Notice.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I'd like to stick my neck out here and say once again: I personally think its awesome you guys are allowed to post in your sigs that you accept ious. Most places.. if something is banned.. its banned. Theres no work arounds.. at least with that, you can still advertise what you are looking for. Ignoring the mod side.. im rather excited to be able to advertise im looking for cb slimy hatchys in my sig if i want to.

I'm assuming offering IOUs in sigs was already considered acceptable before this, as I'd seen it being done before.

 

Am I glad we can still offer them in sigs? Yes. But do I still think removing them from being directly offered in trades is stupid? Yes.

 

Add new text to teleport links. Add giant screaming warnings on trade threads. Add IOU rules into the "things required to be read before you can be a full forum member." There are many great suggestions here in which the only way for someone to still be confused about IOUs is if they BLATANTLY IGNORED THE RULES.

 

And yet these suggestions look like they're going to be ignored, and IOUs will have to take a very silly roundabout route to be accomplished, just like saying "PM me" instead of "I want this IOU" in the IRC. :/

 

Please do not punish us because some very careless people fail to read the rules and then whine about it.

Edited October 2, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[coltzen]

Well, metals aren't that huge of an issue, because you can just breed them and then trade them (or, alternately, tackle down someone who is offering them when THEY breed them).

 

However, you can kiss trading for nice Hollies goodbye. Want to trade a CB Metal for a 2nd gen Holly? Good luck catching it within the week-long period when they can breed! :'D

If you catch one during the year, you can always advertise in your sig.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

If you catch one during the year, you can always advertise in your sig.

Yes.

 

Which means instead of saying "I want an IOU of ____" in our posts, we'll say "look at my sig" in our posts, and have to cram our IOU wants in there.

 

Which means nothing changes.

 

Which leads back into "this is silly and why are you even bothering."*

 

*Yes mods, I know that in theory you're bothering because it'll hopefully reduce the amount of whiny PMs you get, but posting more defined warnings in trade links/threads would do this just as well with half the hassle, for you AND us.

[Thuban]

I'm assuming offering IOUs in sigs was already considered acceptable before this, as I'd seen it being done before.

 

Am I glad we can still offer them in sigs? Yes. But do I still think removing them from being directly offered in trades is stupid? Yes.

 

Add new text to teleport links. Add giant screaming warnings on trade threads. Add IOU rules into the "things required to be read before you can be a full forum member." There are many great suggestions here in which the only way for someone to still be confused about IOUs is if they BLATANTLY IGNORED THE RULES.

 

And yet these suggestions look like they're going to be ignored, and IOUs will have to take a very silly roundabout route to be accomplished, just like saying "PM me" instead of "I want this IOU" in the IRC. :/

Your suggestions arent being ignored. The reasoning you have been given is being ignored.

 

It has been made clear.. many many times now that IOU trading has never really been official. We really have never stepped in on them when people dont fufill them. People dont read rules, they do not keep up on the first post, or pay attention to the big honking warnings. Prime examples of this?

~Help section: theres a sticky with the most commonly asked questions.. people will ask questions rather than read through that thread. They will post questions that were already asked and answered on the first page of the section.

~Dragon requests.. i'll use my own thread as an example (and this is by no means meant as an attack againt the users who have submitted art to my thread, just to make sure this is clear). Its been made clear in the first post i do not want people spriting for my concept, and multiple times throughout the thread i do not want people spriting. I would prefer to do it myself, until the point where i give up and hand it over. Even after going back and editing in huge letter quote that i do not want people spriting anything.. guess what.. people are still doing it. I see it in other threads in that section all the time. People dont read the stickys, the dont read the rules part of threads.. they read what they need to read and go by whatver is being discussed in the last page or two.

~news threads: oh god news threads. Even when the posts say how long things are being released, what the time frames are.. and that yes.. non holiday releases ARE permanent.. users will still ask h=when events end, what tie time frames are and whether the releases are permanent. Its not a lack of intellegence.. sometimes its really new people who dont know.. sometimes its someone who had had a brain fart. Sometimes its someone who is just absolutely clueless.

 

 

Big huge warnings do no good. After the first time you see them... you tend to ignore them. I can not be the only person on this site who doesnt notice the block of text at the top of the cave.. or the views/uv/c on the /dragons page for the adults.. or any of the warnings that come up for any of the actions you can do. Ater awhile.. people just stop noticing those things and forget they exist. How many people went back today and did a one way trade to confirm that yes.. there is a message that states the other person isnt obligated to give you something in return? I know that message is there, yet i still went back and reconfirmed it /just to be sure/. The point it.. theres enough evidence to support that big warnings, sticky posts and pointing out the obvious DO NOT WORK. Im sorry you feel like this is "stupid" but try to think about it from the other side of the fence. Think about what the mods have to deal with on a day to day basis. How many times do the mods have to warn people for derailing topics, for being rude, for posting in the wrong section every single day?

 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Big huge warnings do no good. After the first time you see them... you tend to ignore them. I can not be the only person on this site who doesnt notice the block of text at the top of the cave.. or the views/uv/c on the /dragons page for the adults.. or any of the warnings that come up for any of the actions you can do. Ater awhile.. people just stop noticing those things and forget they exist. How many people went back today and did a one way trade to confirm that yes.. there is a message that states the other person isnt obligated to give you something in return? I know that message is there, yet i still went back and reconfirmed it /just to be sure/. The point it.. theres enough evidence to support that big warnings, sticky posts and pointing out the obvious DO NOT WORK. Im sorry you feel like this is "stupid" but try to think about it from the other side of the fence. Think about what the mods have to deal with on a day to day basis. How many times do the mods have to warn people for derailing topics, for being rude, for posting in the wrong section every single day?

Thu, if people don't read the rules, then they will just stupidly keep PMing mods about IOUs gone bad offsite/in PMs/from signature IOUs. The flood of stupidity will not stop. The solution isn't to move IOUs from posts to sigs. The solution is to put in those last giant shiny warnings as a way of showing you tried your damnedest, and then slap people with warns and a copy/paste "Mods can't regulate IOUs, please read the rules before PMing staff" message if they continue to be dumb.

 

At the end of the day you're catering to people who, as you said, IGNORE THE RULES. Why are you catering to them at the expense of the people who DO read the rules and know that IOUs are a risk no mod can help with?

 

I understand that it must be annoying to get PMs from people who didn't read the rules. But that's part of what being a mod is. You have to deal with the dumbos. But by doing this you're making things more annoying for us (the majority) for the sake of making things easier for the mods (the very small minority) when that 'making things easier' you're hoping for might not even really happen! As I said, people will keep finding ways to be dumb about IOUs no matter WHERE they find those IOUs in a post.

Edited October 2, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[rubyshoes]

IOU's in trading topics will no longer be allowed.

 

OP's please edit your topic rules to reflect this change. Mods will edit topic rules if necessary.

 

 

edit: Having IOUs as a "have" or a "want" is both included and neither is allowed.

 

No IOU topics.

The following applies to all IOU threads.

IOU's are not an option of the game, IOU's are agreements made between members. As we (DC) are not responsible for any IOU's made, allowing a topic gives members the impression we condone the practice, which we don't. Therefore, these topics will not be allowed.

Gifting topics aren't affected as those are gifts not IOUs (as long as it is a true gift and nothing is expected in return).

 

If you have IOUs as either a have or a want in your trades, please remove them.

 

 

edit2 : FAQ complied by Thuban (thank you) :

 

No, gifting threads will not be affected, as those are not really trades. They are gifts.

 

Yes, you can post you accept IOUs in your sig/profile

 

No, there will not be an iou trading thread allowed on this site. You are totally welcome to make a channel in the irc, or run something offsite in a forum of your own. You can engage in ious all you like by pm, chat (pms or user channels... no official areas) email.. whatever you want. Have fun. Not in the forum, not in the official chat channels.

 

No, you may not ask for holidays out of their breeding window. They can not possibly be bred outside of their breeding windows therefore it would be considered iou. (though, opening the door for asking for holidays like 2-3 days before events have started in the past might be an option and i plan to talk to the mods about that)

 

While we will not enforce iou trades that have gone badly, if you are being harrassed by a member either in pm, or in the chat, PLEASE make a report. It is not ok to harrass or bully people for not paying up on their end. It is not ok to set all your friends after someone to threaten them to pay up or else. While we will not force a trade to be completed, we WILL take harrassment issues that happen in PM here on the forum or in chat seriously. I do not tolerate bullying.

 

 

edit3: Change is being made to include no IOU posts to the long standing existing no IOU topics guidelines quoted below.

 

 

 

IOU posts also give the impression we condone the practice, which we don't.

 

 

Included above is a copy/paste of the first post. Please note this change is NOT being made due to mod being tired of getting PMs about scamming etc. but due to the following long standing rule regarding threads which will be now changed to included posts in the trading threads.

 

No IOU topics.

The following applies to all IOU threads.

IOU's are not an option of the game, IOU's are agreements made between members. As we (DC) are not responsible for any IOU's made, allowing a topic gives members the impression we condone the practice, which we don't. Therefore, these topics will not be allowed.

 

 

edited to add a few more FAQs:

 

1. From the day IOU's were ceased in irc a small addition was added to the one way gift teleport link page.

 

In order for other people to claim the dragons contained in this transfer, have them visit the below link. Anyone with this link will be able to claim your dragons with no further confirmation from you. Any user who claims these dragons is under no obligation to give you anything in return; this is a one-way transfer.

 

 

2. I am/was thinking along the lines of a contract - based trading thread:

 

Example:

Player A tries to get a 2nd gen Silver.

Player B wants to attain as many Caveblockers as possible.

 

They form a contract, where at the end of the month, Player B needs to have that silver, player A the hatchies. If one of them does not have what was in the contract, there will be no trade.

 

This would be considered an IOU. The chances of Player A having all of the hatchys needed AND player B being able to breed the silver needed at the time of the trade are rather low.

 

3. So, wait.. IOUs that are currently in play are still allowed, right?

 

Of course. Your existing IOUs are between you and the player you traded with. There is no reason not to hold up your end of the deal.

 

4. I have a CB Gold, I want a Holly iou (5 months away from xmas), and someone pms them, is that not allowed?

 

If you are doing it in pm, then there's no reason to worry. You may no longer post in OFFICIAL places looking for IOUs. What you do in PM is your business smile.gif

 

5. Or, what about the other way, someone offering their Holly egg (at xmas) for a CB gold IOU?

 

Again, if this happens in pm, or offsite, its not a problem.

 

6. I've got a clarification question. Lets say I'm trying to find an evengen mate for dragon X...attempts to trade or catch things to breed to make a mate (dragon y) is not going well. Would I be allowed to ask if anyone would be willing to breed me a dragon I need to get hypothetical Y?

 

 

Edit: Most of our lineage topics in the breeding section accept requests.

We also have an even gen gifting/trading thread where you can ask for a mate just do all IOUing in PMs.

 

7. So say like a person I know has a holly reserved for me a year or two after this if I don't manage to get one in the mean time and we did this through PMs that is still acceptable right?

 

As long as you aren't posting in threads asking for or offering IOUs.. you are fine.

 

8. Just need to know whether this change will affect existing contests? Kind of hard to offer prizes if we can't promise to breed 'em after the contest ends...

 

Contests for the most part are gifting threads with a twist. You have to work to earn the prize that someone has donated towards it. This is not an IOU, its a gift (or a reward).

 

9. Sorry if this has already been answered (I've been lurking around for a while but I'm still not sure,) but can we have a list of who owes us what and what we owe other people in our profile?

 

At this time, at least.. that isn't a problem.

 

10. It's two players that are doing it not the whole community. It's just two people's agreement not the site itself. I don't see how anyone could associate it with the whole site when it's an agreement between just two players.

 

And yet they do. Sorry but they do which is why the no IOU posts rule already exists and why this notice is being sent out that IOU posts be included as well. -Rubyshoes

 

Edit to add: Yes it is an agreement between to members. It has nothing to do with the forum. Which by forum rules this rule can be used:

 

No Spam

No one likes spam, it clutters the board, so don't contribute to the problem. Messages that do not contribute to the topic or forum are considered spam and the poster will receive a warning.

Edited October 8, 2012 by _Z_

[_Z_]

~Removed~

We will consider, not allowing IOU's in Signatures. You brought up some good points for not allowing them.

 

We will update here, when we have more info.

Edited October 3, 2012 by _Z_

[_Z_]

We will allow IOU's in signatures, please attempt to keep them a reasonable size and content.