Completely Different

About two weeks ago, I started encountering a very odd and frustrating error. I couldn't load certain websites, no matter how many times I refreshed, no matter what browser I used. The error's name and exact explanation would change depending on which one I was using, but Firefox called it a “ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR”. Its a very small number of websites, maybe only about 5%, but they're very often IMPORTANT websites, and official ones, too. I started with basic trouble-shooting. I restarted my broswers, then restarted my computer. I looked up solutions online. The most common solution was that my computer's time had gotten out-of-synch, and correcting it would fix it. My computer's clock DOES do that a lot, but I found correcting the time did nothing. (Its possible that because of all the travelling I've done with it of late, it literally doesn't know what time-zone is the 'right' one). I've tried what few other suggestions are out there. I've tried messing around with Google Chrome's settings, but found nothing that works. I've tried manually editing Chrome's properties, but it refuses to do anything. I've tried a system restore to an earllier date. Nothing. It refuses to let me to log onto some important sites I need to access for school, but nothing I do seems to fix it. Any ideas?

Ooooh, this sounds fun. I'm down. I'll be bolding the ones in the pair I prefer. Just a general note, though, that at this point the list is filled with SO MANY awesome dragons, and I'll often adore both dragons in a pair, so no hard feelings meant. Acorn VS Aero (I've loved this draogn for YEARS) Akuma VS Alabaster Ambrosial VS Amour Propre Anathema Dragon VS Ancient Luminescent Angelfish VS Antarean Aposematic Water VS Apple Mints (both varieties) Aquamarine Dino VS Archipelago Arctic Bat VS Arctic Fox Argent Bat VS Argon Armoured Western VS Artistic Assassino VS Auroral Flareback- I'm going to null my vote here, since it doesn't seem fair to vote on a dragon I created. Austral VS Azure Azure Glacewing VS Backflip Banana Pygmy VS Bane Barb-TailedVS Battle Bear VS Bichir Biped VS Black Capped Black Dino VS Black Ray Lindwurm Black Shuck VS Black Tri Blackphase VS Blade Blazeback VS Blind Bloom VS Blossom Angels Blue Rose VS Blue Screecher Blue Tongue VS Blue-Streaked Bluver Pygmy VS Bog Lich BorealVS Briar Brown Dino VS Bubble Bull Wyvern VS Bulwark Butcher VS Cactus Pygmy Caldera VS Calligraphy Caped VS Cascade Dancer Catkin VS Celestial Imitators Cerise-Winged VS Chameleon Channel-Light Dragonet VS Charcoal Charred VS Cherry- I'll null my vote for conflicting interest, again. Chi-Wing VS Chickadee Pygmy Chimeric Amphiptere VS Chocolate Tipped Cielarch VS Cinderwing Amphithere Citrus Wyvern VS Cleaner Pygmy Cliffhopper VS Colibri Comet Amphiptere VS Common Coral VS Coral Reef Corn Wyrm VS Corrosive Spitter Cowardly VS Crawler Pygmy Crescent-Tailed Moonflier VS Crystal Song Cyan VS Daedalean Dancing VS Dark Weaver Darkwing VS Dazzeltail Dragon Deathbringer VS Deep Cave

Neato! Definitely signing up, and looking forward to it.

Okay, fixed, and with Shadow Walkers and Imperials added. To view full size click on the photo and press the little magnifying glass symbol It is amusing how many dragons are smaller than mints these days.

^ Ooops-a-dasie, you're right. I'll go fix that (and add in Shadow Walkers too, I guess).

OK, so I made an updated version of the size chart, including Soulpeace, Royal Blues, Tri-Horn Wyverns, Turpentines, Coppers and the corrected Neotropical size. ...I just realized that I forgot to put Shadow Walkers on there, but since I'm lazy, that may need to wait until another mass update. If anything seems wrong, just speak up.

Tubal ligation is indeed an option, but not for everyone. It ranges in price from $1000 to $6000 dollars, so poorer women- the ones who are most often looking for abortions- can't afford them. It also doesn't cover people who would like to have children one day, but for some reason don't think they're in a position at the moment, or who were raped at a young age.

Well, I'm by no means an expert, but there are numerous reasons... a quick google search of "pregnancy caused mental illness" quickly leads to a lot resources and explanations. Here's a quick summary. - Depression and anxiety directly related to how to care for the child, both during pregnancy and afterwards. (One resource I found, from Standford School of Medicine, says that up to 10% of pregnant women can suffer from major depression...one of the symptoms of which are recurrent thoughts of death and suicide). - Women who suffer or have suffered from eating disorders such as bulimia or anorexia may suffer severe body issues due to the weight gain and other body changes. - Furthermore, many women already suffering from various psychiatric disorders stop or change medicines during pregnancy to protect the fetus, which can lead to relapses. - I also understand that trauma is quite common in female-to-male transgendered individuals (which physically can't stand their female body), as well as in individuals who got pregnant from rape. That said, I'm not an expert. I highly suggest doing some research yourself. Edited to fix minor grammatical error.

I used to feel very much the same way as you. The fetus was alive, and even if we don't know its conscious, shouldn't we err on the side of caution? I've discovered since then that its far more complicated than that. There are many women out there who feel that abortion is their only option. Maybe they'll be abused by their partner and/or family if they discover they're pregnant, maybe they suffer from extreme gender dysphoria that the pregnancy will agitate, maybe they're simply very poor and don't think they can support the baby. Okay, I said. Those are some pretty bad problems, but I don't think they outweigh the potential life of the baby. But here's the problem. Outlawing abortions doesn't stop them from happening. Many women will just seek other routes of doing the same thing. Many will attempt to miscarriage, others will explictly seek out back street abortions. These are very dangerous, and often kill the mother- meaning that not only is the embryo dead, but another life, too. Allowing women safe abortions prevents this. Since then, I've also come to the opinion that embryo's can't be conscious until later in the pregnancy when the brain is fully developed, but that to me is of secondary importance to my previous point.

The context is rather different, though. I really don't care about a single tree being cut down (after all, I have no problem with tree products, such as wooden furniture or paper, as long as they're in small quantities). However, what I do care about is the large scale destruction of trees, since it destroys valuable habitat for many species and contributes to climate change, since trees (or rather, forests) are carbon sinks. Embryos don't do either of those things. The other difference is that trees aren't attached to another person. They're a totally independent living organism. An embryo, however, is living inside the woman, and can threaten both her physical and mental well-being and even her life.

^ Its true, one of the definitions of life is to reproduce. However, alive doesn't mean sentient. Nobody is doubting whether an embryo is alive; what's in question is if the embryo is conscious and deserves the same rights as a person. After all, single celled organisms, plants and insects can all reproduce, and they're not sentient (at least, almost certainly not).

@Libby, thanks. I missed their release and haven't seen a single one in cave yet, so I was wondering if there was a case of them being rarer than their "common" designation would suggest.

What's the approximate worth of an Imperial Fleshcrowne? Not necessarily CB, lineages would work too.

What I love about this list is every time I return there are dozens of new concepts (and in some ways, more intriguingly, concepts missing, meaning they're probably pending release....I have my fingers crossed for Pearl-Eaters and Face-Eaters. A lot of eating, going on, I guess.) That said, its now so long I feel like I can't make a meaningful list anymore: there's too many amazing dragons.

AHAHAHA, I finally summoned my second GoN!

Swwwweeeet. More two-heads, always appreciated.

^ I personally think it depends on how and why you want to be a girl. For example, when I was a child, I occasionally wished that I was a boy, because I didn't think I was pretty enough to be a girl, and I wanted to do more stereotypical boy things. Eventually I came to realise that it wasn't so much my sex or gender that I had a problem with, but of the unfair restrictions imposed on me because of them, and the realization that I could act how I want. If someone genuinely feels uncomfortable in their body, though, and its more prolonged, I believe they could be considered transgendered. (There's also the possibility that the person could be gender-fluid or have no set gender). PS. Just is all just my understanding of it, so I may have incorrect information.

I just caught a leetle tree. An actual leetle tree. Squeeee.

Anybody have any opinions on the worth of a CB black? I remember a few years ago when they were ridiculously high value, but now I'm not sure.

Beautiful work, Earthi, as always. I particularly adore the shading the ferocity.

This is why I adore JOTB's art. Its so simple, so grounded in reality. I look at that dragon and think "Yes, that's an animal that could really exist." I mean, not to say I don't like our more fantastical dragons, but these appeal to the biologist in me.

Aw, the gendered hatchies are so cute. <3 I'm really looking forward to this one. I always love JOTB's dragons, they look so realistic.

^ LadyLyzar did the hatchlings.

Oh, I see what you mean. I agree, natural hellfire wyverns are probably not creatures I'd want to hang out with naturally; I just think their behaviour is probably rather understandable. Or, at least to themselves. If they're anything like humans, they probably have a whole host of explanations for why its justified. (Not to mention, I think they're really freaking cool looking.) I'm really loving this discussion, too. Morality and animal behaviour and fantasy tropes; that's the kind of conversation I like.

@ Lantean: Sure, they're intelligent beings- but just being intelligent doesn't necessitate being moral. Really, it makes logical sense that some intelligent beings who keep the same harsh, fierce instincts they evolved when they weren't sapient. And while Drag Cave definitely has a supernatural theme, many of the breeds are natural animals- sure, they have magic, but they're the same as every other creature. I also think its different from the fantasy trope of the Always Evil Species, since the description outright says their meanness is partly cultural. Personally, every concept I make for DragCave has its species behaviour very much rooted in nature. So every breed- even ones that can be quite nice and good company in the right conditions- has some natural traits humans wouldn't find particularly pleasant. For example, wild BBW are kind of xenophobic. They hate mixing with other breeds. I think it makes the cave more fleshed out if we have a wide range of behaviours.