Acceptance vs. Rejection messages for completed Dragon Requests

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

Acceptance vs. Rejection messages for completed Dragon Requests.

 

I know there is currently a system when first pitching a concept for a Dragon Request. If rejected, the OP will have to rework the idea and pitch it again. If accepted, it goes live in Dragon Requests and users/artists can work on it together.

 

Then, when the concept is all polished — sprites completed, information written, etc. — in-cave artists are pinged to either give it further crits, or give it the go-ahead to be deemed "completed". This process can take months, even years of dedicated time and effort. But then what?

 

Completed dragon concepts are taken out of the public eye, fully ready to be released, with everyone who worked on it hoping that it will be in-cave some day. But the completed concepts do not always get released. Some of them, for some reason or another, are just never released, and maybe never will be. If this is the case, I think it would be appropriate to notify the people involved that their idea will not see the light of day.

 

~~~

 

So I would like to pitch the idea: Please can the OP + artists of each concept be given a letter of acceptance or rejection upon completion of their project? A simple message of:

Acceptance: "This Dragon Request meets the guidelines of Dragon Cave and is currently in a queue to be released at some point in the future."

Rejection: "Unfortunately, this Dragon Request does not meet the guidelines for Dragon Cave and will not be released."

 

I know it might seem like asking a lot, but the creators, authors, and artists of Dragon Requests work so hard putting hours of love into each concept, only to be left waiting and hoping for years, never knowing what's going to happen to their pieces. That's several years of work for multiple people put into a creation, just for them to simply never know. If they are rejected, at least they will know, and they can either take their idea elsewhere, or perhaps rework it with some changes.

 

I don't even ask for specific feedback of why the concept doesn't meet the guidelines, since I've heard that TJ has said in the past that he finds it difficult to voice what makes a concept a 'yes' or a 'no'. So I'm not even asking for reasons, just please for some sort of indication that it has been considered. I would imagine that TJ reviews every concept that makes it to the completed list, and then either thinks "yes, this one" or "not this one". When he does this, please could he let the creators involved know? Please?

 

Quality of life improvement, and mod & user transparency.

Edited February 19 by RealWilliamShakespeare

[Murkydepths]

I guess ultimately only TJ09 would know whether or not this would be feasible, depending on how dragon requests are added and such, but I understand the sentiment and think it would be nice to the artists. 

 

 

I miss the completed list a lot...

[Sextonator]

I feel this would be something highly unlikely to happen, as Tj has stated in the past that he finds it difficult to describe what exactly qualifies or disqualifies a dragon for the site, but I think if he’s willing, a stock message that just states that a dragon wasn’t selected would be nice?

 

I think one issue that could come from this, though, as there’s no solid guidelines to what is acceptable to the site, that the dragon could be resubmitted without the right changes to qualify it, and then get rejected again, and creating a vicious cycle of resubmissions with minimal changes that keep getting rejected.

[Fuzzbucket]

I do think it seems sensible for artists to be told if their work is NOT going to be used - they are at least then free to use it elsewhere.

[Jazeki]

I support this. I also have several completed requests that I did not save information for. It's been many years now and I assume they aren't being released for one reason or another. Still, it would be nice to receive a stock response of some sort (with access to the thread) so that I can at least save the info for something else--whether it's for reworking for DC or not.

 

I suppose it is possible to PM mods to ask if they can access them, but a definite no on concepts that TJ is sure he won't use would be helpful--whether a user has saved info on their concept or not. It's certainly better than wondering if threads have just been deleted or hoping "maybe next release."

[Moonlight_Eevee]

I support. I have something in the CL rn and wondering if it's ever going to get used

[Pixxelation]

For what it's worth, this generally isn't any different for artist section concepts. There's always possibility something might be used, though if it's been a few years I'd suggest reaching out to the artists involved and considering taking a new pass at it.

[Fuzzbucket]

Even so - if won't be used, don't you want to know  for sure ?

[Jazeki]

25 minutes ago, Pixxelation said:

For what it's worth, this generally isn't any different for artist section concepts. There's always possibility something might be used, though if it's been a few years I'd suggest reaching out to the artists involved and considering taking a new pass at it.

In some cases, this is feasible (I've had artists do it with me), but there are instances where a user might not remember who they worked with or what they had down for descriptions/art/whatever. If they don't remember details and they can't access the thread after it gets moved from the DR section, this doesn't help much on either end. 

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I agree, even just a stock message would be really nice, and a link to the concept if it's a hard no would be very much appreciated  Of course, being able to receive reasons of why would be very helpful so we could take another shot at it, but I really understand if that wouldn't be doable since I've heard TJ is very busy.

 

1 hour ago, Pixxelation said:

For what it's worth, this generally isn't any different for artist section concepts. There's always possibility something might be used, though if it's been a few years I'd suggest reaching out to the artists involved and considering taking a new pass at it.

 

When you say "new pass at it", do you mean like reworking the sprites again and essentially resubmitting? I didn't know you could do that if the concept has already been accepted into the CL...

[Sextonator]

7 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

I agree, even just a stock message would be really nice, and a link to the concept if it's a hard no would be very much appreciated  Of course, being able to receive reasons of why would be very helpful so we could take another shot at it, but I really understand if that wouldn't be doable since I've heard TJ is very busy.

 

 

When you say "new pass at it", do you mean like reworking the sprites again and essentially resubmitting? I didn't know you could do that if the concept has already been accepted into the CL...

 

I don't see why we can't. Stepping back from a piece can really let you see any errors or problems with it that you couldn't see before. A non-artist taking another look at their concept after it's been completed and ending up unhappy should be able to have the artist rework or otherwise improve the sprite. Or, if the artist has dropped off the face of the Earth and can't give permission, being able to find a new artist should be ok.

[Nerei]

I would like this! Especially for concepts that have been completed for several years now, it would be nice to get some kind of update about if TJ himself still considers it acceptable. 

[milo]

Complete support. I don't necessarily need to know why, but if my DR gets rejected I would really appreciate knowing. I recognize that it might be a lot of effort/maybe impossible to articulate why something gets rejected, but a simple "Your DR submission was not accepted" seems like a common courtesy.  Right now, I feel like my submission is in the void... I'd like to get some closure either way about what happens to it, if it ever gets looked at, etc. 

[Sundew]

Agreeing that I would like to know if a completed concept won't currently make it into the cave, and would be okay with not receiving further info about it in a stock rejection message. I understand there are a lot of subjective reasons to decline, and wouldn't expect to receive details in a rejection notification, but it's good courtesy to let conceptors/artists know if there are no plans to release a completed concept -- to get a better idea of what they might try or avoid in future submissions, to be able to reclaim and reuse the concepts/art that they made, or just to know for sure rather than waiting in limbo.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Sundew

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I definitely agree with the last few points made!

[animatedrose]

Agreed with this. Many DRs sit in there for years and with the art standards changing, what was accepted then might no longer be acceptable with today's standards. It'd be nice to let conceptors/artists know if their stuff no longer works, even if it's just a simple "Your DR submission was not accepted". And since the Completed List is now hidden, nobody but TJ will ever know what is or isn't acceptable now out of those that were in there before it got hidden. Some closure for those that simply won't make the cut now despite being accepted would be nice.

[Tini]

I don't have any but I do sit and wonder about all the 'complete' that will not be released for whatever reason, support for letting people know. 

 

I don't think TJ would have to give specific reasons for no? It could be like, 3 different things. 'no longer to standard' 'concept not valid for DC' 'art issues, ask in cavers for crit' 

I think the difference between first and last would be like, size/shading/atonotmy issues vs most of that is fine but its still just off for reasons TJ can't pinpoint. If the concept itself is just not going to work, I think a reason why would  be good (too much animal vs too silly vs ???)

Edited December 9, 2020 by Tinibree

[Bloommist]

I support this, i think it would be really nice to let people know ow if possible. People put so much time and effort as well as love in to the concepts and the art thats created in the DR in the hope of it possibley entering the cave one day.
It takes a long time to get a concept completed and out of the DR sometimes even years, often many contributions, discussions and time are tide up in to each concept, friendships are even formed,
during the creation of some dragons, so when one is considerd good enough that a moderator compleats the concept, it really is a joyous day full of pride and accomplishment, each concept means a lot to the people involved.
Oversaly people are busy and I carnt imagine how busy TJ must be and there may be know way to inform everyone who has a completed concept already saved somewhere (not shore what happens after if im completely honest)  as people leave or go inactive but it would be nice if people could find out so there minds are put to rest so they have an answer of some sort sl not not just left hoping and looking at every release thinking is today the day, a lot of people put there heart and souls in to the ideas and the art work its all done because this wonderful community love the site so much and try help expand the fantastic breeds we already have. So yeah I agree would be nice if possible for people to know

Just my penny's worth i hope I've not been rude in anyway it may be a lot to ask but would be a nice curticy for people if possible

Edited January 26, 2021 by Bloommist
Spelling

[Mewtie]

I'd like to mention that getting notified when something is not considered suitable for the site might not actually make much of a difference. If something isn't selected for release, it doesn't have to mean that it isn't considered suitable. That also means that not receiving a notification that something isn't considered suitable doesn't guarantee that it will be released one day. It's reasonable to expect that the release of a concept might never happen, whether it is considered suitable or not. But when it is for sure that a concept is unsuitable, then sure, a notification would be good.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I agree, it would definitely be handy to know whether for sure it's unsuitable and why

[Bloommist]

On 12/10/2020 at 9:51 PM, Mewtie said:

It's reasonable to expect that the release of a concept might never happen, whether it is considered suitable or not.

I agree i think everyone who has a concept is prepared it may never enter the cave, and everyone should be reasonable and understand that we are lucky that DC allows us a chance to have our ideas implemented in to the cave.

On 12/10/2020 at 9:51 PM, Mewtie said:

But when it is for sure that a concept is unsuitable, then sure, a notification would be good.

But I second this would be nice just to end some of the wondering if its definitely not going to happen.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

Reviving this thread because it's been getting to me lately. It's now been almost 4 whole years since I posted this thread and the same concepts I was mentioning back then, have still received no update 🥲

(I've actually just calculated and I'm pretty sure it's been between 8 or 9 years since one of my concepts was first "completed" 🥲At this point, it's probably not suitable for the cave given the new art guidelines)

 

Just some sort of indication of if our concepts are unsuitable in some way. I really would love to see my concepts again, in-cave or not.

Edited February 18 by RealWilliamShakespeare

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I have another thread in a similar vein, but I think this idea would be much more efficient.

 

Acceptance vs. Rejection messages for completed Dragon Requests.

 

I know there is currently a system when first pitching a concept for a Dragon Request. If rejected, the OP will have to rework the idea and pitch it again. If accepted, it goes live in Dragon Requests and users/artists can work on it together.

 

Then, when the concept is all polished — sprites completed, information written, etc. — in-cave artists are pinged to either give it further crits, or give it the go-ahead to be deemed "completed". This process can take months, even years of dedicated time and effort. But then what?

 

Completed dragon concepts are taken out of the public eye, fully ready to be released, with everyone who worked on it hoping that it will be in-cave some day. But the completed concepts do not always get released. Some of them, for some reason or another, are just never released, and maybe never will be. If this is the case, I think it would be appropriate to notify the people involved that their idea will not see the light of day.

 

~~~

 

So I would like to pitch the idea: Please can the OP + artists of each concept be given a letter of acceptance or rejection upon completion of their project? A simple message of:

Acceptance: "This Dragon Request meets the guidelines of Dragon Cave and is currently in a queue to be released at some point in the future."

Rejection: "Unfortunately, this Dragon Request does not meet the guidelines for Dragon Cave and will not be released."

 

I know it might seem like asking a lot, but the creators, authors, and artists of Dragon Requests work so hard putting hours of love into each concept, only to be left waiting and hoping for years, never knowing what's going to happen to their pieces. That's several years of work for multiple people put into a creation, just for them to simply never know. If they are rejected, at least they will know, and they can either take their idea elsewhere, or perhaps rework it with some changes.

 

I don't even ask for specific feedback of why the concept doesn't meet the guidelines, since I've heard that TJ has said in the past that he finds it difficult to voice what makes a concept a 'yes' or a 'no'. So I'm not even asking for reasons, just please for some sort of indication that it has been considered. I would imagine that TJ reviews every concept that makes it to the completed list, and then either thinks "yes, this one" or "not this one". When he does this, please could he let the creators involved know? Please?

 

Quality of life improvement, and mod & user transparency.

[KageSora]

I honestly think this would be very important.

 

And also I feel like there should eventually be some sort of time-out or point at which it needs to be re-assessed to avoid being in limbo indefinitely.

 

It's only fair for people who have worked on a concept that isn't going to ever see the light of day be allowed to post it elsewhere or use it for other purposes.

[Kaini]

I think a firm no would be great, if it applies, so the artist can take it back and improve it or know it's never going to happen.

But I don't think the firm 'yes' is going to ever be a thing. I think it's preferred if really no one but TJ knows when a dragon is coming out, otherwise it could too easily be leaked. Excited artists go tell their friends, it gets out, etc.

Edit: also merged because these are essentially the same suggestion.

Edited February 19 by Kaini