Indoor vs. Outdoor Cats

[MedievalMystic]

I don't fault people for letting their cats go out. What I fault them for is not having them spayed or neutered. My two, who are fixed, hardly ever leave my yard and I've trained them since they were kittens to come when I call them using food as a reward. Cats can have all of the things you mentioned, climbing trees, toys, etc, etc, etc, and still get bored. I don't know a whole lot of people that can afford to buy new cat toys every week. If a cat is vaccinated and spayed or neutered I don't have an issue with them being out, unless, like that devil I mentioned above, they become a nuisance animal.

 

This is really a tricky subject. I can see and understand both sides of the issue.

 

I am in agreement with Omega. Barn cats serve a purpose, a good one, and should be allowed to be out with no hassles, although again, they should be spayed/neutered.

[sparkle10184]

I am sick of picking up dead/dying cats off the street. Watching a cat get hit by a car is not how I want to start my morning and yet I have had to deal with it multiple times. I hate having to walk up to someone's door, knock, and then tell them I just witnessed their cat get smashed to death by a car.

I am sick of having to scare my neighbor's cats away whenever I see them stalking songbirds in my backyard. I love birds but I can't even put out a birdfeeder anymore because it would be a deathtrap.

 

Outdoor cats are a nuisance. They cause problems and destroy the ecosystem. If you can't keep your cats contained, don't get a cat. If you want to make an irresponsible choice and risk your cat's life, fine, but don't drag me into it.

 

Cats have been the cause of the extinction of 33 species. 33 species GONE. Cats hunt and kill. It's in their extinct and you can't change that. When you let your cat outside unsupervised, you are not only welcoming the potential death of your cat, but also the death of songbirds and wildlife.

 

edited for typo

Edited November 19, 2014 by sparkle10184

[kitsune93]

I really agree with sparkle.

A cat getting bored isn't a good excuse to expose them to life threatening situations or to allow them to kill innocent animals.

[Omega Entity]

But I'd still want to see most of them fixed.  With the way things are, there will easily be cats they can adopt to replace any that die or disappear.

I thought that went without saying, but being amongst what I assume to be logical, intelligent people, I assumed that was a given :-p But yes. Spay and neuter, folks, especially if you have outdoor or indoor/outdoor animals. And please don't breed! There's too many kitties in need of homes, and far too many are destroyed from people not being responsible with their animals!

 

Also, on declawing - With the others, don't do it! Not only is it a traumatic thing to do to your cat, but it can cause joint and arthritis issues since it quite literally alters the way they walk and carry themselves. It can also have serious ramifications, behaviorally - a perfectly sweet, nice animal can become mean and defensive. Not that I blame them, really - I'd be pissed too if someone cut off part of my toes!

Edited November 19, 2014 by Omega Entity

[MedievalMystic]

As to the cats causing extinction thing...well, WE have caused more extinctions than any cat. In fact, according to what I've heard, elephants are next and will supposedly be gone in 10 years at the rate we're poaching them. Maybe we need to stay in our houses.

 

Honestly, I can't remember the last time I saw a dead/dying cat in the street. Sure, I see a dead cat now and again on the road, but I see dogs, deer, geese, raccoon, opossum, turtles, fox, dead on the roads a whole lot more often than I see dead cats around my area. It's a fact of life, imo. And really, even if I do see a dead animal in the street, I'm not in the habit of picking it up. That's a first. The way you're describing it, dead cats are falling from the sky and litter the streets every day.

 

If you know where every single cat belongs because, as you say, you're walking up to doors all the time informing people of the sad news of their cat's demise and know where all the live ones belong as well, simpy ask the owners if they wouldn't mind putting a collar with a bell on them if you're concerned about birds or give them collars with bells as a gift. I have many bird feeders out and my cats have collars with bells. End of that issue.

 

I get, and support, both sides of the issue, which may seem weird, but it is what it is. lol

 

All of my cats are declawed. They're fine in spite of all the protests. They walk, climb, hunt, stalk, fight once in a blue moon like when the neighbor cat was showing up, etc, etc, and don't seem to have a single problem doing any of it. To each their own.

[sparkle10184]

It is has been proven through scientific studies that bells do almost nothing to decrease the rate of hunting.

 

No, cats aren't falling from the sky, but I live in a city with lots of people and lots of cats and lots of cars. Half the people around here don't give a crap about hitting an animal and I don't think I've gone a day out on the road without seeing some sort of roadkill whether it be possum, groundhog, or cat. People around here drive like there's no tomorrow. This past summer a teenage boy who lived in my neighborhood was killed because someone was texting and not paying attention to the road.

 

My opinion has nothing to do with humans poaching. That's a different issue for another time. But for the record, I am against poaching/illegal hunting and it pains me to here of species going extinct.

[MedievalMystic]

Nobody said collars with bells reduces hunting in cats. But it surely reduces catching.

 

Your second paragraph sounds like a people problem, not a cat problem.

 

My reference had nothing to do with poaching and it wasn't about poaching, just the end result. Extinction. Which WE cause. You can point a finger at cats, but the greatest threat to other animals is humanity, not the cat.

[kitsune93]

Just because some people poach animals to extinction doesn't mean it's ok to allow pets to hunt animals to extinction.

Neither of these things are ok and should be stopped.

 

[Esdren]

My cat is strictly domestic, he's been doing fine for the past 5 years of living with us and he has no desire to go outside whatsoever, he's too timid to leave the door anyways even if we leave it open. We live on the 20th floor of an apartment, the grounds of our district houses many outdoor cats though, they never cause any real problems and often goes unnoticed throughout the day.

Unless domestic cats starts causing problems for other people then they should be free to leave as they wish, but in my country that barely ever happens, if an animal leaves supervision then its good as gone.

[MedievalMystic]

It can't be stopped. It won't be stopped. As long as people refuse to spay/neuter their animals, as long as people continue to be irresponsible with their animals, the animals will hunt for food. Animals don't get the word 'extinction'. No stray, starving cat is going to think, 'Hmm, I best not kill this species of bird because it's on the endangered list'. That isn't the fault of cats. This is the fault of people.

[sparkle10184]

By hunting I was talking about hunting and killing prey.

 

Yes, it is a "people problem." So is letting cats outside. Of course you can't blame the cat, that's not what I am trying to do. Keeping cats inside is not punishment, it is to save their and other animal's lives.

[MedievalMystic]

It's kind of hard to kill prey if you can't catch it. I've seen my cats try and stalk the bird feeders in my yard countless times. As soon as they move and that bell jingles, those birds are hell and gone, long before my cats can even get near them. Plus, the squirrels, who also, alas, love the bird feeders, start screaming and screeching from the trees, warning the birds as well, the second the cats step out the door. My cats have NEVER brought home dead birds. Mice, moles, yes, but birds? Not with those collars.

 

Sparkle, people don't care enough to spay and neuter their animals and don't give a flip how much they over breed and how much the population of unwanted and feral cats continues to grow, resulting in hoards of starving animals, which kill endangered species and anything else they can get their paws on. As long as people don't give a crap, and a lot of them don't, the problem will simply continue. Even if there was a law, people who didn't care, and they are legion, wouldn't follow it anyway. Of that, I have no doubt. :/

Edited November 20, 2014 by MedievalMystic

[HawktalonOfRiverClan]

My cats have always been indoor/outdoor, and as long as I continue to live in a safe, quiet neighborhood I will never own a strictly indoor cat, unless it is the cat's own choice to stay inside. I know that there are cats that are happy being indoor-only, but if the reason for that is because they have never even experienced the outdoors to decide for themselves, then it's the wrong reason. Cats may be domesticated, but they're still natural predators, and toys can only go so far.

 

Now I can understand keeping them indoors for their own safety, like if you live on a busy street or in an area with a lot of wild predators like foxes. But I also don't think they should be strictly outdoor, either. Yes, the average house cat, if acclimated to being an outdoor cat, can survive. But is it a good life? I wouldn't think that outdoor cats would even form that close of a bond with their owners, though I've never had an outdoor cat so I may be wrong. Maybe it is possible. But it seems really impersonal. And I've always believed that pets are members of the family, and should be treated as such. But restricting them to the house is playing it too safe.

 

But any cat that goes outside should be fixed. That just goes without saying. As for bell collars, I personally don't have a problem with my cats hunting, as long as they eat what they catch and don't play with it before doing so, but it certaintly isn't necessary for an indoor/outdoor cat to actually catch their own food. One of my cats who is a very capable hunter wore a bell collar for a while. Not that it hindered him any. When he came home one day without it, it was decided to just not bother with getting a new one.

[sparkle10184]

Sparkle, people don't care enough to spay and neuter their animals and don't give a flip how much they over breed and how much the population of unwanted and feral cats continues to grow, resulting in hoards of starving animals, which kill endangered species and anything else they can get their paws on. As long as people don't give a crap, and a lot of them don't, the problem will simply continue. Even if there was a law, people who didn't care, and they are legion, wouldn't follow it anyway. Of that, I have no doubt. :/

I'm not quite sure what this is in response to, as I never even mentioned spaying or neutering..?

 

I have seen my neighbor's cat kill a bird even with his bell collar on. By the time the bird hears that bell (most cats, at least this one, are good at stalking silently) the cat is leaping through the air and the bird has barely any time to move. Bye bye, birdy.

 

I have seen foxes chasing my neighbor's cat so many times that I don't even care anymore. I used to bang on the window or shout to scare the fox away, but the last time it happened I did nothing. That cat is a nuisance and I'm sick of it.

[MedievalMystic]

I just meant that people don't care to fix their animals to prevent over breeding, therefore they aren't going to give a crap how many endangered species or birds, or whatever, the cats are out there killing. Unless every single cat in existence is put inside, birds will die.

 

I do understand how you feel. Nobody wants to be bothered by other people's animals in their yard, especially if those animals are limiting their enjoyment, in your case, watching beautiful birds, on their own property. Have you tried to talk with your neighbor? Maybe they could keep the cat in during the day when the birds are around and let it out at night when they're roosting.

 

It's a tough issue with no easy answers, unfortunately.

Edited November 20, 2014 by MedievalMystic

[Switch]

Dogs should not be allowed outside unsupervised. I see a dog wandering the streets? I call animal control. No questions asked. Dogs should not be allowed to roam and neither should cats.

If the cat's indoor environment is properly enriching it will not get bored. People say "Oh well my cat gets bored inside so I let her out," but that simply means that you are not offering them enough activities indoors. Cat trees, perches, climbing structures, etc. are great and will keep a cat from getting bored. If your toddler is bored inside because they don't have enough toys or activities or you don't have time to play with them, do you let them go play outside unsupervised? "Oh, honey, you're bored? Okay, go play in the street!"

It's generally (in most places) considered unacceptable to let a domesticated horse, rabbit, or guinea pig outside alone, so why is it okay for a cat to do that?

 

Cats have caused devastating environmental problems such as the extinction of 33 species. They get into other people's lawns, poop in gardens, terrorize dogs, and spread bacteria and diseases. It is completely irresponsible, imo, to allow a domesticated animal outside to go wherever it wants.

thank.

 

re: "cats hunting is fine if they don't do it for sport,"

domesticated cats hunt for fun more than they do for hunger.

besides that, prey can be contaminated with poison or parasites which could pass onto your cat. not to mention your cat could get bit and potentially be at risk for a variety of health problems, not to mention the dozens of other dangers there are to cats left outdoors unsupervised (no your cat is not always going to be able to avoid those passing cars) and not to mention the ecosystem damage they cause.

 

so even if you live in the safest place in the world (and believe me that's what a lot of people say before their cat dies horribly) and even if you don't care about the potential damage to the ecosystem your furball is causing, (no your cat is not a noble hunter who only kills when they need to) letting them hunt outdoors is still not a good idea unless for some reason you like to play risk with your pet's well-being. i mean have you seen the difference in average lifespan of outdoor vs indoor cats

 

edit: plus y'know there are ways to let your cat enjoy outdoor time without leaving them unsupervised and at risk of everything we've already listed multiple times. harnesses, outdoor cat enclosures, cat-proof fences i think, etc.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Switch

[DustyBelle]

We had dogs as a small child. At 10 my dad's boss was going overseas for a couple of years and couldn't take his pair of cats, so he gave them to my dad. Dad hated cats. We took the cats with us up to the family home in the Maryland mountains during the summer and one of the two scratched the heck out of us as we were releasing it inside and scooted outside and was gone. We were heartbroken, and kept the other one inside. A month later we saw the missing cat it had found a home at a neighboring farm and seemed happy. Our cat was indoor/outdoor. This was 50 years ago and life was a bit slower.

 

Most of the cats I have adopted have been inside only cats or walked on leashes unless we lived in the country.

 

I don't favor declawing cats. I also don't favor forcing cats to stay inside if you get them as older cats and they are used to being outside and want to be outside and basically just like the sun, grass and nearby trees and come inside each night. But if I bring a cat home from the pound, it is an indoor only cat and is neutered. The cats don't seem to mind if they never go out and they have lots of play time and room to run and a safe place to hide.

 

My daughter has one cat at the moment. My last one had been my husband's until his death. She adopted me and then died last year three years after his death. I just don't want to replace her. Finding apartments these days with a couple of pets is expensive and difficult. Vet bills are outrageously high. I hate it when they die. I fall apart.

[celesteon]

My first cat is indoor, as will all cats I have in the future. All cat-lovers I know keep their beloved kitties safely indoors. Those that have cats but let them roam free have dead cats from poisoning by angry neighbors "protecting" wildlife, being hit by cars, or mauled by dogs that don't like cats - even if the owners like cats. My fiance's mother's dogs kill cats that land in their yard, either while she's at work or can't hear it, because she likes cats and would stop them if she could.

 

I think laws to keep cats indoors or in cat enclosures are fantastic. I pulled a dragon (the lizard variety lol) out of my year old kitten's mouth today after I let her outside with me to eat grass while I was chatting with guests and she caught the poor thing. It was alright, but I've seen it sun itself under the same pot plant every day for months, and it's like a wild pet to me, plus there is no way I want her killing cute lizards. Or any native animal, for that matter! Roaming cats are a menace to native wildlife, easy prey for stray or aggressive dogs (lots of those where I live - for pig hunting and guarding against drunks and thieves), easy victims of intentional poisoning, rabbit traps, and possum traps, roadkill magnets (I know so many tragic stories from friends), and a danger to other roaming cats with their razor claws. Plus they breed like rabbits! I live in Australia where there are no native mainland predators other than dingos and quolls (rat-sized short-lived marsupial tree-dwelling hunters), so feral dogs, cats, foxes, and ungulates, plus rabbits have nothing to stop them and pretty much destroy all the native marsupials. Big animals trample borrows and vegetation and predators predate. In America, there are coyotes, mt lions, black bears, grizzlies, wolves, etc, so cats aren't a problem, they're a victim.

 

I think you shouldn't get an exotic animal/non-native animal and then let it roam free in a country where they are not a part of the ecosystem. Especially when you are putting that animal's life and wellbeing at risk. That's irresponsible. Animals don't give a crap about road rules and real grass, they just like food and nice weather/temperatures and playing and stuff. As long as they get that, they don't need to go outside. Cat towers and toys are as fun as the outdoors, especially if you use interactive toys. Which you should. Why get a pet only to never do stuff with it?

[Starscream]

There is a historical reason for cats being allowed to roam.

It goes back to one of the great plagues, I am not sure if it was the 1300's one or the 1600's one. But it was when they realised that rats were the carries of bubonic plague, and the fleas that feasted on them. Cats killed rats and it was deemed cats could roam free for that service.

 

In this day and age

Indoor cat vs outdoor cat. I think it depends where you are. Do we have problems with bubonic plague now? No. We have medications that can treat any infections that occur and they do occur. Keeping them indoors do protect them from mishaps, encounters with cars, dogs, wild predators. Keeping them indoors keeps mice at bay - if you are in a city.

 

IN the country this can be a different situation. I knew many farmers who had a small population of barn cats who would control mice, rats and other small creatures that may disturb the running of a farm. One farmer we knew would allow us to adopt his barncats periodically and they were amazing cats for mousing.

 

Keeping cats inside hwen they were used to the outside is cruel. My mum's last cat was 17 years old when she died, she was an out doors cat. She learned. SHe understood the road quite well and would stop and look before crossing. for the most part she would find a warm spot in the garden and lay there blending in. She hunted and kep the mice away as our home at the time was 160 years old. we had mice issues when we moved in. but soon after Maverick moved in, mice had packed and left.

[Infinis]

If cats can't go out - nor should dogs.

I completely agree.

 

Dogs should never be allowed to roam around. Ever. People who let their dogs roam are profoundly irresponsible at best. Dogs can be extremely dangerous and terrifying regardless of size. And, of course, a properly contained dog can't attack the things outside its containment, which would decrease dog attack instances.

 

So, yes please - no roaming dogs!

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

RE: declawing:

 

in my opinion, is one of the cruelest and most hateful things you can do to an animal. Don't declaw. There are measures you can take to reduce and stop behaviours like furniture clawing, like scratching posts.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Yes, humans have caused extinctions, and we should most definitely try to stop that. But if anything that's even more justification for keeping your cat inside since cats are also causing extinctions.

 

The cat won't be bored inside if you provide a proper environment for it. Boredom, including destructive boredom, is 100% preventable. Cats get bored just like people if they only have the same toys over and over again. Get your cat a friend, get a bunch of cat toys and introduce new toys every so often (or trade out toys every so often!), get them cat trees and perches. But don't risk their lives and your losses by letting them wander.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I personally don't have a problem with my cats hunting, as long as they eat what they catch and don't play with it before doing so, but it certaintly isn't necessary for an indoor/outdoor cat to actually catch their own food.

 

Cats will probably always play with their food. o3o

 

But isn't that part of the problem here, that indoor/outdoor cats don't have to hunt for food? That they kill because they can - because they're still predators - not because they need it? This quote (article linked for source) is pretty telling:

 

Kitty Cam Reveal

It turns out that house cats, like their burger-stuffed owners, aren’t really concerned about wasting food. They only ate what they killed 30% of the time; 49% of the time they just left their prey to rot where it died and the rest of the time they brought it home.

And to my knowledge, most of those presents their animals bring home aren't getting eaten.

 

Here are some other articles about the effects of cat killing:

NY Times article

NPR article

this isn't really a scientific article, but it's pretty interesting and provides some alternatives to reduce hunting

Edited November 21, 2014 by Infinis

[SecondStarToTheRight]

 

My cats are primarily indoor yet enjoy being outside, just not quite free range. I built a rather large outdoor enclosure (not cage) and they have a party out there, can feel the wind, rain, sun, even the snow.

 

They go in and out through a small door attached to a window on the house. One brings in large insects and hunts an hour or two a day. One doesn't care much for the outdoors but will sun herself in the afternoons watching birds at the feeders making those cute cackling noises some cats do when they see birds.

 

I just feel more at ease that they're in a secure environment but can enjoy the outside air and grass from an enclosed patio attached to the house. They seem to love it, and still enjoy being inside most the time. It's a large structure, though, so they do have plenty of room. It's high as well, so they can climb and jump to different spots but still stay secure within the enclosure. It just seems to be the best of both worlds. Makes me feel better, and seems to make them happy.

[LupaWulf]

Some states do have leash laws for cats.

Technically the law up here doesn't specify cats or dogs- but all domestic animals must be leashed when off private property. It's fair. For goodness sake, I have a harness trained rabbit that I walk on a leash during the good weather so he can get out and enjoy the sun and grass. Cat people can do it too.

 

Do they really reinforce it? Not really. The borough's animal shelter has started making more of a point to pick up cats this winter, since there have been a lot of problems with animals getting hit by vehicles, or animals in a fenced in yard (or tied out on their owner's property) getting attacked by roaming ones.

 

I don't like unrestrained dogs either. It can be dangerous for both pet and other people around.

 

Someone else's cat left me presents on my doorstep for a summer. I was not pleased. Stepping in a dead bird (dead vole, dead small something else...) first thing in the morning, and having to clean off the work boot before getting in the car isn't a party. I think it was also the same one that yowled and enjoyed keeping me up on many a work night. It also kept trying to sneak in the screen - I use one of those magic mesh screen things. I had to put up fencing as a cat baffle. I think it wanted to hunt my rabbits that free roam my house. If it ever did, that would be it for the cat.

 

I have a lot more respect for people who take care of their animal, and deal with it even if it is unpleasant when it is inside. I shouldn't have to listen to your cat yowling at night- the owner should.

[celesteon]

SOOO, back on topic, if it isn't too late...

 

@edwardelricfreak: my cousin and her housemate used to do the stray cat thing. They even got a big tom neutered, and then they found out he had an owner, but she was actually grateful.

 

There have been some valid points raised about older cats that are used to living outside and whether it would be humane to keep them inside. I agree now that I think about it, that it would be cruel, but laws preventing cats from roaming free still allow for cat enclosures So I'd say an older cat would could have an enclosure made for it so it can hunt bugs and small prey through the mesh, eat grass, and roll in the sunshine, and that way it could be happy and would also be safer in its old age.

Edited November 21, 2014 by celesteon

[Banyanpan]

My cats are all indoors. We let them out sometimes to sniff things, but always watch them so they aren't truly "outdoor cats." I believe there is nothing wrong with outdoor cats as long as the owner is responsible about it.

[Tetelestai]

I don't post much, but I had to comment on this thread.

 

I've had cats all my life, and all of them have been indoor. I have one cat now that likes to go out on a lead with me standing next to him. I would never own an outdoor cat, because I believe that they should be indoors. I know barn cats have a purpose and I respect that, but too many times in my life have I come across cats that are starved, pregnant, and abandoned. It breaks my heart to see that, because I can't adopt all of them.

 

A month ago, an orange tabby started stalking around my apartment. He is not neutered and his belly was extended with worms. No collar or other means of identification. I fed him two cans of cat food each time he showed up, and he'd leave. I was about to take him in to a place to get him neutered, but I haven't seen him sense. I'm not sure if he was homeless or just an outdoor cat, but he was neglected.

 

I've seen so many cats and dogs dead on the side of the road, because they either got out or were let out freely roam. No one should have a dog that is constantly outside, because a pet belongs in your home. Cats if let to their own means can become a nuisance for peoples' gardens, not to mention their vast reproductive properties if left unfixed.

 

If you do have outdoor cats, please take care of them. Get them identification and all their shots and let them roam inside a fenced yard. You wouldn't let your dog wander into your neighbors dog to potty or dig, so why would you let your cat?