Protect freshly traded things from dying of Sickness (autoward)

[VixenDra]

So, before I went to sleep I offered on an egg I needed and have trouble getting enough of. Now I just woke up to a dead trade - the trader run off with my 2 critters and left a dead egg on my scroll, it's unfair and should never happen! 😕

In my case, this is the offender: https://dragcave.net/lineage/DgT7c it's so hard to get the correct biome to me and I offered 2g Aeon and Copper for this, apparently, deadshell:/

 

Do something to prevent this from happening. Idk, make freshly traded things Autowarded(even if that uses up a random Ward from the recipient's Whites and only if there's a off-cooldown White available) and/or impossible to Sickness-die until the trade recipient logins for the first time since the trad wents through or just something.

(Better yet, get rid of Sickness death completely - starve the trolls instead of keeping feeding them)

 

I wish I could block that user's trades so I never offer on their things again:/

Edited February 19, 2020 by VixenDra

[Fuzzbucket]

If you offer on an egg  with views at that level and then go to bed, that is a risk you take. Sad but true. It's a bit off to say the trader "ran off" with your critters - you offered them; they accepted. They did nothing wrong. You MAY always have been viewbombed.

[HeatherMarie]

5 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

If you offer on an egg  with views at that level and then go to bed, that is a risk you take. Sad but true. It's a bit off to say the trader "ran off" with your critters - you offered them; they accepted. They did nothing wrong. You MAY always have been viewbombed.

 

Agree with this. 

 

Also, while I *very* much support an overhaul to how sickness works, I don't support *just* auto-warding traded things. Why should traded dragons get special treatment above all the other dragons that get sick/viewbombed? Why shouldn't the 'protection' extend to *any* freshly-gotten egg? Or just protect any and all eggs for the first 24 hours, when they are most vulnerable? My point is, I feel like this suggestion is prioritizing a certain subset of eggs above others when what *should* happen is sickness in general is changed so *all* eggs/hatchlings are better off.

[UnicornMaiden]

Did the egg have such a high viewcount when you offered on it, or was it bombed after it was traded?

[Stormcaller]

I find that it's not unusual for an egg that has been plucked from the AP to be already added to one or more fansites.  Sometimes I have to race to get a Ward on it and then go from one fansite to another to uncheck them.  Only then is it safe to fog them for a time.  I suspect that this is what happened to VixenDra's egg.  It might not have been the seller's fault but that of the fansite for not releasing the egg when it changed scrolls.

[DragonLady86]

15 hours ago, Stormcaller said:

I find that it's not unusual for an egg that has been plucked from the AP to be already added to one or more fansites.  Sometimes I have to race to get a Ward on it and then go from one fansite to another to uncheck them.  Only then is it safe to fog them for a time.  I suspect that this is what happened to VixenDra's egg.  It might not have been the seller's fault but that of the fansite for not releasing the egg when it changed scrolls.

A lot of fansite do not do so. The code is in the system till the egg hatches/grows up or is removed. Some dont even kick them when fogged for hours.

 

In no way do I see this as being the traders fault. They traded in good faith and the egg, sadly recived too many views and died after being  traded. Also remember they have to get a live view to hatch.

 

I've never really understood the point of sickness, the only thing it does is cause frustration. What does it actually benefit to keep it around at all. And before anyone says that it's so a player can't just throw things into hatcheries and forget them, just come back to adults: that's literally how I play.

[GhostMouse]

3 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

I've never really understood the point of sickness, the only thing it does is cause frustration. What does it actually benefit to keep it around at all. And before anyone says that it's so a player can't just throw things into hatcheries and forget them, just come back to adults: that's literally how I play.

 

Same. I'm not specifically opposed to protecting things in trades, but I'd much rather see sickness (or at the very least, death-by-sickness) done away with entirely.

[UnicornMaiden]

Since the thread is about an auto-warding suggestion let's not turn it into another "get rid of sickness" discussion. Those always get shot down.

 

Based on the original post it doesn't sound like the original trader is at fault at all. If the egg was viewbombed after the trade then it could be that someone who was declined didn't take it well.

 

For the most part I'm not in favor of automatically using a BSA. That's something that should be done deliberately by a user. What does sound reasonable is the suggestion that an egg has some protection until the recipient has an opportunity to protect it.

 

Right now there are two parts of a trade. The egg belongs to the sender, and then it belongs to the recipient. It might not be a bad idea if there were a middle part in between when the sender accepts the trade and the recipient views the egg's page. If the trade wasn't considered finalized until the recipient viewed the egg then even if it was sick it couldn't die until the new owner was aware of it.

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, UnicornMaiden said:

For the most part I'm not in favor of automatically using a BSA. That's something that should be done deliberately by a user. What does sound reasonable is the suggestion that an egg has some protection until the recipient has an opportunity to protect it.

 

Right now there are two parts of a trade. The egg belongs to the sender, and then it belongs to the recipient. It might not be a bad idea if there were a middle part in between when the sender accepts the trade and the recipient views the egg's page. If the trade wasn't considered finalized until the recipient viewed the egg then even if it was sick it couldn't die until the new owner was aware of it.

 

This sounds like a good idea, but like most 'protection' suggestions it could be abused. The suggestion to protect eggs while in a teleport (in a different thread) was met with plenty of posts regarding people abusing it and simply putting all their eggs in a teleport until they were ready to hatch. Here, I can see the recipient simply not viewing the page, and therefore the egg would just be protected indefinitely even though the recipient may be active in the game in other ways. That's why I prefer time-limited suggestions, like 'first 24 hours' or even 'can't die until it's been sick for a certain number of hours', etc. 

[UnicornMaiden]

17 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

This sounds like a good idea, but like most 'protection' suggestions it could be abused. The suggestion to protect eggs while in a teleport (in a different thread) was met with plenty of posts regarding people abusing it and simply putting all their eggs in a teleport until they were ready to hatch. Here, I can see the recipient simply not viewing the page, and therefore the egg would just be protected indefinitely even though the recipient may be active in the game in other ways. That's why I prefer time-limited suggestions, like 'first 24 hours' or even 'can't die until it's been sick for a certain number of hours', etc. 

 

True. I wasn't thinking about the abuse loophole. Maybe instead of being finalized when the recipient views the egg the trade could be finalized fifteen minutes after the person visits the site, regardless of which pages they view, or something like that. That would give someone a quarter of an hour to see that the trade has been accepted, check the egg's health, and ward/fog it.

[Fuzzbucket]

That wouldn't have helped the OP, who posted an offer and went to bed. Which is a major risk, but.....

[UnicornMaiden]

Yes, it would have. Even if the egg was viewbombed and about to die they would have had fifteen minutes to ward it after they logged on instead of waking up to a dead egg.

[Fuzzbucket]

She posted an offer, and then went to bed. When she woke up the egg she had traded for was already dead.

 

We don't know how long it took for the offer to be accepted - but when was the last time you got an instant accept ? I don't think we could expect eggs to get no views until the recipient logged in - and with that level of views, I don't think it could have been saved. It would just have died 6 hours later.

 

That was one HELL of a lot of views in two days.

 

[UnicornMaiden]

What I'm saying is that what if it was impossible for the egg to die of sickness in between the time the sender accepts the trade and the time the recipient logs on to see that it was accepted? How long it takes for the offer to be accepted has nothing to do with it.

[DragonLady86]

And what fuzz is saying, is that it would not matter if it couldn't die in that time period. With that many views even ward couldn't have saved it. It would have still been too late. 

[Fuzzbucket]

Thank you, DragonLady. My point precisely. I think it's a heads up for people making offers - be there to keep an eye, or accept the risk. The trader did nothing wrong - they legitimately accepted an offer. IF the OP had been there she might have been able to ward in time - and also hide the egg. But if it already had that many views, she couldn't have saved it anyway, and it was probably unwise to offer on it..

[Stormcaller]

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

IF the OP had been there she might have been able to ward in time

 

If the OP had been there, she might not have had to ward at all, but this shows a serious flaw in the trading process.  Since this game has a large international base of players, which means round the clock trading,  it's unrealistic to expect that anyone can be an active participant without being exposed to this risk.

 

I don't think it would be out of line to ask for some kind of protection for the traders.

[darkladyselenity]

I do think it would be nice to ward dragons that are in trade, without cancelling the trade. (I had a situation like this earlier this week and posted in the Help Forum about it.)

 

Maybe overhaul the current Ward BSA so it lasts a little longer, eight hours perhaps?

Edited February 29, 2020 by darkladyselenity

[Fuzzbucket]

9 hours ago, darkladyselenity said:

I do think it would be nice to ward dragons that are in trade, without cancelling the trade. (I had a situation like this earlier this week and posted in the Help Forum about it.)

 

Maybe overhaul the current Ward BSA so it lasts a little longer, eight hours perhaps?

 

Not the 8 hours particularly but yes, I would love to be able to ward things in a teleport without cancelling it. I may have offered, know the other player is in a different time zone and want them to be able to accept after I go to bed.

[Stormcaller]

IMHO, the eggs should be protected as part of the normal functioning of the trade process through the Hub.  I think that if an egg leaves someone's scroll on it's way to someone else's scroll, it should arrive there safely and remain safe until it is clicked on by the new owner or for a given amount of time if it is not immediately attended to. That time period should be adequate for someone to get a night's sleep, or put in a day's work, but not both since it's necessary to keep the pace of making trades that move along nicely. This is for everyone's protection and convenience.

 

It would be ideal if everyone took their eggs out of the fan sites prior to offering them for trade, but let's face it, that's not at all practical. Neither is it realistic to depend on a seller having to remember to ward the egg for the buyer's protection.  Therefore, protection of the egg should be provided as part of the transfer process itself either by preventing it from gaining views once it is offered or directly after the trade is completed.

[HeatherMarie]

I still don't think the answer is to just automatically protect eggs in trades, after the trade, etc. Again, why are traded eggs so much more important to protect? Why not freshly-grabbed 7-day eggs, which are the most vulnerable? Why not Zyus, who notoriously get sick while hatching quite often (or, they used to, haven't raised any in awhile)? Why not holidays, since plenty of them get sick and even die from hatchery overviewing? 

 

The solution here is to *change sickness*, or at the very least change how Ward works. Deliberately implementing something that protects one subset of eggs and no others is just saying that Trading is more important than any other part of the game. And yes, I do agree that eggs getting sick while in Teleport and not being able to hide/Ward them is a very frustrating thing and really shouldn't happen, I just think there are better ways to deal with it.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm with Heather. And what about experiments ? How would this affect them ?

[VixenDra]

On 2/22/2020 at 2:40 PM, Stormcaller said:

 

If the OP had been there, she might not have had to ward at all, but this shows a serious flaw in the trading process.  Since this game has a large international base of players, which means round the clock trading,  it's unrealistic to expect that anyone can be an active participant without being exposed to this risk.

 

I don't think it would be out of line to ask for some kind of protection for the traders.

- Stormcaller understands things so far, not only in the quoted comment.

Yes, if I could be there, that Kyanite would be an adult right now, awaiting its destiny in peace. But it wasn't given a chance to get there by the combo of the mechanic in question(and the trader's actions) AND site rules. I could take NO action. (And "simply" not offering on a trade is NOT a sollution - that would mean sweeping the problem under the rug instead, and is therefore out of question.)

My offer was accepted rather soon after I HAD to go to sleep. Before my healthy night sleep ended, the egg gained so much overview it died before I could possibly get the sickness popup. All the multiple hatcheries the former owner put it into just obviously kept it in for all the hours after it chaned owners:/ 

I could do NOTHING reasonable&realistic to prevent this.

Honestly, the only way I could technically prevent sth like this, would be to Manage the egg (=remove from the many hatcheries it WAS in the moment I offered) when it was still the trader's(=before I went to sleep unable to wait any longer)😕 which is a nope... so what am I actually supposed to do in such situations, don't sleep?!

 

In DC, it's game more important than life, which is worse than unhealthy and unreasonable. And that's the problem I wanted to at least partially address, at last. You can't expect players to have no life at all, while a situation like mine couldn't have been avoided in any other way than by me either not going to sleep(often that would mean at all) or violating the rule of "Doesn't accept aid from others":/

I don't refer to hiatuses and such, sure, even I put the line there, but come on, a mere night sleep or worktime being too much?! Even TJ himself isn't here for the releases often enugh, yet we are expected to not have a life at all or we'll loose the pixels like I did? what the heck...

 

And I never asked for infinite protection, but just until the account is anyhow refreshed when logged in +some extra time for reaction (like, I often have the game not-logged-out though the night, wake up, turn my PC on, go and do other offline things within a morning routine, while in the meantime the browser restarts itself and reopens the tabs I left there for the PC's switch-off/sleep. When I get back, I refresh the tabs I'm interested in checking, one by one. The timer should go as soon as the site registers any activity on my account, including a refresh. Give it extra 30-60mins of ultimate sickness-death protection since the site detects a refresh-after-trade-completion, so the user CAN possibly react at all, and that's it. (or, again, get rid of sickness death completely)

 

There is surely a way to compromise and stop the "don't wanna loose stuff like this? have no life!" nonsense we have now... If you insist it's not like this, then tell me what am I supposed to do next time I trade in an analogical situation, and while abiding to all the rules. Good luck!

 

 

HeatherMarie

Quote

Again, why are traded eggs so much more important to protect? Why not freshly-grabbed 7-day eggs, which are the most vulnerable? Why not Zyus, who notoriously get sick while hatching quite often (or, they used to, haven't raised any in awhile)? Why not holidays, since plenty of them get sick and even die from hatchery overviewing? 

 

Answer is simple and obvious:

All the situations you refer to are things you as a player CAN take care of both technically and while abiding to the rules (fresh 7d eggs - don't add to hatchery yet/fog. Zyus - don't incubate, add them closer to 5d left and steadily enough and they may not get even sick at all, Holidays - same as Zyus, simply do it with your head being in the game. Be in control - you have the tools to). The situation in question though, you can do NOTHING about either techincally or without violating the site rules, meanign you are NOT in control - you don't have the tools, or you have the tools but using them is forbidden, which gets down to: you have NO tools you are allowed to use. The "you CAN control&prevent" and "you CAN'T do anything about it" difference we have here, makes ALL the difference.

Edited March 1, 2020 by VixenDra

[Fuzzbucket]

40 minutes ago, VixenDra said:

- Stormcaller understands things so far, not only in the quoted comment.

Yes, if I could be there, that Kyanite would be an adult right now, awaiting its destiny in peace. But it wasn't given a chance to get there by the combo of the mechanic in question(and the trader's actions) AND site rules. I could take NO action. (And "simply" not offering on a trade is NOT a sollution - that would mean sweeping the problem under the rug instead, and is therefore out of question.)

My offer was accepted rather soon after I HAD to go to sleep. Before my healthy night sleep ended, the egg gained so much overview it died before I could possibly get the sickness popup. All the multiple hatcheries the former owner put it into just obviously kept it in for all the hours after it chaned owners:/ 

I could do NOTHING reasonable&realistic to prevent this.

 

 

You don't know the owner had put it into hatcheries. You cannot call them out for this; they did nothing wrong. It could have been viewbombed. I am sorry for your loss, and if I see one I will catch it for you - but the trader offered an egg which you accepted. They did nothing wrong. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[Fuzzbucket]

@VixenDra I have just caught you a replacement; I will post it here and ask for a dummy, OK ? And it isn't in ANYWHERE - it is hidden right now -  but I will ward it before I post the link. (NB I believe I am on VixenDra's ignore list - no problem, just that she might not see this - so perhaps someone could tell her ? - and point her to it when I get to post a link.)]

 

I do want to be sure it goes to her - but as I don't know her scroll name and I know she hides it...

Edited March 1, 2020 by Fuzzbucket