polygamy

[Viktorya]

I'd get too jealous. Not for me, but I'm alright with other people having multiple spouses.

Yeah, from what I've seen it seems that jealousy is probably the #1 issue with poly relationships... I don't have that problem, though (I guess I'm lucky)! Since there are only three people in my relationship it's not too hard to give pretty equal amounts of attention to both my bf/gf. We also agreed that we probably won't have anyone else in our group in the near future and we are all VERY loyal to each other so I don't think that any of us ever worry about cheating or anything like that. Sadly, though, not everyone has it that easy

 

On jealousy...

I think that a big factor in people's jealousy is that monogamy is just so forced on us by society--anything else is weird, kinky (too many times have I seen polyamory and BDSM mentioned together--why this happens is beyond me, they have nothing in common o_o), or just plain wrong. If your partner even looks at someone else they might want to cheat on you. If you have an open relationship or date more than one person you're a . You cannot love more than one person without sacrificing love for someone else. etc etc. I think that because of that, a lot of people have an internalised fear of their partner(s) cheating on them or leaving them or whatever! I could be completely wrong though, this is just from what I've seen.

Edited February 10, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Daydreamer09]

On jealousy...

I think that a big factor in people's jealousy is that monogamy is just so forced on us by society--anything else is weird, kinky (too many times have I seen polyamory and BDSM mentioned together--why this happens is beyond me, they have nothing in common o_o), or just plain wrong. If your partner even looks at someone else they might want to cheat on you. If you have an open relationship or date more than one person you're a . You cannot love more than one person without sacrificing love for someone else. etc etc. I think that because of that, a lot of people have an internalised fear of their partner(s) cheating on them or leaving them or whatever! I could be completely wrong though, this is just from what I've seen.

I don't think monogamy is the cause for jealousy. If you fear or worry that your significant other is cheating on you or will leave, that's because you don't have enough trust in their faithfulness and love, whether that be based upon paranoia or by familiarity with their character. Lack of openess is also why those kinds of fears erupt. People who are open about seeing other partners, probably for this reason, don't have this issue so much.

 

I don't really care how other people live their lives. Its theirs to do with as they choose.

 

Polygamy is something I could never do. If someone I loved deeply, loved another, I would be hurt. Not jealous hurt, but... Hurt in knowing that I wasn't enough for them. Sharing that sort of space in someone's heart, for me, means that I'm not enough alone to fill it. And that, in itself, is painful.

[Viktorya]

I don't think monogamy is the cause for jealousy. If you fear or worry that your significant other is cheating on you or will leave, that's because you don't have enough trust in their faithfulness and love, whether that be based upon paranoia or by familiarity with their character. Lack of openess is also why those kinds of fears erupt. People who are open about seeing other partners, probably for this reason, don't have this issue so much.

 

I don't really care how other people live their lives. Its theirs to do with as they choose.

 

Polygamy is something I could never do. If someone I loved deeply, loved another, I would be hurt. Not jealous hurt, but... Hurt in knowing that I wasn't enough for them. Sharing that sort of space in someone's heart, for me, means that I'm not enough alone to fill it. And that, in itself, is painful.

I agree with what you're saying about the fear/lack of openness being a problem in relationships. I still believe that the fear of open relationships or being labelled/seen as being promiscuous (and that in turn being seen as a bad thing) is still the fault of our society though. It isn't the entire reason, but it's part of it.

 

As for you being hurt... (I'm not trying to belittle your feelings because they're totally valid!) But just remember that love isn't a tangible thing--it doesn't run out or have a limit. If being poly isn't your thing that's fine (that's not what I'm trying to argue, it's fine if you're not comfortable with it) but many people are still capable of giving 100% of their affection to more than one person at a time. Not everyone, but some people can, myself included.

[Daydreamer09]

As for you being hurt... (I'm not trying to belittle your feelings because they're totally valid!) But just remember that love isn't a tangible thing--it doesn't run out or have a limit. If being poly isn't your thing that's fine (that's not what I'm trying to argue, it's fine if you're not comfortable with it) but many people are still capable of giving 100% of their affection to more than one person at a time. Not everyone, but some people can, myself included.

I would want someone who can be filled by my 100%. Although love is immeasurable and intangible, if they are receiving love and affection from someone else, my 100% is not enough. What I give would only be a portion of what they'd receive. For this reason, I could not put another person I care about in this situation, knowing that in their shoes, I would feel this way.

 

These are just my ideals, so of course, you have different wants and opinions when it comes to relationships.

[~Kat~]

What does Scripture say about Polygamy?

 

In Matt. 19:4 we are told by Jesus that God created one “male and [one] female” and joined them in marriage. Mark 10:6-8:"But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female.' 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 'and the two shall become one flesh'; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.

The two as one is the pattern on how marriage was to be conducted from the start. NOT three or four as one.

 

Eve was taken from Adams body and given back to him as his wife (singular) showing God’s approval of what the marriage union is to be like. God always spoke of man's “wife,” as singular, not wives. Notice it also states one father one mother.

 

It wasn’t until sin made man fall (Gen. 4:23) that polygamy occurs. Cain was cursed, Lamech is a descendent of Cain and the first to practice polygamy. The first time polygamous relationship is found in the Bible is with a thriving rebellious society in sin; when a murderer named “Lamech [a descendant of Cain] took for himself two wives” (Gen.4:19, 23).

 

The same Godly pattern of one man and one wife is lived by Noah. At the time of the Ark (Gen. 7:7), Noah took his one wife into the ark, all his son’s took one wife; God called Noah’s family righteous and pure. If polygamy were ordained of God, it would have made sense that Noah and his sons would have taken additional wives with them to repopulate the earth faster from the cataclysm.

 

 

This was to be a permanent union between man and woman that they might be helpful to one another (Genesis 2:18). Marriage represents a relationship of both spiritual and physical unity.

 

Hebrews 13:3-4: “Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.”

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/polygamy.html

[Dauntingale]

Oh, I just read a (fictional) book about this, but there are real communities like it. For religious reasons, all the teenage girls had to marry a (old) man to take them to Heaven. Some girls who "practiced purity" like it and embraced the tradition, but others were kind of forced to against their will. They weren't allowed to talk to boys their own age. (The book is Sister Wife, if you're interested.)

 

So, I'd say it's okay if everyone, including the wives, are happy, but if they must enter a polygamous relationship against their will, or something of the like, it's not.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Dauntingale

[~Kat~]

Oh, I just read a (fictional) book about this, but there are real communities like it. For religious reasons, all the teenage girls had to marry a (old) man to take them to Heaven. Some girls who "practiced purity" like it and embraced the tradition, but others were kind of forced to against their will. They weren't allowed to talk to boys their own age. (The book is Sister Wife, if you're interested.)

 

So, I'd say it's okay if everyone, including the wives, are happy, but if they must enter a polygamous relationship against their will, or something of the like, it's not.

Sick people and dirty old men

[hazeh]

Sick people and dirty old men

Well it was a fictional book. I'd be careful what you say, since there are people here in happy and equal polygamous relationships that could take your statement very badly.

 

Also, about your scripture, I don't see what it has any business doing here. That's your religion, not everyone else's.

[greylight]

The two as one is the pattern on how marriage was to be conducted from the start. NOT three or four as one.

 

In that case, however, you have god giving someone their soul mate. That almost never happens again.

 

God always spoke of man's �wife,� as singular, not wives. Notice it also states one father one mother.

 

No he didn't! In fact, the only person ordered to only have one wife is a bishop or deacon -- A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach. (I Timothy)

 

What does Scripture actually say about polygamy?

 

Well, God must have been okay with it in David's case -- he says he gave multiple wives to him --

 

And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things." (2 Samuel 12:8)

 

And he orders Hosea to take another wife!

 

"Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine." (Hosea 3:1)

 

He gives rules to what has to be met in order to have multiple wives:

 

If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. (Exodus 21:10)

 

He must not take too many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold. (Exodus 21:10)

 

Of course, Moses seemed to have no trouble with his two wives, and God never mentioned to him that he shouldn't. In fact, God never mentioned this to a lot of the people he talked to, it seems.

 

Gideon had "many" wives:

 

"And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives." (Judges 8:30 )

 

Ezra had at least two, and he was actually considered a prophet!

 

And children's inheritances:

If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love. He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father’s strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him. (Deuteronomy 21:15-17)

 

This was to be a permanent union between man and woman that they might be helpful to one another (Genesis 2:18). Marriage represents a relationship of both spiritual and physical unity.

 

And what if a third is required for that unity, what then? I certainly think my wives are helpful to me -- I can't imagine my life with either of them missing. It would be like asking me what life would be like with my arm missing.

 

 

[~Kat~]

Well it was a fictional book. I'd be careful what you say, since there are people here in happy and equal polygamous relationships that could take your statement very badly.

 

Also, about your scripture, I don't see what it has any business doing here. That's your religion, not everyone else's.

I am strictly talking about the way you describe the book. Sometimes some need to read between the lines please!!!

[hazeh]

I am strictly talking about the way you describe the book. Sometimes some need to read between the lines please!!!

Sometimes it's not that easy when you have one comment to two different ideas.

[Alpha1]

Polygamy is bad social policy for the same reason that gay marriage is good social policy. Everyone should have the opportunity to marry.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Do not support. The minute you have to divide your strongest love between multiple people is the moment you stop experiencing true and total love. :/

 

Also SHS considering religion is a big driving force in a lot of people's lives I think it has every right to be mentioned here.

 

My own thoughts about the Bible and polygamy are that there are a lot of places where what was just being recorded as fact gets mixed in with what God specifically commanded. I see lessons in the Bible against it; besides it originally being Adam and Eve and not Adam, Eve, and Juliet, there's the fact that Abraham and Solomon had a lot of grief inflicted on them because they had more than one lover.

[hazeh]

Do not support. The minute you have to divide your strongest love between multiple people is the moment you stop experiencing true and total love. :/

 

Also SHS considering religion is a big driving force in a lot of people's lives I think it has every right to be mentioned here.

 

My own thoughts about the Bible and polygamy are that there are a lot of places where what was just being recorded as fact gets mixed in with what God specifically commanded. I see lessons in the Bible against it; besides it originally being Adam and Eve and not Adam, Eve, and Juliet, there's the fact that Abraham and Solomon had a lot of grief inflicted on them because they had more than one lover.

Maybe it's that way for you, but you've got no place trying to tell someone else how they love. Just take Greylight for example. He's explained very clearly the type of love and relationship he has with his two wives. You can't speak for someone else.

 

Sure, they can use that for their OWN justification. But you cannot use your own religion to control someone else's life. That was my point.

 

I don't see what the first two people in the Bible have anything to do with it. That's like saying "no Adam and Steve!" though, very clearly, two men are quite capable of a loving relationship just as heterosexual couples are.

[~Kat~]

Do not support. The minute you have to divide your strongest love between multiple people is the moment you stop experiencing true and total love. :/

 

Also SHS considering religion is a big driving force in a lot of people's lives I think it has ev

ery right to be mentioned here.

 

My own thoughts about the Bible and polygamy are that there are a lot of places where what was just being recorded as fact gets mixed in with what God specifically commanded. I see lessons in the Bible against it; besides it originally being Adam and Eve and not Adam, Eve, and Juliet, there's the fact that Abraham and Solomon had a lot of grief inflicted on them because they had more than one lover.

I have to agree with you.

 

You have explained this very well.

 

Some people do not know how to interpret the bible either

 

Abraham and Solomon did have a lot of grief over it.

[greylight]

The minute you have to divide your strongest love between multiple people is the moment you stop experiencing true and total love. :/

 

Wow. So, the minute a widower remarries, he no longer loved his deceased wife totally and truly?

 

I would die for either of my wives, in a heartbeat. I would do anything for either of them.

 

My own thoughts about the Bible and polygamy are that there are a lot of places where what was just being recorded as fact gets mixed in with what God specifically commanded. I see lessons in the Bible against it; besides it originally being Adam and Eve and not Adam, Eve, and Juliet, there's the fact that Abraham and Solomon had a lot of grief inflicted on them because they had more than one lover.

 

So what about when God specifically commands Hosea to take a second wife? Or when God says he gave David his master's wives?

 

Polygamy is bad social policy for the same reason that gay marriage is good social policy. Everyone should have the opportunity to marry.

 

Everyone except those in plural relationships?

[hazeh]

Some people do not know how to interpret the bible either

 

Who's to say you're interpreting it right? No one can ever know for sure with all the different translations out there.

[lightbird]

I'm fine with polygamy as long as everyone involved has given their consent. End of story.

[NobleOwl]

Here's the Jew's two cents -- G-d gave laws explicitly dealing with how polygamy had to work. If he was against it, he would have said so, rather than saying "this is what you have to do to have another wife."

 

Solomon and Abraham had problems -- Moses didn't, neither did Ezra, neither did the majority of the polygamists in the Tanakh.

 

There are 613 laws, I think he could have fit it in.

 

 

[Walker]

I have to agree with you.

 

You have explained this very well.

 

Some people do not know how to interpret the bible either

 

Abraham and Solomon did have a lot of grief over it.

The only person who knows how to properly interpret the bible is the people who wrote the passages. Anyone else beyond that is only guessing at the author's intended message.

[Alpha1]

Everyone except those in plural relationships?

 

Monogamy is more egalitarian. This is similar to the arguments for universal health care or wealth distribution.

 

It doesn't take much for polygamist societies to increase competition among men by a lot. If 10% in the U.S. practiced polygamy with 5% of them with 2 wives, 3% with 3 wives, and 2% with 4 wives, the effect on the competition for women would be similar to China's current ratio of men and women.

 

Here's the Jew's two cents -- G-d gave laws explicitly dealing with how polygamy had to work. If he was against it, he would have said so, rather than saying "this is what you have to do to have another wife."

 

Does it always refer to polygyny?

 

So what about when God specifically commands Hosea to take a second wife? Or when God says he gave David his master's wives?

 

God didn't command anyone. That's a man thinking with his Y chromosome!

Edited August 2, 2012 by Alpha1

[~Kat~]

Here's the Jew's two cents -- G-d gave laws explicitly dealing with how polygamy had to work. If he was against it, he would have said so, rather than saying "this is what you have to do to have another wife."

 

Solomon and Abraham had problems -- Moses didn't, neither did Ezra, neither did the majority of the polygamists in the Tanakh.

 

There are 613 laws, I think he could have fit it in.

Some might be surprised to learn that Moses may have been a polygamist. Although we cannot know this for certain, what is fairly certain is that Moses had two wives: 1) Zipporah (Exodus 2:15-16,21 and Exodus 18:1-6 2) and an Ethiopian woman (Numbers 12:1-15). Of course, it is possible that the first wife died before Moses married his second wife. The Bible simply doesn't tell us.

 

Some have suggested that Zipporah and the Ethiopian woman were one and the same. However, Zipporah was of the tribe of Midian. Genesis 25:1-3 shows that Midian was one of the six sons born unto Abraham by Keturah. Therefore, Zipporah was a descendant of Abraham. Abraham was a descendant of Noah's son Shem, according to Genesis 10:1; 11:11-27. But the Ethiopian woman descended from Cush, who descended from a different son of Noah, Ham (Genesis 10:1,6). Therefore, since Zipporah was a descendent of Noah's son, Shem, and since the Ethiopian woman who was a descendant of Ham, Shem's brother, Zipporah and the Ethiopian woman could not have been the same person. Furthermore, we can determine the timing of Moses' two marriages.

 

The record of Moses' marriage to the Ethiopian woman is found in Numbers 33:1-49,17, 11:35, and 12:1-16. This is much later than Moses' marriage to Zipporah in recorded in Exodus 2:15,22

[pudding]

So we've heard arguments from the bible. Can anyone describe any that aren't religious for the atheists? And I mean ones other than love being divided or not.

 

Oh, and I find nothing wrong with polygamy. Like a child can love their father and mother equally, I think love can also be dicided among multiple people. Assuming everyone is happy and the family can function, naturally.

Edited August 2, 2012 by pudding

[Alpha1]

And I mean ones other than love being divided or not

 

Did you read my posts?

 

http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10142

[pudding]

There is a start. But I've read over that and the article does a poor job of citing its sources. At one point, it references criminological data but gives no name as to where it retrieved said data from.