cat hunts to eat, because he sometimes prefers to eat live than to eat the food we provide. He rarely plays with his catch that I've seen).

 

Cats absolutely *do* deter mice. Although they can also occasionally bring live mice in and lose them

 

I, also, am rather glad glue traps are illegal in my country too. I totally get the need for pest control (goodness knows I grew up on a farm), but I do think the death should be as quick as possible.

[Cecona]

Who in their right mind would think boiling three mice alive was a fun or good idea? I can't stand animal cruelty, but some of the people trying to help are cruel themselves. The ASPCA has no problem putting animals to sleep. It might not be because no one will adopt it, but if it's something like the breed not being allowed in that city they will put the animal to sleep even if there are no aggressive tendencies, and even if it's completely healthy and happy. This this the case with pit bulls in several cities, and even if there are people willing to take in the dogs the ASPCA will refuse to let them have the dog and put it to sleep anyway.

 

Just.... you know animal cruelty is more than just mice and glue traps.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Cecona

[GavinB]

Just.... you know animal cruelty is more than just mice and glue traps.

I know. But it seems that small animals are the victims most, because either there are no laws to protect them or people just see them as "vermin".

[Infinis]

I know. But it seems that small animals are the victims most, because either there are no laws to protect them or people just see them as "vermin".

Before you, or anyone, vilifies people like me for killing the rats and mice in the house, look at the reasons why. Mice and rats are dangerous vermin where I live. I live in a state where plague still exists and where the vermin (esp. deermice) can carry Hantavirus, which can cause a condition called Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome.

 

I think mice and rats are cute - the ones bred for being pets, that is. Those are fine and I would never kill a pet one. But wild rats and mice carry a threat we really can't live with. (And I don't use glue traps, for the record.)

 

I can't stand animal cruelty, but some of the people trying to help are cruel themselves. The ASPCA has no problem putting animals to sleep. It might not be because no one will adopt it, but if it's something like the breed not being allowed in that city they will put the animal to sleep even if there are no aggressive tendencies, and even if it's completely healthy and happy. This this the case with pit bulls in several cities, and even if there are people willing to take in the dogs the ASPCA will refuse to let them have the dog and put it to sleep anyway.

 

Many shelters put animals to sleep for a variety of reasons: illness, space reasons (shelters can get very expensive to run, and they don't have infinite space or funding), aggression, not being adopted...there are probably others. I don't view this as cruelty. People just don't adopt enough. :c

 

And unfortunately, until more people see the value in sterilizing their pets if they're not being specifically used for breeding, the shelter population will continue to go up and animals will continue to needlessly be killed. :c

 

Also, BSL is stupid. if people would get away from their entrenched stereotypes about certain dog breeds perhaps we could get away from BSL. It would probably also help if people didn't just randomly touch strange dogs and if dogfighting wasn't a thing.

 

ETA:

To add to the thing about dogs. It bothers me greatly when a dog is put down for attacking someone on its perceived territory when so much of the time it's the OWNER'S fault for not keeping the dog penned or tied up. I consider /that/ a form of cruelty because we shouldn't be punishing the animal for the stupidity of its owner.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Infinis

[Pokemonfan13]

The problem is, some breeds do have aggressive tendencies built right into them. They were bred as guard dogs or attack dogs, not pets. Doesn't mean they're guaranteed to hurt someone, but the risk is higher, especially when they're not well trained.

 

What I find crazy is that the smaller breeds that have the same tendencies, sometimes worse, are ignored. Dachshunds, for example, can be very very nasty, and have a definite tendency towards aggressiveness.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachshund#Temperament

Edited September 14, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[dragongrrl]

I really hate the inhumane glue traps and poisons. Foul, nasty things! In the past, I have used the snap traps though, because they are very fast, and live traps wherever possible. I don't currently have an indoor problem, but there are barn cats and an amazing little dog here who help keep the outside rodent population under control.

 

Rats and mice can make very good pets if they are from healthy, domesticated lines, but wild rats and mice create a LOT of damage if they are trying to get into human or livestock foods. I do not tolerate them if they try to invade my home, and apart from hay, all my animal feeds are in rat proof containers. Anything spilled is quickly cleaned up to avoid attracting rodents.

 

Cats are excellent controls when they are born mousers. They are so fast on the kill a mouse doesn't have time to be scared. A good barn cat is amazing to watch. :ninja: It's another story if the cat has only thought of them as toys, and never learned the skill. They don't know how to do a clean kill, and and play with a mouse for ten or twenty minutes before killing it, and there is a chance that the mouse will escape.

 

When I was growing up, we had a cat who was a good outdoor mouser until he cracked a tooth, when he was about 12 years old. All of a sudden, the trophies he brought inside got up and started running. I ended up catching and dispatching four of them before his mouth healed. After that he either resumed killing them.

 

I am involved with animal rescue, by the way, and almost all of my reptiles and cats that I've had over the years have been rescues, as well as my horse. My horse was starved and abandoned, and a year later, she is gorgeous, although we are still working on issues she has from physical and mental abuse. We still know nothing about where she came from. She is a truly amazing survivor.

[GavinB]

Before you, or anyone, vilifies people like me for killing the rats and mice in the house, look at the reasons why. Mice and rats are dangerous vermin where I live. I live in a state where plague still exists and where the vermin (esp. deermice) can carry Hantavirus, which can cause a condition called Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome.

I don't vilify killing, I vilify torture.

 

When people put mice in pots and pour boiling water on them, or use glue traps and throw them out alive, etc that isn't pest control - that's just being evil.

[mipuppy1]

That's horrible! The poor mouse!

[Cecona]

The problem is, some breeds do have aggressive tendencies built right into them. They were bred as guard dogs or attack dogs, not pets. Doesn't mean they're guaranteed to hurt someone, but the risk is higher, especially when they're not well trained.

 

What I find crazy is that the smaller breeds that have the same tendencies, sometimes worse, are ignored. Dachshunds, for example, can be very very nasty, and have a definite tendency towards aggressiveness.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachshund#Temperament

I think because small dogs are.... well, small, cute, and don't do as much damage as a larger dog would people aren't as bothered when bit or attacked by a small dog. The person will be like "oh how cute he thinks he's a big tough dog"

 

But one thing about dogs and aggressiveness, especially breeds like pit bulls, is that it's in fact not it's natural behavior. It's a taught behavior that humans put them through. Before pit bulls were used majorly for dog fighting they were known as nanny dogs because of how good they were with children. Pit bulls are naturally sweet and loving, and it wasn't until people started using them as fighting dogs they gained the aggressiveness most people believe them to have. It also has a lot to do with how well the owner trains the dog and a bad owner results in a bad dog.

 

I've never met a pit bull in real life that was actually aggressive. I've met a few at the shelter that had a lot of energy and liked to jump on people but they don't bite. My friend's sister has a tiny chihuahua and a large pit bull and you are way more likely to get attacked by the 2 pound dog, and slobbered on by the pit. The pit was so sweet all she wanted to do was play fetch. She dropped the ball in my hand, I threw it, she brought it back and that continued for a long time.

 

I am extremely against the idea of putting an animal down unless it is in serious pain or so sick it will never get better. It's sickening to think that a kill shelter will put an animal down for something like not having enough space or no one adopting it. Thankfully there aren't any kill shelters around here, only non-kill ones.

[Pokemonfan13]

And I once knew a rottweiler named Angel who was, well, an angel. But she was apparently also trained as a guard dog. I say apparently because I never once saw her aggressive side.

 

 

I do think it's stupid to damn a breed just because of a reputation. If they want to discourage ownership of "aggressive" breeds, something like a tax would probably be effective enough. People getting a new dog who aren't decided on the breed would be steered away from the discouraged breeds because of the extra money they would cost to own. It would only be the true lovers of the breed who would pay the extra money to have them.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[MasterWeavile898]

I honestly understand the reasoning behind BSL, I don't think it's a good reason to put a dog down though. I can see there being a list of dogs that you can't own unless you have it certified as "safe" by a professional of some kind or something.

 

EDIT: Oh no, don't discourage people from adopting them. That would get them put down. Not adopted=death.

Edited September 14, 2013 by MasterWeavile898

[Nectaris]

And I once knew a rottweiler named Angel who was, well, an angel. But she was apparently also trained as a guard dog. I say apparently because I never once saw her aggressive side.

 

 

I do think it's stupid to damn a breed just because of a reputation. If they want to discourage ownership of "aggressive" breeds, something like a tax would probably be effective enough. People getting a new dog who aren't decided on the breed would be steered away from the discouraged breeds because of the extra money they would cost to own. It would only be the true lovers of the breed who would pay the extra money to have them.

I like that idea actually. I would also support hefty financial penalties on top of any medical costs if there is an incident, so that there would perhaps be more care in training them. I actually have met an aggressive pit bull, and they can be scary. However, I have also met many friendly ones, and have met more aggressive labs than aggressive pit bulls.

[MasterWeavile898]

I think someone said somewhere that labs were considered dangerous. And I completely understand why.

[Cecona]

Yea, instead of a ban an extra tax, but not so much the certificate idea. A "safe" dog now could end up trying to protect it's family/territory and then suddenly it's not safe anymore. If there is to be something like that it should be the person not the dog. Like, I know that to raise a pit bull properly you do need a certain amount of knowledge of them and dog training, it's definitely not a good idea to give an amateur dog owner a pit bull. So if they made it to where you needed a certificate saying you know what you're doing you would be able to have and keep a pit bull.

 

One thing that applies to both cat and dogs though, is that a single bite from one that results in bleeding is an automatic death sentence. I learned this when an ex of mine and I were looking for his cat and at the nearby pound I mentioned that she scratched me and made me bleed and an employee said that if they found her they would put her to sleep because of that. Thankfully they didn't find her. But... I mean it makes me so upset to think that a single incident is enough to make people think an animal deserves death.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Cecona

[Pokemonfan13]

I honestly understand the reasoning behind BSL, I don't think it's a good reason to put a dog down though. I can see there being a list of dogs that you can't own unless you have it certified as "safe" by a professional of some kind or something.

 

EDIT: Oh no, don't discourage people from adopting them. That would get them put down. Not adopted=death.

As long as those taxes aren't nationwide, just send extra discouraged breeds to other areas. And eventually there wouldn't be that many in pounds in taxed areas, since there wouldn't be much call for breeders and there wouldn't be that many in the area.

 

One thing that applies to both cat and dogs though, is that a single bite from one that results in bleeding is an automatic death sentence. I learned this when an ex of mine and I were looking for his cat and at the nearby pound I mentioned that she scratched me and made me bleed and an employee said that if they found her they would put her to sleep because of that. Thankfully they didn't find her. But... I mean it makes me so upset to think that a single incident is enough to make people think an animal deserves death.

That's just stupid. A cat with unclipped claws can make you bleed without even wanting to. And a perfectly nice cat can bite when messed with the wrong way. Some cats are super nice, but are still very protective of their belly and paws. It's not their fault you touched them in the wrong place.

 

My childhood cat made me bleed all the time.

 

 

It's basically condemning any cat that wasn't perfectly socialized from kittenhood and/or was mistreated at some point.

 

Although that might just be your area? I don't think it's that way around me.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[Cecona]

That was when I lived back in Texas, a very intolerant state when it comes to anything that isn't conservative and christian.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Cecona

[Nectaris]

 

One thing that applies to both cat and dogs though, is that a single bite from one that results in bleeding is an automatic death sentence. I learned this when an ex of mine and I were looking for his cat and at the nearby pound I mentioned that she scratched me and made me bleed and an employee said that if they found her they would put her to sleep because of that. Thankfully they didn't find her. But... I mean it makes me so upset to think that a single incident is enough to make people think an animal deserves death.

 

Not necessarily. The dogs next door bit several people and were never put down. Only when someone threatened to sue did they control their dogs. I also live in Texas.

[Pokemonfan13]

Not necessarily. The dogs next door bit several people and were never put down. Only when someone threatened to sue did they control their dogs. I also live in Texas.

I hate a-hole owners like that. Keeping your animals under control is one of the responsibilities of animal ownership.

[Cecona]

Not necessarily.  The dogs next door bit several people and were never put down.  Only when someone threatened to sue did they control their dogs.  I also live in Texas.

Did anyone ever report the bites? Maybe it depends on city/county as well, but I know that was how it was where I lived.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Cecona

[Nectaris]

Did anyone ever report the bites?

I have no idea, really. It doesn't matter now, the dog that was primarily responsible for it was put down for medical reasons a long time ago.

[Cecona]

Ah, see I'm pretty sure the bite has to be reported kinda like what I accidentally did when out looking for my ex's cat.

[eritated]

That's just stupid. A cat with unclipped claws can make you bleed without even wanting to. And a perfectly nice cat can bite when messed with the wrong way. Some cats are super nice, but are still very protective of their belly and paws. It's not their fault you touched them in the wrong place.

This so much. My one cat, who literally won't even hurt a fly, bit me today. He made my finger bleed, but it was my fault because I didn't realize he was getting annoyed with me.

[Cecona]

I was appalled when the employee told me too, believe me. Definitely glad I'm not living there anymore.

 

I'm also glad that it's seen an inhumane to declaw a cat. It makes me sick to see people (like my mother, unfortunately) put stuff like mass produced, identical to the last furniture before the well being of a living feeling creature. She says that because it hasn't happened to any of the cats we've owned she doesn't believe the cats are actually effected by having their first knuckle removed. The only reason the new cat isn't declawed is because the shelter makes all new owners promise to never declaw the cat they are adopting. They also make people promise to never tether/tie up their new dog.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Cecona