Dragon Descriptions in first person if the dragon "talks"?

[Leelith]

Hey there,

 

I actually love to describe my dragons, but I stopped it already years ago, bc there is always too less place, at least in my case.  There are only 1000 characters to write the text, which is not enough, for me at least, bc I most often love to write a whole story. 

So a couple days ago and after years, I sat down again, to describe one of my beautiful dragons, by writing a whole story.  This story is about the dragon herself is describing a new world with new creatures, whose protector she is. That's why the dragon wrote in first person.  

 

I understood the description guidelines in the direction, that the only permissible form to use first person is, when it is used from the dragon's point of view. So that “I” doesn’t mean the scroll owner, but the dragon.

Is this right or do we always have to avoid first person? Bc if this is right, and we can only use 1st person from the dragons view,  many people seem to think we always have to avoid 1st person. Bc in the decription rating area some people reject the text of the 1st person thing.  And some  reject, bc I had to cut and shorten the story, due to the fact there is too less place to write, so that the dragon focused on what she wanted to describe the most.  But now people say, the story is not really about the dragon but about the other creatures in the new world, whose protector she is. If there would be enough place and I didn't have to shorten the story, I/she could describe herself and her role properly. 

 

What do you think about more characters to describe our dragons? If some of you think, that would be too much text to read, I only can say, that most players write very short descriptions anyway and I very rarely see long descriptions.  I don't think more characters would change the whole thing, bc most people even don't use the 1000. Which is pretty cool, bc I really admire and love if someone has the ability to say much in less words.  And if someone don't like long text, s/he doesn't have to read.  

 

But only 1000 characters to describe the dragon/to write the dragons story, at least for me, is is too less place. I think 5000 characters would be amazing. That is what I would need, to write my dragons stories in an adequate way.  What creatues life/story is written down in 1000 characters? 

 

Do other people have the problem too, that 1000 characters are most often too few ?  But even if not, I always see only a very few people writing a whole story, and bc it's only a few who does, it shouldn't be a problem to set high the amount of characters. 

 

And the "first person thing", did I misinterpret the description guidelines, that first person is only okay, if it's from the dragons perspective? Because then in this case, some players unfairly criticize when you write in first person from the dragon's perspective, because they probably don't know, unless I'm wrong about this anyway.
But I think in general for such cases: if someone unjustifiably criticizes and rejects a description, you should be able to respond to these comments. Or at least see the name of the person criticizing so you can reach out to him/her, to clear the whole thing up.  I just mention this, because you can see, when you read through the descriptions, that some players really put a lot of effort into their descriptions, investing a lot of time, thought and imagination, and I think it's a shame if they are maybe unjustifiably rejected, only because the reviewer simply misunderstood something.

 

Thanks in advance. 😊

[Zonnedauw]

I partially support this. Personally, I do think the 1000 is a bit hard to work with, but also a fun challenge. I feel like I wouldn't read 5000 character descriptions on others' dragons, but 1000 or shorter is much more manageable. I kind of enjoy being forced to convey a story in <1000 words.

 

It also speeds up the review process. I frequently review others descriptions and it never feels like a chore, even if the descriptions differ in quality of the writing. I'm not sure if I would review as often if the descriptions were 5x as long.

 

As for the first person rule, I feel like the types of descriptions this is used to prevent are these:

"I am Growly mcgrowlface, a red dragon and I am the strongest on the mountain. I can breathe fire for 3 minutes straight, fly very fast and enjoy long walks on the beach. Rawr!"

 

I do like writing some dialog in dragon descriptions, and I have had people reject it because they saw an 'I' at the start of a sentence. A bit of an overreaction, I think, but by far most people accept this use of indirect first person.

 

Then again, I only recently started writing descriptions and the most I have are 3 on pending, so who knows. Maybe mine will get officially rejected ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[SkyWolf25]

First person is not allowed. What the guideline means is that some people may write "I" from the scroll owner's perspective and some people may write "I" from the dragon's perspective, which can be confusing and not unified. Only third person is allowed.

 

You will also not be rejected by user votes or commentary if they are unfair. All descriptions are looked over and manually approved by a moderator. 

[Zonnedauw]

19 minutes ago, SkyWolf25 said:

First person is not allowed. What the guideline means is that some people may write "I" from the scroll owner's perspective and some people may write "I" from the dragon's perspective, which can be confusing and not unified. Only third person is allowed.

 

You will also not be rejected by user votes or commentary if they are unfair. All descriptions are looked over and manually approved by a moderator. 

 

Okay, that's good to know, thanks for clarifying. I guess in that case I have no descriptions yet. 

 

I would really like clarification though, this still kind of confuses me. Could I ask, a description like I did on this dragon, would that be against the rules?

[Moonlightelf]

29 minutes ago, SkyWolf25 said:

First person is not allowed. What the guideline means is that some people may write "I" from the scroll owner's perspective and some people may write "I" from the dragon's perspective, which can be confusing and not unified. Only third person is allowed.

 

As the guideline has been brought up, I'm gonna quote straight from it:

Quote

Avoid First Person

On the scroll, there is no “I,” there is no clear speaker. Thus, it makes no sense to use first person. Some might deduce that the scroll owner is the one talking, but not everyone will, and some people write their descriptions from the dragon’s perspective. Every other description on a dragon’s info page is in 3rd person, and spontaneous shifts between two points of view are frowned upon as awkward and confusing.

 

As far as the guideline can be interpreted, it is only recommended to avoid the 1st person, not flat out denied or against rules per say. So technically the wording in the guideline does allow the 1st person, but it is frowned upon due to mentioned reasons.

 

If supposedly the 1st person, as you say, is not allowed, it should reflect in the guidelines as "Do not use first person" instead. Thus the guideline itself should be edited to avoid the confusion. But this is only if the rule indeed is supposed to be that we are not allowed to use 1st person.

[Kaini]

The scroll descriptions are, in-universe, meant to have been written by you, the mage scroll keeper, as observations about your dragon. They are not written by the dragon, which is why it makes no sense to use first person. That is how descriptions are judged. It's meant to describe the dragon from the human mage's perspective, in the third person. Written like a paper (?) and not a journal. 

 

'I' could be potentially be used in dialogue, as in "[The dragon] said 'I am the most beautiful in the land!'" But in describing something the dragon said or did once. 

 

But also please no don't make me read more than 1k characters lol, I already have a backlog of 5k descriptions to read (and I've done over 13k myself) I do not need more work 😅 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Kaini

[Stormphoenix42]

(Lol ninja'd by Kaini)
Personally, I read "avoid first person" as "do not use first person." Your interpretation may be different, but descriptions using first person are almost certainly going to be rejected based on the guidelines - it's even a pre-filled reason for rejection when users are reviewing.

 

50 minutes ago, Zonnedauw said:

 

Okay, that's good to know, thanks for clarifying. I guess in that case I have no descriptions yet. 

 

I would really like clarification though, this still kind of confuses me. Could I ask, a description like I did on this dragon, would that be against the rules?

I think the first-person within the dialogue is fine here, but the "electronic devices" and synthesized music might get it rejected for not being lore-compliant.

[FuecocoBoi09]

I use first person while making it clear I am the one speaking

[Stormphoenix42]

1 minute ago, FuecocoBoi09 said:

I use first person while making it clear I am the one speaking

That's still likely to get your description rejected - as mentioned in the guidelines, "Every other description on a dragon’s info page is in 3rd person, and spontaneous shifts between two points of view are frowned upon as awkward and confusing."  Figuring out who the speaker is is not the only issue.

[FuecocoBoi09]

Just now, Stormphoenix42 said:

That's still likely to get your description rejected - as mentioned in the guidelines, "Every other description on a dragon’s info page is in 3rd person, and spontaneous shifts between two points of view are frowned upon as awkward and confusing."  Figuring out who the speaker is is not the only issue.

This is what I currently have down for a discription of one of my dragons:

 

Fuecoco's Field Guide volume 7: Another of these cool worm (or "wyrms" these other dragon tamers insist on calling them) dragons. From information I've gathered, this seems to be the Xenowyrm of light. They definitely are lively. They always are getting up to something, and with the amount they get tangled up with the other worms, they definitely bring life to the name "Noodle Soup". At first, I named them "Razing Cane's", thinking that the desert-like color scheme was more desolation than the bright light of it. I might change it in the future, but it will stay put for now. Fuecoco, signing out.

 

I

[Stormphoenix42]

1 minute ago, FuecocoBoi09 said:

This is what I currently have down for a discription of one of my dragons:

 

Fuecoco's Field Guide volume 7: Another of these cool worm (or "wyrms" these other dragon tamers insist on calling them) dragons. From information I've gathered, this seems to be the Xenowyrm of light. They definitely are lively. They always are getting up to something, and with the amount they get tangled up with the other worms, they definitely bring life to the name "Noodle Soup". At first, I named them "Razing Cane's", thinking that the desert-like color scheme was more desolation than the bright light of it. I might change it in the future, but it will stay put for now. Fuecoco, signing out.

 

I

That one could be alright, since it's written as if it were an entry in a book instead of being said directly, but ultimately it'd be up to a moderator.

Anyway, I think we're getting a little off-topic Personally, I don't mind the 1,000 character limit - it can be challenging sometimes, but that's part of the fun.

[SkyWolf25]

52 minutes ago, Moonlightelf said:

 

As the guideline has been brought up, I'm gonna quote straight from it:

 

As far as the guideline can be interpreted, it is only recommended to avoid the 1st person, not flat out denied or against rules per say. So technically the wording in the guideline does allow the 1st person, but it is frowned upon due to mentioned reasons.

 

If supposedly the 1st person, as you say, is not allowed, it should reflect in the guidelines as "Do not use first person" instead. Thus the guideline itself should be edited to avoid the confusion. But this is only if the rule indeed is supposed to be that we are not allowed to use 1st person.

As Stormphoenix said; "Avoid first person" means do not use first person.

[jellystualy]

An arguably easy solution to working around the idea of dialogue—if necessary—could be using passive voice, which still keeps things in third person and avoids making things sound awkward, I think

 

Also, switching between third and first person often looks flimsy and not just in a DC-sense but also a writing sense overall, and dialogue would be rather silly-looking in a dragon description imo..

[MissK.]

I do think that the first person guideline could be seen as misleading. It sounds a bit like something that can be done, but maybe to a smaller degree or not often. If it is in fact allowed in small ways such as an internal thought or line of dialogue with everything else narrated in third person, while writing the full thing in first person would be instant rejection, then it might be more helpful if the guidelines reflect that. 

 

However, this is meant to be a description of the dragon, not a story. Why would the dragon be describing themselves, why not write the same thing in third person? It is not a narration or a full story plot or a journal, just a paragraph to describe what a creature is like. 

[Fuzzbucket]

16 hours ago, FuecocoBoi09 said:

This is what I currently have down for a discription of one of my dragons:

 

Fuecoco's Field Guide volume 7: Another of these cool worm (or "wyrms" these other dragon tamers insist on calling them) dragons. From information I've gathered, this seems to be the Xenowyrm of light. They definitely are lively. They always are getting up to something, and with the amount they get tangled up with the other worms, they definitely bring life to the name "Noodle Soup". At first, I named them "Razing Cane's", thinking that the desert-like color scheme was more desolation than the bright light of it. I might change it in the future, but it will stay put for now. Fuecoco, signing out.

 

I would reject that one. It would be very easy indeed to make it third person, and every IRL field guide I have is written third person:

 

From information gathered, this seems to be the Xenowyrm of light. They definitely are lively. They always are getting up to something, and with the amount they get tangled up with the other worms, they definitely bring life to the name "Noodle Soup". At first, they were named "Razing Cane's", thinking that the desert-like color scheme was more desolation than the bright light of it. It might change in the future, but it will stay put for now.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Fuzzbucket